Carlos Dunlap

[HoosierCat]

The title of this thread "Carlos Dunlap," is my second choice.

My first choice was "Marvin Lewis is a %^$#* &*()$# &@@#$%!"

Just for the record, Dunlap with 7 sacks is 1 sack behind Suh (No. 2 overall pick) among rooks for sacks and leads all rookie DEs (in fewer games) for sacks by 2.5 sacks.

But..uh, according to Marvin, he couldn't practice well enough to play.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The title of this thread "Carlos Dunlap," is my second choice.

My first choice was "Marvin Lewis is a %^$#* &*()$# &@@#$%!"

Just for the record, Dunlap with 7 sacks is 1 sack behind Suh (No. 2 overall pick) among rooks for sacks and leads all rookie DEs (in fewer games) for sacks by 2.5 sacks.

But..uh, according to Marvin, he couldn't practice well enough to play.

Personally Dave, I think first title fits best.

[COB]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

[Kazkal]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

.....NOOOOooooooo we been making to many guys add pounds.....

[HoosierCat]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

.....NOOOOooooooo we been making to many guys add pounds.....

+ 1,000 have we not had enough of DE/DT swing guys? Let the man kill the QB!!!!

[Kazkal]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

.....NOOOOooooooo we been making to many guys add pounds.....

+ 1,000 have we not had enough of DE/DT swing guys? Let the man kill the QB!!!!

True that...I dunno about other people but I love what we've seen in DUnlap & Geno

[BengalPappaw]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

Yeah -- but with the Mike Brown philosophy, Dunlap will be gone by the time he's 25, because he'll be too expensive to resign.

Enjoy him while we can.

[BengalPappaw]

The title of this thread "Carlos Dunlap," is my second choice.

My first choice was "Marvin Lewis is a %^$#* &*()$# &@@#$%!"

Just for the record, Dunlap with 7 sacks is 1 sack behind Suh (No. 2 overall pick) among rooks for sacks and leads all rookie DEs (in fewer games) for sacks by 2.5 sacks.

But..uh, according to Marvin, he couldn't practice well enough to play.

I agree that Marvin and the coaches seem to take a long time to try some of these players on the field. I've been asking for Carlos Dunlap all season.

Also, I'd still like to see Maualuga at MLB this season. Wouldn't this be a good time to get a feel for what he can do at MLB?

[jonf45uk]

Dunlap really has been the highlight of the season. Thats not saying much, i know, but imo he really has been superb.

Gresham and Shipley have both been good also, but that was more expected.

Shame the veterans couldn't follow their example!

[walzav29]

Don't forget Geno. Overall it's a very good rookie class.

[Sea Ray]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

.....NOOOOooooooo we been making to many guys add pounds.....

+ 1,000 have we not had enough of DE/DT swing guys? Let the man kill the QB!!!!

True that...I dunno about other people but I love what we've seen in DUnlap & Geno

Let's face it. Last years draft is looking to be a stellar one by Bengal standards. Dunlap, Gresham, Atkins and Shipley look like solid NFL players. How often do we come out of a draft with 4 players of that quality?

[derekshank]

This thread is spot on. Dunlap was my favorite draft pick back in April... and it wasn't close. I was giddy.

Watching him fail to play week after week caused me to believe that I had misjudged him. Maybe he wasn't the player I believed he could be.

Now, I see him playing the way I thought he could back in April... and it just makes me mad.

F**k the Bengal coaches.

[HairOnFire]

Two or three quick points.

Before opening this thread I read Hoosier's Dunlap "article" on CincyJungle and immediately concluded it was the best thing he had written in years. Then I laughed aloud after realizing how all he had done was lift one of my rants.

Hey, I'm not criticizing. In fact, I approve whole-heartedly.

Which brings me to my second and larger point. That being, why shouldn't the Bengals victory over the Browns, and the manner it was achieved, be looked upon as proof of nearly everything I and many others, including Cedric Benson, have been saying for months? And if it's ample proof, and I think it is, then isn't it also ample proof that the accountability for this seasons failure does indeed fall at the feet of those I've blamed?

Nutshelled, of course Marvin Lewis blew this one, and countless others.....most of them freshly exposed in the wake of the win over Cleveland.

Last point. None of the above is written for "I told ya so" purposes. I simply don't need that sweet sticky substance, nor do I expect to receive it from my fellow sweet and sticky posters. But yeah, as we go forward it might be nice if more of us can finally agree on the reasons why the bottom fell out of our bucket this year.

[COB]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that Dunlap's play could be because of the Bengals coaches, not in spite of it?

What evidence do we have that, had be immediately been inserted into the lineup, he wouldn't have gotten his ass beat while simultaneously developing a grotesque NFL diva ego?

Any evidence at all that Dunlap's game didn't develop over the first 7 or 8 weeks of the season while he worked in practiced and rode the pine?

I thought Geno Atkins looked better in preseason and warranted more early playing time. Why he didn't get it, I don't know.

[Sea Ray]

Two or three quick points.

Before opening this thread I read Hoosier's Dunlap "article" on CincyJungle and immediately concluded it was the best thing he had written in years. Then I laughed aloud after realizing how all he had done was lift one of my rants.

Hey, I'm not criticizing. In fact, I approve whole-heartedly.

Which brings me to my second and larger point. That being, why shouldn't the Bengals victory over the Browns, and the manner it was achieved, be looked upon as proof of nearly everything I and many others, including Cedric Benson, have been saying for months? And if it's ample proof, and I think it is, then isn't it also ample proof that the accountability for this seasons failure does indeed fall at the feet of those I've blamed?

Nutshelled, of course Marvin Lewis blew this one, and countless others.....most of them freshly exposed in the wake of the win over Cleveland.

Last point. None of the above is written for "I told ya so" purposes. I simply don't need that sweet sticky substance, nor do I expect to receive it from my fellow sweet and sticky posters. But yeah, as we go forward it might be nice if more of us can finally agree on the reasons why the bottom fell out of our bucket this year.

No question yesterday's win supports what you've been saying all year, but it was a squeaker against a weak team. Don't you think they to do a little something more to beat the over .500 teams?

One thing we're in agreement:

However Bratkowski chose to assemble the troops, he had enough manpower to be more successful than they were. In short, they underachieved. He had a remarkably healthy year on the offensive side of the ball and they still struggled to score two TDs or more a game.

[HairOnFire]

This thread is spot on. Dunlap was my favorite draft pick back in April... and it wasn't close. I was giddy.

Watching him fail to play week after week caused me to believe that I had misjudged him. Maybe he wasn't the player I believed he could be.

Remember the bit from the mic'd up Jet game where Marvin blasts Dunlap for being a selfish player just because Dunlap was angry about letting the QB, and a sack opportunity, slip out of his grasp? Well, I said it then and I'll repeat it now. I was proud of Dunlap for being critical of his own play, and I felt Marvin exposed himself as a clueless a**h*** for calling Dunlap selfish in that circumstance. In fact, I consider that sequence to be a perfect example of Marvin's misquided handling of the most gifted player in his front seven.

Now, I see him playing the way I thought he could back in April... and it just makes me mad.

It makes me want to hold people accountable for their mistakes....with Lewis and Bratkowski being the most obvious choices. But my anger doesn't end there because IMHO Zimmer was equally responsible for the decision to humble Dunlap before giving him the playing time he so clearly deserves.

[HoosierCat]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that Dunlap's play could be because of the Bengals coaches, not in spite of it?

It's certainly possible, but I very much doubt it for two reasons. One is the team's poor history of developing top picks. Regression, not progression, is the norm. The second is that Dunlap was never a project. Heck, at one point early this year he was being talked about as a possible top 10-15 pick. I find it hard to believe he had to be coached up, and his performance since injury forced them to put him in the lineup supports that, at least IMHO.

[derekshank]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that Dunlap's play could be because of the Bengals coaches, not in spite of it?

Well, let's see... this coaching staff was responsible for telling Geathers to add 40lbs so he could be a run stopping DE after his double digit sack season.

This coaching staff was responsible for trying to make MJ a LB when he is clearly a capable pass-rushing DE.

This coaching staff said after drafting Dunlap that they saw him as a DT not a DE. They also publicly lamented the fact that Dunlap had to play, and claimed that had it not been for injuries he would not have been playing these last several games.

So, no. That thought had never occurred to me. I suppose you could be right... but as of now I'm inclined to believe that Atkins, Dunlap, and MJ are all playing well on this D-Line at their natural positions in spite of the coaches attempts to "change" them.

[HairOnFire]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that Dunlap's play could be because of the Bengals coaches, not in spite of it?

What evidence do we have that, had be immediately been inserted into the lineup, he wouldn't have gotten his ass beat while simultaneously developing a grotesque NFL diva ego?

Any evidence at all that Dunlap's game didn't develop over the first 7 or 8 weeks of the season while he worked in practiced and rode the pine?

I thought Geno Atkins looked better in preseason and warranted more early playing time. Why he didn't get it, I don't know.

Seems to me the answer to your question is right at your fingertips yet you refuse to grasp it fully. Because if you ask me the two most consistently impressive defensive players in preseason were Atkins and Dunlap, yet neither was awarded with playing time until it was far too late. Furthermore, when playing time was given Dunlap responded immediately, far better than Atkins or the more experienced Michael Johnson have managed. Finally, unlike the DT position the cupboard at DE was laid bare almost from the start yet Dunlap remained shelved.

[Kazkal]

And he's only 21 years old. He could put some more weight on, and maintian his quickness.

Yeah -- but with the Mike Brown philosophy, Dunlap will be gone by the time he's 25, because he'll be too expensive to resign.

Enjoy him while we can.

How so? he kept Geathers and has been willing to pay other players he drafted...problem is will dunlap wanna resign in 3 years?

[HairOnFire]

One last point in regards to coaching.

Several months ago I mentioned the thing the Bengals defense lacked most was a 250 lb. spinning ball of butcher knives at DE, with heavy emphasis on the spinning part. In short, a dynamic pass rusher who was not only capable of more than bull or mush rushing, but just as important...would be allowed to do so by his coaches.

In the weeks that have followed we've not only seen dramatically increased playing time for Dunlap and MJ, but a shift towards more dynamic and less conservative pass rushing schemes. Both Dunlap and Johnson have been turned loose, and can be seen flashing spin moves that threaten the interior pocket. The results are obvious. Best, Dunlap shows outstanding instincts in regards to knowing when to abandon outside containment. Unfortunately, Johnson remains a work in progress and has committed some horrific errors, most notably on the reverse run by the Jets. But regardless, I should admit it hasn't simply been a case of playing younger players. Rather, it's a combo of younger better player and Zimmer finally putting an end to the mush rushing that has defined this teams DE play since Lewis arrived.

[Kazkal]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that Dunlap's play could be because of the Bengals coaches, not in spite of it?

The same Coaches who Had Geathers gain 30-40 lbs after he had a 10 Sack season? I like most of our coaches on Defensive side of the ball but Marvin / Hayes have always failed with there "elephant End / lack of pass rushing"

SO I say Ferk their coaching.

Several months ago I mentioned the thing the Bengals defense lacked most was a 250 lb. spinning ball of butcher knives at DE, with heavy emphasis on the spinning part. In short, a dynamic pass rusher who was not only capable of more than bull or mush rushing, but just as important...would be allowed to do so by his coaches.

Agreed that's why even last year after the Greenbay game I still felt our passrush was lacking...Fanene,Odom,Geathers or Rucker none of them are Passrushing ends Simply the Marvin Lewis elephant ends...Thats why Was Glad to see Dunlap & Geno on top of the MJ selection the previous even though Zimmer needs to decide what he wants to do with MJ is he going to be a Defensive End or a Hybrid Backer?

[HairOnFire]

Agreed that's why even last year after the Greenbay game I still felt our passrush was lacking...Fanene,Odom,Geathers or Rucker none of them are Passrushing ends Simply the Marvin Lewis elephant ends...Thats why Was Glad to see Dunlap & Geno on top of MJ selection last year though I think Zimmer needs decide what they wanna do with MJ is he going to be a Defensive End or a Hybrid Backer?

Which is exactly what made the selection of Dunlap so intruiging since he's a 280-290 lb guy capable of being much more than an elephant DE.

As for the habit of players regressing, lets keep in mind how it was Bengal coaches who gradually broke Justin Smith of his rookie habit of spinning, and as a result he never again approached his rookie sack totals....prompting fans to label him as a one-trick pony. In reality, Smith excelled at the trick most valued by his coaches. So it's still possible for Bengal coaches to ruin Dunlap in the exact same fashion should they choose to. Happily, on at least this one point they seem to have learned their lesson and are now allowing Dunlap and Johnson the freedom to rush the passer. That is shouldn't have taken this long is a given and IMHO unforgivable.

[volcom69]

I really enjoy watching this young d-line play its awsome to see the progress. I was so tired of seeing these guys try to mull the tackles back, sometimes it dosnt work, and it showed this year its not working. Anybody else notice in the first half the whole d-line was getting bunched up, now that they actully have some outside DE you dont see that bunching up. Now if they can find one more pass rusher, i will be really happy!

[HoosierCat]

Congrats to Carlos! He finishes with 9.5 sacks, a new Bengals rookie record. He also finishes second among rookies, 0.5 sacks behind Suh.