The days of Carson Palmer are over.

[HoosierCat]

Wrong. Your latest pet theory

has nothing to do with anything you're talking about. It's just that coaches aren't playing young guys because they're afraid they'll make them look worse. That's all. But, uh, carry on...

Since when does winning look worse than losing?

Well, if you have a crystal ball that foretells the future, I'm sure they would love to borrow it. But based on what they've done with personnel so far this year, it's pretty clear to me that they believed Chad and TO gave them a better chance to win. They were simply taking what they saw as the safer option until injuries forced their hand. If they now look like fools, so much the better.

[HairOnFire]

Well, if you have a crystal ball that foretells the future, I'm sure they would love to borrow it.

Oh, but I do. Or rather, they do. Because the only crystal ball the new coaching staff will need is the Bengals game tape from the 2009 season.

But based on what they've done with personnel so far this year, it's pretty clear to me that they believed Chad and TO gave them a better chance to win.

And there's the most important lesson learned. How believing in part-time football players will ruin your season even before it begins and will satisfy only the inner fantasy geek of a select few.

They were simply taking what they saw as the safer option until injuries forced their hand.

I was immediately reminded of the old saying about how you can't rape the willing no matter how hard you try.

As for the injury excuse, you continue to toss it about even after repeatedly withdrawing it when challenged. So can I presume you'll deny doing so again if I bother poking you with a pointed stick?

[HoosierCat]

As for the injury excuse,

What "injury excuse"? The only role injuries have played in the case of guys like Simpson and Dunlap is to expose the coaching staff's poor judgment.

[HairOnFire]

What "injury excuse"?

Yours, from yesterday. As opposed to yours, from last week. Not to mention yours, from earlier in the season.

The only role injuries have played in the case of guys like Simpson and Dunlap is to expose the coaching staff's poor judgment.

But as you admitted earlier, injuries weren't responsible for the Bengals collapse. Their season was self-trashed long before the bodies hit the floor. Furthermore, players like Dunlap don't factor into your latest injury excuse because you were specifically talking about Chad and Owens. Of course Simpson does factor in, as do Caldwell and Cosby. But you've yet to write anything about how those players helped produce the Bengals first victory in months. In fact, you've claimed those players couldn't have contributed earlier due to coaching fears that playing younger players would make the team look worse. In reality, nothing looks worse than losing and a reliance on the Diva Duo never produced a single win all season, thereby prompting many Bengal fans to call for the heads of Lewis and Bratkowski. All of which makes a mockery of your silly claim that fans only blame the coaching staff in examples involving young players and unfairly blame older players like Owens and Chad, who you do nothing but offer excuses and apologies for.

Whew.

Anyways, if I've managed to accurately follow the many intertwining threads of your twisted logic we still end up in the same place...with you not only refusing to hold the coaching staff responsible in regards to Ocho and Owens, but actually mocking those who do. And I believe you continue to do these things precisely because the core of all of your ranting this year is built upon a blind defense of Bratkowski's methods and Marvin's acquiescence. As a result you repeatedly offer and withdraw injury excuses, stat based defenses of Bratkowskis methods, roster mismanagement, churn and burn draft strategies, and most importantly....a steadfast refusal to acknowledge how Smashball fits what this team is capable of far better than a pussified passing game built around selfish clowns and mercenary players.

Double whew.

In closing, your refusal to embrace the obvious things that I've talked about all season, and Cedric Benson and rest of the non-diva faction of the Bengals just confirmed, puts you at risk of becoming the very last guy in the room to grasp what happened this season. And yet there's no shame in that. Rather, true shame is reserved for those who never get it no matter how much time they're given. And there's the rub, because time is running out, mercifully, and so are your chances.

[HoosierCat]

What "injury excuse"?

Yours, from yesterday.

Well, you're welcome to point it out because I'm still not seeing it.

All of which makes a mockery of your silly claim that fans only blame the coaching staff in examples involving young players and unfairly blame older players like Owens and Chad, who you do nothing but offer excuses and apologies for.

That would be a silly claim, but it isn't one I made. I never said anything about a blanket principle involving older and younger players, only that coaching could reasonably expect that any failure specifically on TO and Chad's part would be blamed on them, not the staff. Given that we currently have a thread dedicating to blaming both of them for everything, that seems hard to argue with to me.

Anyways, if I've managed to accurately follow the many intertwining threads of your twisted logic

Well, there's certainly some twisting involved here, but I'm not doing it. But like I said, carry on...

[HairOnFire]

I never said anything about a blanket principle involving older and younger players, only that coaching could reasonably expect that any failure specifically on TO and Chad's part would be blamed on them, not the staff.

Actually, you went further than that by mocking those who blamed TO and Chad, both of whom are older players, and went on to claim that coaches are only blamed by most fans when younger players are involved. So yeah, a blanket principle wrapped in excuses and apologies.

Well, there's certainly some twisting involved here, but I'm not doing it. But like I said, carry on...

You remain a constant source of disappointment to me, and others.

But by all means do carry on, if you must.

[HoosierCat]

Actually, you went further than that by mocking those who blamed TO and Chad, both of whom are older players,

Both of whom are black, too. And male. And put their pants on one leg at a time. Nope, just talking about Chad and TO, not all older players (or whatever else you want to insert). Nice try.

and went on to claim that coaches are only blamed by most fans when younger players are involved.

Nope, just made a specific claim about Simpson.

[HairOnFire]

Both of whom are black, too. And male. And put their pants on one leg at a time.

Seems to me the only way you'd know how they put their pants on was if you were there when they were pantless.

Nice try.

There is no try. Only do. And I must admit I do enjoy watching as you offer and then retract, deny and then repeat, spin and weeble wobble, but never actually fall down.

Nope, just made a specific claim about Simpson.

And Chad. And Owens. And Dunlap.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Jesus. Now I'm watching the Cowboys Kitna pull a Palmer against Arizona in the school of how to lose a game. Pick sixes galore and Arizona wins!

[membengal]

Feels kinda less over today.

Weird (and not so weird) how much better Palmer looked without having to worry about getting balls to divas.

I had only half a foot on the draft a qb train, but I am reconsidering even having had that much of a foot on that train. Same thing for the draft Green train.

What does the top 5 hold for a rushing d-lineman? Or an offensive lineman?

Hmmm.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Feels kinda less over today.

I won't argue for today.

[Kazkal]

Happy with what I saw in palmer but : p still wouldn't mind change simply to have plan B available.

[volcom69]

Its amazing how awsome Palmer looked without worring about what diva wants the ball. Palmer looked comfortable in the pocket today, and he actully saw the field! So something was different only thing i saw was the fact that the fools were not on the field. Oh and the fact that they are actully trying to run the ball, and sticking to it. Great job today!

[Stripes]

Palmer's weakness is in decision-making, especially under duress. I don't think anything has changed -- and that is to say he's a good QB who's capable of throwing some games away.

[HoosierCat]

Its amazing how awsome Palmer looked without worring about what diva wants the ball. Palmer looked comfortable in the pocket today, and he actully saw the field! So something was different only thing i saw was the fact that the fools were not on the field. Oh and the fact that they are actully trying to run the ball, and sticking to it. Great job today!

Palmer did fine, but IMHO he did fine because the defense put the offense in good spots, got them a lead and held it. Not counting a garbage time TD the D coughed up 13 points. We have not gotten that kind of performance out of the D all year. Not to downplay some great play by the O, but in my book this win goes down to the D.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Palmer finished today with a career-best passer rating of 157.2, just shy of a perfect 158.3.

And here I stand with my hat in my hand.

Kudos Carson.

[walzav29]

There is something to be said for the Bengals being 2-0 without T.O. and he hasn't thrown an INT in the last 2 games. I think we'd all agree that he got put in spots where he HAD to throw the ball to T.O. and Chad. Was it the coordinator? The head coach? Would Palmer just give it to nagging? He looks so much better without those 2, it's crazy. Next week will be interesting. According to Charley Casserly, Palmer is coming back next year. So let's get the youngest some time.

[volcom69]

I can only hope that Chad calls it quits for the year, and just lets the youngs guys play next week!

Another thing that amazed me was how Carson hasnt worked with those WR much, but yet they seemed to be on the same page on almost every play......hmmmmm interesting?????

[HoosierCat]

There is something to be said for the Bengals being 2-0 without T.O. and he hasn't thrown an INT in the last 2 games. I think we'd all agree that he got put in spots where he HAD to throw the ball to T.O. and Chad. Was it the coordinator? The head coach? Would Palmer just give it to nagging? He looks so much better without those 2, it's crazy. Next week will be interesting. According to Charley Casserly, Palmer is coming back next year. So let's get the youngest some time.

FWIW I think it comes down to one guy knowing where the receiver should be versus a QB + TO + Ocho all trying to figure out where they should be in coverage X and if corner Y does Z and the safeties do AA and the LBs give you look BB, etc. In short, too much experience can be as bad as no experience.

Guys like Simpson and Gresham are just concerned with getting to spot X and if they get to spot X the ball will be there. Carson can trust that. When you talk about simplifiying the offense, this is what that really means.

[Sea Ray]

I can only hope that Chad calls it quits for the year, and just lets the youngs guys play next week!

Another thing that amazed me was how Carson hasnt worked with those WR much, but yet they seemed to be on the same page on almost every play......hmmmmm interesting?????

Why hasn't Simpson played until now?

Add that to a long list of why a lot of these coaches deserve to get fired. Last year at this time we were really hurting at the WR position. Chris Henry was gone, Coles was sucking, Caldwell was fumbling so they brought in guys like Purify. Why didn't they give Simpson a chance? He could have stretched the field and replaced Chris Henry. They had nothing to lose by giving him a chance. The passing game was horrible at this point last year

[volcom69]

I can only hope that Chad calls it quits for the year, and just lets the youngs guys play next week!

Another thing that amazed me was how Carson hasnt worked with those WR much, but yet they seemed to be on the same page on almost every play......hmmmmm interesting?????

Why hasn't Simpson played until now?

Add that to a long list of why a lot of these coaches deserve to get fired. Last year at this time we were really hurting at the WR position. Chris Henry was gone, Coles was sucking, Caldwell was fumbling so they brought in guys like Purify. Why didn't they give Simpson a chance? He could have stretched the field and replaced Chris Henry. They had nothing to lose by giving him a chance. The passing game was horrible at this point last year

So true! These coaches after today should feel like complete idiots, and not only about Simpson, but about other youngs guys that sit on the bench, and are not givin a chance. They watch these guys in the preseason, and at practice, your telling me that Simpson or Caldwell hasnt shined!!!!! Thats complete bulls**t, there problem is they are affraid of change!!!! Sometimes change is a good thing, and i think it shows. Did you see Palmer he was out there having fun, laughing on the sidelines with his o-line, and the young recievers. Its amazing what a team can look like when everyone is giving 110%, and these young WR actully playing with heart!!! Its such a relief to have no DRAMA for this game, and they can say it was a team victory!

[HairOnFire]

FWIW I think it comes down to one guy knowing where the receiver should be versus a QB + TO + Ocho all trying to figure out where they should be in coverage X and if corner Y does Z and the safeties do AA and the LBs give you look BB, etc. In short, too much experience can be as bad as no experience.

Guys like Simpson and Gresham are just concerned with getting to spot X and if they get to spot X the ball will be there. Carson can trust that. When you talk about simplifiying the offense, this is what that really means.

Agreed, but all you're doing now is offering a prettier easy to swallow version of what Steve Tasker said during todays game about young players only doing what they're coached to do while veteran wideouts "take liberties" with the offense. Of course in regards to the latter Tasker didn't bother naming names, but he didn't have to.

For those of you who blast away at Palmer's personality as if it were a fatal flaw, it isn't. Rather, I think it's been proven conclusively that Palmer's personality can be a weakness or a strength depending upon the players he's surrounded by. But his demeanor doesn't have to be a fatal weakness. Instead, Palmer needs to be put in a position where all he's doing is running the offense and throwing to spots, not personalities. By now it should be clear to everyone that when Palmer throws to personalities stronger than his own he can be too accommodating, too quick to defer, and too easily misled by teammates and coaches he trusts, but shouldn't.

IMHO far too much has been made in regards to getting Palmer all of the weapons he needs, and not nearly enough thought has been given to making sure he isn't ruined by surrounding him with things no team can succeed with. And of course when I say that I too don't need to bother naming names.

[jjakq27]

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-air-and-ground

Palmer is up for the FedEx Player of the Week this week.

[jjakq27]

TJ weighs in on Palmer and the Bengals....

/>http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/12/29/housh-compares-flacco-palmer/

Despite the Bengals' addition of Terrell Owens and drafting of other passing targets, Palmer's got the fourth-most interceptions in the NFL (18) and a quarterback rating of 82.7, his lowest in a full-season since his rookie year.

"I'm very surprised," Houshmandzadeh said. "You start to press, try to do too much. You force it to this guy because you want him to feel comfortable. I'm shocked they're not winning. They've got a good team."

[HairOnFire]

FWIW I'd be remiss if I didn't mention how much I like this threads newly added subtitle.

Makes me laugh everytime I read it.

In fact, I hereby award this winking thumb thing to whomever was responsible.