THE CHANGES THREAD...Marvin to return

[Sea Ray]

I wouldn't mind Harbaugh if he brings Andrew Luck with him

[ArmyBengal]

My point exactly in college coaching options. The Harbaugh thing is the one that sticks out most.

Grab Luck in the process and it's a smart move.

Truth be told, I expect little to no change in coaching and will be surprised if and when it happens.

[Spor_tees]

First off, there will be no Jim Harbough. He is a Michigan Alum and Mike Brown is a die hard Buckeye lover.

That being said, if there was a guy that would come form the college ranks to the pro's with some fire and desire to win, I would say go with Chris Peterson from Boise St. The guy is innovative, has some balls, and can handle success.

[jjakq27]

We need a major shake up someone who can talk Mikey Brown in to overhauling Medical/training Staff....Scouting....Coaches & players.....though no such person exists.

His name was Marvin Lewis....in 2003.

[HoosierCat]

Lewis: I see future in Cincinnati.

“I see a future here,” said Lewis when asked about his expiring contract and 2-8 record. “I haven’t got done what I came here to do. And I failed ‘em. But we’re still doing it and we’re going to keep doing it and keep working. This has not been the season we all wanted. But it is where we are right now. My guys coach very hard and that’s not going to change.”

Bettis: Lewis not on hot seat.

Lewis' Bengals blew a 17-point halftime lead and were outscored 35-0 by the lowly Bills in the second half of Sunday's loss. They're 2-8 with seven straight losses and in last place in the AFC North. I don't see any change happening in Cincinnati for one reason: Marvin Lewis is the best coach the Bengals can afford. That franchise is thrifty and won't want to hire a big-name coach that can come in and make quick, positive changes. They're also likely to stand pat because they don't have the expectations of winning like the Cowboys or Vikings. Lewis is not on the hot seat.

Heh.

[jjakq27]

Lewis: I see future in Cincinnati.

"I see a future here," said Lewis when asked about his expiring contract and 2-8 record. "I haven't got done what I came here to do. And I failed 'em. But we're still doing it and we're going to keep doing it and keep working. This has not been the season we all wanted. But it is where we are right now. My guys coach very hard and that's not going to change."

It's so funny to hear those comments and then listen to everyone that says he's going to walk away after the season. It almost sounds like he's campaigning for the job.

[Kazkal]

My point exactly in college coaching options. The Harbaugh thing is the one that sticks out most.

Grab Luck in the process and it's a smart move.

Truth be told, I expect little to no change in coaching and will be surprised if and when it happens.

I feel the little to no coaching changes,I expect both Brat,Alexander & Co to be given until the reminder of their contracts before being replaced which more then likely they won't be and get extensions...

But I still have HOPE Brat,Alexander,Sheppard & Others will be gone next year...Then again I had hope we were going to have a winning season this year.

[volcom69]

Bengals are such a joke! Every coach will stay the same, and once every couple years they will squeeze into the playoffs only to lose in the first round. Then the next year we will all get our hopes hope, and we will be a 2-14 team......again. This will be the Bengals fans future....what a joke.

Nobody is held accountable for sucking so bad! Nobody is ever benched for not giving full effort. No coaches are ever fired, because there players are not playing like there supposed to, oh wait only the defense cord. So the way i look at it, players and coaches seem to get away with anything they want to do.

[HoosierCat]

It's so funny to hear those comments and then listen to everyone that says he's going to walk away after the season. It almost sounds like he's campaigning for the job.

I wouldn't be surprised. After all, there are only 32 NFL coaching jobs in the world, and it's a rarity when one quits or even walks away quietly. Basically you are either canned or you retire. I remember how stunned I was when Coslet bailed -- that simply never (or almost never) happens.

Moreover, there's plenty of evidence that Mikey and Marvin are perfectly happy with each other. Lewis has said again and again how good his relationship with Mike is. He was even parroting the Family Line earlier this year, complaining about Tampa "overpaying" for Briscoe.

I still think the odds are against Marvin's return. Without some big changes you have to think that interest in buying tickets to the game will crater even further in 2011. So Mikey may decide he has to sacrifice Lewis to the Almighty $. But Brown is also a stubborn old cuss and he may just as easily decide to double down, blame injuries and too many new players on offense, and stick with Lewis.

The complicating factor, as already noted, is the lack of a CBA & potential for a lockout/strike/whatever. I have a hard time seeing any college coach leave his job for an NFL job when the season might not happen and he might not get paid. And certainly Mikey isn't going to guarantee any coaching salaries. Ditto for any "name" coach who is currently a talking head somewhere. So that leaves either 1) unemployed ex-HCs like Chilly or Phillips, 2) someone currently under contract in Cincy (meaning Brat, Zim or Alexander, IMHO), or 3) Lewis.

2 and 3, I would argue, are really pretty much the same thing.

[membengal]

At least Lewis recognizes that he failed. That's something. At least now I know he's breathing.

[HairOnFire]

At least Lewis recognizes that he failed. That's something. At least now I know he's breathing.

Breathing, but apparently braindead.

The officials correctly bailed Lewis out by putting a second back on the clock just before the 1st half ended...allowing the Bengals to kick a FG, but the decision to attempt a run in that situation is unforgivable. Worse, who runs in that situation using a heavy formation that allows the defense to ignore the pass?

And FWIW....Zimmer has done absolutely nothing this season to deserve being considered as a head coach.

[TJJackson]

"I want this thing" - Marvin Lewis

The spin has begun

In order to retain his appeal to other NFL Owners and GMs as a candidate to fill coaching positions, he has to at least appear fully dedicated to winning every game and wanting to fix the problems and (ultimately) to return to finish the job

Thats the public spin I spoke of earlier. So it has begun already.

Mark my words - as I said before - there will be no real progress in contract talks and Marvin will not be returning here. Any offer the Browns field will not be accepted, for whatever vague reasons he comes up with at the time.

There exists another possibility - a slim one - that Son-of-a-Genius will fail to offer him a new contract. But of course, in that scenario the end result is the same - bye bye Marvin

[HairOnFire]

The spin has begun

The spin has been going on for weeks now and it takes many forms. For example, the popular rant being heard toay is how injuries have crippled the Bengals....conveniently ignoring how the season was lost long before the bodies started hitting the floor.

[TJJackson]

The spin has begun

The spin has been going on for weeks now and it takes many forms. For example, the popular rant being heard today is how injuries have crippled the Bengals....conveniently ignoring how the season was lost long before the bodies started hitting the floor.

I was specifically referring to the spin on Marvin's 'return' next year, not the spin for why the season has gone so far south

[HairOnFire]

The spin has begun

The spin has been going on for weeks now and it takes many forms. For example, the popular rant being heard today is how injuries have crippled the Bengals....conveniently ignoring how the season was lost long before the bodies started hitting the floor.

I was specifically referring to the spin on Marvin's 'return' next year, not the spin for why the season has gone so far south

Ultimately all spin campaigns are linked. For example, the rash of recent injuries allow those who want to make excuses for what's happened to better do so. Personally, I think a very solid case could have been made for firing Marvin even when the teams won/loss record was still a then respectable looking .500. That things have gone further south since then hardly matters to me.

And another example of spinning is currently playing out as fans take sides in regards to Chad and Bratkowski. Brat backers use pages of crap stats to imply the new offense is actually working, while remaining Chad backers point to the ridiculous strategy of using Chad as a decoy to deflect blame being directed at Chad. Both arguments are completely s**tbrained of course, but in any spin campaign credible answers aren't the ultimate goal. Rather, both sides use available excuses to make the case for continuation. Advocates argue in favor of giving the damned another chance rather than holding them accountable.

And for still another example, almost all Bengal fans are currently engaged in a ridiculous spin campaign regarding Mike Zimmer simply because he looks like the most probable choice for head coach should Marvin walk at seasons end. In reality, Zimmer's coaching failure mirrors those of Lewis and Bratkowski, and IMHO there's no justification whatsoever for any plan that results in Zimmer being promoted at seasons end. In fact, the whole idea is absurd. But for those who feel otherwise the recent flood of injuries, coupled with the odds that Marvin walks away at seasons end, provides cover for Zimmer's own failures.

[ArmyBengal]

Sounds like what we were talking about a few weeks ago when some of thought the season was over and Hair made the comment about everyone eventually getting to the point they didn't want to admit to back then. Welcome to the flatline...

[HoosierCat]

Add Prisco to the list of those who think Marvin will be back.

Now comes the tough part, trying to figure out what to do going forward. It starts with Lewis. He is in the final year of his contract. He gambled that his team would be good. He crapped out.

That's not to say he doesn't deserve to stay. The word you hear is that Lewis wouldn't have minded leaving the Bengals, but does he get a job with this season on his resume?

I do think he's a good coach. What I think happens is he re-ups with the Bengals. Some people say the problem in Cincinnati is that president Mike Brown also serves as the personnel man. That, I hear, rubs Lewis the wrong way.

Lewis might have had more juice to get help in terms of personnel men if he won this season. But that juice is gone now. So it's either stay with the way things are or take a chance on landing a contract with a team that probably won't win five games.

[TJJackson]

Well, I guess I am instead focused (in this case) specifically on the spin Marvin is putting on his supposed desire to return here for the alleged 2011 season - a season which seems less and less likely to be actually played as each day passes by.

[membengal]

At least Lewis recognizes that he failed. That's something. At least now I know he's breathing.

Breathing, but apparently braindead.

The officials correctly bailed Lewis out by putting a second back on the clock just before the 1st half ended...allowing the Bengals to kick a FG, but the decision to attempt a run in that situation is unforgivable. Worse, who runs in that situation using a heavy formation that allows the defense to ignore the pass?

And FWIW....Zimmer has done absolutely nothing this season to deserve being considered as a head coach.

To be clear, I wasn't lauding his breathing. Just kinda surprised to find him breathing. He's been braindead in approach for months now.

[HairOnFire]

Sounds like what we were talking about a few weeks ago when some of thought the season was over and Hair made the comment about everyone eventually getting to the point they didn't want to admit to back then. Welcome to the flatline...

Here's the thing that scares me. Several weeks ago I had absolutely no doubt about how we'd all find ourselves in the same place eventually. And here we are. The last diehard has now expired. But I have no idea what happens now that we're all gathered in the same dark place.

To paraphrase Deion Sanders, of all people, by keeping the circus intact this team is now risking alot more than losing a few more football games. Because the lack of accountability now means this team risks losing everything. They risk losing the lockerroom, the faith of core players going forward, and any remaining credibility. They risk sowing the seeds of next seasons disaster now.

[HoosierCat]

They risk sowing the seeds of next seasons disaster now.

I would say that they are already sown. The Bengals have no good options. Stick with some/all of the current staff? Clean house in a year when the candidates are likely to be limited to guys who failed elsewhere? Some combination of the two (i.e. the worst of both worlds)?

And that's just the coaches. Look at the roster. When you start cutting out guys who stink or are done, and guys who might be good but can't stay healthy, the list of what there is to build around grows thin.

Mow is we, indeed, mow is we.

[TJJackson]

I think they could salvage things a bit by letting Marvin go now

It'd send a clear message to everyone who remains - 1) there will be a new boss, 2) this sh*t will not be tolerated, and 3) if you expect to keep your job you'd better damn well start demonstrating (everything is taped and can be reviewed later) your value immediately.

But with any smart move the Bengals might make, it won't be made.

[HairOnFire]

I think they could salvage things a bit by letting Marvin go now

I don't want to salvage things.

Because they're no longer just a player or two away and giving the current group more time won't solve the core problems.

Blow it up and replace the coaching staff with people who will not only build a different team, but one that attempts to win in different ways than this one. Don't give me a new or revamped coaching staff that requires a roster filled with new players who are immediately asked to do the very same things the current group is asked to do.

[HairOnFire]

They risk sowing the seeds of next seasons disaster now.

I would say that they are already sown. The Bengals have no good options. Stick with some/all of the current staff? Clean house in a year when the candidates are likely to be limited to guys who failed elsewhere? Some combination of the two (i.e. the worst of both worlds)?

The choice is far easier than most will admit. Clean house.

And that's just the coaches. Look at the roster. When you start cutting out guys who stink or are done, and guys who might be good but can't stay healthy, the list of what there is to build around grows thin.

All the more reason to clean house, IMHO. Because whatever you may have once thought about the talent level on this team....we all feel differently now.

Mow is we, indeed, mow is we.

In more ways than one. Because we've all lost patience with this team to the point that few of us are still watching. The stands are half empty already and those who are still interested to watch do so with a morbid curiosity.

None of us loves THIS team.

More importantly though, an increasing number of us now express outright disdain for the very way it attempts to win games. And like you say above, the core of players deemed worthy of building around grows smaller with each passing day. For just one example, how many of us still wonder why Bernard Scott gets so little playing time? Seriously, isn't it painfully obvious now?

Point blank, this is the part of our story where mow is we needs to morph into mow them down.

[HoosierCat]

Point blank, this is the part of our story where mow is we needs to morph into mow them down.

Works for me. Trouble is, I don't see it happening. The front office would have to pay too many guys not to coach, pay more new guys money to coach, all in the face of a lockout/strike/whatever. But maybe He Who Shall Not Be Named will surprise me...