Anyone else feel that Marvin has quit?

[walzav29]

He might as well get a job at a college school and sing their fight song.

[kingwilly]

I can sense a feeling of quit, all the way out here in CA.

It is the demeanor of the team, on a whole, that is the representation of the HC. While he has never been an overly emotional or revealing HC, like Dick Vermeil or Rex Ryan, it is more about what is missing: Urgency. I see no sense of urgency in what they do on the field, how they react, and how they respond to adversity.

The setbacks this team has been dealt, losing terrible games against CLE, TB and Miami, and being woefully unprepared for the games at NE and ATL, indicate being so far off the mark form what is needed to prepare and lead a professional sports team that one can only interpret he has folded.

With the CBA still a question mark, no contract in place for next year, ML is a lame duck in his current role. Being 2-5 now means he won't get a sniff again as an NFL HC, despite being coach of the year in 2009, because he so drastically changed (or allowed the change) the winning formula from the previous year. Who does that?

I think he is also a bit burned out. Babysitting Chad all these years, dealing with the idiocy of SoP regarding troubled players and scandals, it takes its toll.

He is done. On one hand, who can blame him? On the other, there is no excuse for much of what has gone on under his watch and if it was such a problem, resign.

I am just sick of the act.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I can sense a feeling of quit, all the way out here in CA.

It is the demeanor of the team, on a whole, that is the representation of the HC. While he has never been an overly emotional or revealing HC, like Dick Vermeil or Rex Ryan, it is more about what is missing: Urgency. I see no sense of urgency in what they do on the field, how they react, and how they respond to adversity.

The setbacks this team has been dealt, losing terrible games against CLE, TB and Miami, and being woefully unprepared for the games at NE and ATL, indicate being so far off the mark form what is needed to prepare and lead a professional sports team that one can only interpret he has folded.

With the CBA still a question mark, no contract in place for next year, ML is a lame duck in his current role. Being 2-5 now means he won't get a sniff again as an NFL HC, despite being coach of the year in 2009, because he so drastically changed (or allowed the change) the winning formula from the previous year. Who does that?

I think he is also a bit burned out. Babysitting Chad all these years, dealing with the idiocy of SoP regarding troubled players and scandals, it takes its toll.

He is done. On one hand, who can blame him? On the other, there is no excuse for much of what has gone on under his watch and if it was such a problem, resign.

I am just sick of the act.

It's obvious he's just going through the motions just to keep that hefty paycheck coming because he knows now he'll never make this kind of money again.

[HairOnFire]

He is done. On one hand, who can blame him? On the other, there is no excuse for much of what has gone on under his watch and if it was such a problem, resign.

I am just sick of the act.

I'm a bit torn when it comes to Marvin. The truth of the matter is I've always liked him, I still respect him, and I've got plenty of doubt about the Bengals being able to find a better head coach. But I look at Marvin now in the same way a head coach might look at a QB who they've recently lost faith in. And regardless of whether you've got a replacement QB on your roster...there's no longer any reason to remain commited to the player you lost faith in. Instantly you conclude your time and energy are better spent elsewhere.

[derekshank]

He is done. On one hand, who can blame him? On the other, there is no excuse for much of what has gone on under his watch and if it was such a problem, resign.

I am just sick of the act.

I'm a bit torn when it comes to Marvin. The truth of the matter is I've always liked him, I still respect him, and I've got plenty of doubt about the Bengals being able to find a better head coach. But I look at Marvin now in the same way a head coach might look at a QB who they've recently lost faith in. And regardless of whether you've got a replacement QB on your roster...there's no longer any reason to remain commited to the player you lost faith in. Instantly you conclude your time and energy are better spent elsewhere.

That's more or less how I feel. That said, I'm not sure there is another coach that can handle Mike Brown's redemption projects better than Marvin... and once Chad and TO are gone, I could easily see Marvin restore the locker room to sanity.

Even I can't defend Brat anymore though. For years I've defended his playcalling... but this year he's trying to force a square peg into a round hole. His time has passed.

[BengalPimp]

I still like Marvin, and still believe this team can win under him, but not as long as Bratkowski is the Offensive Coordinator. I don't know of any available coach ( with the possible exception of Bill Cowher) that can do more than Marvin has done considering the Ownership.

If Marvin is gone after the year, the ONLY positive I can find will be the fact that Bratkowski will also likely be gone. I'm sure the new HC will want to bring in his own Offensive Coordinator (or at least notice right away Brat is a moron).

[jjakq27]

He is done. On one hand, who can blame him? On the other, there is no excuse for much of what has gone on under his watch and if it was such a problem, resign.

I am just sick of the act.

I'm a bit torn when it comes to Marvin. The truth of the matter is I've always liked him, I still respect him, and I've got plenty of doubt about the Bengals being able to find a better head coach. But I look at Marvin now in the same way a head coach might look at a QB who they've recently lost faith in. And regardless of whether you've got a replacement QB on your roster...there's no longer any reason to remain commited to the player you lost faith in. Instantly you conclude your time and energy are better spent elsewhere.

That's more or less how I feel. That said, I'm not sure there is another coach that can handle Mike Brown's redemption projects better than Marvin... and once Chad and TO are gone, I could easily see Marvin restore the locker room to sanity.

Even I can't defend Brat anymore though. For years I've defended his playcalling... but this year he's trying to force a square peg into a round hole. His time has passed.

I can see Marvin remaining here even though it seems like there is a feeling that he will be gone after this season. I think he could be (and the team would like him to be) someone like Jeff Fisher or what Bill Cowher was before he retired. But there needs to be some systematic improvements and one could be the OC and the other is talent evaluation and acquisition.

[Kazkal]

He is done. On one hand, who can blame him? On the other, there is no excuse for much of what has gone on under his watch and if it was such a problem, resign.

I am just sick of the act.

I'm a bit torn when it comes to Marvin. The truth of the matter is I've always liked him, I still respect him, and I've got plenty of doubt about the Bengals being able to find a better head coach. But I look at Marvin now in the same way a head coach might look at a QB who they've recently lost faith in. And regardless of whether you've got a replacement QB on your roster...there's no longer any reason to remain commited to the player you lost faith in. Instantly you conclude your time and energy are better spent elsewhere.

Feel the same...

[walzav29]

I like him too. I feel the team would be better off if Marvin had more say, but Mike won't give it to him. I think that handicaps Marvin. I'm dreading Monday. I think it's going to magnify how bad everything really is.

[COB]

Mike was probably afraid he'd have to pay Marvin during a lockout year, no new contract for Marvin. Lame duck coach equals players who do whatever they want and don't respect you. This place was a tire fire before Marvin got here. Anyone screaming for his head has a really short memory.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Mike was probably afraid he'd have to pay Marvin during a lockout year, no new contract for Marvin. Lame duck coach equals players who do whatever they want and don't respect you. This place was a tire fire before Marvin got here. Anyone screaming for his head has a really short memory.

That's exactly why I've held off on screaming for his head, as you put it. Grass ain't always greener. If I was confident Mikey wouldn't promote from within, I'd say it's time for change. As it stands...who the hell knows.

I think you're probably right that the pending lockout is driving Mikey's decision making. It's a shame though.

[HairOnFire]

I can see Marvin remaining here even though it seems like there is a feeling that he will be gone after this season.

Here's a nagging feeling I haven't been able to shake.

That with each loss this season it becomes more and more likely that everyone, Marvin included, will be back.

Not kidding.

My nagging feelings are mostly based upon the two things.

First, the lack of accountability being demonstrated now isn't out of character for this team. It's practically standard operating procedure in regards to players AND coaches. Which dovetails neatly with the second point. That not only is there no sign of accountability....the team is actually showing a further committment to the very personalities that have failed most. In fact, salvaging reputations and proving a style of play can work seem far more important than victories.

All of which points out the folly of the question being asked by so many this week. Can this season be salvaged? Well forgive me for pointing out the obvious but that's no longer a question worth asking. Rather, the real questions that needs to be asked is if this team can be salvaged? Can anything that happens in the next 9 games prevent a postseason teardown?

My gut says no, but my eyes aren't seeing anything that points to changes being made or even considered yet.

"The plan doesn't change just because it didn't work." --- Marvin Lewis, circa 2008

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Here's a nagging feeling I haven't been able to shake....that with each loss this season it becomes more and more likely that everyone, Marvin included, will be back...the lack of accountability being demonstrated now isn't out of character for this team.

I suppose it depends on why Marvin wouldn't be back. If you think Mikey would be more likely to desire a losing coach, that sounds even too screwed up for him. However, if you're going off the assumption that the primary reason Marvin would have left in 2011 was to find greener pastures based on 2010 success, I might buy that. The fact that the success didn't pan out gives him fewer places to land and more reason to stay. But there has to be a point where even Mikey says "to hell with it."

Ultimately, the CBA issues may end up answering the question: if there isn't one by the time Marvin's contract is up (when would that be - February?), then I could easily see Mikey no-bidding on Marvin and going coachless until 2012. Unless he can strongarm Marvin into a clause where he doesn't get paid if there's no football in 2011. Of course, a cynic might suggest Marvin ain't getting paid in 2011 even if there is football, unless it's Mikey's money. At that point, it would come down to how much pride Marvin can swallow.

So I guess if there's a scenario where Marvin comes back, it's 1) he loses enough that nobody wants him, 2) wins enough pointless games late to convince Mikey there's hope, 3) there's no CBA until summer at least, 4) no outside coach will sign Mikey's no-CBA-no-pay contract, 5) Marvin will because he has no better offer.

So, based on that - do I cheer for wins or losses?

[volcom69]

Mike was probably afraid he'd have to pay Marvin during a lockout year, no new contract for Marvin. Lame duck coach equals players who do whatever they want and don't respect you. This place was a tire fire before Marvin got here. Anyone screaming for his head has a really short memory.

That's exactly why I've held off on screaming for his head, as you put it. Grass ain't always greener. If I was confident Mikey wouldn't promote from within, I'd say it's time for change. As it stands...who the hell knows.

I think you're probably right that the pending lockout is driving Mikey's decision making. It's a shame though.

While i agree with the grass is not always greener on the other side, it still sucks that under Marvin they only have 2 winning seasons. When expectations are at there highest this team has been horrible under Marvin. I do not hate Marvin, and i liked what he has done, but i would like to expect more winning under somebody who has been here for awhile.

With that said, i feel bad for him having to work under Mike, and having to teach guys like Chad. In Chads early years i had such high expectations for him as well, but look where that headed. I just wonder if the guys quit on Marvin? Or if they even have respect for him. This week during his press confrence it dosnt even sound like he wants to be here

[Horsemen]

I suppose it depends on why Marvin wouldn't be back. If you think Mikey would be more likely to desire a losing coach, that sounds even too screwed up for him. However, if you're going off the assumption that the primary reason Marvin would have left in 2011 was to find greener pastures based on 2010 success, I might buy that. The fact that the success didn't pan out gives him fewer places to land and more reason to stay. But there has to be a point where even Mikey says "to hell with it."

The more losses that pile up the closer Lewis gets to remaining here. Marvins whole leverage was having the team in the playoffs last year. The plan was obvious the moment it was let out that he refused to sign an extension: Either Brown caved, giving Lewis a fat contract, indoor practice facility and the other things Lewis wants or and this one hinged on winning this year, Lewis walks for a big payday.

That leverage as well as the opportunities are slipping away. A few more losses and his option is either 1: Resign here and stay or 2: Hope for a DC job somewhere. No matter if ya love the guy or hate him when he posts a losing season this year it's unlikely ANY team touches him in the offseason for a HC job. He'd have to return to being an assistant for a few seasons. I fear he will be here several more years when we finish this losing season.

As for Mikey Brown, the guy doesn't think rationally. He likes Lewis and likes that Lewis can average us at 8-8 most seasons, good enough to keep the arena sold out, not quite good enough to cost us to lose money with playoff games every year. Plus and I would almost bet this is his mindset: "Well we're not doing good and it needs fixed. Lewis has been here for a decade almost he should fix it."

As to myself, yeah that's a fear for me, as well as the fear he reverts back to his "promote from within" bulls**t. Both are very real, very scary possibilities. The absolutely best thing that could have happened was we made the playoffs again this year. Even had we not won, as long as we made them. Brown would have either had to cave or Lewis would have left. Thing about caving is, Lewis supposedly wanted some more scouts, a GM and an indoor bubble. The pressure would have been on because hey, Lewis would have been the man to give us back to back winning seasons/playoff showings. Unheard of. Mikey might have feared a backlash and the fans boycotting games for letting that coach get away. There would have been a small chance we had some change.

On the flipside had they repeated Zimmer would without a doubt have better teams interested in him for a HC gig, or DC gig, and if Lewis had walked then.... Well then those interested in the vacant HC spot would all be wanting what Lewis asked for. An interesting fact is the changing dynamics of the NFL. Once apon a time wide eyed coordinators would jump at whatever HC job opened. More and more however we are seeing a sort of trend of assistant coaches turning down HC opportunities. We're seeing guys biding their time until the good opportunities open up. There would have been a push against Mikey towards adapting to the NFL circa 2011 and with Pumpkin taking over more and more of the daily duties? Who knows.

NOW however it's back in his hands. Lewis, Zimmer and obviously Brat, noone of them will command a head coaching job at the end of the season. Nor more money elsewhere. Brown now has a HC noone else will want for HC and two assistants noone will touch. Say hello to status quo.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying if we had a winning season Bratkowski would garner interest elsewhere. He likely would have been replaced however. That was one of Marvins demands at the time he had leverage. Zimmer would have been promoted elsewhere I bet, Lewis would have gotten his wishes or left and with pressure to hire a competent HC on, well no other HC would have wanted to keep Brat. That would have left Brown caving on that issue OR risking massive boycotts through replacing a winning HC with Brat.

[HairOnFire]

A few more losses and his option is either 1: Resign here and stay or 2: Hope for a DC job somewhere.

Actually, I think we've reached that point already.

As for Mikey Brown, the guy doesn't think rationally. He likes Lewis and likes that Lewis can average us at 8-8 most seasons, good enough to keep the arena sold out, not quite good enough to cost us to lose money with playoff games every year. Plus and I would almost bet this is his mindset: "Well we're not doing good and it needs fixed. Lewis has been here for a decade almost he should fix it."

My take is slightly different. IMHO Mike Brown likely considers himself in an unequal partnership with Lewis and is fully aware of his own role in this seasons failure. As a result I think Brown may be reluctant to fire Lewis and will keep his offer on the table as long as he believes Lewis is willing to return. And without leverage or options Lewis may find himself in no position to consider otherwise.

[Horsemen]

Either way I can honestly say if Lewis returns the last shred of hope I have for this franchise will also be killed, just like the previous hope I once had. Any of the aforementioned, really. My last hope I have is Brown decides to start over fresh at the LEAST giving us all a "well these folks have never coached for us before and it's a new staff, who knows? Time to give them a chance and maybe they'll fare well."

[walzav29]

Why does Marv have free reign to fire DC's but not OC's.

[BengalszoneBilly]

"The plan doesn't change just because it didn't work." --- Marvin Lewis

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results” --- Albert Einstein

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

My take is slightly different. IMHO Mike Brown likely considers himself in an unequal partnership with Lewis and is fully aware of his own role in this seasons failure. As a result I think Brown may be reluctant to fire Lewis and will keep his offer on the table as long as he believes Lewis is willing to return.

If Mikey possessed that degree of introspection, wouldn't he have hired a GM sometime in the last 18 years?

[Horsemen]

Why does Marv have free reign to fire DC's but not OC's.

The question really should be... Who says he doesn't? We along with the media are speculating that Lewis can snap his fingers and make every coach except for Brat and Alexander go bye bye. Either they for whatever reason are two guys Brown loves and thus will NEVER be fired by anyone or... Lewis actually wants them on his staff. Either way we don't know 100% for certain, BUT that question will be answered soon.

[Kazkal]

Why does Marv have free reign to fire DC's but not OC's.

because mike brown feels like he's involved with the offense by choosing and staying with brat.

Lewis actually wants them on his staff. Either way we don't know 100% for certain, BUT that question will be answered soon.

I'd put money on that this is untrue,They were both here before Marvin was hired and were mike brown guys,You don't think Marvin would want to pick his own Assistant Coach and offensive Coordinator and be stuck with the same terrible 2 his entire career as a HC? I still wish we would have given Hue Jackson a shot he's doing a solid job with oakland who has alot less offensive toys then us.

[Stripes]

I don't think Marvin has "quit" and rather resent that notion entirely. Nor am I interested in ignoring the specific circumstances of the five losses so that I can fall into the predictable and irrelevant "Mike Brown is deliberately managing a mediocre franchise" bulls**t.

I'm ready for a change, but Marvin's effort is nowhere among my complaints.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I don't think Marvin has "quit" and rather resent that notion entirely. Nor am I interested in ignoring the specific circumstances of the five losses so that I can fall into the predictable and irrelevant "Mike Brown is deliberately managing a mediocre franchise" bulls**t.

I'm ready for a change, but Marvin's effort is nowhere among my complaints.

Give me a break... a couple games ago he twice put 12 men on the field in the same game. A winnable game at that! That's just bad coaching. Marvin has been at the helm since 2003, and since that time Cincinnati has sniffed but ONE playoff game. Throw the 2005 season out, and you've got a record David Shula would be proud of. Marvin Lewis has shot his wad in the Queen City. It's over, and he's done.

[Stripes]

I don't think Marvin has "quit" and rather resent that notion entirely. Nor am I interested in ignoring the specific circumstances of the five losses so that I can fall into the predictable and irrelevant "Mike Brown is deliberately managing a mediocre franchise" bulls**t.

I'm ready for a change, but Marvin's effort is nowhere among my complaints.

Give me a break... a couple games ago he twice put 12 men on the field in the same game. A winnable game at that! That's just bad coaching. Marvin has been at the helm since 2003, and since that time Cincinnati has sniffed but ONE playoff game. Throw the 2005 season out, and you've got a record David Shula would be proud of. Marvin Lewis has shot his wad in the Queen City. It's over, and he's done.

I said I'm ready for a change. I don't think two 12 men on the field penalties are reflective of his effort potentially lacking. His chief weakness has always been game-management, that's a testament to it. I hate his clock management too. None of that has anything to do with his effort.

Also, to assess his coaching career here and disregard his best season (one of the two playoff appearances) is just silly.