Is anyone optimistic?

[HoosierCat]

As for the more optimistic rants of Pimp and Hoosier? All I'll say is that it makes me sorta sad seeing both of you fail to grasp the so-called it moment.

Uh-huh. Last time I remember you getting so exercised over a so-called it moment was week 2, 2001, when you were declaring to all and sundry that the Bengals had "turned the corner."

[cHaD711Johnson]

I'm optimistic. I'm also a homer though so take that with a grain of salt.

[HairOnFire]

As for the more optimistic rants of Pimp and Hoosier? All I'll say is that it makes me sorta sad seeing both of you fail to grasp the so-called it moment.

Uh-huh. Last time I remember you getting so exercised over a so-called it moment was week 2, 2001, when you were declaring to all and sundry that the Bengals had "turned the corner."

Are you still fighting messageboard wars from 2001? If so, can I ask if that was that the last time you got something right or just the last time you were sober?

And aren't you the same guy who chastised an entire messageboard only a few months ago for expressing concerns over Dennis Roland's pass blocking? In fact, didn't you say something about how silly everyone was being and how you were...(wait for it)..."totally unconcerned".

And now that I think about it, aren't you the guy who repeatedly claimed you were also "totally unconcerned" about Chad's focus this season, downplaying his appearance on multiple television shows and cartoons while being conspicuously absent from training camp...where a new offense was being introduced.

Whatever. I clearly don't have to wade back 9 years to find an example of you not feeling the moment. Because last month, last week, yesterday, and today will do just fine.

As for the reasons Bengals season is toast after 5 games? Well, you clearly haven't figured it out yet, and probably won't for another nine years.

Bottoms up.

[HoosierCat]

Whatever. I clearly don't have to wade back 9 years to find an example of you not feeling the moment.

Neither do I. Weren't you the guy who spent the whole offseason touting Antonio Bryant as the answer? Weren't you Andre Smith's biggest, bestest booster? And I'm still waiting for Jerome "Godot" Simpson, whose biggest problem getting on the field is probably that he's still trying to wipe off all the drool you covered him with in the preseason. No, your crystal ball doesn't seem any better than mine.

[HairOnFire]

Weren't you the guy who spent the whole offseason touting Antonio Bryant as the answer?

No, but I did call the successful recovery from injury of Bryant and Odom the two biggest keys to this season.

Weren't you Andre Smith's biggest, bestest booster?

Probably. Then again, I repeatedly and consistently pimped Brian Orakpo over everyone in that draft, including Smith, and Orakpo was named DROY. Meanwhile, you were busy pimping a 340 lb DT from Boston College who is now safely hidden away in Green Bay's witness protection program.

And I'm still waiting for Jerome "Godot" Simpson, whose biggest problem getting on the field is probably that he's still trying to wipe off all the drool you covered him with in the preseason.

Simpson played pretty well in preseason, right? So why shouldn't I drool? After all, guys like you were claiming there was zero chance he could earn a roster spot over the likes of Dez Briscoe.

points/laughs

[HoosierCat]

Meanwhile, you were busy pimping a 340 lb DT from Boston College who is now safely hidden away in Green Bay's witness protection program.

Yeah, it would totally suck to have a defensive lineman who's currently averaging half a sack a game on this team.

[Stripes]

I'll be optimistic when this team commits to being a winning franchise.

Whatever that means.

[Horsemen]

I'll be optimistic when this team commits to being a winning franchise.

Whatever that means.

It's pretty self explanatory.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Yeah, it would totally suck to have a defensive lineman who's currently averaging half a sack a game on this team.

I think you could say our D-linemen definitely average less than half a sack. I think our O-linemen seem to be sporting empty sacks. And it often occurs to me that our starting WRs are plumbed differently altogether.

[ArmyBengal]

Went home for the weekend and enjoyed my sons 4th birthday. I watched the game after they managed to sell out the joint. Anyone want to place bets on seeing that streak continue through the season ?? Anyway, this is yet another example of the Bengals NOT beating a team they should clearly have beaten. Just like last week against the Browns, only this time at home. It's bullsh*t plain and simple. Funny thing is, I'm not even angry about it.

The team is an absolute dysfunctional mess from the top to the bottom. The coaches don't seem to know what the hell is going on during the game or with their players. The players don't seem to show any type of discipline, focus, or accountability. They give the same speaches about "cutting down on mistakes", "playing to potential", and of course, "going out next week and getting it done".

This sh*t is just sad. This team has loads of talent and no desire. I was wrong about them not having an identity and there's a 4 letter word for it: S-U-C-K. Not based on their win/loss record, but rather how little they have been able to accomplish with the amount of talent they have on the roster. They have shot themselves in the foot as well as most other body parts you want to name and while I wouldn't be surprised by them doing better the remainder of the season, NO, i'm not optimistic.

Please spare me the "quitter" babble as well. It's about seeing what this team has done against the teams they should beat and then looking at the teams they still have to face. I will still watch each and every Sunday, while wearing my jersey, and root them on. However, there is something seriously wrong with the Bengals.

WHODEY !?!?

[Stripes]

I'll be optimistic when this team commits to being a winning franchise.

Whatever that means.

It's pretty self explanatory.

Could be. I find it entirely vague and meaningless. How does a fan identify that his/her favorite team "is not committed to winning" and how does such a team "commit to winning"?

[Horsemen]

Whatever that means.

Actually, i'll explain myself. Call this a tale of two NFL franchises.

Franchise 1: This first franchise wasn't quite the bottom feeder, however it had it's issues once apon a time. This team was purchased by a new owner who had committed to winning. That wasn't going to be an easy task year in and year out, however he persisted. His persistence and commitment paid off when after doing EXTENSIVE research he found the right head coach and GM to put into place. This gentlemen hired them, handed them the checkbook and stepped back. They in turn brought in an entirely new scouting department, found the best assistants for the system possible and completely rebuilt the entire roster. They molded the entire franchise around a proven Philosophy, changed the culture of the team and they are now consistently a WINNER, including multiple Superbowls.

Franchise #2: This franchise was founded by without a doubt the greatest football mind in NFL history. A man who had a commitment to winning. During it's first two decades in existence it didn't exactly enjoy consistent success, in fact that is when the game caught up to the owners Innovations, however it enjoyed a fair share of success. Unfortunately this owner died leaving the team to his son. Now his son, he's a stubborn man, still living in NFL circa 1952, an era when a scouting department meant sending the head coach to a couple College ball games with a stopwatch and notebook. He is also admittedly frugal, to the point it recently came out in a recent news article he has complained over other team owners building new stadiums. Why? In his own words because it FORCES him to field an equally competitive product. Anyways, this... Gentlemen after sending his fathers team into the NFL sewer started losing money due to fans boycotting games, so he hired and gave the keys to a first time head coach. Now this same HC has been around for almost a decade, and proven himself fairly inept, something that has been clear for SEVERAL years now. He has ALSO made a further mockery of his fathers franchise by giving contracts to criminals not to mention keeping around ***holes.

Team 1 is the New England Patriots, although the Stoolers and Colts could also apply. Robert Kraft apon realizing he ISN'T a football man studied up and consulted a whole slew of owners, former GM's, coaches and so on before making his decision. The result was hiring Bill Belichick and his handpicked GM Scott Pioli. The result of course being three Lombardi's resulting in a dynasty and nine winning seasons out of 10. The irony of it all is through that initial investment all three of those teams spend less on players than we do in the longrun and never have to rebuild.

Team #2 is the Bengals, obviously. Where a head coach can have two winning seasons out of eight and be offered an extension. A team that wastes more money trying to find bargains than they would if only they would hire competent personnel. A team that continues to be bured by me first players brought here then coddled by the aformentioned mediocre head coach.

I'm not asking for a new GM or to blow a hundred mil on free agents, although a GM would be great. I just would LOVE to see SOME sort of commitment towards being a WINNER. That means ushering out ineffective players, that means telling me-first players to f' off the second they start yapping, it means telling mediocre coaches to hit the road. Vowing to build the roster through hardworking, high character players. Hell i'd just like to see SOMEONE in power show that they love this team as much as I do. I've honestly not been optimistic in several years. It was clear at the end of 2006 Bratkowski needed to go, Lewis should have been fired after falling from 12-5 in 2005 to 7-9 in 2007. I'd love to be full of optimism, to believe. To NOT envy the Chiefs, Jets, Dolphins ect because their front office refuses to accept losing and at least TRIES to get the right people in place.

[Horsemen]

Could be. I find it entirely vague and meaningless. How does a fan identify that his/her favorite team "is not committed to winning" and how does such a team "commit to winning"?

See above. Mike Brown was recently quoted as complaining at an owners meeting he's being FORCED to compete with other teams. What does that say to you? Plus the stuff about keeping around divas, signing up lazy asses, gangbanger wannabes, mediocre coaches ect and sticking with them.

[walzav29]

Went home for the weekend and enjoyed my sons 4th birthday. I watched the game after they managed to sell out the joint. Anyone want to place bets on seeing that streak continue through the season ?? Anyway, this is yet another example of the Bengals NOT beating a team they should clearly have beaten. Just like last week against the Browns, only this time at home. It's bullsh*t plain and simple. Funny thing is, I'm not even angry about it.

The team is an absolute dysfunctional mess from the top to the bottom. The coaches don't seem to know what the hell is going on during the game or with their players. The players don't seem to show any type of discipline, focus, or accountability. They give the same speaches about "cutting down on mistakes", "playing to potential", and of course, "going out next week and getting it done".

This sh*t is just sad. This team has loads of talent and no desire. I was wrong about them not having an identity and there's a 4 letter word for it: S-U-C-K. Not based on their win/loss record, but rather how little they have been able to accomplish with the amount of talent they have on the roster. They have shot themselves in the foot as well as most other body parts you want to name and while I wouldn't be surprised by them doing better the remainder of the season, NO, i'm not optimistic.

Please spare me the "quitter" babble as well. It's about seeing what this team has done against the teams they should beat and then looking at the teams they still have to face. I will still watch each and every Sunday, while wearing my jersey, and root them on. However, there is something seriously wrong with the Bengals.

WHODEY !?!?

I agree with you 100%. The team has talent, and will go on a little Marvin Lewis run to get close to playoffs and then fold. To me this is an example of the ownership blowing it. You have to think Mike Brown wants to keep Bratkowski. Which effects Marvins plans. As for Marvin. I have to blame him for the penalties because the team has no discipline. I'll watch every game this year, and like a stupid leming I'll be back next year. This sickens me, because they have the talent to really be good. It won't get done. All they have to do is fire Brat and promote Zampese to OC.

[HairOnFire]

Went home for the weekend and enjoyed my sons 4th birthday. I watched the game after they managed to sell out the joint. Anyone want to place bets on seeing that streak continue through the season ?? Anyway, this is yet another example of the Bengals NOT beating a team they should clearly have beaten. Just like last week against the Browns, only this time at home. It's bullsh*t plain and simple. Funny thing is, I'm not even angry about it.

The team is an absolute dysfunctional mess from the top to the bottom. The coaches don't seem to know what the hell is going on during the game or with their players. The players don't seem to show any type of discipline, focus, or accountability. They give the same speaches about "cutting down on mistakes", "playing to potential", and of course, "going out next week and getting it done".

This sh*t is just sad. This team has loads of talent and no desire. I was wrong about them not having an identity and there's a 4 letter word for it: S-U-C-K. Not based on their win/loss record, but rather how little they have been able to accomplish with the amount of talent they have on the roster. They have shot themselves in the foot as well as most other body parts you want to name and while I wouldn't be surprised by them doing better the remainder of the season, NO, i'm not optimistic.

Please spare me the "quitter" babble as well. It's about seeing what this team has done against the teams they should beat and then looking at the teams they still have to face. I will still watch each and every Sunday, while wearing my jersey, and root them on. However, there is something seriously wrong with the Bengals.

WHODEY !?!?

Thank you, Army. From one Bengal fan to another I know writing the above had to be as unpleasant for you as it will be for some to read. But it's honest and that speaks directly to my biggest complaint about this board recently. Because IMHO what we do here has never really been about who is right, and it's only partially about who was wrong. Rather, it's about having honest conversations about the Bengals, something that's been nearly impossible to do around here for more than a month. Furthermore, the same posters who have made honest discussions impossible since the season began are still in denial about the reasons why this team currently finds itself in the position it's in....thereby making impossible any future honest conversations about what it all means.

If you ask me, and none of you did, BengalNation now finds itself in the 2nd stage of grief recovery. More specifically, having just emerged from a state of intense denial we've now moved on to anger. The Great Gnashing of Teeth. Or if you prefer, the Season of Angry Men Mowing Lawns.

Weary resignation comes next, a stage that will come to each of us in it's own time. In fact, some of us are already there. Others will follow in dribs and drabs from one week to the next. But in the end we'll all end up in the same place having made the same conclusions.

We have fallen down and gone boom.

[walzav29]

I believe Zimmer will be the new HC. I wonder if he'll be able to get a new OC?

[hdo]

When the major Bengal headlines concern TO & Chad's show, that is a problem. Are those two focused on the NFL or on the Emmys?

[Horsemen]

I believe Zimmer will be the new HC. I wonder if he'll be able to get a new OC?

If he's made the HC I GUARANTEE Bratkowski is retained. Why do I say that? Because NFL Network does a show about NFL Families and in one special it was about Zimmer and his family. He and Brat have been close friends for 20 years now, have family gatherings together and I get the sense it was more Brat getting Zimmer here than Marvin. So if Zimmer is promoted? Prepare for more years with Bozo Bratkowski.

[HairOnFire]

When the major Bengal headlines concern TO & Chad's show, that is a problem. Are those two focused on the NFL or on the Emmys?

Again, Terrell Owens will be the feature speaker this Saturday at what is being billed as an "Exclusive Day of Beauty, Health, and Wellness" conference, to be held at the Los Angeles Terranea Oceanfront Resort.

Just $175 a ticket for what promises to be a truly 5 Star experience. And all attendees who stay for the entire day, from 7:30 AM to 5:00 PM, will receive an elegant gift bag valued at $200 by event sponsors, including the Korea Tourism Organization, LA Beautiful Cosmetic Surgery Inc., Progencell Therapies (Stem Cells), and MBT, the makers of the Anti-Shoe.

Other speakers besides Owens include the cast of the television show The Doctors, breast book author Dr Susan Love, and "Rock What You've Got" author and self-described youth ambassador, Katherine Schwarzenegger.

Not kidding.

[COB]

When the major Bengal headlines concern TO & Chad's show, that is a problem. Are those two focused on the NFL or on the Emmys?

Again, Terrell Owens will be the feature speaker this Saturday at what is being billed as an "Exclusive Day of Beauty, Health, and Wellness" conference, to be held at the Los Angeles Terranea Oceanfront Resort.

Just $175 a ticket for what promises to be a truly 5 Star experience. And all attendees who stay for the entire day, from 7:30 AM to 5:00 PM, will receive an elegant gift bag valued at $200 by event sponsors, including the Korea Tourism Organization, LA Beautiful Cosmetic Surgery Inc., Progencell Therapies (Stem Cells), and MBT, the makers of the Anti-Shoe.

Other speakers besides Owens include the cast of the television show The Doctors, breast book author Dr Susan Love, and "Rock What You've Got" author and self-described youth ambassador, Katherine Schwarzenegger.

Not kidding.

Pretty El Lay sounding, new agey type get together there.

/Shoves double Baconator with extra mayo into face/

[HairOnFire]

Pretty El Lay sounding, new agey type get together there.

/Shoves double Baconator with extra mayo into face/

It gets even better. Or worse, depending upon your perspective.

Here's a list of actual exibitors:

AmeriSciencesRX - Nutritional supplements

BABOR Cosmetics - Makeup and wellness products

Morning Crunch Bootcamp - Exercise program based upon using the natural terrain

Elude Med Spa - Botox, skin care, laser hair removal

My Flor'n France - Skin care solutions based upon plant extracts

Lindora Clinic - Weight loss

Newport Beach HLC - Hair loss/ hair replacement clinics

NuSkin - Anti-aging skin care products

Reiki Center/South Bay - Hands-on healing

ROMfab - Makers of excercise equipment

ShieldLife - Wellness program based upon patented eloctromagnetic field shield technologies

Skylar Center for Womens Wellness - Daily hormone therapy for daily stress

Skylight InfraRed - Removing toxins from your body using the power of the suns rays

St.Tropez - Tanning products

StreetStrider - Worlds first elliptical cross-trainer on wheels

Tata Harper Skincare - Fight free radicals with 100% natural moisterizer

Thailand Vacation Tourism Board - Helping you plan your own wellness program using the care and treatment options available overseas at leading Asian medical centers.

Plus, Terrell Owens as the keynote speaker!

So ask yourselves, what will you be doing this Saturday?

Mowing the lawn, right?

[COB]

Skylight InfraRed - Removing toxins from your body using the power of the suns rays

Sounds legitimate.

Off topic, but remember est? A guy named Werner Erhard put on something back in the '70s called Erhard Seminars Training. He wrote books, did the seminars, the whole thing. It was supposedly this movement, but it was really just positive thinking and positive reinforcement, pounded into you. It was the basis for the seminar and the guru Kris Kristofferson's character got into the the movie "Semi-tough."

There's a new book called "His Father's Son - Earl and Tiger Woods", by Tom Callahan, in which the author states that Earl Woods, through his life, was an adherent to the principles of est, and that he raised Tiger using those principles. Which helps explain Tiger's bizarre mental toughness, and his complete misunderstanding of what being a responsible human being entails.

I'm off to have magnets placed all over my body while I use the meditation brainwaves produced by Tibetan monks to remove free radicals from my chi. Then I'll work on my screenplay and underpay a Mexican to run a leafblower. Ah, California!

[HairOnFire]

I'm off to have magnets placed all over my body while I use the meditation brainwaves produced by Tibetan monks to remove free radicals from my chi. Then I'll work on my screenplay and underpay a Mexican to run a leafblower. Ah, California!

Be nice. If prop 19 passes Californians will suddenly have more freedom than all of the plaid-shirt wearing, pickup truck driving, bible thumped states combined. And that won't change regardless of how much cheese you hinterland types put on your meals or how much sugar you add to your sugary soft drinks.

On the downside however, my new Gov will soon be either Prince Moonbeam or a remarkably unattractive whore, replacing our states beloved yet incompetent robotic Austrian import.

Sad times.

[COB]

If prop 19 passes Californians...

Wiki'd it. For those not in the know, Prop 19 will essentially legalize marijuana in the Golden State. Legalize it, and Hair will advertise it!

I forgot this thing was on the ballot. Any polling on this one?

I'll bet fifty bucks Gloria Allred did something very perverse and sodomistic to that e-bay lady's house Mexican. All that weeping, all that shame and degradation? Over the e-bay lady making her clean the cat barf out of the carpet or some s**t like that? Not buying it.

[HairOnFire]

If prop 19 passes Californians...

Wiki'd it. For those not in the know, Prop 19 will essentially legalize marijuana in the Golden State. Legalize it, and Hair will advertise it!

I forgot this thing was on the ballot. Any polling on this one?

Of six polls conducted so far Prop 19 is projected to pass overwhelmingly in three examples and narrowly loses in the three others. The difference is based upon so-called robo polling, where voters give opinions to automated prompts. Each robo poll results in Prop 19 winning handily. However, when voters are asked for their opinions by actual humans the numbers crater and a narrow loss is then projected. Experts claim the difference in the robo/human poll numbers relate to social stigma, resulting in voters being less honest when speaking to people.

Go figure.