Worse loss under Marvin?

[Stripes]

Of course you do, I guess a better question would be is the risk worth the benefit in this situation?

I think so. Frankly, even in a turnover-proned offense the interception is by far the least likely result of that play. A completion nets a first down and probably a win, while an incompletion nets the same punt that everyone else wanted granted with more time on the clock. That the turnover ended up happening isn't terribly relevant to me from a play-calling standpoint. I think blame has to fall on the players for that.

[cincyhokie]

Of course you do, I guess a better question would be is the risk worth the benefit in this situation?

I think so. Frankly, even in a turnover-proned offense the interception is by far the least likely result of that play. A completion nets a first down and probably a win, while an incompletion nets the same punt that everyone else wanted granted with more time on the clock. That the turnover ended up happening isn't terribly relevant to me from a play-calling standpoint. I think blame has to fall on the players for that.

Uh, not when the opposing team is getting the ball at the 20 or less yard line. No timeouts and less than 2 minutes on the clock when they start their possession.

I think the coaches are to blame for putting the players in that situation.

[HoosierCat]

Sorry man, nobody agrees with that. Again, what is there to GAIN from passing the ball?

Um, first down, maintain possession, run out the clock, win the game?

Crazy concept, I know.

It's funny to listen to this tonight. Last season, I can remember endless complaints about the Bengals "turtling up" and trying to nurse a slim lead, and thereby giving the other team extra opportunities. Today, the complaint is that they didn't turtle up. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

You do not risk that kind of a turnover with 2:20 left in the game

You risk a turnover every play. No guarantee that if they run it, Benson or Scott doesn't fumble.

It turned out to be a bad play, yes. But it was not a play call that was "against all football logic." It was a perfectly understandable, even predictable call. It's a call that 32 out of 32 teams make in that position.

That one's on the guys on the field, not the coaches.

It was so predictable that the other team knew the route. Check out the post game quotes in the Enquirer.

If your RB is running the ball well and your defense is dominant....and the other team has no time outs in a passing situation......you protect the ball.

Of course you run the risk of a turnover every play but running the ball is the much better way of protecting it. I'm not going to go into why if you don't already know.

OTOH we have a QB who led how many last-minute scoring drives for wins last season? He is supposed to be money when the chips are down. In fact, he was money when the chips were down. So why do you not put the ball in his hands at this point?

Again, if they don't we are probably complaining about them turtling up and not putting their foot on the neck of a bad team that they are up on at home.

"Hindsight is 20/20" is a cliche for a reason.

[volcom69]

I still wanna know where the running game was in the first half.

That's about all that needs said about this game, IMO. Palmer's errors, the penalties, and the dropped passes all could have been overcome or avoided had the Bengals just given the damned ball to Benson.

Yep 3rd and 1 and you throw in the shotgun! Benson ran the ball for 11 yards on first down, and the next three plays are passes and then punt, that is just stupid when your running the ball when you want.

Run the Ball its what you do best, stop trying to do so much. Line up and pound the ball!

[gregstephens]

Sorry man, nobody agrees with that. Again, what is there to GAIN from passing the ball?

Um, first down, maintain possession, run out the clock, win the game?

Crazy concept, I know.

It's funny to listen to this tonight. Last season, I can remember endless complaints about the Bengals "turtling up" and trying to nurse a slim lead, and thereby giving the other team extra opportunities. Today, the complaint is that they didn't turtle up. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

You do not risk that kind of a turnover with 2:20 left in the game

You risk a turnover every play. No guarantee that if they run it, Benson or Scott doesn't fumble.

It turned out to be a bad play, yes. But it was not a play call that was "against all football logic." It was a perfectly understandable, even predictable call. It's a call that 32 out of 32 teams make in that position.

That one's on the guys on the field, not the coaches.

It was so predictable that the other team knew the route. Check out the post game quotes in the Enquirer.

If your RB is running the ball well and your defense is dominant....and the other team has no time outs in a passing situation......you protect the ball.

Of course you run the risk of a turnover every play but running the ball is the much better way of protecting it. I'm not going to go into why if you don't already know.

OTOH we have a QB who led how many last-minute scoring drives for wins last season? He is supposed to be money when the chips are down. In fact, he was money when the chips were down. So why do you not put the ball in his hands at this point?

Again, if they don't we are probably complaining about them turtling up and not putting their foot on the neck of a bad team that they are up on at home.

"Hindsight is 20/20" is a cliche for a reason.

Oh for crying out loud...guess what? It doesn't matter how many last-minute scoring drives for wins he led last season, or all 8 seasons for that matter. Anyone that has watched the first four games of this fiasco season would not trust Palmer to make that throw in this situation--and I suppose I assume too much to think that means his coaches.

[cincyhokie]

Sorry man, nobody agrees with that. Again, what is there to GAIN from passing the ball?

Um, first down, maintain possession, run out the clock, win the game?

Crazy concept, I know.

It's funny to listen to this tonight. Last season, I can remember endless complaints about the Bengals "turtling up" and trying to nurse a slim lead, and thereby giving the other team extra opportunities. Today, the complaint is that they didn't turtle up. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

You do not risk that kind of a turnover with 2:20 left in the game

You risk a turnover every play. No guarantee that if they run it, Benson or Scott doesn't fumble.

It turned out to be a bad play, yes. But it was not a play call that was "against all football logic." It was a perfectly understandable, even predictable call. It's a call that 32 out of 32 teams make in that position.

That one's on the guys on the field, not the coaches.

It was so predictable that the other team knew the route. Check out the post game quotes in the Enquirer.

If your RB is running the ball well and your defense is dominant....and the other team has no time outs in a passing situation......you protect the ball.

Of course you run the risk of a turnover every play but running the ball is the much better way of protecting it. I'm not going to go into why if you don't already know.

OTOH we have a QB who led how many last-minute scoring drives for wins last season? He is supposed to be money when the chips are down. In fact, he was money when the chips were down. So why do you not put the ball in his hands at this point?

Again, if they don't we are probably complaining about them turtling up and not putting their foot on the neck of a bad team that they are up on at home.

"Hindsight is 20/20" is a cliche for a reason.

Who was the best player on the field today, or even to that point? Palmer or Benson?

Again, I didn't have hindsight. I was pissed watching from my seat as he was in the f**king shotgun on 3 and 13. Before the play.

[HoosierCat]

I still wanna know where the running game was in the first half.

That's about all that needs said about this game, IMO. Palmer's errors, the penalties, and the dropped passes all could have been overcome or avoided had the Bengals just given the damned ball to Benson.

Yep 3rd and 1 and you throw in the shotgun! Benson ran the ball for 11 yards on first down, and the next three plays are passes and then punt, that is just stupid when your running the ball when you want.

Run the Ball its what you do best, stop trying to do so much. Line up and pound the ball!

Well, of course, the funny thing is that that's what they did for the two plays before the pass that has everyone in this thread so exercised. And it netted them two yards.

[HoosierCat]

Oh for crying out loud...guess what? It doesn't matter how many last-minute scoring drives for wins he led last season, or all 8 seasons for that matter. Anyone that has watched the first four games of this fiasco season would not trust Palmer to make that throw in this situation--and I suppose I assume too much to think that means his coaches.

Really? Why? Off the top of my head I think this is easily Palmer's worst fourth quarter this year. I don't think he has another Q4 pick outside of the ones this game this year. I could be wrong, feel free to check the numbers, but I'm not seeing a pattern of Palmer turing it over in the clutch (though elsewhere is another matter).

[HoosierCat]

Oh for crying out loud...guess what? It doesn't matter how many last-minute scoring drives for wins he led last season, or all 8 seasons for that matter. Anyone that has watched the first four games of this fiasco season would not trust Palmer to make that throw in this situation--and I suppose I assume too much to think that means his coaches.

Really? Why? Off the top of my head I think this is easily Palmer's worst fourth quarter this year. I don;t think he has another Q4 pick outside of the ones this game this year. I could be wrong, feel free to check the numbers, but Im not seeing a pattern of Palmer turing it over in the clutch (though elsewhere is another matter).

[gregstephens]

Oh for crying out loud...guess what? It doesn't matter how many last-minute scoring drives for wins he led last season, or all 8 seasons for that matter. Anyone that has watched the first four games of this fiasco season would not trust Palmer to make that throw in this situation--and I suppose I assume too much to think that means his coaches.

Really? Why? Off the top of my head I think this is easily Palmer's worst fourth quarter this year. I don;t think he has another Q4 pick outside of the ones this game this year. I could be wrong, feel free to check the numbers, but Im not seeing a pattern of Palmer turing it over in the clutch (though elsewhere is another matter).

Hoos...I respect any sincere ability you have to maintain any form of confidence in Palmer. I suspect you are in vast minority...both among the fanbase and the locker room.

[HoosierCat]

Oh for crying out loud...guess what? It doesn't matter how many last-minute scoring drives for wins he led last season, or all 8 seasons for that matter. Anyone that has watched the first four games of this fiasco season would not trust Palmer to make that throw in this situation--and I suppose I assume too much to think that means his coaches.

Really? Why? Off the top of my head I think this is easily Palmer's worst fourth quarter this year. I don;t think he has another Q4 pick outside of the ones this game this year. I could be wrong, feel free to check the numbers, but Im not seeing a pattern of Palmer turing it over in the clutch (though elsewhere is another matter).

Hoos...I respect any sincere ability you have to maintain any form of confidence in Palmer. I suspect you are in vast minority...both among the fanbase and the locker room.

Fair enough, Greg. I'm not saying Palmer played great. If you ask me, the killer play wasn't the one we've been talking about, but the terrible throw he made on their own 3 that went for a pick 6. And that was totally on him. Damn dumb throw no QB of his experience should ever make.

What I am saying is that I think the gripes about the play calling are a bit one-sided. Let's take this sequence:

1-10 (5:11) (Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass short left to 84-J.Gresham to 50 for 5 yards (25-A.Talib).

2-5-

(4:36) 32-C.Benson left tackle to TB 43 for 7 yards (21-S.Piscitelli).

1-10-TB 43

(4:16) 9-C.Palmer pass deep left to 81-T.Owens for 43 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

I don't hear anyone, for obvious reasons, complaining that after a 7 yard Ced run they threw the ball on first down here. Yet if that had been an incompletion or an interception, you could add that into the "Brat sucks/carson sucks/TO sucks/run the ball" pile.

Bottom line is, I think there's plenty to criticize Carson and Brat over, but I can't bust on them trying to win the game in the fourth. Now, the poor plays and the poor calls that put us in that situation...that's another issue.

[Stripes]

Bottom line is, I think there's plenty to criticize Carson and Brat over, but I can't bust on them trying to win the game in the fourth. Now, the poor plays and the poor calls that put us in that situation...that's another issue.

[bengalspride1219]

Aside from today's loss, the only one I can think of was game in 2006 at home against San Diego. They were up 28-7 at halftime and lost 41-38.

Today's loss was extremely deflating. I would say that it's the worse loss in the last 7 years.

how about the eeerily similar game against the raiders where we were up 7 points with a minute and a half to go before giving up 10 points and losing in regulation.

how about the deflected pass against the broncos last season to lose the game

how about the missed pat against the broncos in 06 to make the playoffs

or the missed 37 yarder against the steelers in the 06 season finale to make the playoffs

or the last time we did play the bucs and lost on a bad call to lose to a winless team, that win wouldve put us in the playoffs as well in 06

idk the bengals blow way too many games its ridiculous.

[cincyhokie]

Bottom line is, I think there's plenty to criticize Carson and Brat over, but I can't bust on them trying to win the game in the fourth. Now, the poor plays and the poor calls that put us in that situation...that's another issue.

Trying to win the game? The game wasn't tied! They were winning with 2 minutes to go and the other team with no timeouts. They had all the momentum and had TB against the wall. You make it sound like the only option to win the game was by passing the ball.

The easiest way for TB to get back in the game was to open the opportunity for mistakes, such as the INT. In this situation you absolutely have to make the Bucs be the ones to make the plays. It's simple. With the way the defense was able to pressure them in obvious passing situations, the BEST strategy would have been to punt the damn ball and then have the defense pin their ears back and go after Freeman.

Again, I wasn't on here saying this during the game, but you better believe I was at the game screaming at Brat to RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Guys....arguing over the last play call is like fighting over whether Nero should have used a banjo instead of a fiddle while Rome burned.

[cincyhokie]

Guys....arguing over the last play call is like fighting over whether Nero should have used a banjo instead of a fiddle while Rome burned.

No, you're right. What it is, in reality, is a great example of how uncoordinated and disheveled this team is. Coaching, preparation, identity, and execution. It's embarrassing. There is no reason they should have lost that game today, the above mentioned play excluded.

This team is a mess.

[HoosierCat]

Bottom line is, I think there's plenty to criticize Carson and Brat over, but I can't bust on them trying to win the game in the fourth. Now, the poor plays and the poor calls that put us in that situation...that's another issue.

Trying to win the game? The game wasn't tied! They were winning with 2 minutes to go and the other team with no timeouts. They had all the momentum and had TB against the wall. You make it sound like the only option to win the game was by passing the ball.

The easiest way for TB to get back in the game was to open the opportunity for mistakes, such as the INT. In this situation you absolutely have to make the Bucs be the ones to make the plays. It's simple. With the way the defense was able to pressure them in obvious passing situations, the BEST strategy would have been to punt the damn ball and then have the defense pin their ears back and go after Freeman.

Again, I wasn't on here saying this during the game, but you better believe I was at the game screaming at Brat to RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!!

I'm sure you were. And it's not a bad strategy. But it's not the only strategy. Get the first down and the game is pretty much over, right? If that's a completion and not a pick we are talking about how Carson is clutch and the Cardiac Cats strike again. For me, this play isn't the issue, it's the fact that once more, this team put itself into the position where it expected Palmer to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Palmer threw a dumbass pick six, the team committed a bunch of dumb penalties, and as a result they lost for the same reasons they've been losing all season: stupid, sloppy play. And yeah, to get back to the topic of this thread, that's on Marvin.

[HoosierCat]

Guys....arguing over the last play call is like fighting over whether Nero should have used a banjo instead of a fiddle while Rome burned.

Perfect.

[cincyhokie]

Bottom line is, I think there's plenty to criticize Carson and Brat over, but I can't bust on them trying to win the game in the fourth. Now, the poor plays and the poor calls that put us in that situation...that's another issue.

Trying to win the game? The game wasn't tied! They were winning with 2 minutes to go and the other team with no timeouts. They had all the momentum and had TB against the wall. You make it sound like the only option to win the game was by passing the ball.

The easiest way for TB to get back in the game was to open the opportunity for mistakes, such as the INT. In this situation you absolutely have to make the Bucs be the ones to make the plays. It's simple. With the way the defense was able to pressure them in obvious passing situations, the BEST strategy would have been to punt the damn ball and then have the defense pin their ears back and go after Freeman.

Again, I wasn't on here saying this during the game, but you better believe I was at the game screaming at Brat to RUN THE DAMN BALL!!!!

I'm sure you were. And it's not a bad strategy. But it's not the only strategy. Get the first down and the game is pretty much over, right? If that's a completion and not a pick we are talking about how Carson is clutch and the Cardiac Cats strike again. For me, this play isn't the issue, it's the fact that once more, this team put itself into the position where it expected Palmer to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Palmer threw a dumbass pick six, the team committed a bunch of dumb penalties, and as a result they lost for the same reasons they've been losing all season: stupid, sloppy play. And yeah, to get back to the topic of this thread, that's on Marvin.

To sum it up for me:

This was the worst loss under Marvin because: They were at home vs. an inferior team that they HAD to beat. On top of that the offense was dominating the game with the running game. To me there was just no excuse in losing a game they had to win and should have won. They had this game in the bag, in my opinion. Disgusting.

Marvin- failing

Brat- needed to go 3 years ago

Palmer- I have zero confidence can lead this team on a playoff run

Coaching overall- Except for Zimmer, they need to flush them out and get some new faces in there. We have too much talent that is not being maximized with the current staff.

[kingwilly]

Guys....arguing over the last play call is like fighting over whether Nero should have used a banjo instead of a fiddle while Rome burned.

Perfect.

In the words of Nicholson, "I'm drowning over here and you're describing the water."

[cincyhokie]

Guys....arguing over the last play call is like fighting over whether Nero should have used a banjo instead of a fiddle while Rome burned.

Perfect.

In the words of Nicholson, "I'm drowning over here and you're describing the water."

Yeah, and the problem is that the water they're drowning is looks like the season. The mistakes made in this game have been there in all 5 games.

Good ol' Nicholson is talking about water that's pretty f**king deep. Same water that's going to be there for the next game.

[kingwilly]

Yep, at this point its the Mariana trench.

I don't see a bottom any time soon.

[cincyhokie]

The only chance the Bengals have to win the next game is to figure out a gameplan that has Benson abusing the Falcons. We may have found the running game today. Time to figure out how to make sure we win every game 13-10 again like last season.

Blah. This weekend sucked. Bengals, Reds. F it.

[pcolabucfan]

My linkhttp://i38.tinypic.com/r8trg8.jpg"]My link

[Stripes]

My linkMy link

Your team is horrible, idiot.