Bengals vs Browns Post Game Discussion.

[kingwilly]

It's not like the season is over. I would like to see B. Scott in there with the hurry up. Run draws, or screens. Now we'll have to hear Cedric start piping up. I don't get why they can't go crazy trying to score points, and then once they have a lead start pounding it with Cedric. Tell Brat to look at old Cowboy footage. I'll tell you this. If they can get Andre to claim the right tackle job, we'll look waaaaay better.

Stop pining for Andre. Guy is a fat piece of garbage. I am calling it now: He's a bust and a liability. He should not be on the field. Is he better than Collins? I highly doubt it.

I agree about bringing in Scott on no-huddle. Run it the whole first half. Get a lead and defend it. Once ahead, THEN go to Benson and a buzzsaw run game.

The fact that Brat is still employed is absurd.

[cincyhokie]

I agree about bringing in Scott on no-huddle. Run it the whole first half. Get a lead and defend it. Once ahead, THEN go to Benson and a buzzsaw run game.

The fact that Brat is still employed is absurd.

Post of the decade.

[HoosierCat]

The fact that Brat is still employed is absurd.

While I agree, I can't pin today's loss on Sideshow Bob. He wasn't out there for the blocked FG, he didn't drop the ball while getting sacked and he and Benson didn't eff up a handoff. The Bengals were -2 on turnover differential, which equates to about an 80% chance of losing.

Bob can't be held responsible for the defense's failures, either. At the end of the 1st quarter through the early part of the second, the Browns went 87 yards in about 5 minutes for a TD. With 1:31 left in the second, the mighty Z-Fence let them drive from their 34 to our 13 and kick a FG. To start the 3rd, they went 64 yards in 6 minutes for 7. And when we needed the ball back at the end of the 4th, they ran out the last 4:41.

Offense turned the ball over. Defense bent and broke. Teams couldn't kick a FG.

Much as I'd like to pin this one on Brat, I can't.

[cincyhokie]

The fact that Brat is still employed is absurd.

While I agree, I can't pin today's loss on Sideshow Bob. He wasn't out there for the blocked FG, he didn't drop the ball while getting sacked and he and Benson didn't eff up a handoff. The Bengals were -2 on turnover differential, which equates to about an 80% chance of losing.

Bob can't be held responsible for the defense's failures, either. At the end of the 1st quarter through the early part of the second, the Browns went 87 yards in about 5 minutes for a TD. With 1:31 left in the second, the mighty Z-Fence let them drive from their 34 to our 13 and kick a FG. To start the 3rd, they went 64 yards in 6 minutes for 7. And when we needed the ball back at the end of the 4th, they ran out the last 4:41.

Offense turned the ball over. Defense bent and broke. Teams couldn't kick a FG.

Much as I'd like to pin this one on Brat, I can't.

I think what he's saying is that it's extremely hard for Brat to prepare the gameplan to the teams strengths. I'm in total agreement that this team should pass to set up the run. I don't think Brat can sense or figure that out.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm in total agreement that this team should pass to set up the run. I don't think Brat can sense or figure that out.

I personally don't think the offensive line is up to the job yet.

[HoosierCat]

I think what he's saying is that it's extremely hard for Brat to prepare the gameplan to the teams strengths.

While I'm not impressed with Brat either, looking at today's game I don't think any offensive game plan is likely to look good after three turnovers. And if the Bengals don't gift the ball to the Browns multiple times, we're probably celebrating a 23-14 or so victory right now.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I think what he's saying is that it's extremely hard for Brat to prepare the gameplan to the teams strengths.

While I'm not impressed with Brat either, looking at today's game I don't think any offensive game plan is likely to look good after three turnovers. And if the Bengals don't gift the ball to the Browns multiple times, we're probably celebrating a 23-14 or so victory right now.

That's the way I feel. I'm just stoked Palmer finally woke up for major yardage.

[cincyhokie]

I think what he's saying is that it's extremely hard for Brat to prepare the gameplan to the teams strengths.

While I'm not impressed with Brat either, looking at today's game I don't think any offensive game plan is likely to look good after three turnovers. And if the Bengals don't gift the ball to the Browns multiple times, we're probably celebrating a 23-14 or so victory right now.

Nope it's not.

However, the Bengals and Palmer are much more suited to run an offense that passes to open the run. The Bengals HAVE the ability to get teams down early if Palmer is given the chance to run a hurry up offense. Once the Bengals soften the opponents secondary with Palmer and the receivers, Benson can absolutely run wild on most NFL defenses no problem.

Can Brat see this? It seems pretty clear to me that Palmer is MUCH more effective running the plays in a high tempo style offense. He struggles with the huddle/short-intermediate timing routes. How much better does he look when given the chance to move in the pocket and let the receivers get open?

[HoosierCat]

Can Brat see this? It seems pretty clear to me that Palmer is MUCH more effective running the plays in a high tempo style offense. He struggles with the huddle/short-intermediate timing routes. How much better does he look when given the chance to move in the pocket and let the receivers get open?

I would go further and say it isn't as much up-tempo as it is simply calling the play, getting to the line and snapping the ball versus setting up one play + one run audible + one pass audible, going to the line, looking at the D, changing the play twice and getting blown for delay of game.

It's football, not rocket science. Quit overthinking the game and play. If the no huddle makes that easier, by all means, run it more.

[Stripes]

Our offensive line may suck right now, but Jay Cutler has been sacked nine times in the first half.

[cincyhokie]

Can Brat see this? It seems pretty clear to me that Palmer is MUCH more effective running the plays in a high tempo style offense. He struggles with the huddle/short-intermediate timing routes. How much better does he look when given the chance to move in the pocket and let the receivers get open?

I would go further and say it isn't as much up-tempo as it is simply calling the play, getting to the line and snapping the ball versus setting up one play + one run audible + one pass audible, going to the line, looking at the D, changing the play twice and getting blown for delay of game.

It's football, not rocket science. Quit overthinking the game and play. If the no huddle makes that easier, by all means, run it more.

It isn't rocket science. When the offense takes less time by not calling audibles as much they play faster. They play more effectively and look smoother.

[HoosierCat]

Our offensive line may suck right now, but Jay Cutler has been sacked nine times in the first half.

I just saw that. Insane.

[cincyhokie]

I think what he's saying is that it's extremely hard for Brat to prepare the gameplan to the teams strengths.

While I'm not impressed with Brat either, looking at today's game I don't think any offensive game plan is likely to look good after three turnovers. And if the Bengals don't gift the ball to the Browns multiple times, we're probably celebrating a 23-14 or so victory right now.

That's the way I feel. I'm just stoked Palmer finally woke up for major yardage.

Yep. I would say that his knee is fine, his elbow is fine, and his hand is fine. When given the right offensive play calling and style of offense, he's the same QB he's always been.

[HoosierCat]

Our offensive line may suck right now, but Jay Cutler has been sacked nine times in the first half.

I just saw that. Insane.

Looks like it's Todd Collins time!

(and people complain about Palmer...)

[HoosierCat]

Injury update 2: per Hobson Roy has an MCL injury, severity unknown but not repeat not thought season-ending.

[HoosierCat]

Our offensive line may suck right now, but Jay Cutler has been sacked nine times in the first half.

I just saw that. Insane.

Looks like it's Todd Collins time!

(and people complain about Palmer...)

So, Cutler gone with a concussion and Collins just got destroyed...Bears going to emergency 3rd QB...wow.

[Kazkal]

I'm at a loss of freaking words the browns? seriously? the team considered worst in the NFL Seriously? Well only brightside I can say is hopefully this loss will make some FREAKING CHANGE...rather then the it's okay we've been winning right?welll now we loss to the worst team in the NFL things need to change..Oline needs replacements coordinators and position coaches need be held accountable if their players aren 't getting it done...

My heart sank when a friend of mine told me the ending score...\sigh

[Stripes]

I don't think the Browns are the worst team in the NFL. They won their final four games last season (in very similar fashion to the Bengals' three game streak in 2008) and were very close in all three games against tough opponents this season prior to finally catching the mistake-proned Bengals at home. I'm obviously bothered that the Bengals finally lost a division game, but the Ravens win in Pittsburgh helps to soften the blow on that front.

The most frustrating thing is that the running game was at its worst when the passing game finally started clicking.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I don't think the Browns are the worst team in the NFL.

They were close until Payton Hillis walked out of heaven and into their backfield. After giving the Ravens a good game and beating the Bengals, the Brownies might end up surprisingly competitive.

Also, Seneca Wallace is a helluvalot better than Jake Delhomme. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Brownies end up 7-9 if they go with him full time.

[gregstephens]

Here's my question, and I don't think anyone else has mentioned it. With five minutes and change left in the game and down by 3, with less than your full compliment of time outs remaining and the Browns able to convert third downs better than you...why not go for it on that last punt? I mean, come on...lose by 3, lose by 10 worst case scenario, what's the dif? My opinion, since TO and Palmer and found a rare groove, go for it and at least fight for it.

[cincyhokie]

Dave Lapham on Sports Talk right now.

Talking about how the Bengals looked much smoother running the no-huddle. Makes a comment on how they used it all the way down to the red zone. Then asks why they went back to the huddle offense when they had the Browns back on their heels. Asks if it could possibly be "an ego thing" for Bratowski needing to have control of the play calling when close to the endzone. Lapham says he just "doesn't understand it. At all."

[membengal]

You go, Lap.

I have been on a self-imposed 24-hour away from bengals stuff period, and it has helped.

I have not read through all the threads yet, but I guess I will now to see if you all have talked about this, but, WTF on the "holding" call on Sims. That pretty much gave Cleveland the game there at the end. That is never called, and then when it IS called, isn't there usually, um, "holding"? The Bengals did plenty to lose that game, but the officials sure didn't help matters at various junctures.

[BengalByTheBay]

Here's my question, and I don't think anyone else has mentioned it. With five minutes and change left in the game and down by 3, with less than your full compliment of time outs remaining and the Browns able to convert third downs better than you...why not go for it on that last punt? I mean, come on...lose by 3, lose by 10 worst case scenario, what's the dif? My opinion, since TO and Palmer and found a rare groove, go for it and at least fight for it.

Are you talking about the Chad offensive interference on 3d down? I'm thinking that if the pass to Chad had just gone incomplete and it was like 4th & 3 or 4 (or something like that), they very well may have gone for it. As it was, the 10 yard penalty made it 3rd & 13(??) and (after the incompletion) 4th &13. 4th & 13 isn't a real favorable down at that point and I can't fault them for not going for it.

[cincyhokie]

More Lapham:

Talking to Marvin Lewis and asking him about the use of the no-huddle. Of course Marvin doesn't want to talk about it too much, for good reason. He does state that "he" uses it and doesn't use it depending on what situation "he" sees as best.

Interesting. I wonder if he is making that call or Brat is and he is just covering for Brat.

[ArmyBengal]

I made a comment in the Palmer thread and I've been thinking about it for a while now.

Last year, the had all the issues at TE. Kelly goes down, Coffman goes down, and Coats enters as the TE for the Bengals. They know this is a problem and make a great adjustment to the o-line, running jumbo packages and focusing on a running game behind a HUGE o-line that they knew lacked in their pass protection abilities.

This season, Kelly is back and they draft the best TE in Gresham. The jumbo package becomes a thing of the past with needing to account for a pass catching TE in their offensive scheme and the pass protection liability from last season rears it's ugly head. I think this is why the passing and running game are both suffering and I'm surprised this really wasn't talked about before this.

Likewise, if Carson is better working in an up-tempo offense, why not run it earlier and actually get the lead on a team and open up the running game ?? Again, it's not about us needing to simply run more, but realize this team has in fact shifted focus and are accounting for the TE position in a way they didn't last year.

I'm not even sure where they go from here, but I know the o-line is substandard with what it appears they are trying to do offensively.

Couple that with absolutely no pass rush in any shape, form, or fashion and I'm of the mindset that simply expects more of the same from this team. Some will be good and some will be not so good. I see a very frustrating remainder to the season with some high points and some low points unless they can somehow figure out the o-line and pass rush.

The penalties on Chad and Sims were BRUTAL...

On a positive, Carson and TO looked good.