Bengals vs Ravens post game discussion

[Stripes]

Has anyone else noticed that when the Bengals win, Joey Pong is no where to be seen?

He'll be here tomorrow. Don't expect a happy Pong though. Surely he'll choose one of Sunday's problems and claim he saw it coming before your infant grandfather could wipe his own ass.

[wpeldios]

, Kevin Huber has really been a let down to this point.

I know i'll be quoting more of thread but had to address this right away...

WTf you smoking man(no offense)? huber has been Great and leading the NFL he had one bad kick that was touched the ground at 15-10 yard range but simply took a bad bounce...Outside that one kick he has been perfectly fine.

The let down is due to his inability to pin teams inside the 20, which was supposed to be his specialty. If you would have read the rest I mentioned that exact point and also said id could be due to coaching. Fact of the matter is this year Huber has - punts inside the 20, 2 touchbacks. And last season he finished 2nd in the nfl in touchbacks, while finishing 17th in punts inside the 20. Also, watch again, that pun hit down at the 22ish and bounced backwards before being downed close to the 30. Add to that last year he finished 28th in net average.

Im not saying cut him, Im not saying he sucks, I am saying for a specialist at pinning people back he has struggled in that aspect of the game.

[wpeldios]

Oh yeah, one more thing... Hey TJ Douchemandzadeh, F*CK YOU !!!

Fixed.

I like "Houshmanocatches" myself...

Hey Tj is on pace for an impressive 8 catches for 216 yards this year. That will surely get him and his quarterback into the probowl.

F you tj!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Has anyone else noticed that when the Bengals win, Joey Pong is no where to be seen?

He'll be here tomorrow.

I sincerely doubt it. It doesn't fit his M.O.

[BengalPimp]

Has anyone else noticed that when the Bengals win, Joey Pong is no where to be seen?

He'll be here tomorrow.

I sincerely doubt it. It doesn't fit his M.O.

More of us, less of Joe Pong is a Good Thing!

[BengalPimp]

Oh yeah, one more thing... Hey TJ Douchemandzadeh, F*CK YOU !!!

Fixed.

I like "Houshmanocatches" myself...

Hey Tj is on pace for an impressive 8 catches for 216 yards this year. That will surely get him and his quarterback into the probowl.

F you tj!

Touraj should change his name to Tworecept...Oh wait, he needs to get Two receptions first....At this pace he should have his 2nd reception by game 4.

[membengal]

I am fine with the balance. Derek, I think you (and soon to be Hair) are simply wrong in decrying some shift in philosophy. They can't win long-term running it in a 60-40 split, their offense shriveled last year as the year went on doing that. I thought they stuck a nice balance yesterday in the approach.

That said, they simply need to find a way to throw it more effectively when they do throw it. Perhaps games against Carolina and Cleveland will help. Dunno. But there are too many weapons for as many miscues in the passing game as we are now used to as a fanbase.

[jjakq27]

Ray-ray's postgame comments on how the Ravens lost. Whaaa...fkn...whaaa!!!!!

It looks like all of your macho-bully BS has bitten you and your team in the ass once again. You reap what you sow MFer. You still haven't learned a thing.

"I don't think I want to be politically correct right here. I want to be honest," Lewis said. "Honest is you put six points on the [darn]board by people doing their jobs. We laugh about it so much [about] quarterbacks getting all of this protection. I get tired of whining about quarterbacks. [but] Terrell can't stop in midair and pull up on Carson after he still has the ball."

Lewis added, "You always try to be careful because the league always tries to fine you. But there are so many rules that take away from the game. I get blocked into the player and you tell me that I tripped this man, but this man fell over my feet. There's too much crying from them. You already make the big money. Keep your big money. But don't cry when you step on the football field. That's war out there. If you want to go at it, go at it hard. But don't disrespect the game like that."

/>http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-ray-lewis-0920-20100919,0,2129276.story

[Sea Ray]

What do you all make of Ray Lewis' whining about the officiating? I agree with him on one and I agree with the officials on the other.

1) The tripping call against Ray was correct. He raised his leg to trip Carson and that's against the rules. I think that's a silly rule, but it is in the rulebook so the ref was right to call it. I think you should be able to trip a guy in order to tackle him...that is the object of the defense isn't it? But Ray's gripe is with the rulebook, not the ref

2) The roughing call in the 4th qtr after Carson threw a pass was horrible. There was no way the defender could have stopped. He hit Carson a split second after the throw. Ridiculous call. About time we get one of those...

[membengal]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

[jjakq27]

And as for TJ, I have a great deal of respect for him as a competitor and he was part of the group that helped bring this team out of the trash heap and made them relevant once again. However, he chose to make career move out of here and he should hold no bitterness towards the team. Maybe he felt like he got low-balled but this team kept him in 2003 even though he was injured. I believe the resigned him after the 2004(?) season when they could have let him walk. So I'm not sure why he says he hates the organization. I think they did pretty good by him.

[Sea Ray]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

What was wrong with the tripping call?

[gregstephens]

I am fine with the balance. Derek, I think you (and soon to be Hair) are simply wrong in decrying some shift in philosophy. They can't win long-term running it in a 60-40 split, their offense shriveled last year as the year went on doing that. I thought they stuck a nice balance yesterday in the approach.

That said, they simply need to find a way to throw it more effectively when they do throw it. Perhaps games against Carolina and Cleveland will help. Dunno. But there are too many weapons for as many miscues in the passing game as we are now used to as a fanbase.

The bold-faced is the only place I disagree here. Palmer should in fact have terrific games with Palmer-like numbers against the Panthers and Browns of the world. To me, that only masks a problem, not corrects it. It's getting very difficult to have confidence in Palmer until he has a big time game against a defense like New England or the Ravens, which really aren't even elite either.

Granted, he got the chance to put up good numbers in the second half of the Pats game. I don't know if the Pats defense switched in to prevent mode, or if the Bengals switched in to two-minute mode, or a combo of both. He also could have put up bigger numbers against the Ravens if Batman and Robin had been wearing Clifford Franklin's elephant goo. All that aside, at some point, Palmer's going to have to crank out a slaughter house game against a defense with a reputation, for the sake of his confidence more so than ours.

[membengal]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

What was wrong with the tripping call?

Maybe it's strict liability penalty, and, if so, it was a good call, but if it's not strict liability I didn't think Lewis had one iota of intent to trip Palmer. Just happenstance. Didn't think it should have been flagged.

[jjakq27]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

What was wrong with the tripping call?

Ray is saying that he was blocked down by Benson and Carson tripped over his leg while he layed on the ground. However, if you watch it again, Lewis lifted his other leg up slightly which is what the ref must have seen.

As for the roughing the passer, it looked similar to the play four years ago against TB when Justin Smith was called for the same thing. The ref said that it appeared that Suggs added his weight or drove Carson down which is why he got flagged.

Again, if they want to intimidate people, they need to expect that the refs are going to be ultra-sensitive to it.

[membengal]

I am fine with the balance. Derek, I think you (and soon to be Hair) are simply wrong in decrying some shift in philosophy. They can't win long-term running it in a 60-40 split, their offense shriveled last year as the year went on doing that. I thought they stuck a nice balance yesterday in the approach.

That said, they simply need to find a way to throw it more effectively when they do throw it. Perhaps games against Carolina and Cleveland will help. Dunno. But there are too many weapons for as many miscues in the passing game as we are now used to as a fanbase.

The bold-faced is the only place I disagree here. Palmer should in fact have terrific games with Palmer-like numbers against the Panthers and Browns of the world. To me, that only masks a problem, not corrects it. It's getting very difficult to have confidence in Palmer until he has a big time game against a defense like New England or the Ravens, which really aren't even elite either.

Granted, he got the chance to put up good numbers in the second half of the Pats game. I don't know if the Pats defense switched in to prevent mode, or if the Bengals switched in to two-minute mode, or a combo of both. He also could have put up bigger numbers against the Ravens if Batman and Robin had been wearing Clifford Franklin's elephant goo. All that aside, at some point, Palmer's going to have to crank out a slaughter house game against a defense with a reputation, for the sake of his confidence more so than ours.

Not sure where we are disagreeing, Greg. He needs to be good against those teams. He better be, or this team is going nowhere. But I am not 100% sure he will be.

[wpeldios]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

What was wrong with the tripping call?

Maybe it's strict liability penalty, and, if so, it was a good call, but if it's not strict liability I didn't think Lewis had one iota of intent to trip Palmer. Just happenstance. Didn't think it should have been flagged.

Its like the face mask penalty. Most guys dont intend to do it, but if you whip your legs around at all it is a penalty. Why doesnt Ray man up and stop letting Benson knock him on his back like that and quit whining about the officials.

[gregstephens]

I am fine with the balance. Derek, I think you (and soon to be Hair) are simply wrong in decrying some shift in philosophy. They can't win long-term running it in a 60-40 split, their offense shriveled last year as the year went on doing that. I thought they stuck a nice balance yesterday in the approach.

That said, they simply need to find a way to throw it more effectively when they do throw it. Perhaps games against Carolina and Cleveland will help. Dunno. But there are too many weapons for as many miscues in the passing game as we are now used to as a fanbase.

The bold-faced is the only place I disagree here. Palmer should in fact have terrific games with Palmer-like numbers against the Panthers and Browns of the world. To me, that only masks a problem, not corrects it. It's getting very difficult to have confidence in Palmer until he has a big time game against a defense like New England or the Ravens, which really aren't even elite either.

Granted, he got the chance to put up good numbers in the second half of the Pats game. I don't know if the Pats defense switched in to prevent mode, or if the Bengals switched in to two-minute mode, or a combo of both. He also could have put up bigger numbers against the Ravens if Batman and Robin had been wearing Clifford Franklin's elephant goo. All that aside, at some point, Palmer's going to have to crank out a slaughter house game against a defense with a reputation, for the sake of his confidence more so than ours.

Not sure where we are disagreeing, Greg. He needs to be good against those teams. He better be, or this team is going nowhere. But I am not 100% sure he will be.

And I'm not sure we're really disagreeing either. Perhaps shouldn't have worded that that strongly. I think we are both of the thought that Palmer should have good games here. If he doesn't, we'd probably both concede there is a real issue with Palmer, assuming the Drop Bros. don't skew the statistical results. However, I won't look at good games by Palmer against those two teams as a sign the ship is righted. I think the fanbase could see a good stat game by Palmer in isolation and say, "See, there's nothing wrong with Palmer." I'd just reserve judgment at this point until there is a constant increase in Palmer's play.

All I was saying.

[derekshank]

They can't win long-term running it in a 60-40 split, their offense shriveled last year as the year went on doing that. I thought they stuck a nice balance yesterday in the approach.

Funny. The only times they have ever had a 60-40 split were in games that they won.

The balance in play calling has always been there. Last year, the problem was in execution, not in philosophy. The new weapons should allow last years plan to be that much more effective. Instead, we see them show a pass formation on most plays, and the running game suffers as a result.

[membengal]

Yes, but that is probably 60-40 in games where they are up and running clock late. Did that happen yesterday? No? Then let's be real here.

There is no good reason the running game should suffer if their passing game is effective. And if they do what they should in three wides, then there will be plenty of lanes for Ced to run through. I just think your focus is off. Agree to disagree with you and Hair on this point, and have for some weeks now.

[Sea Ray]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

What was wrong with the tripping call?

Ray is saying that he was blocked down by Benson and Carson tripped over his leg while he layed on the ground. However, if you watch it again, Lewis lifted his other leg up slightly which is what the ref must have seen.

As for the roughing the passer, it looked similar to the play four years ago against TB when Justin Smith was called for the same thing. The ref said that it appeared that Suggs added his weight or drove Carson down which is why he got flagged.

Again, if they want to intimidate people, they need to expect that the refs are going to be ultra-sensitive to it.

I don't see the similarity with the J Smith call. Justin actually sacked the QB while he had the ball and the ref didn't like how the QB hit the ground. In this case Carson released the ball and was hit. When you sack a guy, hitting the ground is kinda part of the deal...

[membengal]

They were not good calls. But they are not why Baltimore lost. And I missed Lewis' whining about how the Bengals did not get the calls when the Ravens line held all game, or the PIs that were not called against the Ravens.

What was wrong with the tripping call?

Maybe it's strict liability penalty, and, if so, it was a good call, but if it's not strict liability I didn't think Lewis had one iota of intent to trip Palmer. Just happenstance. Didn't think it should have been flagged.

Its like the face mask penalty. Most guys dont intend to do it, but if you whip your legs around at all it is a penalty. Why doesnt Ray man up and stop letting Benson knock him on his back like that and quit whining about the officials.

If that's the case, then I guess it wasn't a bad call. Altho I get why Lewis is pissed. But that's not why the Ravens lost that game, regardless.

[derekshank]

Yes, but that is probably 60-40 in games where they are up and running clock late. Did that happen yesterday? No? Then let's be real here.

Agreed. But the Bengals were sporting a lead late in the game, and continued to put 3WR sets out there.

Just take a look at their play calling in their last two drives. 3 rushes an 5 incomplete passes. They managed to only take 2:43 combined off the clock in those two drives... forcing the defense to win the game late - TWICE. If you want to throw the ball out of a 3WR formation on 3rd and long in that situation, I get it. But at that point in the game, you should be trying to run down the clock... but instead the Bengals repeatedly stopped the clock with incomplete passes.

There is no good reason the running game should suffer if their passing game is effective. And if they do what they should in three wides, then there will be plenty of lanes for Ced to run through. I just think your focus is off. Agree to disagree with you and Hair on this point, and have for some weeks now.

No good reason against the Panthers and Browns perhaps. But against the Ravens you simply can't expect a good rushing attack from a passing formation. At least not a consistent one.

You are certainly within your rights to disagree with me. But I don't see how anyone can think the Bengals can continue to run the ball well with that gameplan. Sure, they will throw better against the weaker teams... but the running game will never look as dominant as it did last year out of a passing formation.

The Ravens game is the type of game that makes Marvin and Brat look foolish when they say this is a run first team. It clearly isn't.

[membengal]

Derek, I just don't think the Bengals run the ball well enough to do what you want them to do and, oh, say, win a Super Bowl. They will need to have a good passing game to go with the strong running game, and I think that's what they are trying to find. Hopefully the next few weeks will give them some success on both fronts.

As for the play-calling on the 12-10 drive when they started on the 11...I was rips**t myself. But then again, that was two runs for four yards and then a flat pass that was nowhere near the end zone. So, they did run the ball there. And not well.

[derekshank]

Derek, I just don't think the Bengals run the ball well enough to do what you want them to do and, oh, say, win a Super Bowl. They will need to have a good passing game to go with the strong running game, and I think that's what they are trying to find. Hopefully the next few weeks will give them some success on both fronts.

Running the ball was the only thing they did well last year. And the only reason they didn't do it well enough to win the Super Bowl was because they lacked the weapons to keep the defenses honest. Now they have the weapons, but because of the formations they prefer, they now appear to lack the running game.

As for the play-calling on the 12-10 drive when they started on the 11...I was rips**t myself. But then again, that was two runs for four yards and then a flat pass that was nowhere near the end zone. So, they did run the ball there. And not well.

The one that really made me mad was the drive before that. 3 incomplete passes to 1 run.

As for the drive you are describing... if I recall correctly, Shipley was on the field for both rushing attempts.