Time to get some new people in the Med Staff

[Dadraftnick]

It seems to me that,its about time that,the Bengals re-vamp their entire medical staff.

The most recent problems include the signing of WR Antinio Bryant to a major free agent contract and it is standard practice to give that guy a physical before the contract becomes valid.

So, Bryant was passed by the Bengals medical staff ,practiced a handfull of non- hitting days and came up lame-undoubtedly from his pre-exisiting condition.

Then, there is the way the drafting and injury of Andre Smith was handled.

Smith pulls up lame after his first day of practice -after he had passed his physical.

It seems at least more likely that Smith had hurt his foot BEFORE his first practice or even before the draft.

Its not only the way his unjury was handled its that he was cleared to play last year - why didnt the medical staff and trainers keep up with Smith to make sure he was in shape and not over weight as the season grew nearer?

Then there in the number of players we have drafted that have been cleared to draft that have had problems that the staff should have caught.

There was the CB from WVU that we drafted in the 2nd round that blew out his knee in his 1st play of his 1st game. -and never played again.

They didnt find the Stenosis of Eddie Brown until after he had played for years.

Last year,Chase Coffman was cleared to draft and "passed" his physical only to discover that he needed further medical attention.

I could go on and on but, it is very frustrating to see your team always seem to have one of the highest numbers of players out and have it affect your play-off chances.

For one they need to check their players more completely before they draft them and before they sign them to a free agent contract.

And they need a medical staff that will stress things that prevent injuries such as more stretching ect.

This is football and guys get hurt but, it seems that the Bengals staff make more than their share of mistakes and have not given Marvin a plan to keep his players healthy and reduce injuries.

I remember an interview with the Ravens about the draft, they had not cleared 4 of the top 6 TE's in the draft so, they felt there was medical concerns about those guys and took them off their boards or lowered their draft value.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It seems at least more likely that Smith had hurt his foot BEFORE his first practice or even before the draft.

I've been wondering about that since he hurt it. Seemed awfully odd that he developed a stress fracture - generally a repetition-based injury - in about 5 minutes. I posted about it back then. I think the general consensus (or at least the vocal one) was that I was nuts, and that Andre couldn't practice on a busted foot. I'd retort that DeMarcus Ware *played* with one, and that Andre probably didn't do much before claiming he'd just broken his foot.

Either way, Andre is a shining example of the Bengals getting totally burned on a guy that 31 other teams could tell was a loser. The med staff may be part to blame, but there was enough available info to convince anyone sane that he was a head case.

[Kazkal]

Either way, Andre is a shining example of the Bengals getting totally burned on a guy that 31 other teams could tell was a loser. The med staff may be part to blame, but there was enough available info to convince anyone sane that he was a head case.

Oh so you know every one else in 1st rnd would have passed on him? not a lovely start but the guy is in his 2nd year still can pan out right for us.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Either way, Andre is a shining example of the Bengals getting totally burned on a guy that 31 other teams could tell was a loser. The med staff may be part to blame, but there was enough available info to convince anyone sane that he was a head case.

Oh so you know every one else in 1st rnd would have passed on him? not a lovely start but the guy is in his 2nd year still can pan out right for us.

I'd wager that 31 teams would have passed at the number 6 spot (even Al Davis, if only because of his love affair with WR). You can go read stories from around that time. GMs won't go on the record before the draft, but it was widely reported that he was off of many teams' boards alltogether. It was also widely reported that the Bengals would draft him because they are who they are.

I'd put a large sum of money that this guy will never produce as expected from a tackle drafted #6 overall. Yes, it's his 2nd year and he hasn't yet shown up to work in shape, let alone ready to play football. What's the best case, that sometime halfway through his contract he decides to act like a pro?

Drafting him was a mistake, and it's a mistake that was easily seen coming.

[HairOnFire]

Drafting him was a mistake, and it's a mistake that was easily seen coming.

Perhaps you should send the Bengals a copy of your resume?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Drafting him was a mistake, and it's a mistake that was easily seen coming.

Perhaps you should send the Bengals a copy of your resume?

Sorry, I don't want to do what it would take to get the GM job. Your description of Katie Blackburn is still seared into my memory. I don't think I could wake up to that. Not even the right to drive the company Lumina could make up for it.

In seriousness, it's not as if it took a genius to figure out that this was not the sort of kid you want to hand a lot of guaranteed money to. Yes, I said that then. So did pretty much everybody connected to the league.

[HairOnFire]

Drafting him was a mistake, and it's a mistake that was easily seen coming.

Perhaps you should send the Bengals a copy of your resume?

Sorry, I don't want to do what it would take to get the GM job.

Why not apply for the position of team doctor? You're just as qualified for that job as you are for GM.

[Stripes]

If you do submit a resume, Dadraftnick, try to refrain from your habitual line breaks between every sentence.

[COB]

Either way, Andre is a shining example of the Bengals getting totally burned on a guy that 31 other teams could tell was a loser.

It's not over yet. He could get healthy, in shape, then produce as advertised. Many guys don't get it for a year or two, especially fat guys who have to break life-long dietary habits. (I made that last part up).

[COB]

I'd put a large sum of money that this guy will never produce as expected from a tackle drafted #6 overall.

I watched Andre when he was in the Eagles game. True, he committed penalties, whiffed on pass blocking a couple times, and looked woefully out of shape.

He also looked amazing on some running plays, drive-blocking defensive linemen several yards downfield. Take all the 5th rounders and free-agents you want, condition them all you want, hang their Eagle Scout Certificates on your wall, they still will never be able to shove NFL linemen 4 yards backwards. In that sense, you've already seen Andre play like a number 6 pick. I agree he's raw, but there's a f**king monster in there.

[blueridge]

It seems to me that,its about time that,the Bengals re-vamp their entire medical staff.

The most recent problems include the signing of WR Antinio Bryant to a major free agent contract and it is standard practice to give that guy a physical before the contract becomes valid.

So, Bryant was passed by the Bengals medical staff ,practiced a handfull of non- hitting days and came up lame-undoubtedly from his pre-exisiting condition.

Then, there is the way the drafting and injury of Andre Smith was handled.

Smith pulls up lame after his first day of practice -after he had passed his physical.

It seems at least more likely that Smith had hurt his foot BEFORE his first practice or even before the draft.

Its not only the way his unjury was handled its that he was cleared to play last year - why didnt the medical staff and trainers keep up with Smith to make sure he was in shape and not over weight as the season grew nearer?

Then there in the number of players we have drafted that have been cleared to draft that have had problems that the staff should have caught.

There was the CB from WVU that we drafted in the 2nd round that blew out his knee in his 1st play of his 1st game. -and never played again.

They didnt find the Stenosis of Eddie Brown until after he had played for years.

Last year,Chase Coffman was cleared to draft and "passed" his physical only to discover that he needed further medical attention.

I could go on and on but, it is very frustrating to see your team always seem to have one of the highest numbers of players out and have it affect your play-off chances.

For one they need to check their players more completely before they draft them and before they sign them to a free agent contract.

And they need a medical staff that will stress things that prevent injuries such as more stretching ect.

This is football and guys get hurt but, it seems that the Bengals staff make more than their share of mistakes and have not given Marvin a plan to keep his players healthy and reduce injuries.

I remember an interview with the Ravens about the draft, they had not cleared 4 of the top 6 TE's in the draft so, they felt there was medical concerns about those guys and took them off their boards or lowered their draft value.

A WHOLE LOT of uninformed speculation. You have no insight into the team's decision-making, but seem to have all the answers.Your examples are flawed. Smith broke his foot in practice. Are you seriously suggesting that they would allow this guy to come in and practice on a broken foot after giving him 21 million dollars guaranteed? Charles Fisher, the CB from WVU, was outstanding in training camp until he tore the hell out of his knee. That s**t happens in the NFL. Chase Coffman had a bad wheel coming out of college-everyone knew it, and that's why he dropped into the very end of the 3rd round. The basic problem with your whole premise is the false proposition that the Bengals have a greater player injury problem than other teams.That's nonsense. Open your eyes. Every team struggles with player injuries, and its a league-wide concern. Pro football is a brutal sport.Period. Look around the league. Every team. You say the Bengals make more mistakes than others, impugn the professional competence of their medical staff,and suggest that somehow the team is causing players to get injured. All ridiculous assumptions that you cannot possibly substantiate.Get a grip.I think you're really overreacting to the Bryant situation. Every training camp someone comes on this board and starts whining about injuries as if the Bengals have a more acute injury problem than the rest of the league.Like every other year, that's simply not true.By the way, don't hold out the Ravens as having the answer to the player injury bug.In 2008 and 2009 the Ravens had more players on IR than the Bengals. Currently, they are dealing with a really serious plague of injured players in their defensive backfield.Their 3rd round pick from last year,Ladarius Webb, has not played a down yet.Their 5th rounder, Jason Phillips, injured his knee in college, missed last season and is on his way out of the league.Ed Reed suffers from chronic injury problems.Jared Gaither, too. Once Sergio Kindle's skull heals, he still has a chronic knee problem to overcome. That's just a partial injury rundown from a single team. Pick any other team, and the situation is largely the same.The Bengals are no worse off than other teams.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, compare any of the OT's taken at the top of the round along with Big Dre'. Even if they have gotten snaps, there's not one that stands out that would make them worth the money. Oher, taken later in the round has been the best of the group to this point.

Coffman not getting hurt at the end of his college season (which the Bengals knew about) qould have equaled him not falling anywhere close to the 3rd round, let alone the bottom of it. My money is he would have gone at the upper end of the 2nd, if not the bottom of the first. I mean, he was the best pass catching TE in the hostory of college. Does he need work with blocking ?? Sure, but they were aware of that as well. They fully expected him to have a learning season to start with, so no harm no foul. That's why he's not getting cut either.

The rest ?? Blah, injuries happen and I have no earthly idea how the organization goes about their business.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Why not apply for the position of team doctor? You're just as qualified for that job as you are for GM.

Hey, don't be pissed because you were all over this guy before the draft and he's punking you now. Passive aggressive looks bad on you. Almost as bad as that hat you got at 7-11.

Doctor? No thanks. $200k of debt to write prescriptions didn't sound like an interesting career.

[HairOnFire]

Hey, don't be pissed because you were all over this guy before the draft and he's punking you now.

Well if he's punking me then just imagine how the members of the Outland trophy committee must feel?

Passive aggressive looks bad on you.

And self-serving back slapping looks bad on you....especially when your silly claim that no other team in the NFL would have drafted Smith in the 1st round is both empty and safe to make since there's no possible way to test your ravings.

Almost as bad as that hat you got at 7-11.

I wonder if your critique of a hat you've never seen has something to do with the fear of a black hat I've heard so much about? Regardless, I'm currently looking for a decorative orange feather that should set things off very nicely. After that, I'll start looking for a giant pair of black-framed Urkle glasses. Finally, if the Bengals make it to the Super Bowl I might demonstrate my support by shaving my head.

Doctor? No thanks. $200k of debt to write prescriptions didn't sound like an interesting career.

You seem to be admitting there's a limit to how much you're willing to invest in yourself.

Good call.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Well if he's punking me then just imagine how the members of the Outland trophy committee must feel?

Right, because he'd be the first guy whose college success didn't translate to the pros. We'll hire you as GM and draft Eric Crouch as our Heisman-winning QB. For Fat Andre, it was pretty easy to see that the kid was a lazy head-case after he got away from Saban, and he still is. No surprise. Hey, I hope he decides to get his life in shape - we could use a good RT.

And self-serving back slapping looks bad on you....especially when your silly claim that no other team in the NFL would have drafted Smith in the 1st round is both empty and safe to make since there's no possible way to test your ravings.

To clarify, I said no other team would take him at #6, not the first round. I bet I'd have taken him at 32, at some point the risk would match the potential reward. Reedin ees fun-de-metnal! And you're damn right I'm gonna crow after the amount of junk you talked before the draft. And if chubby drops a few cup sizes and decides to play football, you can return the favor.

Doctor? No thanks. $200k of debt to write prescriptions didn't sound like an interesting career.

You seem to be admitting there's a limit to how much you're willing to invest in yourself.

Good call.

Barking up the wrong tree there, Charlie, I topped out in the school department - just not med school. Being a doctor had no appeal for me because they don't seem to be taught to actually think for themselves enough. They seem to be technicians, and frankly my mechanic does a better job at diagnostic problem solving than any doctor I've encountered. I don't have much esteem for the ones I've known, apologies to any who match that description.

That goes double for the morons the Bengals seem to hire.

[HairOnFire]

To clarify, I said no other team would take him at #6, not the first round.

If possible that's even more pointless, and just as impossible to test.

I bet I'd have taken him at 32, at some point the risk would match the potential reward.

But if he busts you'd look almost as stupid, wouldn't you? So all you're really doing is bragging about how you would have drafted the same bust if you had a later pick. And you would have made that pick based upon Smith's college career, right? The very same career that impressed me enough to think him worthy of the #6 overall pick.

And you're damn right I'm gonna crow after the amount of junk you talked before the draft. And if chubby drops a few cup sizes and decides to play football, you can return the favor.

Well if nothing else that explains why you're always so quick to pre-bunch your panties about almost everything instead of waiting to see what actually happens. After all, if you actually wait for results you might miss a chance to slap yourself on the back....which seems pretty important to you.

Being a doctor had no appeal for me because they don't seem to be taught to actually think for themselves enough.

Seems to me you your biggest problem wasn't the profession itself but rather....how you had no confidence in your abilities to be better than average. Not that it matters much. Because no matter how you spin it things still boil down to you not being qualified to offer a medical opinion.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

But if he busts you'd look almost as stupid, wouldn't you? So all you're really doing is bragging about how you would have drafted the same bust if you had a later pick. And you would have made that pick based upon Smith's college career, right? The very same career that impressed me enough to think him worthy of the #6 overall pick.

The upside is the same and the price is cheaper. I'd say that's Econ 101 except it would be remedial, so more like Econ 001 at an online college.

Well if nothing else that explains why you're always so quick to pre-bunch your panties about almost everything instead of waiting to see what actually happens. After all, if you actually wait for results you might miss a chance to slap yourself on the back....which seems pretty important to you.

Well, I'm sure we can all just wait for everything to happen, slack-jawed and drooling in front of the tee-vee. But we wouldn't need a message board for that, would we?

Seems to me you your biggest problem wasn't the profession itself but rather....how you had no confidence in your abilities to be better than average. Not that it matters much. Because no matter how you spin it things still boil down to you not being qualified to offer a medical opinion.

You gotta stop practicing armchair psychology without a license, you suck at it. Let's put it this way - getting into med school ain't exactly hard, and I helped a number of folks with the MCAT. If I'd have wanted to be a doctor, I'd have been a doctor. Like I said before, writing prescriptions all day, doing the same thing day in and out, doesn't seem even remotely fun.

Ultimately, the point would be that the idiots the Bengals hire don't seem qualified to give a medical opinion, either. And I do know that signing a guy with a f***ed up knee (Bryant) to top dollar is pretty stupid, to say nothing of Andre the Hut.

[HairOnFire]

But if he busts you'd look almost as stupid, wouldn't you? So all you're really doing is bragging about how you would have drafted the same bust if you had a later pick. And you would have made that pick based upon Smith's college career, right? The very same career that impressed me enough to think him worthy of the #6 overall pick.

The upside is the same and the price is cheaper.

Sure, but you're still picking the same player based upon the same college career. So for all of your back slapping all you're doing is saying you would have made the same mistake later in the draft if you could have found a way to move down. That's hardly worthy of back slapping in my opinion, but you seem willing...so have at it.

If I'd have wanted to be a doctor, I'd have been a doctor. Like I said before, writing prescriptions all day, doing the same thing day in and out, doesn't seem even remotely fun.

Perhaps, but just because it's more fun for you to give a medical opinion of a player you've never met on an internet message board...your level of increased joy doesn't make your opinion any more qualified than that of a barber or janitor.

Ultimately, the point would be that the idiots the Bengals hire don't seem qualified to give a medical opinion, either.

First, you're remarkably unqualified to make that determination. Second, you're history of pre-bunching is based firmly upon your willingness to made unqualified determinations before the final results are known, right?

So what's all of that worth?

[HoosierCat]

Jeanty's agent claims the Bengals f**ked up on his injury, too.

/>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/08/30/83010-jeantys-agent-speaks-out-on-release/

[HairOnFire]

Jeanty's agent claims the Bengals f**ked up on his injury, too.

Sounds like the player and his agent f**ked up as well. Because IMHO there's no reason for any NFL player not to get a second medical opinion....especially when the team is obligated to pay for it. To that end, Jeanty apparently accepted the Bengals initial diagnosis without complaint for at least two full months.

Fast forward.

Jeanty then signed his FA tender with the Bengals immediately after the Dolphins medical staff failed to pass him after a physical. The Dolphins primary medical concern is with Jeanty's ankle, not the fibula he broke during the playoff game. They refuse to make a contract offer....so Jeanty can't leave the Bengals in free agency, as he desires. With few options left he quickly returns to the Bengals and signs his tender, thereby obligating the Bengals to pay for his ankle surgery, which the Bengals may have still believed he did not need. Finally, the article admits Jeanty didn't rehab with the Bengals...preferring to stay in Florida until very recently. Granted, he attends OTA's and training camp, but he's only been practicing for a week or so, leaving little time to evaluate his condition. But clearly Jeanty and his agent believed they had much more time to rehab because they were targeting the PUP list, not the active roster.

Big mistake.

Just playing devils advocate here, but Jeanty may have been cut for no other reason than because he chose a medical treatment that the team did not agree with, may not agree with even now, and one that brought with it an extended rehab period that the team feels may not have been required. And because he wasn't rehabbing with the team they may have felt less inclined to continue paying for additional medical treatment....especially knowing he would be out at least six additional weeks at best, and possibly the entire season at worst. Not to mention how Jeanty probably wasn't going to be a Bengal next season regardless.

[volcom69]

Jeanty's agent claims the Bengals f**ked up on his injury, too.

/>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/08/30/83010-jeantys-agent-speaks-out-on-release/

Horrible the Bengals really need to look at the guys that they have. Sounds like they arnt making to many guys happy these days. Either he is just mad that he got relesed, or the Medical staff really screwed him. The way things are going i think the Bengals have a very poor staff on hand. I feel bad for Jeanty though, i hope he makes a full recovery.

I think anyone get injuried here should really ask to seek a second opinion!

[Kazkal]

Jeanty's agent claims the Bengals f**ked up on his injury, too.

Sounds like the player and his agent f**ked up as well. Because IMHO there's no reason for any NFL player not to get a second medical opinion....especially when the team is obligated to pay for it. To that end, Jeanty apparently accepted the Bengals initial diagnosis without complaint for at least two full months.

Fast forward.

Jeanty then signed his FA tender with the Bengals immediately after the Dolphins medical staff failed to pass him after a physical. The Dolphins primary medical concern is with Jeanty's ankle, not the fibula he broke during the playoff game. They refuse to make a contract offer....so Jeanty can't leave the Bengals in free agency, as he desires. With few options left he quickly returns to the Bengals and signs his tender, thereby obligating the Bengals to pay for his ankle surgery, which the Bengals may have still believed he did not need. Finally, the article admits Jeanty didn't rehab with the Bengals...preferring to stay in Florida until very recently. Granted, he attends OTA's and training camp, but he's only been practicing for a week or so, leaving little time to evaluate his condition. But clearly Jeanty and his agent believed they had much more time to rehab because they were targeting the PUP list, not the active roster.

Big mistake.

Just playing devils advocate here, but Jeanty may have been cut for no other reason than because he chose a medical treatment that the team did not agree with, may not agree with even now, and one that brought with it an extended rehab period that the team feels may not have been required. And because he wasn't rehabbing with the team they may have felt less inclined to continue paying for additional medical treatment....especially knowing he would be out at least six additional weeks at best, and possibly the entire season at worst. Not to mention how Jeanty probably wasn't going to be a Bengal next season regardless.

hmmm seems a reasonable way to look at it.

[HoosierCat]

Jeanty's agent claims the Bengals f**ked up on his injury, too.

Sounds like the player and his agent f**ked up as well. Because IMHO there's no reason for any NFL player not to get a second medical opinion

No argument.

Jeanty then signed his FA tender with the Bengals immediately after the Dolphins medical staff failed to pass him after a physical. The Dolphins primary medical concern is with Jeanty's ankle, not the fibula he broke during the playoff game.

True, but that only brings up the question of whether the Bengals missed yet another problem.

Just playing devils advocate here, but Jeanty may have been cut for no other reason than because he chose a medical treatment that the team did not agree with, may not agree with even now, and one that brought with it an extended rehab period that the team feels may not have been required.

Again, true, but given the Bengals' increasingly questionable history of correctly diagnosing injuries, it's getting harder to grant them the benefit of the doubt.

[COB]

I was fuming after I read Jeanty's agents accusations. Hair's counterpoint brought it a little more into perspective.

I can't be objective because I loved watching Jeanty play, and the thought that negligence (Bengals doctors' or his agent's) infuriates me.

In the final analysis, NFL football destroys human bodies. Thinking that diagnosis and treatment is a connect the dots process that can simply be implemented successfully every time is a fantasy. It's an imperfect science at best. For instance, who's to say the leg and ankle the Bengals doctors looked at was in the same condition when the Dolphins' doctors looked at it months later? It could have been damaged during rehab or training in the interim.

[HairOnFire]

Jeanty's agent claims the Bengals f**ked up on his injury, too.

Sounds like the player and his agent f**ked up as well. Because IMHO there's no reason for any NFL player not to get a second medical opinion

No argument.

Good, because everything that followed is a result of the player not taking advantage of the availability of almost unlimited medical second opinions to be paid for by the team that employed him when injured. That Jeanty didn't find a differing medical opinion until more than two full months later is his responsibility alone, and especially troubling if he had any previous misgivings about the competence of the medical staff or in the manner he was being treated by the Bengals front office staff.

True, but that only brings up the question of whether the Bengals missed yet another problem.

So how do you answer that question? The fact that Jeanty has now been cut gives no credence whatsoever to the Dolphins claim that additional ankle surgery was required. His injury was a broken fibula, right? For all we know the ankle surgery wasn't required and without it Jeanty may have recovered enough to practice and play. That said, we do know for certain the additional surgery was performed at the Bengals expense and dictated a lengthy rehab that Jeanty couldn't fully recover from in time to contribute at the start of the season. Thus, he's either going to be cut or placed on the PUP list....and it's not hard to guess how his agent is going to vote.

Again, true, but given the Bengals' increasingly questionable history of correctly diagnosing injuries, it's getting harder to grant them the benefit of the doubt.

But we never do.