Hall of Fame Game-August 8

[HairOnFire]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

[kingwilly]

Of course, as we all know, all of the above assumes that Bryant isn't PUPed, which looks more likely by the day.

I'm tired of posting this but I see some haven't gotten the memo.

Bryant cannot be PUPed because he passed his physical and practiced the first day. This makes him ineligible for PUP. This leaves IR for the year as the only option if he doesn't make the 53.

This does bring up an interesting quandry and an area where the Bengals have left themselves open to criticism. Why did they ever allow him to practice if they weren't sure about his knee? If they'd held him out of the full fledged practices that first day or two he'd be eligible for PUP now.

If he passed his physical then why would they hold him out?

I assume they didnt want to shelve him for 3 months.

Any word on Leonard? I read he feared torn ligaments. If so then the first game left me very worried.

Oline a revolving door which negates all WR talent.

Penalties

Backup QB's look like a waste of space. I really love the kneel down for a loss of two yards play. It would make me feel better if I would see one other team do it.

I hope Brat does a better job of playcalling. I know its vanilla preseason but Dallas looked 3x better.

But, Coffman catch, Simpson being open and a couple catches, Dline..there were positives.

Keep showcasing Matt Jones to get that 6th or 7th.

I dvr'd the game and watched it last night late.

Offense:

- Playcalls were expectedly bland.

- Benson is still a beast. Scott looked quick but had nothing to work with.

- Left side of the line, specifically Livings, has work to do. Whit held OK but was being pushed back, or chasing the edge often.

- Right side of the line was better, still not seeing how Roland is so substandard. Williams looks slow but clogs the hole. Center needs to show an upswing in anchoring the middle. Cook is about average. He can improve but we'll need to see it.

- Chad still making mental errors. Dip.

- Owens is a million times better running the same routes as Coles.

- Matt Jones is a mismatch problem, plain and simple. Too big for a CB, too fast for a LB. H

I thought Coffman moved and caught the ball well. He and Gresham could solidify the TE position for the next decade. What a nice thought.

Defense:

- First thing jumping out at me was Pacman can play well and make plays.

- Ghee looked good, if just a bit raw. I think they play too much soft coverage, IMHO.

- D-line was a strength. Lots of motors and talent. Peko, Atkins, Sims, Fanene, Tank, Odom, it is a good squad. Zimmer has a serious team.

- LB is quandary. Hodge flew around but also saw him out in coverage. He looks too slow to drop back and pick up a TE. Brandon Johnson and Michael Johnson could be the most important guys on that squad, in that they must make big plays when they are on the field. Dhani may know the scheme and lead well but he is another step slower.

- Roy Williams caused a nice fumble on a hit.

Rayner kicked the opening kick 5yrds deep. What a nice thing to see.

[HairOnFire]

Beyond the starters, I liked what I saw out of Tronzo at FB and Atkins at DT.

Huge props awarded for the Tronzo! mention. I haven't seen his name mentioned here or anywhere else for that matter but I thought he was very impressive. In fact, he threw a block in the 1st Quarter that can only be described as special, and far better than anything I've ever seen from my boy Vakapuna! Showed nice soft hands on a pass reception as well.

Tronzo!

[semiotter]

It was a pre-season game guys nothing to get worked up about!!! Geeeeez. Go Reds!!!

[Stripes]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

I was never terribly excited about him anyways, save for his improbable pre-injury performance last year. If his struggles mount, stick Fanene in there and keep a rotation flowing with Frostee and Dunlap. All gravy for me.

[Kazkal]

I'm abit worried but I do think Odom's value was abit overrated last year He's a good solid end but 5 out of 8 sacks came from one game and it wasn't from being a passrushing threat but being a hard worker and never giving up on a play...

[volcom69]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

I was never terribly excited about him anyways, save for his improbable pre-injury performance last year. If his struggles mount, stick Fanene in there and keep a rotation flowing with Frostee and Dunlap. All gravy for me.

Agree i think Fanene is a better pass rusher at this point, Odom looked slow and scared to play last night. That tackle man handled Odom and he not even a well known tackle. I dont know he just seemed scared and didnt want to play, not sure yet about him. This is what i was worried about, unless Zimmer blitzed last night the d-line was not getting pressure. Lets hope that it changes or just because it was the first preseason game it dosnt mean much. lol

[Kazkal]

Zimmer blitzed last night the d-line was not getting pressure. Lets hope that it changes or just because it was the first preseason game it dosnt mean much. lol

MJ with his hand down and Geno seemed to get after the QB just fine...I'd like to see Geno rotated on passing Downs vs 1st teamers see what he's really made of .

[volcom69]

Zimmer blitzed last night the d-line was not getting pressure. Lets hope that it changes or just because it was the first preseason game it dosnt mean much. lol

MJ with his hand down and Geno seemed to get after the QB just fine...I'd like to see Geno rotated on passing Downs vs 1st teamers see what he's really made of .

Oh i agree let Geno play with the first stringers and see what he has got.

[alleycat]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

From Hobson. Interesting...

"What did hold him out late last week was an illness he had even before camp, a stomach problem that drained 20 pounds off him.

He’s down to 260 but says he’s starting to put it back on. He thought that was a key for his success last year when he put on 25 pounds and checked in here at 280 pounds before playing at 275. He said it was a struggle for him in ’08 being so light, when he got as low as the 240s."

[volcom69]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

From Hobson. Interesting...

"What did hold him out late last week was an illness he had even before camp, a stomach problem that drained 20 pounds off him.

He’s down to 260 but says he’s starting to put it back on. He thought that was a key for his success last year when he put on 25 pounds and checked in here at 280 pounds before playing at 275. He said it was a struggle for him in ’08 being so light, when he got as low as the 240s."

Well i hope if he gains that weight back that he gets his push back. He was getting pushed all over the place!

[HairOnFire]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

From Hobson. Interesting...

"What did hold him out late last week was an illness he had even before camp, a stomach problem that drained 20 pounds off him.

He’s down to 260 but says he’s starting to put it back on. He thought that was a key for his success last year when he put on 25 pounds and checked in here at 280 pounds before playing at 275. He said it was a struggle for him in ’08 being so light, when he got as low as the 240s."

Crap.

I was really hoping my eyes were playing tricks on me about the weight loss, and tried calming myself by noting how there hadn't been anything written about him being smaller. But now....

Crap.

[alleycat]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

From Hobson. Interesting...

"What did hold him out late last week was an illness he had even before camp, a stomach problem that drained 20 pounds off him.

He’s down to 260 but says he’s starting to put it back on. He thought that was a key for his success last year when he put on 25 pounds and checked in here at 280 pounds before playing at 275. He said it was a struggle for him in ’08 being so light, when he got as low as the 240s."

Crap.

I was really hoping my eyes were playing tricks on me about the weight loss, and tried calming myself by noting how there hadn't been anything written about him being smaller. But now....

Crap.

Yeah, hard to imagine a guy putting 25 lbs back on during training camp. You can definitely lose a lot of "water weight" from a good stomach virus and make it back quick, but 25 lbs...

He definitely looked useless against the 'boys...

[HairOnFire]

Yeah, hard to imagine a guy putting 25 lbs back on during training camp. You can definitely lose a lot of "water weight" from a good stomach virus and make it back quick, but 25 lbs...

I won't fixate on the weight, but yeah....it's probably too late to get back were he was last season. The bigger concern for me was his lack of strength which hopefully will return as he recovers from illness.

All things considered....very mixed feelings. Because on one hand I was happy to see Odom show no sign of last seasons injury. On the other had he physically looked like a shell of himself.

[Kazkal]

Good Odom is fine.

No, he isn't.

Granted, he wasn't seriously injured on that play but just look at the guy. No power at all, and worse....no size.

From Hobson. Interesting...

"What did hold him out late last week was an illness he had even before camp, a stomach problem that drained 20 pounds off him.

He’s down to 260 but says he’s starting to put it back on. He thought that was a key for his success last year when he put on 25 pounds and checked in here at 280 pounds before playing at 275. He said it was a struggle for him in ’08 being so light, when he got as low as the 240s."

Wonder how many PBJ's he's eating this year.

[derekshank]

When Odom went down last year, his role as a DE was not all the difficult to replace. What wasn't able to be replicated was his role as an interior pass rusher. Zimmer was given two relatively early draft picks for that specific purpose (Dunlap and Atkins). In the event that Odom can't get back to where he was, it is far more possible to replace what he did simply because of the depth and talent of the roster as compared to last year.

Also, even if he gets back the 25lbs and is somehow even stronger than last season, I simply don't expect him to perform anywhere near the level he performed early last year. In fact, I believe that if he had avoided the injury altogether, his numbers would have come back to earth quite a bit... and people probably wouldn't have such high expectations.

So... to summarize: I believe that Odom is an important part of this D-Line... but I don't think he's as important as he was last year - and believe he's probably not the quite the elite player he appeared to be (and never was).

[HairOnFire]

When Odom went down last year, his role as a DE was not all the difficult to replace. What wasn't able to be replicated was his role as an interior pass rusher.

I agree to a point. IMHO Odom is a power player whose production often results from constant grinding and 2nd effort. Regardless of what weight he carries he's simply not a speed guy. In fact, I'll guess half of his sacks last season were the result of him shifting inside where he effectively split double team blocks.

Zimmer was given two relatively early draft picks for that specific purpose (Dunlap and Atkins). In the event that Odom can't get back to where he was, it is far more possible to replace what he did simply because of the depth and talent of the roster as compared to last year.

Perhaps. The emergence of Michael Johnson looks more promising in regards to pure pass rush ability, but Dunlap and Atkins both fit the mold of outside/inside guys so the depth is there should Odom falter. That said, you have to give the man his due because Odom was the most effective stack and shed D-lineman the Bengals had last season, and the only one who could still produce consistent pressure when doubled.

In fact, I believe that if he had avoided the injury altogether, his numbers would have come back to earth quite a bit... and people probably wouldn't have such high expectations.

I'm not fixated on sack totals. What's important to me is finding a player who can dictate where the double team blocking is targeted. And there's the proverbial rub because before Odom was lost the double team was almost always focused on him. After he went down the double more frequently shifted to the opposing teams chosen point-of-attack. As a result the Bengals pass rush wore down until it wasn't effective at all.