The "experts" speak on troubles with Palmer

[cincyhokie]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Sights-and-sounds/ad8a2c4b-02f7-4828-aebd-a874ae7221c1

MOBILE, Ala. - Sights and sounds from the Senior Bowl:

The disconnect between some in Cincinnati and the many nationally on the subject of Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer only seems to grow. Jets head coach Rex Ryan checked in here fresh off his team’s loss in Sunday’s AFC title game. It was Palmer’s two subpar outings against the Jets in the season finale and the Wild Card game that accelerated talk Palmer is no longer an elite quarterback.

“I don’t think he is. I know he is,” Ryan said. “You put him out there on this field in front of these guys (NFL scouts and coaches) and it ain’t even close. He throws it better than almost anybody in this league. He’s a superstar.”

ESPN’s Chris Mortensen checked in on the media front. He’s been convinced there’s nothing wrong with Palmer physically ever since he asked him with six weeks left in the season if there was anything wrong with his arm and was told it was “fine.” He agrees that Palmer’s problem is his lack of receivers.

“I don’t hear a lot of negative stuff from people in the league about Carson,” Mortensen said. “When you have a quarterback like that it, it’s like anything else. You have to look at what a (Colts general manager) Bill Polian does for Peyton Manning: ‘I’m going to give him a Dallas Clark. I’m going to give him an Anthony Gonzalez. I’m going to give him a Reggie Wayne even though I already have Marvin Harrison.’ You’ve got to surround him with weapons. He’s absolutely OK.”

Which is why Mortensen and all other pundits are anticipating the Bengals taking a receiver or tight end at No. 21.

“There’s no question that they need to restructure their tight end situation on the depth chart,” he said. “They’ve got all question marks there and if there’s somebody like a no-brainer sitting there in the first round at around No. 20 like Brandon Pettigrew last year, I would think they have to do it. Obviously they need wide receivers, too.

“But you know what they need,” Mortensen said. “I think the Bengals are going to be off the roller-coaster ride because of the signing of Coach (Mike) Zimmer. You know the defense is going to be stable and they’re going to be good.”

[walzav29]

I never doubted my Golden Boy. Thats my man!

[cincyhokie]

I never doubted my Golden Boy. Thats my man!

Yep, again, there is nothing wrong with Palmer physically. IF IF IF there was something possibly still bothering him from the previous year should be even better this year. Hopefully, he'll get better play action with the use of his healed hand that got busted up this past year.

[HairOnFire]

Am I the only one who was suprised to see Rex Ryan and Chris Mortenson described as "experts" on quarterbacking?

[cincyhokie]

Am I the only one who was suprised to see Rex Ryan and Chris Mortenson described as "experts" on quarterbacking?

"experts" = media, pundits, blowhards, assclowns, and others who have a job watching football. But when they say something good about our team...they are smart and informed....which is true in this case, obviously.

[gregstephens]

Alright, you guys have fun polishing that spot for next year's Lombardi. I'm smelling three in a row.

I mean seriously, all of this means nothing until we see how the draft plays out, how other personnel issues are handled, and whether somebody mails Brat my world famous Etch-a-Sketch. Until that time, enjoy the kudos from the 'experts' while the Colts and Saints fans enjoy a Super Bowl game.

[cincyhokie]

Alright, you guys have fun polishing that spot for next year's Lombardi. I'm smelling three in a row.

I mean seriously, all of this means nothing until we see how the draft plays out, how other personnel issues are handled, and whether somebody mails Brat my world famous Etch-a-Sketch. Until that time, enjoy the kudos from the 'experts' while the Colts and Saints fans enjoy a Super Bowl game.

All I know is that it's a good sign when other recognize the strengths and potential of this team. Brat still needs to go (he won't though). The Bengals need to get Palmer more help through the draft and FA (I think this is a good possibility).

That's a hell of alot better news than "our starting QB has a shredded elbow and ego and will never win again."

[skyline]

Am I the only one who was suprised to see Rex Ryan and Chris Mortenson described as "experts" on quarterbacking?

"experts" = media, pundits, blowhards, assclowns, and others who have a job watching football. But when they say something good about our team...they are smart and informed....which is true in this case, obviously.

Haha okay.

I happen to completely agree with you about the experts not being all that expert a lot of the time. That said, most of the fans here that are convinced of Carson's mechanical deficiencies aren't any different. They'll point to someone like Theisman who said Carson's mechanics were off, but completely dismiss someone like Mort when he says that Carson is fine. Which one is it? Between the two, I'm sticking with Mort on this one.

I know that Theisman is a former QB, but when have we ever experienced accurate analysis from him in regards to ANYTHING football related...qb or not?

[HairOnFire]

Which one is it? Between the two, I'm sticking with Mort on this one.

Is this where Bengal fans are headed?

An offseason spent choosing sides between the likes of Mort and Joe T?

Madness.

weeps/shakes fist

[gregstephens]

Am I the only one who was suprised to see Rex Ryan and Chris Mortenson described as "experts" on quarterbacking?

"experts" = media, pundits, blowhards, assclowns, and others who have a job watching football. But when they say something good about our team...they are smart and informed....which is true in this case, obviously.

Haha okay.

I happen to completely agree with you about the experts not being all that expert a lot of the time. That said, most of the fans here that are convinced of Carson's mechanical deficiencies aren't any different. They'll point to someone like Theisman who said Carson's mechanics were off, but completely dismiss someone like Mort when he says that Carson is fine. Which one is it? Between the two, I'm sticking with Mort on this one.

I know that Theisman is a former QB, but when have we ever experienced accurate analysis from him in regards to ANYTHING football related...qb or not?

Since you are referring to me, allow me to retort.

You remind me of the guy in jail that won't listen to his lawyer because his girlfriend says he can beat the rap. So, because Mort is a reporter, and one of the least worse, you completely disregard the observations of a man that not only has watched the game for decades, but has also played the very position on every possible level, including the grandest stage of them all, the Super Bowl. I mean, it's not like we are talking about citing Theisman on a punting issue.

But, ok. Go with Mort. Heck, hire him as OC. Give HIM the Etch-a-Sketch and go for it. Can't do any worse since he's now a QB coach and expert.

[skyline]

Which one is it? Between the two, I'm sticking with Mort on this one.

Is this where Bengal fans are headed?

An offseason spent choosing sides between the likes of Mort and Joe T?

Madness.

weeps/shakes fist

Haha, not at all. Mort simply came down on the side that already seemed logical in my mind. Mort sides with ME. Not the other way around.

After all, who do you think those league sources are that he claims to be in contact with?

[gregstephens]

Which one is it? Between the two, I'm sticking with Mort on this one.

Is this where Bengal fans are headed?

An offseason spent choosing sides between the likes of Mort and Joe T?

Madness.

weeps/shakes fist

Haha, not at all. Mort simply came down on the side that already seemed logical in my mind. Mort sides with ME. Not the other way around.

After all, who do you think those league sources are that he claims to be in contact with?

Well, geez, why didn't you ever tell us you were a politician--or a tobacco lobbyist?

[skyline]

Am I the only one who was suprised to see Rex Ryan and Chris Mortenson described as "experts" on quarterbacking?

"experts" = media, pundits, blowhards, assclowns, and others who have a job watching football. But when they say something good about our team...they are smart and informed....which is true in this case, obviously.

Haha okay.

I happen to completely agree with you about the experts not being all that expert a lot of the time. That said, most of the fans here that are convinced of Carson's mechanical deficiencies aren't any different. They'll point to someone like Theisman who said Carson's mechanics were off, but completely dismiss someone like Mort when he says that Carson is fine. Which one is it? Between the two, I'm sticking with Mort on this one.

I know that Theisman is a former QB, but when have we ever experienced accurate analysis from him in regards to ANYTHING football related...qb or not?

Since you are referring to me, allow me to retort.

You remind me of the guy in jail that won't listen to his lawyer because his girlfriend says he can beat the rap. So, because Mort is a reporter, and one of the least worse, you completely disregard the observations of a man that not only has watched the game for decades, but has also played the very position on every possible level, including the grandest stage of them all, the Super Bowl. I mean, it's not like we are talking about citing Theisman on a punting issue.

But, ok. Go with Mort. Heck, hire him as OC. Give HIM the Etch-a-Sketch and go for it. Can't do any worse since he's now a QB coach and expert.

No, as I said to Hair, I really don't care what either of them say in the end. Mort just happens to agree with what I've already thought to be the case, which obviously gives him some credibility, right?

And my point still stands. The fact that Theisman was a good QB doesn't automatically get him credit for being a good coach/analyst as well. I remember when he showed a replay of a completed pass, and Theisman was trying to point out how he didn't throw off his back foot, and that's why the pass didn't sail high. That's all fine and good, but when I went back to compare it in slow motion to some of his incomplete throws, they were pretty identical. Sure, it could have simply been my untrained eye, but I suspect good ole Joe was just spouting out your standard QB wisdom on mechanics without stopping to see if there was anything more to it. It's the same, typical, shallow analysis we see from Theisman pretty much all the time isn't it?

[HairOnFire]

Mort sides with ME. Not the other way around.

[Sea Ray]

Am I the only one who was suprised to see Rex Ryan and Chris Mortenson described as "experts" on quarterbacking?

When ESPN looks for experts they rarely look beyond the east coast

[blueridge]

Good article. As for Carson Palmer, I just want to say this:Thank-f**king-god we have him as our QB. Where would this team be without him? The biggest idiots are those people who mewl about Palmer and question his ability. What fools. He's an elite talent and OUR franchise QB. Now, let's add some weapons for him to throw the ball to.

[SupaBran]

Good article. As for Carson Palmer, I just want to say this:Thank-f**king-god we have him as our QB. Where would this team be without him? The biggest idiots are those people who mewl about Palmer and question his ability. What fools. He's an elite talent and OUR franchise QB. Now, let's add some weapons for him to throw the ball to.

Can I ask something that won't start a fight?

When will everyone stop making excuses for Carson?

I get that he has been nothing but a 'Golden Boy' and has said and done all the right things for this franchise and city...but its never his fault according to a lot of Bengals fans. Its "his knee is not fully healed yet", or "if we only had a defense", or "he doesn't have enough weapons."

I'm not saying he has a lot to work with, but he has to take responsibility for his play, good or bad.

I admire him extremely for even coming back after that knee injury b/c even to this day I wouldn't be able to walk right but getting hurt every year since 05' is his fault. The knock on Pike is his durability issues in college and if you can knock a college player for that, why is it not a negative for a pro player?

This year was all CedBen and defense. If one of those weren't as great as they were, we wouldn't have even made it to the playoffs.

I'm not saying its time to get rid of Carson or anything...and I think losing Housh was gigantic but great quarterbacks elevate their teammates play.

Btw, how in the hell did Carson not make the Pro Bowl before Vince Young or David Garrard?

[HoosierCat]

Can I ask something that won't start a fight?

When will everyone stop making excuses for Carson?

I don't think anyone is making excuses for Carson. There seems to me to be widespread acknowledgement that he shares in the blame for the offense's poor performance.

Where I think the conversation goes off the rails is when people insist it's *all* about Carson, and we should draft Tebow and trade Palmer to Seattle, yadda yadda yadda - while ignoring the lack of talent at WR and TE and the squeaky-new o-line. Those aren't excuses, they're facts.

Dumping on Carson is the lazy way out. He needs to pick up his game, certainly, but you put Peyton Manning on this team and the Bengals are still watching the Super Bowl at home.

[gregstephens]

Can I ask something that won't start a fight?

When will everyone stop making excuses for Carson?

I don't think anyone is making excuses for Carson. There seems to me to be widespread acknowledgement that he shares in the blame for the offense's poor performance.

Where I think the conversation goes off the rails is when people insist it's *all* about Carson, and we should draft Tebow and trade Palmer to Seattle, yadda yadda yadda - while ignoring the lack of talent at WR and TE and the squeaky-new o-line. Those aren't excuses, they're facts.

Dumping on Carson is the lazy way out. He needs to pick up his game, certainly, but you put Peyton Manning on this team and the Bengals are still watching the Super Bowl at home.

I agree with this assessment. Any comments I've made about Carson and his issues have not been intended to be exclusive of the rest of the offensive personnel issues you've so succinctly outlined. Nor have I advocated getting rid of Palmer. I've advocated getting rid of Brat. With this personnel, or with that of the Colts, I don't think the man is clever enough to keep it fresh and efficient, nor do I think he's demonstrated an ability to coach his guys through issues (see excessive penalties).

[Pidge]

Dumping on Carson is the lazy way out. He needs to pick up his game, certainly, but you put Peyton Manning on this team and the Bengals are still watching the Super Bowl at home.

Indeed. The fact that the Colts build the team around their greatest asset also helps immensely. Giving him productive players to use almost every yr. Either through 1st rnd picks or getting some gems in the lower rnds and developing them for a couple of yrs in advance of needing to put an older player out to pasture. Having a coherent plan helps.

Their insane midget defensive scheme allows them to really keep Manning surrounded with productive players on the offense.

Carson may need to pull his finger out a bit but then so does everybody involved with the Bengals. It's a team sport. I'm encouraged by the strides made in just a single off-season to think that the entire team will be better next yr again, Carson included. This may point to my naivety as a Bengals fan but I'm very optimistic.

[SupaBran]

I agree with you guys...its not all Palmer. A lot of it is personnel decisions from drafting the right guys(DeSean Jackson over Jerome Simpson), but a lot of it is his own health. He has to stay healthy. A lot of my worries stem from all of his injuries and can he recover fully...ever! I hope so b/c we have a hellacious schedule next year. We're going to have to be a way better team to make the playoffs next year.

And while I agree, Brat frickin blows! I can just see another 'excuse' next year. Carson is on his back 9 so to speak and has to start regaining the elite form or it could be time to move in another direction in a year or 2.

I also have to disagree with you about the Peyton Manning thing. Peyton is the greatest of all time...at least of my time, that I have ever seen. Who's to say we would be in the Super Bowl but if we had him I believe we would've already made one.

[COB]

Sure, I could listen to experts who've compared Carson to other QBs, guys who've played the position, and guys who, as a full time job, get paid to evaluate and comment on NFL players.

But I won't make up my mind on this issue until I hear from noted NFL quarterbacking expert JoePong.

[Stripes]

I hate cheesy ESPN words like "elite", but I do think he's a good quarterback. Give him some weapons and more consistent protection and then see what happens.

[Ickey44]

Btw, how in the hell did Carson not make the Pro Bowl before Vince Young or David Garrard?

Carson declined because he just had surgery on his non-throwing hand to fix his effed up thumb.

[cincy9275]

think about the weapons carson lost this year. (henry, tj, losing these 2 were huge) utect, kelly. then caldwell and coles could not get open. all the dropped passes added with brats superior play calling. it's a wonder carson was able to have any sucess. this team goes thru carson. he is going to be the difference between winning and losing. the bengals need a major talent upgrades from the te/wr position. and get him the weapons he needs!!! they also could do a better job with getting guys like scott and leonard the ball in the passing game.