Does anybody think that Carson should have had surgery?

[Dadraftnick]

I know I am going upset people for posting this but, here goes...

Carson should have had surgery when he first hurt his arm, he would have had over a year to recover.

Instead he chose to workout his arm.

He just cant throw with the same zip or distance that he did before the injury.

I think that has much more to do with us going to the run game more than anything else.

I hear people say that without Henry we no longer have a deep threat but,Andre Caldwell is listed that he ran a 4.31(much faster than Henry) and Quan Cosby 4.44 so there is still speed in the WR corps.

I think that Carson just has trouble throwing the long ball, which is why nearly all his passes are short and med. range.

It doesnt mean he sucks, Joe Montana made a career of throwing those kind of passes but, I just dont think he will be the old Carson Palmer until he has the surgery.

What do you guys think?

[Kazkal]

Eh with Henry the Offense was still pretty Bleh

[HoosierCat]

No.

[membengal]

Nope.

[ChadJohnson-85]

I know I am going upset people for posting this but, here goes...

Carson should have had surgery when he first hurt his arm, he would have had over a year to recover.

Instead he chose to workout his arm.

He just cant throw with the same zip or distance that he did before the injury.

I think that has much more to do with us going to the run game more than anything else.

I hear people say that without Henry we no longer have a deep threat but,Andre Caldwell is listed that he ran a 4.31(much faster than Henry) and Quan Cosby 4.44 so there is still speed in the WR corps.

I think that Carson just has trouble throwing the long ball, which is why nearly all his passes are short and med. range.

It doesnt mean he sucks, Joe Montana made a career of throwing those kind of passes but, I just dont think he will be the old Carson Palmer until he has the surgery.

What do you guys think?

I'm not exactly sure yet. Sure does make you wonder what happened to the deep ball? We definitely have the speed at the WR position. It could be three things...

1. Carson IS hurt.

2. They decided to mainly stick with the run and screw the passing game.

3. Bratkowski don't know what "deep pass" means.

I would also like to know where the no huddle went....

[BengalPimp]

I'll admit, that thought has crossed my mind. but i really dont think Carson's elbow is the problem. Our O-Line is a decent run-blocking line, but they dont give Carson enough time to throw the deep ball. Just because some of the young WR's have speed, that doesnt mean they will be open deep. NFL CB's are fast also, its the routes, and doubles moves that they have not yet perfected.

[membengal]

Look me up the next time Coles or Caldwell are open deep.

Look me up the next time Coles or Caldwell are asked to run a deep route.

[Stripes]

Look me up the next time Coles or Caldwell are open deep.

Yup.

Even then, I don't blame the loss of Henry. Carson rarely has had time to throw deep anyways. Two things have to happen to complete a deep pass -- a receiver get open deep and the line protect the quarterback... neither of which we've seen consistently since the Oakland game.

[volcom69]

Look me up the next time Coles or Caldwell are open deep.

Look me up the next time Coles or Caldwell are asked to run a deep route.

Yep these recievers just cant seem to get open, even when Palmer has the time. I do think this team misses a guy like TJ, and they do miss Henry on deep routes and fades in the endzone. Palmer is not himself his throws seem to be off every now and then, but i dont think its because of his elbow. With the WR not getting open i really dont know if this offense will be any good (passing offense that is). The problem is like today, when the run is not there or when they get down to fast, we dont have enough passing game to win.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I know I am going upset people for posting this but, here goes... I just dont think he will be the old Carson Palmer until he has the surgery.

What do you guys think?

I think you're way off base assuming surgery is an answer for what to me seems to be poor pass blocking.

[kingwilly]

Palmer's accuracy is certainly off on many throws. And on many throws, it is either his mechanics or the elbow is not as it was, because they are errant or poor.

He can rifle it still but it looks like it takes more effort than it did.

The line has done better than most have expected and the general perception that he "has no time" is overstated. He has had enough time and has used his legs to buy more.

The mention about where the no-huddle went is a good one. Well, Brat, where the F is it?

Also, it is not like these things are a revelation, it is that the discussion from many posters (the pongs, the gizzles, etc) simply lack any provocative thought regarding how to actually fix obvious things, with their blathering limited to nothing more than paint job complaining.

I have maintained that Brat is mired in forcing his stupid schemes on whoever lines up, rather than develop schemes that fit the guys that line up. How many WR's have we seen run that idiotic end around? TJ, Chad, Caldwell, Coles.....

I saw plenty of open WR's. I've seen plays that simply work, be nowhere found...leaving us to scratch our heads when things grind to a halt.

For me, this starts with the guy pulling the strings in the booth. Brat has floundered his way to this offensive style, and while the running game has shown serious power, he has simply neglected designing a passing game to leverage the ability of the guys he has lining up wide.

[HoosierCat]

For me, this starts with the guy pulling the strings in the booth. Brat has floundered his way to this offensive style, and while the running game has shown serious power, he has simply neglected designing a passing game to leverage the ability of the guys he has lining up wide.

There's certainly something to be said for that, but on the other hand, how many more points would we have if guys would just make basic plays? If St. Louis doesn't suddenly become incapable of doing his job, if Coats catches, what is it now, 3 dropped sure TDs, the O has 30-40 more points this season. And that doesn't take into account Coles' drops or Chad & the o-line's penalties and what we might have gotten on drives those killed.

Bottom line: playcalling could be better. But so could execution. Again, time & reps is what they need...and they're running out of both.

[Kazkal]

It would help if Coats had hands sure...but he's in plays that he never should be off :| he has be the worst dump off target ever...Leonard Fights tooth and tail,Foschi has more speed Coats runs about as fast as I saw Sims running for the sideline to get off the field before the ball was snapped.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I would also like to know where the no huddle went....

My guess is the line isn't ready to run it. With the rate of procedural penalties they have in the usual offense, imagine the no-huddle. I credit the coaches for not trying to force it.

In any event, as to this topic as a whole: there's definitely a number of potential problems, but before I started looking at Palmer's arm I'd consider all the primary reasons already mentioned.

Receivers are becoming a serious problem. Caldwell's good at certain things, like short yardage, but he doesn't seem to get separation in man coverage. And Coles, at this point somebody needs to arrest him for impersonating a wide receiver. I know people tout his blocking, but if that's all it is then I'd throw an eligible number on another OL and split him out wide. That'd be something.

Alternatives? Cosby doesn't look like much. Has Purify gotten a crack or is he still PS? I have to say, as bad as things are now the suggestion of looking at Simpson ain't sounding crazy either.

[Ickey44]

Bottom line: playcalling could be better. But so could execution. Again, time & reps is what they need...and they're running out of both.

Doesn't it also fall on Brat to clean up the offense's pre-snap penalties? The defense sure isn't doing that. Zimmer has his players disciplined for the most part.

Brat needs to step up and produce or get lost.

[belmontbengal]

This ^...a thousand times this.

[blueridge]

Good grief,people, the problem with the passing game isn't Palmer, the O-line or Bob Bratkowski. Look at our receivers, or the lack thereof. The only real receiving threat is Chad, and every team knows it. Caldwell is OK, but he's a slot receiver. Our #2 is Coles, and his play has been subpar. Other than that-nothing. 3 of the 6 WRs on the roster have no catches on the season. Nothing. For a WR-based passing game, this is incredible. Face it, Coles is no replacement for TJ,Chris Henry's loss has turned out to be huge, and Chad can't be a consistently productive #1 without an effective #2. I usually don't take swipes at ML or MB, but the failure to upgrade the WR position after Henry went down seems to have been a big mistake. This team wins games by getting a lead and holding it with the run and sturdy D. If they fall behind, there's no real good chance for this personnel group to play catch up. There's no chance against a good team like the Vikings. I don't know what they can do at this point to improve the passing game. If they bring a guy in off the street, can he get acclimated and be effective in the next 3 games? I don't think so. Perhaps, they shoul;d activate Simpson and try to work him in. Or give Cosby a chance from scrimmage. Cosby may be the best bet.

[Ickey44]

Good grief,people, the problem with the passing game isn't Palmer, the O-line or Bob Bratkowski. Look at our receivers, or the lack thereof.

Ultimately, if something on the offense isn't working it IS Bratkowski's fault. He's the one responsible for the offense. Not just calling the plays, but coaching the players as well. He made his mark as WR coach before becoming a coordinator. If our WR's aren't getting open then he should be coaching them up and teaching them how to get open. He could also change up some play calling tendencies or draw up some different plays to counter some of our weaknesses. Find some creative ways to get the ball into our receivers' hands. Move Chad around, put him in the slot, put him in motion. Brat has never done these things with Chad and it makes it easy for opposing defenses to double and triple team him because they know exactly where he's going to be.

Do you remember the Texans game? Andre Johnson killed us even though we knew going in he was their best receiver. The Texans moved him around and put him in the slot. Our defense had to adjust to cover him and they couldn't do it.

For God sake, Brat. Look at what other teams are doing if what you're doing isn't working.