Bengals vs Raiders After Thoughts?

[HoTbOy]

This one hurts, after being on such a high about sweeping the Steelers and Ravens we lose to the lowly Raiders...The Bengals had to know that if they won they would be 2 games up in the division, they played so uninspired they played like the Raiders were supposed to scared of them or something. and when they didn't back down the Bengals didn't know what to do...

[SupaBran]

Alright, I took a nice 3 hour nap to calm down and it worked, I'm not mad anymore...I'm depressed!

I may have overreacted at first, but the general feelings of what I said are still there.

I wasn't mad for the reason that, there goes the number 1 seed. I'm upset at the lack of urgency vs. an inferior opponent that could've given us a strangle hold of the AFCN and a cushion for the 2nd seed which comes with a 1st round bye! That's huge! And now I'm afraid we lost the advantage we had and either the Pats(probable)will get it and the Chargers def. control it head to head against us, with us having to travel to San Diego.

I still love ya Bubba but you completely kicked me in my marbles today.

I don't blame Morgan Trent. He is a rookie and he looked like it on the last drive but it shouldn't have come down to the final drive. Way too much time for Bruce Gradkowski(gawd, I hate that guy).

I have been saying since b4 they cut St. Louis that Shayne Graham is a bum and is def. not a gawd damn franchise kicker. That red-headed f**k cost us many games over the years and it is completely irreparable.

Brat, you are the worst OC in the league! 2 gawd damn carries for LJ and you hand it off to Jeremi Johnson? That fumble by that fat diabetic bitch cost us the game! We prob. would've made it a 2 score game and it would've been over but noooooo...Brat wants to hand off to our f**king FB who has the worst ball skills I've ever seen and a 30 yard wheel pattern to Brian Leonard on 3rd and 3.

[bpepper]

I have to agree that this game is 100% on the coaches...although Caldwell should never, EVER, EVER be allowed to touch a kickoff again. Ever. He's been terrible at it all year, this is the second one he's fumbled. Why not Cosby? He looks great on punts, and if not for a stupid penalty we keep great field position and momentum up 14.

Why the hell isn't LJ out there more? Leonard is a third down back. Scott should have saved some legs for kickoffs, and although his stats looked good we wasted about 8-10 downs just dancing around getting caught in the backfield (some of that is on the line...but why not call some downhill plays, which they are used to blocking for with ced, with LJ?) Plus, now LJ's gonna be bummed that he's missed his only chance to get some good playing time if ced comes back next week, and although I have no sympathy for him we did bring him here so let's at least keep him semi-happy.

Why the hell aren't we throwing the ball to Chad? Attack! We're in flat, over conservative, do-not-lose mode - what on earth are we doing hucking a long bomb to...brian leonard? WTF? Use your best reciever!

Graham is an idiot. Although that should have been a 25 yarder if not for another sack given up. Roland's not looking quite as good as he did 24 hours ago.

Enough with the delay of games. This should happen like 3 times a season. How many do we have, or almost have (been given a few freebies by the refs). Oh, and figure out the snapcount! That stadium had no one in it, so I can't imagine Cook couldn't hear.

HOLD ON TO THE BALL. Two hands in traffic - didn't they teach us that in peewee football?

Not even a hint of passrush.

Overall, just a disgusting, ridiculous loss. All is not lost, we'll probably come back firing, but this coaching staff needs to seriously reexamine itself and someone needs to tell Brat and ML who their best players on offense are, and that maybe running the same predictable crap, and wasting first and second down a million times, isn't the best idea. Just a pathetic, wasted game...F**k.

[Stripes]

Do I even have to say it?

When you have played 8 games against AFC opponents and your offense has scored 17 points or less in all 8 games, that is not a fluke.

You're correct. You continue to ignore the two NFC games, however, in which the Bengals offense scored 31 and 45 points. The defense has definitely been the better unit this year, but the arrogant bullcrap you continue to shove down everyone's throat after each loss (and only after each loss) is conveniently lacking in certain OBVIOUS counter-points.

[BengalNation1281]

So I went and hosted karaoke, I had some time to think about it, and the more I thought about it the more it bummed me out. We should not have lost that game. I am officially in a funk.

We better come out and slap the Browns in the mouth on Sunday. And if the Raiders lay an egg in Dallas on Thanksgiving, we better come out and slap them in the mouth repeatedly, because then the loss looks even worse than it does right now.

But what are you gonna do? We're Bengals fans. We've done this dance before. And I am sure we will do it again.

WHO DEY

[wpeldios]

with time to calm down, the 2 things I still have to say.

Horribly coached game, Starting from the decision to travel on Saturday.

And I'm so sick of watching the Bengals play to not lose. Thats why I loved them earlier this year. Going on 4th and 10, attacking alot.

This team is far from in danger of falling apart, but today was a major step back and I place this on the coaches.

[semiotter]

There are no free wins in the NFL. The team came in overconfident.

Well this was their wake up call.

I agree on both

[semiotter]

Oh did I miss it or has there been a "Official" Joe Pong statement yet? I got to see that one.

[chandon]

i am literally sick to my stomach after this game. this is the reason why this team can't get any respect.

They dont derserve any respect, they can go and beat all the steelers in this world, but when you have the chance to beat a team that is not really good at this time, then you find a way to do it. All the good teams do! This team confuses me, and they better find a way to beat the teams the are supposed to.

I agree Vol. I had to hang my head in shame watching Sky here in the UK and Nick Halling smiling as he said the Bengals have done it again...lost to a lesser team ( even tho' his beloved Stoolers also lost! ) and Kevin Cadle saying yup...it's their MO!

I think it is an imaturity in a young and inexperienced team. Whatever was said on the flight over and subsequent meetings and practices, this Bengals team came into this game over-confident and ill-prepared. It's what they've always done in the past, and they still cannot shake it. They beat the Ravens and Stoolers with sound, disciplined football because nobody expected them to win and they had something to prove. This game was almost a 'given'. Of course they would win...it's only the Raiders!!! They drifted back into Sloppy Mode with panalties and turnovers, and once in that groove they just could not get out of it! Good teams don't do that. Playoff and Championship teams don't do that. Disciplined teams with a good mental attitude don't do that.

Marvin needs to read them the riot act on the plane home, and bench everyone for a day of hard physical work. Play the old tapes of The Bungles loud and clear, and ask all the players and staff if this is what they want to go back to! He has GOT to somehow install the thought that EVERY game is a Championship game and the theoretical 'lesser' teams will come after you much harder, because they want to BEAT you and prove something themselves! Prepare for EVERY game as if it is your last. RESPECT every team, because every dog has its day.

Do I expect us to recover from this? Most certainly. I think we'll win the next 2 comfortably. It is, after all, another wake up call.

But how many more do they need?

[Pidge]

Massive waste of a golden opportunity. Not only in taking a genuine stranglehold on the division but also going some ways in cementing the 2nd seed in the AFC.

Really really disappointed and frankly, whatever the pundits and talking heads say, I'm not bothered. This was a game we should have won.

I love our tough, hard-nosed victories and am only left to wonder what might be right now had the team not s**t its pants against two teams we should have beaten - Houston at home and Oakland.

Bigger picture, this season has gone way better than I expected. Considering I was expecting around .500, give or take a couple of games, and signs of improvement - I can't be too downhearted.

[Pidge]

Do I expect us to recover from this? Most certainly. I think we'll win the next 2 comfortably. It is, after all, another wake up call.

But how many more do they need?

A couple more I think. One more in the regular season and once more in the playoffs. This team is close but not ready yet, IMO. Talent-wise - check. Physicality - check. Mentality - cross. Give this team a couple more heart breakers and an offseason to reload with some other guys and another camp together and the last thing should be rectified as they desperately try to wash the taste of defeat out of their mouths next yr.

It's nice to go into every game with a genuine belief that we can win it though.

[chandon]

Do I expect us to recover from this? Most certainly. I think we'll win the next 2 comfortably. It is, after all, another wake up call.

But how many more do they need?

A couple more I think. One more in the regular season and once more in the playoffs. This team is close but not ready yet, IMO. Talent-wise - check. Physicality - check. Mentality - cross. Give this team a couple more heart breakers and an offseason to reload with some other guys and another camp together and the last thing should be rectified as they desperately try to wash the taste of defeat out of their mouths next yr.

It's nice to go into every game with a genuine belief that we can win it though.

Unfortunately, I agree Pidge. It's just so frustrating to see them play with so much heart and belief in other games. I think we really have a shot at developing a good team here. Some additions and subtractions on the rosta are needed, but they've come so far this year it would be a crying shame to see it wasted. I'm still not comfortable with Brat, and I think a new OC is needed to move us to the next level. He just doesn't have what is necessary to read what the other team is doing to us in certain games and change-up to counter that. And what is going on with flying out on the Saturday? Did Mikey get cheap seats or something? I know when I fly to the USA, it takes a good couple of days to get completely in-sinc. It just seemed too rushed and too easy. They thought they could just pop across the USA and make this game against an easy opponant. That smacks of immaturity and a lack of vision. ML is experienced enough to know there are no easy games. The 6 'Ps' spring to mind - Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance!!!

Awesome win by Spurs btw!!!

[Ickey44]

My thoughts? Caldwell does not need to return kickoffs anymore. This is the second or third he's fumbled.

The offense needs to learn how to adjust to the blitz.

Marvin needs to learn to go for the kill. With a seven point lead he was content to play the clock instead of trying to get another score. If they'd have gotten one more first down they probably could've kicked a field goal.

Jeremi Johnson should not touch the ball anymore.

Bernard Scott looked damn good.

Why was Morgan Trent left all by himself when we knew the Raiders are going to throw down the field?

[bwillycuse]

My thoughts? Caldwell does not need to return kickoffs anymore. This is the second or third he's fumbled.

The offense needs to learn how to adjust to the blitz.

Marvin needs to learn to go for the kill. With a seven point lead he was content to play the clock instead of trying to get another score. If they'd have gotten one more first down they probably could've kicked a field goal.

Jeremi Johnson should not touch the ball anymore.

Bernard Scott looked damn good.

Why was Morgan Trent left all by himself when we knew the Raiders are going to throw down the field?

Bengals failed on so many different levels yesterday, it is mind boggling.

I give kudos to the Raiders - They had nothing to play for and they beat us. They didnt even have a half full stadium and they beat us.

Im serious - We better be worried about Quinn next week. We make these QB's look like Pro Bowlers

[Jet23]

Playoffs, Playoffs, you're talking Playoffs?

Shane Graham is horrible. Who misses a 35 -/+ yard field goal? Franchise kicker my butt. St Louis and Graham should have shared a cab to get the heck out of Cincy. How long will Marvin (or Mikey) stand for his poor performance?. He lost the game today.

So the offense had nothing to do with this? C'mon man!

The NFL is all about opportunities. And Shane Graham blew it today. I am just frustrated about this guy constantly missing easy field goals. See Colts.. Mike Vanderjagt.

During the Bears / Eagles game they showed a stat that Robbie Gould has made 41 (I believe) consecutive field goals inside of 40-yards. How does Franchise stack up to that? So, if your kickoffs are below average and you are costing your team wins / playoff appearances with erratic kicking??????

[Pidge]

Do I expect us to recover from this? Most certainly. I think we'll win the next 2 comfortably. It is, after all, another wake up call.

But how many more do they need?

A couple more I think. One more in the regular season and once more in the playoffs. This team is close but not ready yet, IMO. Talent-wise - check. Physicality - check. Mentality - cross. Give this team a couple more heart breakers and an offseason to reload with some other guys and another camp together and the last thing should be rectified as they desperately try to wash the taste of defeat out of their mouths next yr.

It's nice to go into every game with a genuine belief that we can win it though.

Unfortunately, I agree Pidge. It's just so frustrating to see them play with so much heart and belief in other games. I think we really have a shot at developing a good team here. Some additions and subtractions on the rosta are needed, but they've come so far this year it would be a crying shame to see it wasted. I'm still not comfortable with Brat, and I think a new OC is needed to move us to the next level. He just doesn't have what is necessary to read what the other team is doing to us in certain games and change-up to counter that. And what is going on with flying out on the Saturday? Did Mikey get cheap seats or something? I know when I fly to the USA, it takes a good couple of days to get completely in-sinc. It just seemed too rushed and too easy. They thought they could just pop across the USA and make this game against an easy opponant. That smacks of immaturity and a lack of vision. ML is experienced enough to know there are no easy games. The 6 'Ps' spring to mind - Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance!!!

Awesome win by Spurs btw!!!

I hear ya about the flights. I used to fly to and from the East Coast regularly. Over time you get used to it, but a day or two to get those extra (or fewer) couple of hours is needed. Maybe that's why they decided to go at the last minute? You know, just go at the last minute and play the game straight away.

As it is, I have no doubt that Marvin won't allow that excuse to fly (no pun intended). The whole team was lethargic but what really twists the knife was that they got off to a good start. It was then that everyone seemed to mentally check out. It wasn't as if they were outof sorts right from the kick off. They thought they'd done the hard work I think. They got what they deserved in the end. The game isn't 20 minutes long.

Not sure about Brat. I love our new running game but there have been occasions where we have simply gashed teams through the air, just moved it on teams at will, and then poof - go back to 3 or 4 yd runs and enter into periods of stagnation. This team makes the playoffs for sure but I think they maybe miss having a bye. No idea what damage they can do in the post-season but I really don't think they'll be lifting a trophy above their heads at any point.

Still, for me personally, as disappointing as that might be in the here and now, 2 months ago I didn't think they had a shot at the playoffs. So, I won't judge this young team too harshly, whatever happens.

Thanks, I liked the move for melty face last season but I never expected him to get us back into contention for a top 4 spot. Now watch us lose to the manure reserves!

[gregstephens]

Haven't posted to this point, as I wanted to collect my thoughts rationally and not spout anything knee jerk.

First, Brat needs to readjust the game plan or get out of town. The first three drives proved the offense can move the ball with a 'pick your poison' mentality. First drive, the Raiders were stuffing the run, so the Bengals passed on them with ease. Second drive was fairly well balanced, as the Raiders adjusted to the pass and starting weakening against the run. But for the Palmer fumble, we get at least three points out of that series. Third drive, was nine rushing plays, no passes, without the benefit of Benson. Result? 14 quick points.

I don't have a clue what is going on with the coaching on offense. We saw it against Baltimore. Grab a little lead then let off the gas. That mentality will not win games. You find yourself in a position where the other team scores 7 or 10 points, it's hard for the offensive unit to just 'turn the heat back up'.

Then you factor in all of the mistakes. Three lost fumbles. Ticky-tack false start and delay of game penalties. Was the defense as sharp as they have been all season? No. But this defensive unit left so much on the field in Pittsburgh that the defensive performance shouldn't be surprising. Yes, the Raiders are a bad offensive team. The defense didn't get skunked by the Raiders offense; it just looked a little more human.

I make no excuse for the travel situation, the 'Oakland curse' or the fact they were facing a quarterback that hadn't played in awhile, so there was no fresh film to study. The Bengals should have won this game. Maybe this was the wake up call that tells them they still need to focus, against the bad teams as well as against the good. Maybe this was the wake up call that tells Marvin and Brat that once you gun the engines offensively, you keep it gunned. I appreciate a good grind and chew the clock philosophy. But 14 or 17 points isn't the point to kick in that philosophy in the NFL. You want to play that game, you better have 21-24 points up.

Cleveland will be the test. If they win a blowout, this week's fiasco was well served, as it showed the Bengals how to have a good four quarter football game. If they squeak out another 'Cardiac Cats' win, or, God forbid, even lose, then there is real cause for concern. That's how I see it.

[jonf45uk]

basically, after finding a way to win in the last couple of games( defence, special teams etc) we found a way to lose. Same as whats gone before for years, but it hurts more now after looking like real contenders, and beating good, strong teams such as pittsburgh and baltimore. If they learn from it and use it to get better and stronger, we'll have a bloody good team, we're not far off, but if they brood on it and let cleveland, detroit etc have a chance in games we could be looking at 7-5 in a couple of weeks.

We must put teams away when we're on top, go for the kill and not let these "lesser teams" in with a chance, cos they'll take it.

jon

[kingwilly]

Haven't posted to this point, as I wanted to collect my thoughts rationally and not spout anything knee jerk.

First, Brat needs to readjust the game plan or get out of town. The first three drives proved the offense can move the ball with a 'pick your poison' mentality. First drive, the Raiders were stuffing the run, so the Bengals passed on them with ease. Second drive was fairly well balanced, as the Raiders adjusted to the pass and starting weakening against the run. But for the Palmer fumble, we get at least three points out of that series. Third drive, was nine rushing plays, no passes, without the benefit of Benson. Result? 14 quick points.

I don't have a clue what is going on with the coaching on offense. We saw it against Baltimore. Grab a little lead then let off the gas. That mentality will not win games. You find yourself in a position where the other team scores 7 or 10 points, it's hard for the offensive unit to just 'turn the heat back up'.

Then you factor in all of the mistakes. Three lost fumbles. Ticky-tack false start and delay of game penalties. Was the defense as sharp as they have been all season? No. But this defensive unit left so much on the field in Pittsburgh that the defensive performance shouldn't be surprising. Yes, the Raiders are a bad offensive team. The defense didn't get skunked by the Raiders offense; it just looked a little more human.

I make no excuse for the travel situation, the 'Oakland curse' or the fact they were facing a quarterback that hadn't played in awhile, so there was no fresh film to study. The Bengals should have won this game. Maybe this was the wake up call that tells them they still need to focus, against the bad teams as well as against the good. Maybe this was the wake up call that tells Marvin and Brat that once you gun the engines offensively, you keep it gunned. I appreciate a good grind and chew the clock philosophy. But 14 or 17 points isn't the point to kick in that philosophy in the NFL. You want to play that game, you better have 21-24 points up.

Cleveland will be the test. If they win a blowout, this week's fiasco was well served, as it showed the Bengals how to have a good four quarter football game. If they squeak out another 'Cardiac Cats' win, or, God forbid, even lose, then there is real cause for concern. That's how I see it.

agree.

I am one to preach "GRIND". Yet, the result of the "GRINDING" must be points, not just for the sake of grinding.

[ChadJohnson-85]

Well my after thoughts are not that good (obviously) .

1. Caldwell + KR = Fumble

2. Bernard + Just a Rookie with 21 Carries and 119 rushing yards in one game = Bright future!

3. Bengals in the Redzone + Turnovers = Not going far in play-offs.

[COB]

Pidge needs to find us a new Swedish viking war metal band. We clearly did leave that field in shame, were weren't there to crush.

[membengal]

In a game full of errors, missed blocks, plays not made, weird play calls, and bad decisions, I am still puzzled over Carson's choice of a wheel route pass 20 yards downfield to a completely covered Brian Leonard out of the backfield on that 3rd and 4 when getting the first down in effect ends the game.

Just a series of bad plays. So frustrating.

Still, you can't be a football fan (and a Bengals fan) and not know that these kinds of games come around every so often. You just can't let it linger. I remember a bad December loss in 1981 to the Saints that defied all logic on a Super Bowl team. And so many more.

Team needs to shrug it off, get healthy, and take care of business next Sunday. Then, we all need to pull for the Ravens to knock off the Steelers Sunday night.

[kingwilly]

In a game full of errors, missed blocks, plays not made, weird play calls, and bad decisions, I am still puzzled over Carson's choice of a wheel route pass 20 yards downfield to a completely covered Brian Leonard out of the backfield on that 3rd and 4 when getting the first down in effect ends the game.

Just a series of bad plays. So frustrating.

Still, you can't be a football fan (and a Bengals fan) and not know that these kinds of games come around every so often. You just can't let it linger. I remember a bad December loss in 1981 to the Saints that defied all logic on a Super Bowl team. And so many more.

Team needs to shrug it off, get healthy, and take care of business next Sunday. Then, we all need to pull for the Ravens to knock off the Steelers Sunday night.

Yep. This is football. That's why they play the game.

How they regroup is the measure.

[membengal]

One other place where the offensive coaches and Marvin need some introspection is what to do about finishing games offensively. The quick starts offensively we have seen this year (Cleveland out to a 14-0 lead, 17 first quarter points on Baltimore at Paul Brown but then nothing, 14-0 lead yesterday and finish with only 17, 17 at the half against the Texans and then nothing) leads me to think that there needs to be a different approach to how those games are called after the initial set of points. Perhaps they are being a bit too conservative with the lead. The extra seven to ten points they are missing in those games is less than ideal. That is something that needs to be looked at internally, I would think, and then addressed with the offense.

Playing it safe is more than defensible against a team like the Steelers and Ravens. But if you don't get the extra points on the board against less good teams, you give them hope where you really should not.

[semiotter]

What's really sucks is the streak is over. sorry Billy.