Draft Conversation

[SupaBran]

Trying to mess with someone's sight is too far for me personally. I feel the same about any player in either sport. I'm not saying he should be sent out into the wilderness etc but that's cold. That's not aggressive or tough or whatever. It's a bulls**t move. So, for me, despite him being a great player, I'll pass thanks.

That tubby bastard Wilpoke is another one.

Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

Anywho, I actually think we may have a shot at one of the two safeties in Mays or Berry. I could easily see one or both having an Ed Reed kind of fall.

Tebow, Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, and Jimmy Clausen are all first round picks that will push them further down. I think we all know Suh from Nebraska and Gerald McCoy of Oklahoma won't be there for us. Dez Bryant may be suspended for the year but he's still at least a Top 15 pick. Sprinkle in a few offensive tackles and you are already in the middle of the first round.

[Pidge]

Cheers. I agree that it happens in football and rugby. Hopefully the day it becomes an accepted part never arrives though. I really like Spikes as a player. Maybe that's why I'm so disappointed. Never heard of him doing anything like this before, no idea what he was thinking.

Fantastic INT yesterday anyway.

[ArmyBengal]

While I don't have to agree with what Spikes did at that particular moment in time, there's no denying Spikes is a beast.

I wanted him last year if he came out early and there's no reason to not want him now.

The question becomes, who plays the middle between him and Rey ??

I can't say as I know enough about him dropping in coverage if playing the outside...

[Pidge]

Trying to mess with someone's sight is too far for me personally. I feel the same about any player in either sport. I'm not saying he should be sent out into the wilderness etc but that's cold. That's not aggressive or tough or whatever. It's a bulls**t move. So, for me, despite him being a great player, I'll pass thanks.

That tubby bastard Wilpoke is another one.

Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

Anywho, I actually think we may have a shot at one of the two safeties in Mays or Berry. I could easily see one or both having an Ed Reed kind of fall.

Tebow, Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, and Jimmy Clausen are all first round picks that will push them further down. I think we all know Suh from Nebraska and Gerald McCoy of Oklahoma won't be there for us. Dez Bryant may be suspended for the year but he's still at least a Top 15 pick. Sprinkle in a few offensive tackles and you are already in the middle of the first round.

I'd prefer Berry to fall to us but if Mays was there then fantastic. Also, if Spikes is there then I still go with him as the pick. He'd certainly be the BPA, assuming Dunlap is gone.

[SupaBran]

Cheers. I agree that it happens in football and rugby. Hopefully the day it becomes an accepted part never arrives though. I really like Spikes as a player. Maybe that's why I'm so disappointed. Never heard of him doing anything like this before, no idea what he was thinking.

Fantastic INT yesterday anyway.

I hear that. It happens and I hate it, it just seems crazy dirty and cheap. Basically something the Stealers do. But, you are right. He's never done anything on or off the field dirty or cheap, so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. That was a fan-frickin-tastic interception!

[Pidge]

While I don't have to agree with what Spikes did at that particular moment in time, there's no denying Spikes is a beast.

I wanted him last year if he came out early and there's no reason to not want him now.

The question becomes, who plays the middle between him and Rey ??

I can't say as I know enough about him dropping in coverage if playing the outside...

He'd be absolutely fine in coverage. In fact, he'd be one of the better LBs in coverage from day one. I dunno though, he might just have a little more savvy to stay in the middle. Certainly if we somehow got Spikes, I'd keep him in the middle over Rey. What a brilliant quandary that would be.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Trying to mess with someone's sight is too far for me personally. I feel the same about any player in either sport. I'm not saying he should be sent out into the wilderness etc but that's cold. That's not aggressive or tough or whatever. It's a bulls**t move. So, for me, despite him being a great player, I'll pass thanks.

That tubby bastard Wilpoke is another one.

Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

Anywho, I actually think we may have a shot at one of the two safeties in Mays or Berry. I could easily see one or both having an Ed Reed kind of fall.

Tebow, Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, and Jimmy Clausen are all first round picks that will push them further down. I think we all know Suh from Nebraska and Gerald McCoy of Oklahoma won't be there for us. Dez Bryant may be suspended for the year but he's still at least a Top 15 pick. Sprinkle in a few offensive tackles and you are already in the middle of the first round.

I dont think you can consider Tebow, Bradford or Bryant sure first rounders. They all have flags and may fall from the first round.

[ArmyBengal]

Hey Army, what would you choose in the first four rounds? It doesn't have to be in order just the four positions you would like to see addressed.

Well, it's hard to say at this point, but if I were looking at the team how it is right now this would be a good start I think.

Tight End

Guard

OLB

CB/DE/QB/WR

I think the first 3 rounds are almost guarantees minus a signing in free agency. After that, it's a complete toss up. What happens with Odom ?? Is Geathers more a situational pass rusher ?? Does Rucker come back ?? Is Michael Johnson the real deal ?? Is Trent going to be the nickel corner of the future ?? Is Jordan Palmer really worth a sh*t or would it make more sense to bring a better QB prospect to develop or maybe get something in trade later (like Schaub) ?? Is Chad going to get a new deal ?? How much concern is there with him and Coles getting up there in age ?? Will Henry be back ?? Will Simpson ever get to a point he's on the active roster or is he of no more use than Freddie Brown ??

If I had to pick one of those 4 spots, I'd go with CB. The depth if Hall or JJoe were to get hurt worries me. I like Trent as it stands right now as the 3rd CB, but in a starters role I'm not so sure. That and I'd rather not have to depend on Crocker having to take that 3rd CB role in the event Trent becomes a starter in an injury situation.

I'd say DT and Safety would also be a consideration, but only in the unlikely event one of the top guys falls to us later in the round, which I don't see happening at this point in time. Rey did fall to us in the 2nd, so anything is possible and that would surely change the dynamic of the pecking order in that event.

[SupaBran]

Trying to mess with someone's sight is too far for me personally. I feel the same about any player in either sport. I'm not saying he should be sent out into the wilderness etc but that's cold. That's not aggressive or tough or whatever. It's a bulls**t move. So, for me, despite him being a great player, I'll pass thanks.

That tubby bastard Wilpoke is another one.

Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

Anywho, I actually think we may have a shot at one of the two safeties in Mays or Berry. I could easily see one or both having an Ed Reed kind of fall.

Tebow, Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, and Jimmy Clausen are all first round picks that will push them further down. I think we all know Suh from Nebraska and Gerald McCoy of Oklahoma won't be there for us. Dez Bryant may be suspended for the year but he's still at least a Top 15 pick. Sprinkle in a few offensive tackles and you are already in the middle of the first round.

I dont think you can consider Tebow, Bradford or Bryant sure first rounders. They all have flags and may fall from the first round.

I can consider anyone I want sure first rounders. Tony Dungy said Tebow is going to be a great QB in the NFL and should be a high first round pick. His words. And I think he knows what he's talking about. I don't think Bradford is that good and he will slip but he will be a first round pick. And are you kidding me? Dez Bryant is easily a first round pick. He is better than Heyward-Bey and he is more talented than Crabtree and they both went 7 and 10. If Bryant really does slip and he's there when we pick, it may not be our biggest need but he would easily be the best player available and I will draft him and put him opposite of Chad from Day 1.

[SupaBran]

I just read my own post and it sounded hostile but it wasn't intentional redsbucksbengals

[SupaBran]

Hey Army, what would you choose in the first four rounds? It doesn't have to be in order just the four positions you would like to see addressed.

Well, it's hard to say at this point, but if I were looking at the team how it is right now this would be a good start I think.

Tight End

Guard

OLB

CB/DE/QB/WR

I think the first 3 rounds are almost guarantees minus a signing in free agency. After that, it's a complete toss up. What happens with Odom ?? Is Geathers more a situational pass rusher ?? Does Rucker come back ?? Is Michael Johnson the real deal ?? Is Trent going to be the nickel corner of the future ?? Is Jordan Palmer really worth a sh*t or would it make more sense to bring a better QB prospect to develop or maybe get something in trade later (like Schaub) ?? Is Chad going to get a new deal ?? How much concern is there with him and Coles getting up there in age ?? Will Henry be back ?? Will Simpson ever get to a point he's on the active roster or is he of no more use than Freddie Brown ??

If I had to pick one of those 4 spots, I'd go with CB. The depth if Hall or JJoe were to get hurt worries me. I like Trent as it stands right now as the 3rd CB, but in a starters role I'm not so sure. That and I'd rather not have to depend on Crocker having to take that 3rd CB role in the event Trent becomes a starter in an injury situation.

I'd say DT and Safety would also be a consideration, but only in the unlikely event one of the top guys falls to us later in the round, which I don't see happening at this point in time. Rey did fall to us in the 2nd, so anything is possible and that would surely change the dynamic of the pecking order in that event.

I somewhat agree with you, but I don't get your DT and safety opinion thinking they won't be so you didn't put them on your list but if Gresham is not there then I don't take a tight end at all in this draft unless someone else emerges. I think we all agree that a guard has to be taken in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round. I agree about the OLB but not in the third unless someone falls. I want an actual difference maker. I'd rather wait until we have to draft a WR and take a true legit receiver. I like Jordan but I can dig your opinion about a project to start someday. I agree with your CB and Def. end position.

[Kazkal]

I think people have a bias against Mathis because he bounced around on some practice squads, but he has been playing great football for us. He was a third round pick, which is high for a guard,

He played 15 games his 2nd year and I thought you couldn't be put on practice squad if you played more then 8 games in a season? All same ya we seem be having some good luck with castaways Bobbie,Mathis,ROnald,Cook, & RIchie bRaham of recent memory...like you said may just been some players took longer develop but people who are hating need pay attention on bengals.com it's bad....Like on a thread everyone was saying Kooistra was the player who needs sit when Andre get's activated even though he has only been activated weeks 2 & 3..

Is another guard or tackle a bigger priority than say more d-line help

The only way I'd think about a tackle this year is if we trade Collins then taking a project in the later rounds...But we for sure have Rolland for one more year Collins for 2 so really no need worry about tackle 5#

First of all, I'm not saying Mathis is garbage. I just think we could upgrade. You are all saying Livings is a backup and Mathis is a starter but if you remember that long ago, Nate Livings won the starting job in the camps and preseason. I

Livings has been with the Bengals 4 years Mathis just tagged on this season so it's not surprising that livings got the first go more so since he played next to whitworth in college...but Mathis got his shot and turned out to be the better option just like with Collins ya he was our starter week but but he's still the 4th best tackle on this team.

PS,As for Brandon Spikes it may have been his first dirty play but it was still Dirty his hand was at his waist when the play was over then he reaches in to gouge so he knew what he was doing...Haynesworth never stomped on someones face before the cowboys game :| Doesn't make it okay or fact that play was dirty as hell.

[ArmyBengal]

Hey Army, what would you choose in the first four rounds? It doesn't have to be in order just the four positions you would like to see addressed.

Well, it's hard to say at this point, but if I were looking at the team how it is right now this would be a good start I think.

Tight End

Guard

OLB

CB/DE/QB/WR

I think the first 3 rounds are almost guarantees minus a signing in free agency. After that, it's a complete toss up. What happens with Odom ?? Is Geathers more a situational pass rusher ?? Does Rucker come back ?? Is Michael Johnson the real deal ?? Is Trent going to be the nickel corner of the future ?? Is Jordan Palmer really worth a sh*t or would it make more sense to bring a better QB prospect to develop or maybe get something in trade later (like Schaub) ?? Is Chad going to get a new deal ?? How much concern is there with him and Coles getting up there in age ?? Will Henry be back ?? Will Simpson ever get to a point he's on the active roster or is he of no more use than Freddie Brown ??

If I had to pick one of those 4 spots, I'd go with CB. The depth if Hall or JJoe were to get hurt worries me. I like Trent as it stands right now as the 3rd CB, but in a starters role I'm not so sure. That and I'd rather not have to depend on Crocker having to take that 3rd CB role in the event Trent becomes a starter in an injury situation.

I'd say DT and Safety would also be a consideration, but only in the unlikely event one of the top guys falls to us later in the round, which I don't see happening at this point in time. Rey did fall to us in the 2nd, so anything is possible and that would surely change the dynamic of the pecking order in that event.

I somewhat agree with you, but I don't get your DT and safety opinion thinking they won't be so you didn't put them on your list but if Gresham is not there then I don't take a tight end at all in this draft unless someone else emerges. I think we all agree that a guard has to be taken in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round. I agree about the OLB but not in the third unless someone falls. I want an actual difference maker. I'd rather wait until we have to draft a WR and take a true legit receiver. I like Jordan but I can dig your opinion about a project to start someday. I agree with your CB and Def. end position.

Well, if Suh and the other DT I can't think of right off the top aren't there and Mays and Berry aren't there which I don't expect at where we will probably draft, then I say don't take the position until later if at all. The talent drops at both positions and we would have more value at another position or the BPA approach. If those players are there, then I agree with you and I guess I didn't quite express that adequately enough in that they would be a greater priority early on. I just put those positions out there and think the first three are interchangable depending on who's there when it's out turn to pick. I also agree with what was said earlier that if Dez Bryant were to fall to us in the first, I would bet we take him, if not, yeah we can wait, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that happen. Something else I was thinking about is the fact we lost Fui who was plucked off the practice squad, so they may be looking FB again to add depth if nothing else. Later in the draft with that one though if they are still pretty high in Jeremi.

Good conversation here...

[SupaBran]

First of all, I'm not saying Mathis is garbage. I just think we could upgrade. You are all saying Livings is a backup and Mathis is a starter but if you remember that long ago, Nate Livings won the starting job in the camps and preseason. I

Livings has been with the Bengals 4 years Mathis just tagged on this season so it's not surprising that livings got the first go more so since he played next to whitworth in college...but Mathis got his shot and turned out to be the better option just like with Collins ya he was our starter week but but he's still the 4th best tackle on this team.

[SupaBran]

Hey Army, what would you choose in the first four rounds? It doesn't have to be in order just the four positions you would like to see addressed.

Well, it's hard to say at this point, but if I were looking at the team how it is right now this would be a good start I think.

Tight End

Guard

OLB

CB/DE/QB/WR

I think the first 3 rounds are almost guarantees minus a signing in free agency. After that, it's a complete toss up. What happens with Odom ?? Is Geathers more a situational pass rusher ?? Does Rucker come back ?? Is Michael Johnson the real deal ?? Is Trent going to be the nickel corner of the future ?? Is Jordan Palmer really worth a sh*t or would it make more sense to bring a better QB prospect to develop or maybe get something in trade later (like Schaub) ?? Is Chad going to get a new deal ?? How much concern is there with him and Coles getting up there in age ?? Will Henry be back ?? Will Simpson ever get to a point he's on the active roster or is he of no more use than Freddie Brown ??

If I had to pick one of those 4 spots, I'd go with CB. The depth if Hall or JJoe were to get hurt worries me. I like Trent as it stands right now as the 3rd CB, but in a starters role I'm not so sure. That and I'd rather not have to depend on Crocker having to take that 3rd CB role in the event Trent becomes a starter in an injury situation.

I'd say DT and Safety would also be a consideration, but only in the unlikely event one of the top guys falls to us later in the round, which I don't see happening at this point in time. Rey did fall to us in the 2nd, so anything is possible and that would surely change the dynamic of the pecking order in that event.

I somewhat agree with you, but I don't get your DT and safety opinion thinking they won't be so you didn't put them on your list but if Gresham is not there then I don't take a tight end at all in this draft unless someone else emerges. I think we all agree that a guard has to be taken in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round. I agree about the OLB but not in the third unless someone falls. I want an actual difference maker. I'd rather wait until we have to draft a WR and take a true legit receiver. I like Jordan but I can dig your opinion about a project to start someday. I agree with your CB and Def. end position.

Well, if Suh and the other DT I can't think of right off the top aren't there and Mays and Berry aren't there which I don't expect at where we will probably draft, then I say don't take the position until later if at all. The talent drops at both positions and we would have more value at another position or the BPA approach. If those players are there, then I agree with you and I guess I didn't quite express that adequately enough in that they would be a greater priority early on. I just put those positions out there and think the first three are interchangable depending on who's there when it's out turn to pick. I also agree with what was said earlier that if Dez Bryant were to fall to us in the first, I would bet we take him, if not, yeah we can wait, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that happen. Something else I was thinking about is the fact we lost Fui who was plucked off the practice squad, so they may be looking FB again to add depth if nothing else. Later in the draft with that one though if they are still pretty high in Jeremi.

Good conversation here...

I agree, def. great convo, I love draft talk!

I think you are thinking of Gerald McCoy outta Oklahoma, right?

I agree with everything you said, especially at FB. While Jeremi has been unexpectedly great, I think its obvious we need insurance at the very least. We drafted Fui and prob. would've put him on the PS, and we all loved Chris Pressley who Tampa stole from us...you basterds!

[Kazkal]

First of all, Livings beat Mathis in camp, point blank. And I couldn't care less who's better between Roland and Collins since they're both backups and would not be starting if Andre didn't hold out and then get hurt.

you sir are correct he beat him out in Camp But they were impressed by Mathis in GAMES That he held the spot when livings returned...if you only judged players off practice Sims is a pretty crappy DT but he brings it game day...

Secondly, I don't consider Haynesworth a dirty player after one moment of weakness years ago, and Spikes is a stud and I would take him in a heartbeat as a Bengal standing over Big Jen with one of his eyeballs in his hand!

If you did what they did on the street they would be charged for assault and go to jail,They both knew what they were doing they both we're trying to injure another player...sorry if your okay with that I'm not I liked spikes alot and I don't question him as a player but that is a very assanine move he made.

You can't label someone a dirty player b/c of one play with no history of being dirty, IMO. Whines Hard is dirty in my eyes b/c of years of multiple cheap shots and late hits.

Yes Hines is dirty but his block's aren't meant to injury another player though he has no retreat when does it and he's a uber douche bag but he's trying to make a impact play....not rying to Rob someone of their vision or stomping on their face.

[SupaBran]

Hey Kazkal, agree to disagree.

[Kazkal]

Hey Kazkal, agree to disagree.

On Spikes sure But i'll still try and convert ya to liking Mathis

[ArmyBengal]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I wouldn't mind seeing a better option to Mathis and Livings as well. Then again, I could be way off in the way the coaches view him. Sort of like thinking we needed to take a Center in the first two rounds this year while all along the coaches knew they had Cook sitting and waiting for his chance to shine and we put off drafting the position until the 4th round. If that's the case, sure, then I'm happy, but I won't be convinced of it until that point in time comes.

[Pidge]

Even if we had 5 stud O-linmen yr in and yr out, I'd never be disappointed going O-line in one of the first 3 rounds.

[SupaBran]

You prob. already know but Urban Meyer suspended Spikes for the first half of our next game. I still support him but I just can't defend that. Its not an excuse but Urban said Spikes got caught up in emotions and reacted to getting poked in the eye earlier in the game. Meyer said he's not that kind of player and he's better than something like that.

I still would love to have him in stripes doing that to a Stealer!

[redsbengalsbucks]

You prob. already know but Urban Meyer suspended Spikes for the first half of our next game. I still support him but I just can't defend that. Its not an excuse but Urban said Spikes got caught up in emotions and reacted to getting poked in the eye earlier in the game. Meyer said he's not that kind of player and he's better than something like that.

I still would love to have him in stripes doing that to a Stealer!

Wow, what a strict punishment. 1 whole half a game. p***y coach, cant make himself punish a deserving player for more than half a game. If it was a scrub what do you think the punishment would have been?

At least the Oregan coach had some balls and made the kid sit for most of the season and show he was committed to playing the game the correct way.

Thugs like this should not get the opportunity to play the game. They take it for granted and will not learn anything from this.

Count me in the camp as not wanting a dirty player like this in the draft.

[Pidge]

See now, if the decision was left up to me, his name would be scratched off the list already. Having been involved in a similarly physical game and played that game to a reasonable level, I understand that emotions boil over. I've even swung a couple of times myself. Not my proudest moment but we shook hands after the game and I sheepishly apologised and we went for a beer or two with rest of the teams. Gouging is just a taboo I'm afraid and it most definitely does not belong in the same conversation as emotions getting the better of you. Gouging is designed to injure, that's its only intent and is a calculated move with malice involved. It is far from an emotional, heat of the moment action. The last gouger I saw, yr ago now in my late teens, was actually set upon by his own team mates when they realised what he was doing.

Now, that is not say to say he doesn't deserve all the glories and riches coming his way in pro football. He's a hell of a talent and has put in yrs of hard work and dedication and I wish him the best but I hope it isn't with the Bengals.

This incident doesn't speak about his qualities as a football player to me, it speaks about his qualities as a person. That is no doubt hyperbole and might be unfair but that's what his actions, and his actions alone, showed me. It's just how I feel.

[SupaBran]

You prob. already know but Urban Meyer suspended Spikes for the first half of our next game. I still support him but I just can't defend that. Its not an excuse but Urban said Spikes got caught up in emotions and reacted to getting poked in the eye earlier in the game. Meyer said he's not that kind of player and he's better than something like that.

I still would love to have him in stripes doing that to a Stealer!

Wow, what a strict punishment. 1 whole half a game. p***y coach, cant make himself punish a deserving player for more than half a game. If it was a scrub what do you think the punishment would have been?

At least the Oregan coach had some balls and made the kid sit for most of the season and show he was committed to playing the game the correct way.

Thugs like this should not get the opportunity to play the game. They take it for granted and will not learn anything from this.

Count me in the camp as not wanting a dirty player like this in the draft.

The SEC's officials accepted the punishment dealt out by Meyer. They could have ask for more but it wasn't that serious, IMO. Stuff like that happens on the bottom of the pile all the time and everybody is acting like that Georgia guy is innocent in all this, he could have very well done this earlier in the game. Urban Meyer is the best coach in college football! Hands down! A lot better than Jim "I can't win a big game" Tressel.

The Oregon coach had some balls b/c they are not going to win a Championship!

I love Spikes and would take him in a heartbeat. Whines Hard is the dirtiest player but Stealer fans love him! He's not a dirty player. He's done one thing in his whole career and he's already labeled a dirty player? That's redikulus! Haynesworth did one thing and hasn't done anything since. You have to have a history IMO to be labeled a dirty player.

We should just agree to disagree b/c I will defend Spikes to the end of the Earth, but if you wanna keep talkin s**t then we can do this everyday all day! It's your choice!

[Pidge]

Stuff like that happens on the bottom of the pile all the time and everybody is acting like that Georgia guy is innocent in all this

Supa, no doubt he's far from the first player in football to do this but it happens all the time? I don't agree with that. You'd see far more eye injuries for a start and players would do something about it.

A team mate lost most of his vision in one eye after being gouged. The guy who did it had never been in trouble before. That comforted my friend greatly.