We need to end the Carson Palmer experiment

[fattyjay]

No way Carson is the reason for the offensive troubles. He completed close to 64% of his passes despite all the drops. The main problem IMO is the fact that teams don't respect our running game at all. They play two deep safeties and dare the Bengals to run. So of course the Bengals audible into running plays. The problem is they can't run effectively. There is a reason the Bengals were able to get Benson off the street and it has nothing to do with his off-field problems. He doesn't have a burst to get to the outside, and he lacks the vision to run between the tackles. The recurring theme that will haunt them the rest of the year is they can't run the ball when they need to.

[Wraith]

I think this thread is ridiculous. 1st Half Palmer would have been 19 for 21 if his receivers had just caught the passes that hit them in the hands. I watched as Jeremi Johnson dropped a soft pass he could have taken for at least 30 yards. Palmer had 2 INTs but one was deflected and the other one was the last play of the game on a Hail Mary 70 yard bomb. Palmer got the ball with a little over 6 minutes to go in the game needing to score a touchdown and calmly drove us down the field and made it happen, if not for a completely fluke play with 20 seconds life to go in the game we would all be talking about his poise and making the plays when it counts.

Palmer is not resposible for this loss, Anthony Collins was awful. Coles was awful. The Offensive Play calling was so predictable that I (who hasn't played competitive football since elementary school) could call 80% of the plays correctly before they happened.

[Pidge]

I'm not going to blame individuals or exonerate individuals. As a unit the Offense sucked balls for all but one drive. (The ST didn't help them on another drive). One scoring drive out of ten is unacceptable. I'd be pissed off with that against the Steelers D. Against this Donkey D, utter bulls**t.

[redsbengalsbucks]

.There's plenty of blame to go around today (Coles and Bratkowski are my two top targets), but #9 ain't it.

I would rearrange it to my top two targets are BRAT and Coles. BRAT again comes out in the second half and forgets about the running game. Benson was not killing Denver, but it was working and keeping the D honest against the pass. Benson had two nice runs in the first half called back because of penalties adn a cauple of others that were down to 1 defender stopping a breakaway TD run. BRAT's new offense looks alot like his old offense, AGAIN.

[semiotter]

Here's the thing. He led them to what should have been the winning touchdown. You have to also admit that.

OH COME ONE! He didn't do crap against a pathetic team that UC would beat until the last buck fifty of the game. This team is a mess, will always be a mess. I am tired of it. Marvin needs to go. They need a QB that can run/elude people. They need an O line that can stop their own shadow. This game was PATHETIC. Even if they had won it was PATHETIC. Denver is a mess of a team and they took it to the GALS. PATHETIC! But hey, lets not forget that Brown is making money with this team. "How we looking?" "NOT GOOD"

1 post trolls just coming out of the woodworks today.

Amen Brother. After one game the WEAK are jumping ship. Let the fkers drown!!!

[Ickey44]

No way Carson is the reason for the offensive troubles. He completed close to 64% of his passes despite all the drops. The main problem IMO is the fact that teams don't respect our running game at all. They play two deep safeties and dare the Bengals to run. So of course the Bengals audible into running plays. The problem is they can't run effectively. There is a reason the Bengals were able to get Benson off the street and it has nothing to do with his off-field problems. He doesn't have a burst to get to the outside, and he lacks the vision to run between the tackles. The recurring theme that will haunt them the rest of the year is they can't run the ball when they need to.

I don't know what game that you were watching, but Ced got to the outside just fine. He's a tough runner and always falls forward for a couple of extra yards. He even had a couple of good runs after the catch yesterday.

You know, now that I think about it, a timely screen would've kept the Broncos from blitzing so much....if they could've executed it. I think that kind of logic escapes Brat, though. That's thinking outside the box.

[cincy9275]

No way Carson is the reason for the offensive troubles. He completed close to 64% of his passes despite all the drops. The main problem IMO is the fact that teams don't respect our running game at all. They play two deep safeties and dare the Bengals to run. So of course the Bengals audible into running plays. The problem is they can't run effectively. There is a reason the Bengals were able to get Benson off the street and it has nothing to do with his off-field problems. He doesn't have a burst to get to the outside, and he lacks the vision to run between the tackles. The recurring theme that will haunt them the rest of the year is they can't run the ball when they need to.

fatty no team is going to respect the run when you only run the ball 6 times in the second half. that's after you ran it 21 times in the first half. as for benson he is not elite but is no slouch. he was very effective yesterday he had 25 touches for 108 total yards and what should have been the game winning td. that's a good day for any starter. not his fault at all. just another exapmle of brat's erratic play calling once the pressure is on.

[ArmyBengal]

This is just silly.

There was one point in the game where Carson was 12-21 throwing the ball and had 7 dropped passes. SEVEN FREAKING DROPS. That didn't come from Carson being out, it didn't come from timing issues (as I feared), it came from the player failing to catch a ball that hit him in the hands or numbers. Carson was throwing well with the exception of a few passes that looked a little underthrown. The screen to Chad comes to mind.

Anyway, look at what they did that last drive and tell me if Carson can put that together in the remaining games, they are going to go 4-12.

I just don't see it.

Tim, take your Mike Brown rant somewhere else. We've heard it a million times and you can't add anything more to that.

Seriously, move on...

[ArmyBengal]

I only speak from facts of the last 5 seasons.

Only the facts that you choose to remember, that is.

Marvin coaching them to a division title and playoff appearance seems to have slipped your mind.

And it seems as if Carson leading what should have been a game winning drive in the 4th quarter went undetected as well.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot to be disgusted with today, but all 6 of your posts have been on the trollish side of things.

Shall we consider this his warning then???!

I took care of that...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It's about stupid football and mistakes, which are caused by stupid players.

Lance McAlister did a semi-decent job summarizing the offensive woes, that I don't have time for:

They doubled Denver in time of possession and yards at the half and trailed 3-0.

*The offense moved the ball in the first half...only to get in their own way

*Opening drive of game: Moving the ball...pass Henry, pass Chad...nice run Ced. Then Chad holds, Coats a drop and Coles a drop.

*2nd drive....moving the ball...3rd and 2...Coles drop

*Bad snap=no FG

*End 3rd qt....why did Caldwell bring the kickoff out that deep? Chad gets pass interference, Caldwell ran route short on 3rd and 2.

*Nice drive in 2nd quarter...Carson picked on tip by Champ.

*Jeremi dropped a pass on 1st down on opening drive of 3rd qt.

*Coles dropped a 3rd and 7

--------------------------------------

Stupid mistakes - drops, ST's errors left and right, missed blocks, missed assignments, etc.., When does that reflect on Marvin's inability to discipline and have his team ready? It's ridiculous, we've watched this act for years now. They are better than Denver on paper and still lose. They have enough over-all talent, they do not have the coaches or the brains to get it done.

Too many 3rd downs, where are the 10+ yard running plays more often? The 8 yard variety? How many were there, that Cedric got stoned at the LOS almost every other carry? Just look at his #'s on the day - he's a good RB - this line sucks ass, and I don't want to hear anymore excuses for them. They haven't been able to run the ball since 2005.

What were Crocker and Williams thinking on that last play? Does it take 3 guys to tackle a WR? If one of them maintains their responsibility and stays on Stokley, they win, but they didn't, they both went for the big hit after the tip. Stupid.

The good thing is these are correctable mistakes, I'm not sure how confident I am that they'll correct them over a season's time.

[JoePong]

When I started this thread I did not mean imply that Carson is the reason we lost. He is not the problem...but he has shown that he is not the answer either. This is a QB oriented league. Other top notch QBs just hve some intangible that makes them a leader, they find ways to win games they should win on a fairly consistent basis. In most matchups, it comes down to QB play, and the team with the superior QB play usually wins. Nobody wins every game, but upper echelon QBs like Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger etc, find ways to win games when they are matched up against "inferior" QBs. They overcome bad luck, bad plays, dropped balls, and all that and you kow they will somehow still win the game.

I am not sure what "IT" is, but whatever it is, it seems that Carson does not have it while many other QBs around the NFL do. And that is why Palmer is not an elite QB. He has elite physical skills and talent, but when it comes down to gettting it done, he imply doesn't. Yeah, he had one drive yesterday. But even with that, do you really expect to win an NFL game when you score 7 freakin' points? I am not as upset with the fluke play as I was simply because I stop to think that we scored only 7 points! Think about that...

[membengal]

How was the end of THIS game, and what Carson did, different from what Ben did? Roeth only led Pittsburgh to "10 freaking points" in regulation. 13 with OT. So, whoop dee do?

That's a dead serious question. Hell, end of Denver in 2006, when he led a comeback that was thwarted by Brad St. Louis, how was that his fault? End of Pittsburgh game, 2006, when he led them to winning and playoff clinching field goal range, and Graham missed it, how what that his fault?

It just is an attack not based in fact, JoePong.

He's not perfect, but the team has knifed more than a few of what should have been signaure game-winning drives from Palmer. Yesterday just another in a long line of same.

[Pidge]

I agree with you mem in general, except yesterday the whole offense stank. There was no heroics scuppered by a missed FG etc. Sure, it was a lovely drive but it was also the ONLY drive the offense really followed through on in the entire game. So congrats for that fellas, now let's work on maybe doing 2 or 3 times a game. Whaddya say?

We almost got away with one yesterday but do any of us really have any complaints about not coming away with the win, except with the disgusting, filthy manner in which they scored again? Sure we went ahead at the death but the offense was just awful for 90% of the time. Drops, missed blocks, penalties etc. Ugly.

The Donks would have had no cause for complaint had they lost either. In reality both teams deserved to lose.

I'm happy with Carson as our QB though, he's proved in the past he can get things done. He needs to start doing that again after a couple of so-so seasons and he'll need the preening millionaires on offense to help him out.

[JoePong]

How was the end of THIS game, and what Carson did, different from what Ben did?

Umm...Ben found a way to the win the game. You know, that's something that matters just a litle bit in the nfl. That's something he almost ALWAYS does, no matter what mistakes were made earlier in the game. Meanwhile, I can't remember the last game we won with Palmer as our starting QB. Can you?

[membengal]

Bulls**t answer, Joe.

Palmer found a way to win the game. They lost it on an all-time fluke. No difference between what Roeth did and Palmer did other than that.

[JoePong]

Bulls**t answer, Joe.

Palmer found a way to win the game. They lost it on an all-time fluke. No difference between what Roeth did and Palmer did other than that.

Ok...then what's the excuse for all the other games recently that were very winnable, that we just couldn't get over the hump, just couldn't make the ONE play which would have been the difference between a win and a loss. How many consecutive losses is this now for Palmer? But there's always some excuse with you, isn't there?

Bottom line is, Palmer did NOT find a way to win the game. We were completely blanked for 59 and a half minutes. Finding a way to win the game would have included taking adantage of at least one the opportunities along the way so we didn't lose on a "fluke" play. The game didn't begin with 38 seconds left.

[JoePong]

Bulls**t answer, Joe.

No difference between what Roeth did and Palmer did other than that.

Right. You just keep convincing yourself of that dude. Maybe it will help you sleep better as you watch Roethlisberger continue to rack up wins while Palmer continues to be "just one play away" from a win.

[Stripes]

This has already been covered, Pong. Roethlisberger managed 10 points in his regulation performance. Had Palmer put up three more, his performance would've been that much more brilliant? You don't believe anything you say. The troll tag should've been attached to you long ago.

[JoePong]

It's irrelevent how many points they put up. Some players do what it takes to win, some players don't. Winning a game could mean putting up only 3 points, or it could mean putting up 53 points.

It's like Aaron Harang,the pitcher for the Reds. If the reds score 1 run for him, he'll give up at least 2. If the Reds score 3 runs for him, he'll give up at least 4. If the Reds score 8 runs for him, he'll give up 9. That's why he is a loser. Other pitchers who are winners will do the opposite. If their team is only able to manage one run, they'll pitch a shut out. If their team puts up 6 runs, they'll make sure to give up at least one fewer.

[Clackwoods]

How was the end of THIS game, and what Carson did, different from what Ben did? Roeth only led Pittsburgh to "10 freaking points" in regulation. 13 with OT. So, whoop dee do?

That's a dead serious question. Hell, end of Denver in 2006, when he led a comeback that was thwarted by Brad St. Louis, how was that his fault? End of Pittsburgh game, 2006, when he led them to winning and playoff clinching field goal range, and Graham missed it, how what that his fault?

It just is an attack not based in fact, JoePong.

He's not perfect, but the team has knifed more than a few of what should have been signaure game-winning drives from Palmer. Yesterday just another in a long line of same.

Your completely on par with this one. In fact, this entire stupid ass thread is an example of some piss poor fans if you ask me. Here are my arguments for Carson:

1. Had Stokley not had GOD on his side, we would be instead speaking of how well the defense played and how Carson finally looked like he was getting his legs underneath him on that last drive. Instead you got people telling us we need to go and pick another franchise QB off the Quarterback tree growing out back.

2. He didn't play for an entire preseason and all of last year....Don't you f**ks think their is going to be some rust? Look at what happened to the great Peyton Manning last year, you think that their horrible start had anything to do with him missing an entire preseason? YES.... He had 3 tds and 4 INTs in his first 3 games...what did he do after that? Hmmm 24tds and 8 tds. I know that Carson isn't Peyton Manning, but when healthy he can at least play and hold his own on the same field as Manning.

3. Carson has been injury prone, yes, but at the same time when healthy he has been an elite QB. In his 3 healthy seasons prior to last he tossed 86tds and only 45 ints. He also had over 12000 yards. Who we gonna get to replace that? We gonna bring in Bradford, Tebow, or McCoy? Then you will be bitching about how the next three seasons are a wash as we wait for them to develop and by that time our young defense is suddenly a veteran defense.

This is about as stupid as a damn thread as the idiot that was calling Leon Hall selfish for trying to make a play on the ball. This place is really going down hill......Personally I am disgusted

[Clackwoods]

Bulls**t answer, Joe.

Palmer found a way to win the game. They lost it on an all-time fluke. No difference between what Roeth did and Palmer did other than that.

Ok...then what's the excuse for all the other games recently that were very winnable, that we just couldn't get over the hump, just couldn't make the ONE play which would have been the difference between a win and a loss. How many consecutive losses is this now for Palmer? But there's always some excuse with you, isn't there?

Bottom line is, Palmer did NOT find a way to win the game. We were completely blanked for 59 and a half minutes. Finding a way to win the game would have included taking adantage of at least one the opportunities along the way so we didn't lose on a "fluke" play. The game didn't begin with 38 seconds left.

Is their a way to ignore people so you can't see their posts on here?

"Bottom line is, Palmer did NOT find a way to win the game"<----------------:TD 0:38 Cedric Benson 1 yd run (Shayne Graham kick)

Plays: 11 | Yards: 91 | Time: 5:43

This situation sounds oddly familiar:

Down 16-13, San Francisco got the ball on their own eight yard line with 3:10 on the clock and marched 92 yards down the field in under three minutes. They then scored the winning touchdown on a Joe Montana pass to John Taylor with just 34 seconds left in the game.<-----------Had this bols**t happened in this game would you be talking about how Joe Montana couldn't get it done and how he didn't find a way to win the game???

[volcom69]

How was the end of THIS game, and what Carson did, different from what Ben did? Roeth only led Pittsburgh to "10 freaking points" in regulation. 13 with OT. So, whoop dee do?

That's a dead serious question. Hell, end of Denver in 2006, when he led a comeback that was thwarted by Brad St. Louis, how was that his fault? End of Pittsburgh game, 2006, when he led them to winning and playoff clinching field goal range, and Graham missed it, how what that his fault?

It just is an attack not based in fact, JoePong.

He's not perfect, but the team has knifed more than a few of what should have been signaure game-winning drives from Palmer. Yesterday just another in a long line of same.

Your completely on par with this one. In fact, this entire stupid ass thread is an example of some piss poor fans if you ask me. Here are my arguments for Carson:

1. Had Stokley not had GOD on his side, we would be instead speaking of how well the defense played and how Carson finally looked like he was getting his legs underneath him on that last drive. Instead you got people telling us we need to go and pick another franchise QB off the Quarterback tree growing out back.

2. He didn't play for an entire preseason and all of last year....Don't you f**ks think their is going to be some rust? Look at what happened to the great Peyton Manning last year, you think that their horrible start had anything to do with him missing an entire preseason? YES.... He had 3 tds and 4 INTs in his first 3 games...what did he do after that? Hmmm 24tds and 8 tds. I know that Carson isn't Peyton Manning, but when healthy he can at least play and hold his own on the same field as Manning.

3. Carson has been injury prone, yes, but at the same time when healthy he has been an elite QB. In his 3 healthy seasons prior to last he tossed 86tds and only 45 ints. He also had over 12000 yards. Who we gonna get to replace that? We gonna bring in Bradford, Tebow, or McCoy? Then you will be bitching about how the next three seasons are a wash as we wait for them to develop and by that time our young defense is suddenly a veteran defense.

This is about as stupid as a damn thread as the idiot that was calling Leon Hall selfish for trying to make a play on the ball. This place is really going down hill......Personally I am disgusted

I think alot of guys are still in shock, and they need to put the blame on someone, and Palmer is the easy guy to pick on. Your right he was probably rusty and might be rusty for alittle bit, so i think we should just give him so time to get this rust off. Once he gets the rust off and the offense gets going, i can only hope the defense keeps gettin better this team should be ok!

[slimjoe]

If he doesn't show he can finally get it done, it's time to find a new QB. He needs to start winning some matchups against supposedly "inferior" QBs. He needs to be able to convert enough to sustain drives long enough to put points on the board. He need to bne able to put the ball in the ednzone...something he hasn't done since 2005. Right now, he's the master of putting up passing yard stats, and that's about it.

[Stripes]

Absolute nonsense. I'd close this thread had I the power.

[slimjoe]

Worst yet is they need Cedric Benson to get them some yards and Palmer telegraphs his hand offs worst than a pee wee player.Its also time for Lewis to go.He was a good first year coach,but that was it.They should have got rid of Chad two years ago and then they would probably still have T.J.