Sea Ray Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 It all just sucks, but I find less reason to be upset with Smith and Keels with each passing day. I'm not upset with them. Rather, I simply have no faith whatsoever in the numbers being reported.Do you still feel that way after watching Hard Knocks last night? We all heard Katie say that she's not prepared to pay what the #7 pick got. Keels just said he wants slot money and Katie said she wouldn't do slot money. That pretty well clears it up and Katie's not lookin' too good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 It all just sucks, but I find less reason to be upset with Smith and Keels with each passing day. I'm not upset with them. Rather, I simply have no faith whatsoever in the numbers being reported.Do you still feel that way after watching Hard Knocks last night? We all heard Katie say that she's not prepared to pay what the #7 pick got. Keels just said he wants slot money and Katie said she wouldn't do slot money. That pretty well clears it up and Katie's not lookin' too goodKeels' twitter says he's going to "sneak in to Cincy" tomorrow after the game tonight and talk to Bengals' ownership...for what it's worth.Both sides need to do some compromising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregstephens Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Gvien that the original question of the thread has already long been answered, I edited the title for relevance's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattyjay Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Honestly, how far apart could they be? I have no experience in contract negotiations and I think I could get at least close to what the numbers should be. Shouldn't it be around 5 years @ $50mil with about $25mil guaranteed? Am I way off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwillycuse Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Part of me says just pay the man as well but at what cost. Its so top heavy its ridiculous. Pitt is paying peanuts to their first round pick. This gives them the ability to resign or go get proven free agents.The Browns trading down was smart because they got 3 bodies instead of one for the same price.Is Smith $10,000,000 better than the 12th pick?The Bengals arent way under the cap. They spend the same as other clubs. They just dont want to mortgage future for one pick.But it always comes off as being cheap?This all needs to change. It was suppose to benefit your team for drafting high. Now if you miss, it puts your team back a year or two. And guess what..a high pick next year. Prepare to pay 25% more than last year.Look at Oakland (Bey, McFadden, and QB(forgot his name - bust guy)) They paid all them ridiculous money and look where they are at.I just dont know what to think anymore. But I know the longer Smith sits out the less money he will(should) make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattyjay Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 So to update my guestimate, I looked at Gholston last year at the 6th pick and signed for 5yr. $50 mil $21 mil guaranteed. So they almost have to give him $25 mil guaranteed, why not go the 6 yr. route and offer between $54-$60 mil? I just wish some reporting would be more specific on what the disagreement is. Obviously I know that none of that will probably come out, but jeeze can they get the guy signed already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I have no experience in contract negotiations and I think I could get at least close to what the numbers should be.I'm not some sort of bigshot, far from it, but I do have a lot of experience negotiating contracts (lot less money involved than NFL 1st round picks though). And I can tell you Katie is going about it completely wrong. She's acting like what she is, a lawyer. She comes at Keels with a take it or leave it declaration over the phone, then clams up. This isn't a lawsuit that will result in a winner and a loser. She needs to forget the lawyer thing and start selling. Specifically, she needs to have Keels into the Bengals facility for a long face to face meeting. Sell him on what they're offering. Expound on how good it will make him look, how good it will be for his client. Even if it's bulls**t, do it.On breaks in that meeting, wine and dine him. Urge him to sign, and when he won't, make him declare what terms need changed to make him sign. Then after a few more hours, urge him to sign something that's better than what you offered last time. When he won't, ask him again what terms need changed. Keep doing that. Pretty soon, the pressure is on to sign something, anything, just to get it over with. And the adversarial, take it or leave it stuff gets toned down because you're working together towards a common goal - getting something signed. And during all this, you do nothing but cooperate with Keels, make him feel like he's getting something done, not just running into a brick wall. Shula's post about Keels' plan to visit the Bengals makes me think that he understands how to get something done. I wonder about Katie though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I wonder about Katie though.You think she's actually a dude to huh ?? I knew I wasn't the only one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 You think she's actually a dude to huh ?? I knew I wasn't the only one...Ha! Good one. You know, it could be worse. Instead of breaking her into the family business in the front office, Mike could have her out shaking her ass with the Ben-Gals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 You think she's actually a dude to huh ?? I knew I wasn't the only one...Ha! Good one. You know, it could be worse. Instead of breaking her into the family business in the front office, Mike could have her out shaking her ass with the Ben-Gals.She has not lips and I'm willing to bet she has no ass either. That's one grizzled piece of meat there. I put thoughts on her negotiating style in the HK#2 thread, so I won't do so again here except to say she's seems like she has no negotiating plan at all other than to say "it's sooooo much money." There are a number of factors involved, escalators, performance incentives, guaranteed bonus, so there's no point to focusing on overall money. Find what he wants among the above (or whether he just wants it to look like he got Smith a good deal) and get it done. Her "lawyer" training (yeah, I'm sure she's paid a lot of dues working weekends at the local law firm when she was in school) should have taught her that there are no absolutes and there is some risk in every position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 It all just sucks, but I find less reason to be upset with Smith and Keels with each passing day. I'm not upset with them. Rather, I simply have no faith whatsoever in the numbers being reported.Do you still feel that way after watching Hard Knocks last night? We all heard Katie say that she's not prepared to pay what the #7 pick got. Keels just said he wants slot money and Katie said she wouldn't do slot money. That pretty well clears it up and Katie's not lookin' too good I'm not sure what you're asking. Do I still feel the same way about Keels and Smith? Yeah, I do. I'm not mad at either of them. Do I still distrust the numbers being reported? Absolutely. Was I shocked to hear Katie state flatly that she wasn't prepared to offer slot money? Nope. I already knew they were playing hardball, right? That said, the one thing that did shock me was how Pumpkie linked the Bengals negotiating strategy to an average increase in salary of all first round picks....as if the six or seven perent increase seen in the latter part of the round has any bearing on Smith's negotiations. As for Katie's performance on Hard Knockers, I'd say she appears to be party out of her depth, not the supposedly incompetent and inexperienced Keel's. Furthermore, there's absolutely no way I would have agreed to be filmed taking THAT phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 As for Katie's performance on Hard Knockers, I'd say she appears to be party out of her depth, not the supposedly incompetent and inexperienced Keel's. Furthermore, there's absolutely no way I would have agreed to be filmed taking THAT phone call.This is the intriguing question to me. Surely the team has some right to bar the cameras from front office stuff, so did they think this call made pookie look sharp, or did they just miscalculate about how well she would handle it? I mean, damn, she looked lost. Keels sounded calm and reasonable and she looked like she was trying to get an extra $20 off the carpet cleaning....poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 As for Katie's performance on Hard Knockers, I'd say she appears to be party out of her depth, not the supposedly incompetent and inexperienced Keel's. Furthermore, there's absolutely no way I would have agreed to be filmed taking THAT phone call.This is the intriguing question to me. Surely the team has some right to bar the cameras from front office stuff, so did they think this call made pookie look sharp, or did they just miscalculate about how well she would handle it? I mean, damn, she looked lost. Keels sounded calm and reasonable and she looked like she was trying to get an extra $20 off the carpet cleaning....poorly.Well not only that but they get to see finished product before it airs encase they don't want something to air,They probably figure their winning over fans(which they have swayed a few on dotcom) because their taking a stand against big bad Andre & his evil agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Completely off topic, but a good place to redirect:I made a post about cheap jerseys in the General Conversation Forum for those interested. Some people don't pay attention to the other forums and I would hate for someone to miss out that may be interested.Back to your regularly scheduled holdout !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Completely off topic, but a good place to redirect.... Wait a minute. Didn't we all agree that any future thread derailments MUST involve some mention of Mehgan McCain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackwoods Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think Andre Smith needs to pull his head out of his ass. We could have went out and got someone else and let his boneheaded ass slip even further because of what he did before the combine. We did him a favor by getting him at six, he needs to get in here and play some football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwalling Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think Andre Smith needs to pull his head out of his ass.Makes him sound like the convict that smuggled a gun into prison in his flab. "Did you hear about the Bengals #1 draft pick? He's so FAT he could smuggle his head into minicamp in his ass!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think Andre Smith needs to pull his head out of his ass. We could have went out and got someone else and let his boneheaded ass slip even further because of what he did before the combine. We did him a favor by getting him at six, he needs to get in here and play some football!And had we drafted Eugene Monroe? How would it any different? He got huge increase from last years 8th pick...So he would be in the same boat as Andre....Andre doesn't have his head in his ass this is HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS It's a bad system but it's still the current one in place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think Andre Smith needs to pull his head out of his ass. We could have went out and got someone else and let his boneheaded ass slip even further because of what he did before the combine. We did him a favor by getting him at six, he needs to get in here and play some football!And had we drafted Eugene Monroe? How would it any different? He got huge increase from last years 8th pick...So he would be in the same boat as Andre....Andre doesn't have his head in his ass this is HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS It's a bad system but it's still the current one in place....Yep. Relative to draft picks and negotiating contracts, the Bengals seem to be under the mistaken impression that statements like "but it's so much money" are significant to anybody. Agents for players are going to strike the best deal they can because that's how they get paid and get their next client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Wait a minute. Didn't we all agree that any future thread derailments MUST involve some mention of Mehgan McCain?You know you'd hit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Yep. Relative to draft picks and negotiating contracts, the Bengals seem to be under the mistaken impression that statements like "but it's so much money" are significant to anybody. Agents for players are going to strike the best deal they can because that's how they get paid and get their next client.Heck doesn't even sound like keels is seeking best deal but pleading for a reasonable one just slightly above DHB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupdayta Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I really fault the Bengals for this one. They're offering him less money than Heyward-Bey and less money that last year's 6, Vernon Gholston. Are they nuts? Cheapskates. I just watched Hard Knocks Episode 2 and hearing Katie Blackburn talk to Smith's agent makes me sick. She's a chip off the old block, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Sounds like Keels really wants to get this done, i just wish they would suck it up and do it. I really hope Keels sneaks in tonight and get the deal done so we can move on from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Just another lost season for a number one pick. I wish the NFL would implement a slotting system to keep teams in line. You've got the imbalance of the Raiders versus the stinginess of the Bengals. Somehow that has to go away. They do such a good job of promoting the draft and their product in general but this is a major area of weakness for the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I guess Keels had problem booking a flight but supposed to schedule person to person meeting Sunday...Where keels may see if browns will do a 4year deal that be slightly less then DHB's avg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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