I'm still telling you the bandwagon is growing

[walzav29]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/cincinnati-bengals - click on Schein

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/powerrankings

Pat Kirwan said to watch them and now they are going on Hard Knocks.

The thing that sucks is every year there is a team that everyone loves and they flop. How is this team going to stay focused? I don't know. This could get dangerous. Hopefully Palmer can keep the young guys cool.

[ArmyBengal]

And don't forget ESPN's AFCN blogger, James Walker who was asked to represent the Bengals as one of two teams that could be this year's underdog...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-51...9-sleepers.html

Double Coverage: 2009 Sleepers

By ESPN.com's James Walker and Matt Williamson

Every season there is a sleeper team that comes out of nowhere and does major damage in the NFL. For the most recent example, look no further than the 2008 Arizona Cardinals, who were moments away from winning Super Bowl XLIII.

But picking this year's underdog in May could be a very difficult task.

That is why we recruited ESPN.com AFC North blogger James Walker and Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. to provide their sleeper picks for 2009 -- the Cincinnati Bengals and Seattle Seahawks, respectively -- who could most resemble last year's Cardinals.

Let's debate.

What makes the Bengals and Seahawks sleeper candidates for 2009?

James Walker: First of all, a sleeper is a team that very few people feel has a chance -- and the Bengals are certainly in that category. With one winning season since 1990, the Bengals have fallen off just about everyone's radar.

But when examining the Bengals closely, you notice they have two things that make for a dangerous club: a great quarterback and an improving defense.

Carson Palmer is still one of the league's top quarterbacks when healthy. In 2008, a season-ending elbow injury cut his campaign short and the Bengals quickly went in the tank with an 0-8 start and a 4-11-1 finish. Before that, he threw for more than 8,000 yards combined the two previous seasons.

Also, Cincinnati's defense is sneaky good. The Bengals finished No. 12 in the NFL defensively in 2008 during a season when the offense couldn't stay on the field or score points. Consider new additions such as defensive tackle Tank Johnson, rookie linebacker Rey Maualuga and veteran safety Roy Williams, and Cincinnati's D has the potential to crack the top 10 for the first time since 2001.

A No. 22-ranked strength-of-schedule doesn't hurt the Bengals, either.

Matt Williamson: Few teams were crushed by injuries like the Seahawks in 2008. The Seahawks won't be snakebitten like that in 2009. Also, overtaking Arizona to win the NFC West doesn't seem all that daunting a task. But, probably most importantly, I think that the Seahawks' passing game and defense should be vastly improved.

The Seahawks had just 35 sacks last season, but I expect that number to increase dramatically in 2009. It's possible the Seattle defense could record at least 45 sacks, as it did in 2007. The reason why is simple: This is a much-improved front seven. With the drafting of Aaron Curry, Seattle nabbed someone who is quite possibly the best and most NFL-ready defensive player from this past class. Now, there are few sets of starting linebackers in Seattle's class. But the Seahawks had a talented group of linebackers a year ago.

Where they are most improved is on the defensive line. Cory Redding is an up-and-down player, but he is versatile and could thrive in his new environment, especially in a rotational role. Colin Cole is more of a plugger in the middle than Redding, but that was an aspect that Seattle was lacking last year. It is imperative in allowing middle linebacker Lofa Tatupu to stay protected and attack ball carriers more freely.

Also in the middle, Brandon Mebane very well could take another step forward and another space eater, Red Bryant, could emerge in his second season. The defensive end situation also should be vastly improved. Lawrence Jackson, a 2008 first-round selection, could take a substantial step forward. His presence should help prevent Daryll Tapp from wearing down. Keeping with the theme of the Seahawks returning to health, defensive end Patrick Kerney also should log more playing time in 2009. He missed the last nine games of the 2008 season.

While all of these projected leaps might not occur, all the Seahawks need is a few of them to materialize. The linebackers are exceptional and an improved front four will decrease the pressure on the secondary and allow the linebackers to make plenty of big plays.

Dilip Vishwanat/Getty Images

Seneca Wallace's future in Seattle may be dim with the return of Matt Hasselbeck.

How stable is the quarterback situation for each team?

Matt Williamson: Matt Hasselbeck missed quite a bit of time last year with a back injury. By all accounts, including from Hasselbeck himself, his back is doing very well. He is expected to be at full strength when the season arrives. However, the back ailment is worrisome and Hasselbeck's age doesn't help alleviate concerns. With the fourth overall selection in the draft, Seattle passed on a chance to pick USC quarterback Mark Sanchez in favor of selecting Curry. Clearly, the Seahawks are in win-now mode and also feel confident that Hasselbeck's back will not be a problem this season.

The Seahawks seem much better set at the most important position on the field now. No offense to Seneca Wallace -- who substituted for Hasselbeck much of last season -- but there isn't a quarterback of the future presently on the roster and the backup situation is tenuous at best.

The Seahawks will go as far as Hasselbeck can take them and needless to say, in my opinion, that is much further than they went last season. He is surrounded with a now-exceptional group of pass catchers. The signing of T.J. Houshmandzadeh should be a steadying force in this regard and will open room up for Seattle's other receivers. Houshmandzadeh has caught at least 90 passes in each of the last three seasons. As a rookie, tight end John Carlson was the Seahawks' best pass catcher and should only improve in his second season -- especially with Houshmandzadeh in the fold. The chance that Deion Branch and Nate Burleson face as many injury problems in 2009 is slim, but still possible, given their history. But drafting Deon Butler looks like a prudent move; he's a dangerous slot option with rare speed. Hasselbeck could have a big season passing.

James Walker: Similar to Hasselbeck, Cincinnati's quarterback situation is as stable as Palmer's throwing elbow. So it is certainly a topic for debate.

Palmer, who didn't have off-season surgery, says he feels 100 percent. Yet the team has him on a pitch count during off-season workouts, which means there is at least some level of concern and caution internally from the team's perspective.

Throwing is fine, Palmer says, but his elbow will not be tested truly until it gets hit a few times. I doubt even Palmer knows for sure how well his arm will respond to the physical punishment from defensive linemen and linebackers.

Similar to last season, if Palmer goes down Cincinnati's season is over. But this is why the Bengals' offensive line is so important.

They drafted offensive tackle Andre Smith No. 6 overall to make sure Palmer doesn't have another season-ending injury. Talent-wise, Smith is one of the best players in this year's draft. But it will be important for the coaching staff to push Smith and get the best out of him. Cincinnati is going to pay Smith a contract in the range of $50 million, most likely to protect Palmer's blind side.

What problem areas could hold these teams back in 2009?

James Walker: Besides staying healthy, playing in the AFC North could be Cincinnati's biggest obstacle. The Bengals were 1-5 against the division in 2008 -- including 0-4 against the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens -- because they weren't physical enough on either side of the football.

The Bengals added pieces like Smith on offense and Williams and Maualuga on defense to help in those areas. But is that enough to topple the Steelers and Ravens, who both recently competed in the AFC title game?

Cincinnati's success or lack of success against Baltimore and Pittsburgh could be the difference between a below-average season and a breakthrough campaign.

Andy Lyons/Getty Images

After Chad Ocho Cinco battled injuries last season, football fans are waiting to see if he bounces back.

Another all-or-nothing scenario not many people considered involves No. 1 receiver Chad Ocho Cinco. The 31-year-old had one of his worst seasons in 2008, and he's also battled shoulder and ankle injuries in recent campaigns.

Is Ocho Cinco past his prime or can he return to his Pro Bowl form? Will he be motivated to play hard for the Bengals in 2009, where he's been unhappy the past couple of seasons?

As usual, there are a lot of questions surrounding Ocho Cinco. But Cincinnati desperately needs him, because he has the ability to bring the deep ball back to its offense.

Matt Williamson: Obviously some of the Seahawks' key contributors are up in age and have struggled with injury issues. Walter Jones and Matt Hasselbeck would obviously be the two who worry me most in this instance. It could be another long season for Seattle if Hasselbeck were to miss a substantial amount of time, as the backup quarterback situation isn't favorable. I don't believe that Wallace can orchestrate this precision passing game nearly to the level of Hasselbeck. The offensive line depth isn't as worrisome. Sean Locklear might be serviceable on the left side and Ray Willis can fill in at right tackle. Plus, rookie Max Unger has great position flexibility -- although I am expecting him to fortify the line up the middle more so than at tackle.

The weakest area of the Seahawks' roster to me is at running back. I don't trust this team to put away its opponents late in games on the ground or to score points consistently with its rushing attack. Julius Jones is a No. 2 back in my eyes and T.J. Duckett is very far from a personal favorite of mine. I expect the Seahawks' passing attack to be dangerous and in turn, it should open up a fair amount of room on the ground. Still, I am not going to pretend to like who Seattle has carrying the ball.

Lastly, I think there will be a drop off at head coach. Mike Holmgren is one of the best head coaches and offensive minds of this era and replacing him will not be an easy task for Jim Mora Jr. With Mora -- a defensive-minded head coach -- at the helm, the Seahawks' offense could suffer. But with such a veteran presence like Hasselbeck behind center, that surely should help the coaching transition. Still, Mora coached the secondary last season and few defenses were worse on the back end in coverage. Adding Ken Lucas should help from a size and experience perspective, but this can't be overlooked considering it should have been Mora's main focus.

Of the Bengals and Seahawks, which sleeper team has the better season?

Matt Williamson: Not surprisingly, I am going with the Seahawks. First, this is a team that was recently in the Super Bowl and is very used to winning. That certainly cannot be said for the Bengals. Seattle has an exceptional blend of veteran leadership and fantastic young talent, while player leadership in Cincinnati is always hard to find. That brings me to my next point: Character. The Seahawks are loaded with high-character individuals and well, there are some questions in this department with the Bengals. I will leave it at that. When the going gets tough, as it always does at some point during an NFL season, how will the locker room react in each respective city? Exactly.

Also, it wouldn't be a stretch at all to say that the Bengals are just the third-best team in their division behind Pittsburgh and Baltimore. It is a smidge early to start predicting regular season games, but I am penciling in Cincinnati as 1-3 versus these two teams -- at best. Can the Bengals go 7-5 (or 8-4) in games not involving the Ravens or Steelers just to reach the .500 mark? The Bengals don't appear to face an especially frightening slate of games, but it isn't a walk in the park, either.

Meanwhile, Seattle plays in the NFC West. Although Arizona won the division and was within minutes of a Super Bowl victory, I am not sold that the Cardinals are light years beyond the Seahawks right now. I also put Seattle ahead of the San Francisco 49ers, who could be improved, and of course, the St. Louis Rams, who very well could be the worst team in the league next year. With a great home-field advantage, the Seahawks should be able to finish 4-2 or even 5-1 in their division.

James Walker: Sorry, Matt. But I'm taking the Bengals on this one.

At least Cincinnati had one side of the football figured out last year with its defense. The Seahawks were awful in every facet of the game in 2008, and despite several changes, I don't see them magically improving the No. 28-ranked offense and No. 30-ranked defense all in one season -- especially with a new head coach.

The easier division does help, but I think Arizona is going to be more consistent in the regular season than it was a year ago when it finished 9-7. That should make Seattle's jump even more difficult.

But I agree, Matt, that both teams have a shot to surprise. I just like Cincinnati's quarterback and defense giving the Bengals a better chance to succeed.

[Clackwoods]

Any other team with a top 5 QB is constantly in the playoffs. Their is no excuse for this team not to make it. I really think with the additions that we have made that we are a playoff team and we can beat both the Ravens (Who aren't even going to make the playoffs this year) and the Steelers.

[walzav29]

I think the Bengals burned the "experts" who picked them a couple of seasons ago, and they thing it's back to the bad old days for us. I disagree. The question is can this team keep their cool?

[F.Cleveland]

I think the Bengals burned the "experts" who picked them a couple of seasons ago, and they thing it's back to the bad old days for us. I disagree. The question is can this team keep their cool?

Agreed. The key this season is the difference in vets. I love warriors like Willie and even CD but you can't learn NFL swagger in a place like PBS has been. We brought in people who have had success in the past and will not be afraid of the Steelers or Ravens. We are a good comination of young and experienced. There is no reason to think we are anything like last year or even the years past. That's not to say we go 16-0, because if we fail it will be a new team and a new culture failing. If we keep our cool and act like we've been there before even when it gets tough then I see playoff tickets as something I'll have to save up for.

[Bearcat1975]

Their is no excuse for this team not to make it. I really think with the additions that we have made that we are a playoff team and we can beat both the Ravens (Who aren't even going to make the playoffs this year) and the Steelers.

1. We replaced TJ with Coles. Coles hasn't had TJ's production, but Coles hasn't soured on the Bengals like TJ had. So assuming Coles isn't just another Westbrook, I see this as a best case scenario given the TJ situation. But if we are strictly talking stats, I do not believe Coles can match TJ's production here. The void TJ leaves will have to be filled in by Caldwell, Henry, Coles, or some combination of the 3.

2. We replaced Andrews and Guichaic with 2 rookies. We hope the rookies are better than who they just replaced.

3. Roy Williams for depth. We hope he reverts to the Roy Williams of old. Same with Tank.

4. We hope Keith Rivers has recovered and will be invigorated by being reunited with his old LB teammate.

5. We hope Carson can stay healthy and return to the Carson of old.

6. We hope Chad won't be a bad influence on the young guys and an overall negative impact on the team.

We are all giddy about the draft, but we won't really know if it was a good draft until after a few seasons. Beyond the draft, I'm not sure I would agree that we upgraded anywhere at this point. Isn't it pretty much last year's squad minus TJ and 2/5th of a poor offensive line + this year's rookie class? We have an easier schedule so they say, but with the parity in the NFL I think it is too early to say whether a schedule is easy of difficult at this point.

I mean if this is just another "go team!" offseason thread that's fine. But I am just curious what the foundation is, if any, in your belief that the Bengals are a playoff team, that the Ravens are not, and that we will beat the Steelers.

I checked the Vegas lines the other day, just to see if I am being disproportionately hard on our Bengals. Vegas has the over under at 6 wins which matches my prediction based on my "if I were a betting man, I'd say..." best guess. Would your money be on the Bengals making the playoffs (reason) or just your heart (faith)?

[derekshank]

I checked the Vegas lines the other day, just to see if I am being disproportionately hard on our Bengals. Vegas has the over under at 6 wins which matches my prediction based on my "if I were a betting man, I'd say..." best guess. Would your money be on the Bengals making the playoffs (reason) or just your heart (faith)?

Fair enough... but those lines are weighted with the perception of a team more than their actual skill level. They need people to bet on both sides of the number. Most NFL fans know the Bengals had only 4 wins last year, and are not likely to bet the over if the number was 8. Vegas picked 6 because approximately half of betting fans will think the Bengals still suck, while half think they can do better. It's hardly a true reflection of what the Bengals will actually do.

That said... "If I were a betting man" I'd take the over on that 6 wins, but certainly wouldn't bet on them making the playoffs.

[Bearcat1975]

That said... "If I were a betting man" I'd take the over on that 6 wins, but certainly wouldn't bet on them making the playoffs.

I certainly wouldn't take the under either. I think even if Palmer goes down they have to have 6 wins in them.

10-6 would make the playoffs, so in using reason over faith you have the Bengals somewhere between 6-10 and 9-7, while missing the playoffs.

I agree.

So with all that being said... "bandwagon?" Really?

[ArmyBengal]

I think even if Palmer goes down they have to have 6 wins in them.

I don't and this is not a judgement on you in the least, but if people are thinking 6 wins WITH Carson at the helm, it's damn near impossible to even fathom anything close to 6 with a JT O'Sullivan in there. Bottomline, this team will succeed or fail based on Carson being under center.

Sure there are other facets of the game that need to come online and they've been repeatedly discussed, but Carson is what's going to bring it all together.

Without Carson, I say we are looking at about 4 wins again.

[derekshank]

I think even if Palmer goes down they have to have 6 wins in them.

I don't and this is not a judgement on you in the least, but if people are thinking 6 wins WITH Carson at the helm, it's damn near impossible to even fathom anything close to 6 with a JT O'Sullivan in there. Bottomline, this team will succeed or fail based on Carson being under center.

Sure there are other facets of the game that need to come online and they've been repeatedly discussed, but Carson is what's going to bring it all together.

Without Carson, I say we are looking at about 4 wins again.

Well, the Bengals managed 4.5 wins last year with Fitzpatrick at QB and a brutal schedule.

I do think O'Sullivan is better than Fitz, and also think the schedule is quite a bit easier. So if Palmer gets hurt, I could see them getting up to 6 wins... depending on when the injury takes place.

But as I've said before... the success of this team relies on the success of the O-Line. If they can block for the running game and give Palmer time, this could be a team to be reckoned with. If not, it's possible that 6 wins is their cap this year.

[ArmyBengal]

When we were looking at getting a backup QB, I said O'Sullivan based on the fact that I hated the others more, but not based on any type of actual ability to play the QB position. That being said, if the o-line were to give him some time, then sure it's still within reason. I'm not going to be so willing to just throw it out there as a definitive as I am right now that 6 wins will happen.

[Bearcat1975]

When we were looking at getting a backup QB, I said O'Sullivan based on the fact that I hated the others more, but not based on any type of actual ability to play the QB position. That being said, if the o-line were to give him some time, then sure it's still within reason. I'm not going to be so willing to just throw it out there as a definitive as I am right now that 6 wins will happen.

So if you were a betting man, would you take the over or under on Vegas' 6 win prediction for the Bengals? Seems like you are saying 6 wins should be no problem with Palmer, but unlikely with O'Sullivan.

I see at least 6 wins regardless of the QB so I would take the over. But not much over with either.

[ArmyBengal]

When we were looking at getting a backup QB, I said O'Sullivan based on the fact that I hated the others more, but not based on any type of actual ability to play the QB position. That being said, if the o-line were to give him some time, then sure it's still within reason. I'm not going to be so willing to just throw it out there as a definitive as I am right now that 6 wins will happen.

So if you were a betting man, would you take the over or under on Vegas' 6 win prediction for the Bengals? Seems like you are saying 6 wins should be no problem with Palmer, but unlikely with O'Sullivan.

I see at least 6 wins regardless of the QB so I would take the over. But not much over with either.

As it stands right now with a healthy (?) Carson, I would take the over 6. I guess to clarify, I should have said we won't win 6 if JT is starting from the get go. In relooking, I'm pretty confident he could get a us several on his on, should Carson go down after a few games like last year.

[Jet23]

This team can win anywhere from 4 to 12 games. There are more variables associated with this team, than any in recent memory:

* Carson's health

* Can Benson finally give them a consistent running game

* Can Paul Alexander formulate very talented players into a good OL

* The maturation of the young receivers

* Young receiver staying out of jail

* Big mouth receiver keeping his trap shut

* Keith Rivers strong sophomore season?

* Will Tank help to free up Odom & Geathers

* Can Luigs mature fast enough

* Can a promising draft pay immediate dividends

If you put a gun to my head, I would say 9-7, but there is hope for a lot better.

[Kazkal]

didn't a 11-5 team miss the playoffs last year?

[HoosierCat]

The only thing I'm worried about is injuries.

Really, that's it. All the rest is secondary, even tertiary.

Definitely for the past two seasons and arguably for the past three, the injury bug has lit into this team like Mothra taking out scale-model halftracks. Last season, we were the most-injured team in the league.

Make. It. Stop.

If this team can stay healthy, they can win 10-12 games.

If the song remains the same, 6 may be the high-water mark.

[Ickey44]

I predict that I don't know what will happen.

[volcom69]

The O-Line is what scares me the most, a bunch of rookies, and we dont even know who the center is yet. They all have to learn to gel toghter to help protect the one thing that will keep this team wining.

Will Chad Johnson show up and play his heart out or will he let everything else get in his way, this also bothers me a bit.

With that said i have never been so excited to watch the defense play, and if they play as good as i think they can it should be fun to watch them fly and hit all over the field.

Im not predicting playoffs for them just yet its way to early i want to see how they look in training camp, but i just didnt see the Ravens, or the Steelers get any worse this offseason. Every year though things happen teams fall and teams rise so there is a good chance maybe the Bengals will be back. Im just tired of getting excited everyyear then they come out and suck then im just disapointed all over again.

[COB]

like Mothra taking out scale-model halftracks.

A Mothra reference. Awesome. And in that vein,

"He picks up a bus and he throws it back down

As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town"

[Wraith]

COB half the posters on this site have never even heard of Blue Oyster Cult, I on the other hand was a big fan of the Godzilla cartoon when I was about 9, I remember always catching the last half of the farm report because Godzilla was the first Saturday morning cartoon.

[HoosierCat]

"Oh no! There goes Tokyo! GO GO GODZILLA!"

Wraith: the Godzilla cartoon sucked, except for Godzooky of course who was so lame he was cool.

I miss 'Zilla, Mothra, Rodan, Mechagodzilla, Kong, Mechakong, King friggin' Ceasar, Gigantis, Angirus, Megalon, King Ghidra, the Crab Monster, and all the rest. They just don't make man-in-big-rubber-suit-smashing-up-a-model movies any more.

[BengalPimp]

I asked Barack Obama if the Bengals can make the playoffs...........

.......His response? YES WE CAN !!!!!!!!!

[derekshank]

I'm not sure why... but this Godzilla talk reminded me of this old classic.

[HoosierCat]

Ahh, the classics, thank you, derek.

And of course, no Godzilla thread is complete with a scene from Tokyo's hippest, hottest, most happenin' club..

Man, I WANT that guy's shirt and tie for next Halloween!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Ah, good old BOC. Wasn't "Don't fear the reefer" the theme of the '06 Bengals?