Marvin has shown that he will make changes

[walzav29]

They've been saying changes are coming for 8 weeks. Maybe they are waiting unti lafter the playoffs or something, but something has to get done. They sucked this year and a crappy 4-3-1 record against crappy teams doesn't change anything. Something will get done.

[DesperateDerelict]

Now, if idiot-Mikey was half bright, he'd take advantage of the situation in Denver -

1) Get rid of Bratkowski, and hire Rick Dennison. He's been the Donkey's OL coach since 1995, and is now their Offensive Coordinator. Author of the zone blocking scheme, and at least as responsible as Shanahan for Denver finding / identifying / creating so many great running backs

2) Dump the WORST DL coach in the NFL (Hayes) and hire Jacob Burney. He coached with Marvin in Baltimore ('94 - 98), and has done very well with the talent on hand - including a great job with Carolina in 99 - '02.

[HairOnFire]

2) Dump the WORST DL coach in the NFL (Hayes) and hire Jacob Burney. He coached with Marvin in Baltimore ('94 - 98), and has done very well with the talent on hand - including a great job with Carolina in 99 - '02.

I see I'm not the only one scanning the wires for news about just fired defensive line coaches.

[Bearcat1975]

How the Hayes Brothers or Brat are still employed at this point is beyond me.

[UK Bengal]

if marvin does not do the following then he looses all my respect as a coach.

Fire- Brat, anderson, hayes

[GregCook]

if marvin does not do the following then he looses all my respect as a coach.

Fire- Brat, anderson, hayes

Sure there will be changes in coaches and players. I got to think that a significant number of season ticket holders are debating renewal right now. Its good income to the Brown family and Mike is smart enough to know he has to throw them a bone to keep the interest up. Standing pat won't work. He'll throw a few coaches under the bus soon. If Marvin does nothing then he is asking for all the blame if 2009 is another bad year.

[combatbengal]

There aren't going to be that many if any changes. Everybody was happy with the three straight wins at the end of the season, which demonstrated to the organization that there aren't any needs to change. They are on a winning streak and think that taking the streak into next season will be enough to turn this around. The thought process is that there isn't anything wrong with the O line. They had injuries which caused the decrease in performance. That'll be better next year when our guys heal up. Yea right! The def showed a ton of improvement at the end of the season, and we can work with what we have. Yea!

[HairOnFire]

Sure there will be changes in coaches and players. I got to think that a significant number of season ticket holders are debating renewal right now. Its good income to the Brown family and Mike is smart enough to know he has to throw them a bone to keep the interest up. Standing pat won't work. He'll throw a few coaches under the bus soon.

Blah, blah, blah. For all of the talk about how upset the local dinks might be I can't seem to forget how the Bengals have consistently sold out every home game for more than 5 years running. Oh, and if that suddenly changes this year it will be do to the most severe economic crisis in 75 years, not because because the buying public has finally had it's eyes opened about Mike Brown.

[HoosierCat]

I think there will be some coaching changes, but it's probably wise of the Bengals not to rush in. We have, what, four-five teams out there in search of HCs and/or GMs, and when those decisions get made, more assistants will likely hit the streets.

[Orange and black fanatic]

Combat is right on. Mike Brown can convince himself that changes don't need to be made because they would cost more money and/or they might undermine his totalitarian hold on his empire.

I think Mike Brown is more frightened of assertive, effective coaches than anything in the world, except maybe an effective, strong-willed general manager.

Mike Brown is a small and weak man, incapable of building or improving anything on his own.

[combatbengal]

The painting is on the wall. Most of the fans on this board were happy about the last three wins. They rather see the Bengals finish ahead of the Clown instead of getting a better draft pick or seeing changes that will improve the teams future performance. Other teams have already fired coaches, GM's and plan on cutting players who haven't performed. What has the Bengals done? Here are a few things that have been written so far:

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis would not say if there will be coaching changes following his team's 4-11-1 effort in 2008.

On Monday, a day after the Bengals won their third game in a row to finish 2008 with a 4-11-1 record, Marvin Lewis was vague when asked if he anticipated changes to his coaching staff.

For fans awaiting sweeping or significant offseason moves from the Bengals, don't hold your breath. Three straight wins should be enough ammunition to give Bengals management confidence to stay the course into next season

Once again, lets take some notes from the Dolphines play book. They hired a new GM, a new head coach, got rid of some players and brought in some play makers. In one year, they went from being 1-15 to Division champs. I'm not football god or expert, but I think that this is the way to go.

[volcom69]

I agree its not looking good as far as signing any new coaching staff, any GM, any new scouts to help out. How can they sit here and say they are good on offense....they finished last. This year had to be the worst play calling i have ever seen and Marvin or Mike dosnt even care. Whatever it will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason now.

[COB]

The painting is on the wall. Most of the fans on this board were happy about the last three wins. They rather see the Bengals finish ahead of the Clown instead of getting a better draft pick

I'm one of those fans. Play the games to win, let the draft chips fall where they may.

And I am really happy about the last three wins. Because I've seen the flip side to that three win coin. Specifically the last three games of '06. We were fighting for a playoff spot and we lost all three. And they were disheartening losses that cast a pall over this team. Those losses gave me a sick feeling, like we'd been exposed as a team that couldn't handle adversity. And our '07 campaign and the first three fourths of our '08 proved that was exactly what we were.

At least in those last three games we weren't the emotionally fragile, physically weak , Chad Johnson infected, bunch of pu**ies we'd been for the last 32 games. For the last three games the Bengals physically beat on people, ran the ball, and played defense. Pretty much the negative to the picture of what we were in the past.

Fire Brat and Alexander please. But I feel better after this 4 win season than I did after our 8 win season in '06.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm one of those fans happy about the 3 win streak to end the season as well. I'm NOT one of those fans that think it really carries over to the start of next season or can make THAT big of an impact as to the future of the team when you consider the new players and possibly new coaches who have different opinions than how things were carried out this season. So I don't hold much stock in it from that standpoint.

I also absolutely LOVE the fact the Browns, who many thought were going to beat out the Steelers for the Division this year finsihed dead last behind a Bengals team led by Nutzpatrick for 12 games and that we beat their asses at the end of the season. L-O-V-E love it !!! I don't care that the wins at the end of the season cost us a few draft slots for a couple of reasons.

#1. If we stay put at 6, there will be an impact player available in a position of need.

#2. The 6 position would make it easier to trade down as the position doesn't cost as much as a top 5 pick would for a team to trade into.

Anyway around I also don't see the argument that the last three wins will cause the organization to stay put on coaches and the direction of the team. Does anyone think that ONLY the fans understand we beat a hapless group of Washington (finished 8-8), the Browns, and the Chiefs to end the season ?? You can't expect me to believe the organization can't figure out we beat a group of turds to end the season...

What I also know to be truth with the Bengals is they don't rush to make any decisions in regards to coaches or players right of the bat. They are usually really vague about things like that and then out of nowhere people will be gone. I say hold tight and see what happens before getting panties all bunched up.

We also can't expect HUGE DRAMATIC changes either. Remember last year when they were going to "blow it up" ?? And what did that equate to ?? A new DC and linebackers coach. That was their idea of blowing it up. So if Brat and maybe the o-line coach go, that would be about it. I would ok with that, but I just wouldn't expect that much more from the team.

So, overall I'm just enjoying the fact the Browns sucked more balls than most teams this year, finished below us in the standings, and that 2008 is over !!!

Happy New Year !!!

[combatbengal]

Anyway around I also don't see the argument that the last three wins will cause the organization to stay put on coaches and the direction of the team. Does anyone think that ONLY the fans understand we beat a hapless group of Washington (finished 8-8), the Browns, and the Chiefs to end the season ?? You can't expect me to believe the organization can't figure out we beat a group of turds to end the season...

Army, I love you like a brother. Brother in arms, but don't get caught up in this idea of thinking the Bengals know what they're doing. Look at all the years the team and fans have suffered and we never see big changes to turn this thing around. Look at all the players that leave the Bengals for a better team and then some how start to play. They start making tackles, start covering WR's, etc. The other teams at the bottom of the barrel have already identified problems and issues and have already started to take action. Look at what the Fins did last season. They made so many changes during the off season that got them the division championship. The fans, the city, and even some of the players have waited long enough for changes. The time is now. I agree with getting rid of Bret, but will it happen? Who knows.

[HoosierCat]

Army, I love you like a brother. Brother in arms, but don't get caught up in this idea of thinking the Bengals know what they're doing. Look at all the years the team and fans have suffered and we never see big changes to turn this thing around. Look at all the players that leave the Bengals for a better team and then some how start to play. They start making tackles, start covering WR's, etc.

"All the players"? Only one I can think of is Kevin Walter. Maybe Ben Wilkerson. But other than that...?

Steinbach, Corey and Takeo were all great players in Cincy. After they left...not so much. Steiny is still fine, Corey had a couple good years left, but went downhill pretty fast, and TKO has bounced around the league not really doing anything special. Keiwan Ratliff isn't doing much in Indy, just as he didn't do much in Cincy. K2 didn't get any better in NO. LB Marcus Wilkins, a teams backer Atlanta paid $1 million a year for because they thought they could get more out of him...lasted a year.

How about this year's crop of free agents and cuts? Let's see, Ahmad Brooks never played a down. Landon Johnson had 14 tackles and a forced fumble all year for Carolina. Madieu went to Minnesota, promptly got hurt again, and missed more than half the season. Justin had a typical Justin year in San Fran, 7 sacks, meaning the 9ers paid him slightly more than $1 million a sack. Nice work if you can get it. Rudi had 237 yards and one TD rushing for the 0-16 Lions. Willie Anderson is starting for Baltimore, but while I think cutting him was a bad move, he hardly "somehow started to play" once he got to Balti.

[COB]

Look at all the players that leave the Bengals for a better team and then some how start to play.

A change of scenery often prompts a player to turn it up a notch. Cedric Benson comes to mind. Also, Sean Rogers would have likely continued to eat his way out of the league had he stayed in Detroit, but going to Cleveland reenergized him.

I think you are right about the Bengals not making huge changes all at once. New DC and new OC in the same year might have been too much change for the organization to try to digest/accomodate/adjust to. So new DC for '08, and new OC for '09 (I hope).

Mike Brown might be gun shy regarding wholesale change, ie bringing in completely new coaching staff all at once. He's had it blow up in his face a couple times and I think he's cautious because of that. The performance of the Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet, Dick LeBeau triumverate would make anyone think twice about bringing in a new coach or large staff changes. And in the case of Mike Brown, his confidence in his own ability to select a head coach is probably lower than, uh..., er..., something that is really really low.

And this line of thinking brings to mind one of my alltime favorite posts in Bengalzone. Right after Detroit fired their GM, =Dimster posted something like, "Welcome your new GM Bengal fans, Matt Millen!"

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not going to sit here and make the claim the Bengals front office is somehow the second coming of Christ, but I am saying we need to sit and see what happens before getting all up in arms. We got a new DC and linebackers coach and the defense jumped to 12th in the league. I'm good with that and can only hope to see the same on the offensive side of the ball. Speaking of which, Fitzgerald has got to get some mad credit for what he did with the linebacking corps this year. Him and Zimmer were HUGE for the team !!!

[sparky151]

I'd rather we finished 1-14-1 just so Mike Brown couldn't cling to any delusions that changes are needed. You have to remember that his default mode is to do nothing and it takes alot to get him out of default mode. Marvin talked about blowing things up last year and it meant a couple of coaching changes and the release of a few vets. Big deal. We need a new OC, get rid of the Hayes brothers and need new starters at several positions on offense.

Heck, we'll be lucky if our defense doesn't regress and the offense makes it up to 12-15th. That's just with Carson healthy and an easy schedule. This team could be a playoff team next year but we pretty much all know that Mike Brown isn't going to take any chances so we'll miss the playoffs again.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I think there will be some coaching changes, but it's probably wise of the Bengals not to rush in. We have, what, four-five teams out there in search of HCs and/or GMs, and when those decisions get made, more assistants will likely hit the streets.

As far as hiring new people, yes, no rush, but knowing who you want to let go, or in this case not knowing, is very a-typical of the Bengals' incompetence, coaches or FO people would've/should've been let go by now. The Bengals don't have a plan and apparently didn't make any conclusions late in the season about a different direction. This is all very typical and I see no hope of them doing much at all.

[HairOnFire]

I'm one of those fans. Play the games to win, let the draft chips fall where they may.

Agreed. How ironic is all of the talk about meaningless Bengal wins? And how ridiculous is the idea that the way to better days begins with losing games on purpose? Is the next Bengal head coach supposed to address his team for the first time by saying..."Okay men, when the time is right we're going to start trying to win games again. No kidding, sometime in my second or third season I'm going to ask everyone to turn it on for real. Be ready. And most important, between now and then....don't get hurt."

But I feel better after this 4 win season than I did after our 8 win season in '06.

I wouldn't say I feel better, but I will agree the 2006 letdown, and the equally frustrating 2007 season, both seem like flailing attempts to salvage whatever was left of the 2005 playoff team. By comparison, the bottomed out 2008 team seems like the first attempts to build something new. So there's that.

[Bearcat1975]

Because of revenue sharing around the NFL, the only incentive to get Mike Brown to make any changes, would be if half the luxury box owners decide not to renew; no one takes their place; and when asked, they all say they chose not to renew because of the Bengals lack of commitment to winning.

Beyond those unlikely circumstances, there is zero incentive for Mike Brown to change anything. Heck, the Bengals are on a winning streak!

Happy Same Year, everyone.

[GregCook]

Because of revenue sharing around the NFL, the only incentive to get Mike Brown to make any changes, would be if half the luxury box owners decide not to renew; no one takes their place; and when asked, they all say they chose not to renew because of the Bengals lack of commitment to winning.

Beyond those unlikely circumstances, there is zero incentive for Mike Brown to change anything. Heck, the Bengals are on a winning streak!

Happy Same Year, everyone.

Seems that way doesn't it? Mike Brown is a businessman and the Bengals are his business. Does anyone know if MB has other significant businesses or revenue besides the Bengals? Assuming he doesn't, the only way he'll change is when the product doesn't sell. With Marvin he's had sellouts right? As we all know though, he'll never give up control to a powerful GM, at best it will be another coach and by then Carson will be 2 years older. I really have no expectation of watching the Bengals play after the New Year. Not with the proven record of Mike Brown and Mike and Marvin's proven record of bad drafting.

By the way, Andre Smith declared for the draft.

[ArmyBengal]

Smith won't last until #6, but I'm ok with that...

[Orange and black fanatic]

I still see zero evidence of changes beyond the possible leaving of free agents. No coaching changes unless they take a job elsewhere, but who would want anyone from this crappy team?

Like I said, Mike Brown has all the evidence HE needs to support his "no changes needed" position because Palmer will be back next season. In MB's mind, clearly injuries are the only reason this team did not win the Super Bowl. So, healthy with these players and coaches = lots of wins.

He is beyond stupid. He is insane. Lewis isn't far behind unless he is just milking Mike for all he can get, like the rest of the team's personnel and coaches.