Once again...

[Spor_tees]

Once again one of Marvin's largest deficiencies as a coach cost the Bengals a win. His inability to work clock management is baffling! That time-out left at the end of the game sure was helpful huh? I mean if he calls that timeout before the Chapman catch, the Bengals would have saved AT LEAST 15 seconds. The Bengals then could have spiked the ball to stop the clock, had 2 shots to score (and win the game), and if they didn't score a TD, could have kicked the FG. Anyone who continues to say that Marvin is a good coach is totally out of touch of reality. The Bengals have not won games the last few years because of Marvin, they have won INSPITE of Marvin!

[CarsonDaMan]

Once again one of Marvin's largest deficiencies as a coach cost the Bengals a win. His inability to work clock management is baffling! That time-out left at the end of the game sure was helpful huh? I mean if he calls that timeout before the Chapman catch, the Bengals would have saved AT LEAST 15 seconds. The Bengals then could have spiked the ball to stop the clock, had 2 shots to score (and win the game), and if they didn't score a TD, could have kicked the FG. Anyone who continues to say that Marvin is a good coach is totally out of touch of reality. The Bengals have not won games the last few years because of Marvin, they have won INSPITE of Marvin!

Actually that falls on Carson. He went up with the intention of spiking the ball but decided to go ahead and run a play. By the time he got the signals out and moved around wayyy too much time had run off. It was stupid either way you look at it but it's also just as stupid to sit here and blame that on Marvin. I saw some missed tackles today was that Marvins fault as well?

[gregstephens]

Once again one of Marvin's largest deficiencies as a coach cost the Bengals a win. His inability to work clock management is baffling! That time-out left at the end of the game sure was helpful huh? I mean if he calls that timeout before the Chapman catch, the Bengals would have saved AT LEAST 15 seconds. The Bengals then could have spiked the ball to stop the clock, had 2 shots to score (and win the game), and if they didn't score a TD, could have kicked the FG. Anyone who continues to say that Marvin is a good coach is totally out of touch of reality. The Bengals have not won games the last few years because of Marvin, they have won INSPITE of Marvin!

Actually that falls on Carson. He went up with the intention of spiking the ball but decided to go ahead and run a play. By the time he got the signals out and moved around wayyy too much time had run off. It was stupid either way you look at it but it's also just as stupid to sit here and blame that on Marvin. I saw some missed tackles today was that Marvins fault as well?

I nominate Levi 'No-Show' Jones as my scapegoat of the game. He sucked.

[Spor_tees]

Once again one of Marvin's largest deficiencies as a coach cost the Bengals a win. His inability to work clock management is baffling! That time-out left at the end of the game sure was helpful huh? I mean if he calls that timeout before the Chapman catch, the Bengals would have saved AT LEAST 15 seconds. The Bengals then could have spiked the ball to stop the clock, had 2 shots to score (and win the game), and if they didn't score a TD, could have kicked the FG. Anyone who continues to say that Marvin is a good coach is totally out of touch of reality. The Bengals have not won games the last few years because of Marvin, they have won INSPITE of Marvin!

Actually that falls on Carson. He went up with the intention of spiking the ball but decided to go ahead and run a play. By the time he got the signals out and moved around wayyy too much time had run off. It was stupid either way you look at it but it's also just as stupid to sit here and blame that on Marvin. I saw some missed tackles today was that Marvins fault as well?

Well unless the NFL changed the rules for this one game, the coaches are allowed to call time-out from the sidelines. So since the Bengals had a time-out left at the end of the game, do they get an extra one next weekend? Oh that's right they don't...nor will they ever get that time back that was wasted away and cost them about 2-3 shots at a TD at the end of the game. You can blame a lot of stuff on Carson, his lack of quick thinking to hit hot routes, his lack of getting rid of the ball early while under pressure, and his lack of calling the correct audible...but one thing you can not totally lay blame on Carson for, is clock management at the end of the game, when in fact Marvin could have called a time-out from the sideline. Did anyone else also think Marvin should have challenged Jacobs TD run? It didn't look like he got in to me!

Marvin is a horrible coach at clock management, choosing when to challenge with replay, and as a motivator. Given how on "any given Sunday" one team can beat another, a team like the Bengals can't afford to leave plays out on the field and still be able to win. Marvin has cost this team way more games than he has won them with his 'good' decisions.

[CarsonDaMan]

On the 3&1 decision to throw instead of spike the ball: "We had enough time to get in there, from my angle I thought he was. He shook the first guy and I thought he was going to split them and get in. It was a situation where we had enough time and they were in the right defense to try to get a cheap one by making a guy miss. Antonio, that’s his specialty, you saw that today. He almost made a guy miss and get in there, but we still had time to get the field goal."

Did you think about calling a timeout with third-and-1? “We didn’t need to,” Palmer said. “We had a chance, and we had enough time to get one more play in the end zone and stop the clock, if it’s complete and call a time out if it’s complete and we get the first down.”

So basically the smart thing to do was exactly what they did. They had the defense they wanted. Carson just took too much time getting it all setup. And after a few seconds running off Marvin should have then called time out? Then what? They run another play and get held in bounds with no time out left. In turn they have no time to get the field goal unit on the field to tie the game up? Gee what a dumbass Marvin must be.

[Spor_tees]

On the 3&1 decision to throw instead of spike the ball: "We had enough time to get in there, from my angle I thought he was. He shook the first guy and I thought he was going to split them and get in. It was a situation where we had enough time and they were in the right defense to try to get a cheap one by making a guy miss. Antonio, that’s his specialty, you saw that today. He almost made a guy miss and get in there, but we still had time to get the field goal."

Did you think about calling a timeout with third-and-1? “We didn’t need to,” Palmer said. “We had a chance, and we had enough time to get one more play in the end zone and stop the clock, if it’s complete and call a time out if it’s complete and we get the first down.”

So basically the smart thing to do was exactly what they did. They had the defense they wanted. Carson just took too much time getting it all setup. And after a few seconds running off Marvin should have then called time out? Then what? They run another play and get held in bounds with no time out left. In turn they have no time to get the field goal unit on the field to tie the game up? Gee what a dumbass Marvin must be.

No I did not say anything about spiking the ball before that play. Learn to stay on topic. That would have been basically giving up and giving in to nothing BUT a FG seeing as how if they spiked the ball it would have then been 4th down and they would have been forced to kick a FG with about 20 seconds left on the clock. I said they should have called a time out. Unless Carson has a brain fart, he throws a pass that is past the first down marker and if the WR doesn't get in the endzone, they still have time to spike the ball and stop the clock.

You say they made the right choice...well they lost the game so obviously it was not the right choice. Conventional wisdom will tell you, when you are a huge underdog team on the road playing the defending world champions, you do everything you can to determine your fate and not let it go to OT where a coin toss could decide the game. It was terrible clock management and it cost the Bengals a victory that could have turned this season around. Instead the team is left with a ton of the "woulda, couldas." It's a true shame. The Bengals should be 1-2 going into a game against a reeling Browns team. With a victory next week the Bengals could have been back to 2-2 and still in the hunt. Now people are left to talk about Moral victories and how the Bengals are just going to be the best of 2 underachieving teams next week when they face the Browns.

Marvin should be gone by week 9 when they Bengals are 2-7 or 1-8. I for one will be as glad to see him go, as I was to see my power come back on earlier this week.

[CarsonDaMan]

No basically all i'm trying to tell you here is you can do this two different ways and you'll get the exact same result. Carson saw a defense he liked so he went with a play in which his coach trusted him to do. It was close but didn't quite get in. Scenario two is they burn the time out and come back and run a play. Again they most likely won't get in especially since after the TO the Giants will be much better prepared to defend the endzone. You run a play get stopped short and then haul ass to spike the ball and again... kick a field goal. Same scenario if you ask me and has nothing to do with bad coaching.

If you want to argue that they should've went for it instead of kicking the field goal then i'm all ears to that debate. Otherwise you're just pulling stuff out of your crack just because you dislike Marvin Lewis.

[Spor_tees]

No basically all i'm trying to tell you here is you can do this two different ways and you'll get the exact same result. Carson saw a defense he liked so he went with a play in which his coach trusted him to do. It was close but didn't quite get in. Scenario two is they burn the time out and come back and run a play. Again they most likely won't get in especially since after the TO the Giants will be much better prepared to defend the endzone. You run a play get stopped short and then haul ass to spike the ball and again... kick a field goal. Same scenario if you ask me and has nothing to do with bad coaching.

If you want to argue that they should've went for it instead of kicking the field goal then i'm all ears to that debate. Otherwise you're just pulling stuff out of your crack just because you dislike Marvin Lewis.

No if the Bengals call the timeout and let's just say for debate's sake they get the same result...a pass complete for a first down but not a touchdown, they still have time to spike the ball and get another shot or two at the endzone...whereas, how it really played out, they wasted time (keeping a timeout that does them no good once the game is over) and completed a pass for a first down but not a touchdown, then use the timeout with 4 seconds left to kick a FG. According to ESPN's play by play...

2nd and 10 at NYG 23 (:35) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short middle to T.Houshmandzadeh to NYG 14 for 9 yards (A.Pierce).

3rd and 1 at NYG 14 (:12) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short right to A.Chatman to NYG 3 for 11 yards (K.Phillips, K.Dockery).

Timeout #3 by CIN at 00:04.

1st and 3 at NYG 3 (:04) S.Graham 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.St. Louis, Holder-K.Larson.

That means they basically wasted 20 seconds between the TJ catch and the Chatman catch...which is PLENTY of time to take 2-3 shots at a TD and win the game! When you are in the situation the Bengals are in, you don't play games not to lose...you play to win, especially on the road against the defending world champs. Marvin is a horrible coach...and if you can't see that by now, there is nothing I can do to make you take off your rose colored glass and put down the cup'o koolade.

[kingwilly]

I think there are four areas of culpability in this painful loss.

1. Levi Jones - several sacks (4?) on him and two false starts. He cost the team the ENTIRE first series and the late false start came with :51 seconds to play, pushing the O back and impacting what the next several play options were.

2. Chad Johnson - hurt or not, he has not "shown up". The culmination of his off-season horses-azz impression, putting off his ankle injury and general disregard for making this team better by not participating in OTA's would mean next to nothing if he came in and was ready to go. Mr. Chad, you make WAY too much money to play like a 4th reciever. The reality is, he is still not ready and if his poor production continues, I hope they start rotating in Caldwell, Simpson and Henry (when he gets back). Ocho Busto at this point.

3. Bratkowski/Palmer - I respect the discipline with which they have been running the ball but does Perry HAVE to get ALL the touches? Mixing in Watson and DeDe will keep Perry fresh and also change what the D must look for. And some of the playcalls fall on Carson, so he gets some of the blame but against a team with such a great pass rush, an interior screen or bubble screen can defuse the all-out pass rush.

4. Management - Criticizing Castille or Jones at this piint is just dumb. I applaud them for beating the odds and making the team. What is unforgiveable is the roster planning, or lack of it. Ok, so they brought in Pope to shore up against the depth issue but I remain unconvinced that Castille or Jones is perfoming at a level we could have had with a FA like Dexter Wynn or other.

This team is clearly improving. There was some mention that the first two games were more like pre-season games. I think the Bengals turned that corner today...so really, the Bengals went 2-5 in the preseason...in an alternate NFL reality.

[combatbengal]

Play calling lost the game for us. We drive the ball down the field (by throwing and pass prtection) at the end of the game and kick a FG to take it into over time. Then in over time, we get the ball and what do we do. Go away from what got us into over time and try to run the ball up the middle, which didn't get us any where. We run on first dwon, we run on second and long. Then on 3rd and long, we run again. It's like we just gave up and wanted to give the ball to the Giants. Geezzzzzzzzzzz!

[TJJackson]

always and ever.....Mike "Son of Genius" Brown

[Spor_tees]

During Marvin Lewis' entire time as the Bengal's head coach, has he EVER come out after a game and said, "This one is on me. I made a bad call." No, and that should tell you something right there. Even a guy like Joe Gibbs, who is a class act and hall of fame coach, came out after the game he called a timeout they didn't have, and lost them the game, and admitted it was his fault. He easily could have blamed it on another coach saying they were supposed to keep track of the time outs for him, but instead Gibbs took the bullet. You can't possibly tell me that Marvin hasn't made many coaching mistakes since he has been the head coach, yet he has never come out and taken the heat for it. He is a horrible coach and he has an ego the size of Paul Brown Stadium. I will be so HAPPY to see him gone.

[HoosierCat]

I nominate Levi 'No-Show' Jones as my scapegoat of the game. He sucked.

Seconded -- or, since willy feels the same way, thirded. He's been bad and getting worse every week. They need to seriously consider moving Whit. Levi is going to get Palmer killed.

[kingwilly]

No if the Bengals call the timeout and let's just say for debate's sake they get the same result...a pass complete for a first down but not a touchdown, they still have time to spike the ball and get another shot or two at the endzone...whereas, how it really played out, they wasted time (keeping a timeout that does them no good once the game is over) and completed a pass for a first down but not a touchdown, then use the timeout with 4 seconds left to kick a FG. According to ESPN's play by play...

2nd and 10 at NYG 23 (:35) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short middle to T.Houshmandzadeh to NYG 14 for 9 yards (A.Pierce).

3rd and 1 at NYG 14 (:12) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short right to A.Chatman to NYG 3 for 11 yards (K.Phillips, K.Dockery).

Timeout #3 by CIN at 00:04.

1st and 3 at NYG 3 (:04) S.Graham 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.St. Louis, Holder-K.Larson.

That means they basically wasted 20 seconds between the TJ catch and the Chatman catch...which is PLENTY of time to take 2-3 shots at a TD and win the game! When you are in the situation the Bengals are in, you don't play games not to lose...you play to win, especially on the road against the defending world champs. Marvin is a horrible coach...and if you can't see that by now, there is nothing I can do to make you take off your rose colored glass and put down the cup'o koolade.

Watching it again on the NFL.com video, it was a huge waste of time.

Let's say it goes like this instead:

2nd and 10 at NYG 23 (:35) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short middle to T.Houshmandzadeh to NYG 14 for 9 yards (A.Pierce).

Timeout #3 by CIN at 00:35

3rd and 1 at NYG 14 (:35) - Incomplete short left to Chad Ocho Cinco.

4th and 1 at NYG 14 (:26) - Complete short middle to T.Houshmandzadeh to NYG 7 for 7 yards (A.Pierce).

1st and Goal at NYG 7 (:11) ------////

Ok, so there you get 2 downs to get the first after the TJ catch. Let's even say it takes both plays to get it, fine.

Now you have somewheres around :11 seconds to take a shot at the end zone AND kick the FG with no TO's. :11 is only enough for one shot, meaning it is an INT, TD or incomplete, then run on the FG unit and kick. tight.

It *MIGHT* have been possible but in retrospect, the risky play was Chatmans pass that was not close enough to the sidelines...he gets out of bounds there and they could have still taken a shot, preserving the TO. Really, you'd get one more play out of the time left if you shift it around.

I am not going to be overly sour on this for two reasons: it was a group error, since Carson audibled but also becasueML could have called the TO form th sidelines. I like that ML did not trip up Carson in the moment. Yu gotta trust your Pro Bowl QB in crunch time. I also think they were playing good D and thought they could go to OT with confidence.

Too many other areas to look at besides this one aspect. One big one is Levi's falsestart with :51 to play, chinging the playcalls needed to keep the ball moving. F Levi. There is your goat.

[COB]

They need to seriously consider moving Whit. Levi is going to get Palmer killed.

I think they'll make that move this week. It's hard to understand how they could look at the tape from the first three games and leave Levi out there. He is too slow.

In Sunday's game his play looked really strange. With a defensive end lined up on his outside shoulder, very obviously set to rush the passer, Levi repeatedly looked inside first, then tried to turn back outside. By the time he decided to go outside it was too late and he was getting spun around.