Rookie Mini-camp thread

[membengal]

That was Utecht also on the field watching practice with CP. LOVE to see that. Love it. I am looking forward to the return of the TE to the passing game this year.

[membengal]

Also, from Curnutte on his blog this morning:

Saturday morning at stadium

Rookie minicamp practice continues this morning in the rain inside Paul Brown Stadium.

Some quick observations:

-- Offensive lineman Anthony Collins, a former basketball player, has great feet.

-- Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell have excellent size for wide receivers and are catching most everything thrown their way, even in heavy rain.

-- A lot will be expected of third-round defensive tackle Pat Sims. He might be the single-most important player drafted simply because of the need at his position.

-- If all things are equal between Jordan Palmer and Jeff Rowe for the third quarterback spot on the roster, which player has the built-in edge?

[BengalszoneBilly]

That was Utecht also on the field watching practice with CP. LOVE to see that. Love it. I am looking forward to the return of the TE to the passing game this year.

Me and you both bro.

[BTG]

And 3rdly, all you bi**hes that were complaining that we reached for Jerome Simpson will be eating your words! You can tell he's bothered by all the talk about how we reached for him and all that junk! So all you haters, when he becomes better the Ocho Fu**o you'll try and jump on the bandwagon, classless!

Wow, how eloquently stated.

Though I do agree that all the negativity about where he was selected may serve to motivate him and make him a better player. I really believe we have three of the best receiver prospects in the draft...each of them brings something different to the table.

[GregCook]

In his press conference yesterday, Marvin said Sims was further along and expected to contribute quickly, so it sounds like he's already half-ticketed for a spot in the rotation. He also mentioned being impressed with Sims' level of conditioning at camp and his attitude. OTOH he said Shirley still has a ways to go with basic footwork and handwork and technique so he could get the most out of being such a big, strong guy. Right now, Lewis said, about 2/3rds of Shirley's efforts are going to waste.

That being the case, then he should make rapid improvements this year due to coaching him out of the obvious problems. The question in my mind is whether he'll be content with these improvements or will he work at it over the next couple years?

Given his past behavior, I'm guessing he won't improve much after this year. But as a 5th rounder, its a gamble that could pay big with little downside.

[JoePong]

1st off Carson is the perfect leader! Star quarterback at Rookie Camp when he doesn't have to be! Shows he's all about football and wants to be ready for this season;

Yeah, but

, be it timing with the newbies or giving his input to the coaches about what he thinks is best for the organization.

You do understand that he was only watching, not throwing, right?

2nd, I'm tired of everybody that keeps saying New Orleans beat us to the punch and took Sedrick Ellis from us

Sorry about your luck. This is a discussion board. We discuss things, as amazing as that might sound to you. If you're already tired of discussion, you might want to go back to your Gameboy or GI Joe action figures.

if they were both there I would have rather taken Keith anyways

Good for you - see? Even though I could not disagree with you more, you're discussing. Ellis was clearly the better candidate to improve our defense, but only time will tell which player is actually a better NFL player. Hopefully it will turn out that you are right, tho it does not look that way at the moment, with Rivers onfield being compare to Brian Simmons.

plus we didn't have to give up our third rounder which turned up being Pat Sims who on a lot of peeps list was the third or fourth best DT in the draft, We Win!

You make it sound like Sims was very nearly as good as Ellis, and he flat out isn't. Sorry, but no.

And I've been a Gators fan 4 life but to say the Jags jumped us and took Derrick Harvey from us too is insane b/c not only do we have two starting DE and had to many needs to take a luxury top10 pick but, Harvey is not a top10 player.

They felt we'd take him, and clearly they thought the world of him given how far they jumped and how much they paid to do so. So far from insane, it's actually generally accepted to the point of almost being considered a fact. I'd say it is insane for you to think otherwise. Hey, you might want to "discuss" that, if you aren't tired of it already.

And 3rdly, all you bi**hes that were complaining that we reached for Jerome Simpson will be eating your words! You can tell he's bothered by all the talk about how we reached for him and all that junk! So all you haters, when he becomes better the Ocho Fu**o you'll try and jump on the bandwagon, classless!

Nice verbiage, be-rad......so this entirely unproven WR with admittedly great potential is already going to be BETTER than a WR who in the past 5 years or more has been consistently putting up elite (thats l33t to you) numbers? Again, I certainly hope you are right, but for now, you may want to cut down on your meds, 'kay?

P.S. Ahmad should just give Keith #55 or the team should just take it from him! Brooks is huge he should be like #95 or something.

When you get to high school, you'll probably start reading about the NFL, and you'll then read how certain highly compensated rookies will pay existing veterans to trade numbers with them. Washington Redskins RB Clinton Portis worked worked out such a trade, as described here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...5-2004Jun4.html. So it is generally accepted that the player who wants the number pays the player who has it for the privilege of a swap.

Maybe, but I have read numerous statements by scouts saying that Sims may well end up being the best DT in this draft within a couple years. Also, Sims doesn't have the physical limitations that Ellis does, such as being short, undersized, and having short arms.

[membengal]

From C. Trent's blog at 1530 LotD:

Yep, it's pretty exciting down here. It rained for most of the morning practice, but the receivers still looked pretty good in the rain.

As the practice wound down, so did the rain.

Not too many huge observations...

* But damn, Jason Shirley is big. Really big.

* However, USC DE Alex Morrow isn't small either. A college free agent, Morrow is 6-foot-6 and 272 pounds. He said he was disappointed he wasn't drafted. Morrow was a back-up DE and special teams player for the Trojans. But, as he pointed out, it doesn't really matter where you were drafted after the first couple of rounds, he has the same chance with the Bengals had he been drafted or not. He said the other former Trojans on the Bengals helped him decide to come to Cincinnati.

* Also a very large man is Anthony Collins.

* I saw Odell Thurman for the first time in a while today. He looks like he's got a little extra weight on him, but he's always been kind of big in the upper body. I hope he does well. We'll see how it goes.

* I also talked a little to Simeon Castille, a cornerback out of Alabama. I covered Simeon's brother Tim and had talked several times to his father, Jeremiah, when I covered the Crimson Tide. Simeon said it's tough because there are only three cornerbacks and seven receivers in camp. But he's excited at the opportunity.

[Thurmanation]

From C. Trent's blog at 1530 LotD:

* I saw Odell Thurman for the first time in a while today. He looks like he's got a little extra weight on him, but he's always been kind of big in the upper body. I hope he does well. We'll see how it goes.

Happy to hear that.

[membengal]

From Hobson on .com:

Some observations between the morning and afternoon sessions during Saturday of rookie camp at Paul Brown Stadium:

_The Bengals are humming about how good fourth-round pick Anthony Collins looks. The 6-6, 311-pound Collins has impressed with his quick feet and presence that have them thinking he can be a left tackle as well as a right tackle pretty early in his development. Collins played left last year at Kansas after a year at right. Although they are toying about getting him snaps at guard, he has left tackle all to himself this weekend.

Count one of his fans as Bengals radio analyst Dave Lapham, who calls the Big 12 on Saturdays.

"He looks like a bear out there. An athlete. To see him play, it's hard to believe they got him in the fourth," Lapham said after the morning practice. "Anytime you sat down with their coach (Mark Mangino) and asked him who his bell cows were, Collins would be the first guy he'd mention."

_Angelo Craig, a seventh-round pick, showed up at another weight this weekend, a very light 231 pounds, but the University of Cincinnati defensive end vows to be back to around 250 by training camp.

He played at about 230 last season for the Bearcats, when he had eight tackles for losses, three sacks, two pass breakups and a fumble recovery returned for a touchdown as an end.

He has been a bit of mystery to the Bengals. He showed up at the scouting combine at 252 pounds, then a couple of weeks ago at UC's Pro Day he came in at 241. Now he's 10 pounds lighter and they may not be looking at an end.

But Craig, who ran slow because of a hamstring injury at the combine, says he'll put it back on .

"I felt like I needed to lose some weight because I got hurt," he said. "I wanted to get quicker with my pass rushing, and I've been eating better and getting my diet more under control."

But he doesn't think putting on another 20 is going to be a problem. The Bengals hope not because they didn't bargain having to switch positions with him to outside backer.

Still, if he can rush the passer, they'll find a spot for him no matter the weight. The third generation UC pass rusher (Antwan Peek, Trent Cole) comes from a line that has had to make a few moves in the pros. Cole moved from UC nose tackle to NFL end and Peek has moved around all the linebacking spots. Plus, the 6-4 Craig is actually taller than Peek and Cole.

[membengal]

From Curnutte on his Enquirer blog:

Defensive tackle remains a position of uncertainty for the Bengals behind projected starters Domata Peko and John Thornton.

The Bengals took Pat Sims in the third round and fellow defensive tackle Jason Shirley in the fifth.

“Yeah, I think Pat for sure should have an impact right away,” Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis said during rookie minicamp.

“I think Jason has a lot to learn. But he will be a willing learner. He’s a big, big strong man, so we’ll get him … into the correct stances and be faster and quicker with his hands and allow him to use all that big man that he’s got there because right now he’s wasting about two-thirds of it.”

Sims, of the team’s 10 draft picks, might be the most important because of the need at the position.

“I know they expect a lot out of me,” Sims said today between minicamp practices. “I'm going to work hard to give them that. As a rookie, I'm just going to try to contribute as early as I can, helping stop the run and putting some pressure on the quarterback.”

Defensive line coach Jay Hayes has encouraged Sims, “to work on my technique, work on my footwork.”

[BengalszoneBilly]

How they can project Thornton as the for sure starter is beyond me. In my book he'll be looking for work right after camp. New DC Zimmer will not just let Bresnahans captain be HIS captain. That's like letting the captain of the Titanic keep his job.

It won't happen.

[Pidge]

How they can project Thornton as the for sure starter is beyond me. In my book he'll be looking for work right after camp. New DC Zimmer will not just let Bresnahans captain be HIS captain. That's like letting the captain of the Titanic keep his job.

It won't happen.

I hope you're right.

[HAPPYJAQ]

How they can project Thornton as the for sure starter is beyond me. In my book he'll be looking for work right after camp. New DC Zimmer will not just let Bresnahans captain be HIS captain. That's like letting the captain of the Titanic keep his job.

It won't happen.

I totally agree. The question is, would the Bengals start a rookie alonside Peko, this year, with Mike Myers and Shirley as the backups? If Thornton doesn't start here, I am not sure if they'd keep John Thornton and his 4 million dollar salary as a backup. I think I would be OK with that, given his past production, simply because that would give the team some more cap room this year to work on resigning TJ and Stacy Andrews to long-term deals.

[JoePong]

I think it's funny that people who complain about how weak we are at the DT position think we will somehow improve the situation by cutting our best DT. Makes a lot of sense...

[jjakq27]

That was Utecht also on the field watching practice with CP. LOVE to see that. Love it. I am looking forward to the return of the TE to the passing game this year.

Where was Chad????

[HAPPYJAQ]

I think it's funny that people who complain about how weak we are at the DT position think we will somehow improve the situation by cutting our best DT. Makes a lot of sense...

I don't argue that they SHOULD cut Thornon, I just don't believe they would keep him as a backup, if the thought is that Peko and Sims are going to start for the Bengals. I also agree that he is the best tackle on the roster, based on past performance. The fact that almost everyone who has casually watch the Bengals believe that a major problem on defense is the DT position says something about the current DT situation prior to the draft (to the point where the Bengals unsuccessfully tried to trade for two veteram DT's and ended up drafting 2 in addition to losing out on a highly coveted player in Sedrick Ellis).

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Let's put it this way, Joe - if we enter this season with John Thornton as our best DT, it's all over anyway. I think Peko is better and one of our new fatties better be too.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be part of a rotation, though, and that's why he won't be cut. The fatties can't play every play.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Let's put it this way, Joe - if we enter this season with John Thornton as our best DT, it's all over anyway. I think Peko is better and one of our new fatties better be too.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be part of a rotation, though, and that's why he won't be cut. The fatties can't play every play.

How can the team demote John Thornton from being a starter, yet leave him as defensive captain? That just doesn't work. Either he starts, or he is cut. There is no in between.

[GregCook]

Let's put it this way, Joe - if we enter this season with John Thornton as our best DT, it's all over anyway. I think Peko is better and one of our new fatties better be too.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be part of a rotation, though, and that's why he won't be cut. The fatties can't play every play.

How can the team demote John Thornton from being a starter, yet leave him as defensive captain? That just doesn't work. Either he starts, or he is cut. There is no in between.

If I'm JT, I've got my agent looking at teams that might be in need of a veteran inside guy. With three dline guys drafted plus Odom, Geathers, Peko, Fanane, Rucker there are 8 guys not named Thornton. The only way he stays is if either Rucker is cut or one of the draftees is cut. I doubt Rucker will be cut, we have no depth at DE then. So JT is competing for the 8th and final spot on the line is how I see it.

[HoosierCat]

If I'm JT, I've got my agent looking at teams that might be in need of a veteran inside guy. With three dline guys drafted plus Odom, Geathers, Peko, Fanane, Rucker there are 8 guys not named Thornton. The only way he stays is if either Rucker is cut or one of the draftees is cut. I doubt Rucker will be cut, we have no depth at DE then. So JT is competing for the 8th and final spot on the line is how I see it.

It's not that tight. For one thing, Angelo Craig isn't going to be lining up at DE in the NFL. At 235 he obviously projects to LB. So that leaves us with four DEs -- Fanene, Geathers, Rucker and Odom -- and four DTs, Peko, Thornton, Mike Myers and Titus Adams. Adams would be the prime candidate to be replaced by Sims. As for Shirley, my guess is that he's headed for the practice squad.

[PhunkE1]

If I'm JT, I've got my agent looking at teams that might be in need of a veteran inside guy. With three dline guys drafted plus Odom, Geathers, Peko, Fanane, Rucker there are 8 guys not named Thornton. The only way he stays is if either Rucker is cut or one of the draftees is cut. I doubt Rucker will be cut, we have no depth at DE then. So JT is competing for the 8th and final spot on the line is how I see it.

It's not that tight. For one thing, Angelo Craig isn't going to be lining up at DE in the NFL. At 235 he obviously projects to LB. So that leaves us with four DEs -- Fanene, Geathers, Rucker and Odom -- and four DTs, Peko, Thornton, Mike Myers and Titus Adams. Adams would be the prime candidate to be replaced by Sims. As for Shirley, my guess is that he's headed for the practice squad.

Reports say Craig will beef back up to around 250. He's going to be nothing more than a situational pass rusher this season at best. Robert Mathis has managed to make a nice career out of that in Indy at around 240. Another project I wanted to see the Bengals draft, but knew they wouldn't afte they drafted Rivers, is Marcus Howard of UGA. He had 10.5 sacks last year in the SEC as a reserve at Gerogia. Indy's going to use him much like they use Mathis and he's only 6'1" 245. Bottom line is that Craig isn't going to be a liablity to the run D if he's only in on obvious passing downs.

[GregCook]

If I'm JT, I've got my agent looking at teams that might be in need of a veteran inside guy. With three dline guys drafted plus Odom, Geathers, Peko, Fanane, Rucker there are 8 guys not named Thornton. The only way he stays is if either Rucker is cut or one of the draftees is cut. I doubt Rucker will be cut, we have no depth at DE then. So JT is competing for the 8th and final spot on the line is how I see it.

It's not that tight. For one thing, Angelo Craig isn't going to be lining up at DE in the NFL. At 235 he obviously projects to LB. So that leaves us with four DEs -- Fanene, Geathers, Rucker and Odom -- and four DTs, Peko, Thornton, Mike Myers and Titus Adams. Adams would be the prime candidate to be replaced by Sims. As for Shirley, my guess is that he's headed for the practice squad.

I got to believe Marvin remembers when that Samoan dude was plucked off our PS last season so they will be reluctant to put their 5th rnd pick, Shirley on PS. If the kid flashes during camp, shows he can be disciplined on the line, can learn some fundamentals, he makes the team. If not, you may be right, off to the PS.

Fanane last I heard was moving inside because he was told to beef up to 300. The new guy, Craig, I read the Bengals do expect him to beef up and play DE. Of course as a 7th rnd pick, he has a long road to make the team. If there is anyone destined for the PS, its Craig.

JT is also paid in the millions this year, he is the definition of a aging vet on the bubble.

Actually I don't care who's names are on the team, what I see this year, for the first time in years, is strong competition on the line and that has to improve the run defense.

[HoosierCat]

If Craig makes the roster at all it will be on the practice squad.

Fanene was already swinging between end and tackle. And his "bulking up" consisted of putting on a whole 5 lbs. versus his 295 playing weight in 2007. As was noted elsewhere, he could drop that just by taking a healthy crap.

There's always the danger of losing a guy off the PS. They may have to look at bringing Shirley up late in the season so that doesn't happen. But at that point injuries or poor play could have changed the picture on the line.

[TJJackson]

Reports say Craig will beef back up to around 250. He's going to be nothing more than a situational pass rusher this season at best.

At 250 lbs, Craig's 40 is well over 5.0.....if you're large, you don't need as much speed, but when you are small (as he is) you had better have speed. He has neither. Wasted draft pick. He might make the practice squad IF there are a large number of injuries at the DE spot, otherwise he's gone.

[membengal]

From Curnutte's blog today:

Marvin Lewis closed the three-day, five-practice rookie minicamp Sunday in positive terms.

Coaches now know even more than they did about the team’s 10 draft picks, and new defensive coaches – coordinator Mike Zimmer and linebackers coach Jeff FitzGerald – had time on the field to work with actual players after four-months of scouting and office work.

“When you can get as much football in as we did, it helps the rookies coming back,” Lewis said Sunday afternoon at Paul Brown Stadium.

Most of the rookies, both draft picks and free agents, will be back to participate

May 20 in organized team activities (OTA) that will start May 13 for whole team.

Those activities are voluntary.

Lewis said that veteran running back Chris Perry (ankle, shin) and safety Ethan Kilmer (knee) – both of whom missed all of the 2007 season – “should be ready to go May 13” for on-field work.

Second-year running back Kenny Irons (knee) will not be available, Lewis said.

Asked what he took personally from the three days of work, Lewis said he often was left saying “wow.”

“But,” he added, “that’s why we drafted them.”

Lewis and his coaches had 15-minute interviews at the NFL scouting combine in February in Indianapolis with prospects. Some of the prospects visited Cincinnati. Coaches and scouts visited their campuses for pro day workouts.

“You don’t see if they can handle install,” Lewis said in reference to the process of learning plays and schemes.

“You also get to see them playing at the speed of football in 11-on-11 drills. That matters.”

In addition, Lewis and his coaches could see the functional strength of linemen they selected – such as offensive tackle Anthony Collins and defensive tackles Pat Sims and Jason Shjrley.

First-round draft pick Keith Rivers, the Southern Cal linebacker, worked on the weak-side position, where he had in college, and impressed coaches with his fluid play and work ethic.

Coaches were impressed, too, with Rivers’ natural leadership and ability to call his position players together.

“He showed things that are innate,” Lewis said of Rivers. “Every time he was not in a meeting he was upstairs watching tape on his own.

“He already gets it.”

Forty-six players participated in the minicamp.

In addition to the 10 draft picks, there were eight college free agents. The rest were either rookie or veteran players participating on a try-out basis.

The Bengals signed three of the try-out players from rookie minicamp: defensive tackle Antwon Burton signed a one-year deal; he is a third-year NFL player from Temple.

Rookie linebacker Dan Howell from Washington and rookie wide receiver Clyde Logan of Idaho State each signed two-year contracts with the Bengals following minicamp.

Beyond OTA practices on the field, starting May 13, the Bengals’ next major team event is the mandatory full-squad minicamp scheduled for June 12-14.