Rookie Mini-camp thread

[membengal]

In case there are any interesting articles/discussion from the weekend, thought it would be nice to centralize the chatter.

To start it off, courtesy of bengals.com, your newest LBer:

Anyone know how to make a pic show up in here? I don't.

[HoosierCat]

Fixed.

Just use the insert image button. It's the one between the hyperlink and smiley buttons in the toolbar.

[membengal]

Thanks, Hoosier, I tried to use it but didn't seem to have done it right. At any rate, there he is. And a sight for sore eyes, as fas as I am concerned.

Looking forward to seeing pics of Sims and the Fresno guy too...

Heck, looking forward to seeing picks of all the draft picks.

[membengal]

From Curnutte on enquirer.com and his blog:

Early observations from rookie minicamp:

First-round linebacker Keith Rivers reminds me a lot of Brian Simmons in the way he moves and runs.

On consecutive plays, draft pick tight end Matt Sherry and wide receiver Jerome Simpson dropped passes. Sherry did 10 pushups.

Quarterback Jordan Palmer has a strong arm, like his older brother, Carson.

Carson Palmer, Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph came out to watch practice.

The former Astroturf practice field is being torn up and is being replaced by a Bermuda grass field that will hold up better in hot weather.

[membengal]

Also from Curnutte on his enquirer blog:

Carson Palmer watched practice this morning at rookie minicamp. He kept an eye on the quarterback wearing No. 5, younger brother Jordan Palmer, but Carson was most interested in receivers Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell -- selected in the second and third rounds.

“Got to reload; Chad (Johnson) and T.J. (Houshmandzadeh) are both getting older, and it’s part of the deal. When a certain position gets older you’ve got to restock for the years to come. I don’t think it’s anything more than that. People talk about Chad and all the other stuff going on, but it’s just restocking a position, just like every other team does."

[HoosierCat]

Hobson has video up on bengals.com.

[kingwilly]

Just watched the video on team site.

First thoughts:

58 – Rivers. Looks technically sound. Just getting settled. You can tell he is going ½-2/3 speed in drills. Very fluid with no wasted steps. Looks way better than Brooks or Pollack did in older mini-camp videos if I recall.

99 – Shirley is huge. Just overshadows Sims or whoever he is near. On a hands/knees sled drill, he pushes the sled much farther than anyone in the single burst move. Shirley is very strong and big. If he can get into good condition, he will play many downs this fall. Shirley will be key in getting 3 and outs against the Jamal Lewis’s, Willie Parkers and Macgahee’s.

90 – Sims. Looks OK. Does not look 6’4” as listed on the rookie mini-camp list, especially next to Shirley. Maybe Shirley is bigger than 6’5”? Sims needs conditioning. Clearly a soft-body. If I had to choose who to start today, I’d pick Shirley over Sims solely from the video.

89 – Simpson. Looks pretty fluid in moves. Saw the dropped pass and resulting push-ups. Not enough video of full-speed drills to get detailed. Saw a nice lunge for a grab, got the screen capture below. Laying out like that remind you of anyone?

87- Caldwell. Precise and sharp. Passes I saw you could tell he is fast, even at half-speed. Buh-bye Chatman.

18- Urretia. Tall, long guy who looked smooth. Obvious height advantage over DB’s will be big in red-zone/third-down scenarios. Need to see full-speed drill to gauge quickness and deep speed.

49 – Hoke. Looks very quick, if not very big. In video, looks like a high-effort player trying to impress. Good footwork in the drills shown. Not sure where he fits outside of ST but cutting Schlegel and Manning means his chances of making team just got better.

[Sundance_Kid]

you forgot to mention that Shirley's footwork is comparative to a 12 month old learning to walk

hopefully he has the zeal to improve it.. otherwise your prediction of Sims ahead of Shirley is off

[kingwilly]

you forgot to mention that Shirley's footwork is comparative to a 12 month old learning to walk

hopefully he has the zeal to improve it.. otherwise your prediction of Sims ahead of Shirley is off

Admittedly, his step-through in the drill they show looks lethargic however I am not asking our DT's to mimic Fred Astaire, I want them to mash and jam...big difference.

I think part of it is conditioning and the other is the spped of the drills. Noone seemed to be gassing the steps, not the LB's or D-line. the player who looked like he was on high-test was Hoke.

The D-line needs to clog, jam and mash. Fancy feet are nice but not a requirement.

[Kazkal]

Laying out like that remind you of anyone?

I have to say when I saw that catch I thought the same thing with a smile on my face,hopefully he doesn't turn out to be a drama queen.

The D-line needs to clog, jam and mash. Fancy feet are nice but not a requirement.

More so when your 6'5 and 340 lbs,How do you think ngata did on those type of drills?

PS,I find it interesting Hall and Jjoe went and watched.

[Sundance_Kid]

I'm sorry, it's true, they aren't going game speed and our DT's don't need to be Michael Jackson (with regard to footwork, not criminal record)

BUT, to say they don't need good footwork is a total farse... if he's lying on the ground because his feet can't keep up with the shift in line that occurs every down... he is in trouble and so are our LB's because they'll have to deal with O line men pounding them

[kingwilly]

I'm sorry, it's true, they aren't going game speed and our DT's don't need to be Michael Jackson (with regard to footwork, not criminal record)

BUT, to say they don't need good footwork is a total farse... if he's lying on the ground because his feet can't keep up with the shift in line that occurs every down... he is in trouble and so are our LB's because they'll have to deal with O line men pounding them

agree. I never siad "they don;t need good footwork". my point is on the list of things I want my DT to do, having pretty footwork in a drill is not real high. mentioning his power and burst when smashing the sled is far more indicative of what he might do to a guard or tackle than tip-toeing across some cones or pads.

As an example, have you ever seen how laid back a greyhound dog is or how slow a big predator moves, like a grizzly bear, lion or tiger? Put a rabbit or squirrel in sight of a greyhound and POW, it is a rocket dog. I watch this video and see Shirley as the grizzly bear just going through the paces. Now, put a QB or RB in front of him and watch out....just a sense of what I see, footwwork aside.

[Pidge]

Well, as we can see - Shirley went in the 5th for a reason. He has the size to dominate but the skills are way behind the other rookies (in footwork at least), nevermind NFL linemen. If he is willing to put in the work then I can't wait to see him on the field, but I doubt he sees much, if any, time on the field this season. Looks like JT gets one more year.

[bnglsboi8532]

1st off Carson is the perfect leader! Star quarterback at Rookie Camp when he doesn't have to be! Shows he's all about football and wants to be ready for this season, be it timing with the newbies or giving his input to the coaches about what he thinks is best for the organization.

2nd, I'm tired of everybody that keeps saying New Orleans beat us to the punch and took Sedrick Ellis from us, if they were both there I would have rather taken Keith anyways, plus we didn't have to give up our third rounder which turned up being Pat Sims who on a lot of peeps list was the third or fourth best DT in the draft, We Win! And I've been a Gators fan 4 life but to say the Jags jumped us and took Derrick Harvey from us too is insane b/c not only do we have two starting DE and had to many needs to take a luxury top10 pick but, Harvey is not a top10 player.

And 3rdly, all you bi**hes that were complaining that we reached for Jerome Simpson will be eating your words! You can tell he's bothered by all the talk about how we reached for him and all that junk! So all you haters, when he becomes better the Ocho Fu**o you'll try and jump on the bandwagon, classless!

P.S. Ahmad should just give Keith #55 or the team should just take it from him! Brooks is huge he should be like #95 or something.

[Pidge]

And 3rdly, all you bi**hes that were complaining that we reached for Jerome Simpson will be eating your words! You can tell he's bothered by all the talk about how we reached for him and all that junk! So all you haters, when he becomes better the Ocho Fu**o you'll try and jump on the bandwagon, classless!

Diplomacy is alive and well.

[kingwilly]

Well, as we can see - Shirley went in the 5th for a reason. He has the size to dominate but the skills are way behind the other rookies (in footwork at least), nevermind NFL linemen. If he is willing to put in the work then I can't wait to see him on the field, but I doubt he sees much, if any, time on the field this season. Looks like JT gets one more year.

Shirley + moderate footwork > Thornton + Fred Astaire footwork

it will be easier/faster to get Shirley in shape and coach his feet than it would be to make Thornton grow two inches and gain 45 lbs.

[Pidge]

Well, as we can see - Shirley went in the 5th for a reason. He has the size to dominate but the skills are way behind the other rookies (in footwork at least), nevermind NFL linemen. If he is willing to put in the work then I can't wait to see him on the field, but I doubt he sees much, if any, time on the field this season. Looks like JT gets one more year.

Shirley + moderate footwork > Thornton + Fred Astaire footwork

it will be easier/faster to get Shirley in shape and coach his feet than it would be to make Thornton grow two inches and gain 45 lbs.

True enough and I'm not the biggest JT out there but any guard or centre not named Guy-check will use his lack of footwork and lack of balance to send him sprawling every down. I'm just not convinced his footwork can get up to moderate before the season starts. I hope it can though.

I do think that Sims has a much higher chance of seeing something appraoching significant playing time this season because he's more polished overall.

The upside of Shirley is astounding. Now he just has to reach it.

[jjakq27]

Any cuts today?

[Kazkal]

Well, as we can see - Shirley went in the 5th for a reason. He has the size to dominate but the skills are way behind the other rookies (in footwork at least), nevermind NFL linemen. If he is willing to put in the work then I can't wait to see him on the field, but I doubt he sees much, if any, time on the field this season. Looks like JT gets one more year.

Shirley + moderate footwork > Thornton + Fred Astaire footwork

it will be easier/faster to get Shirley in shape and coach his feet than it would be to make Thornton grow two inches and gain 45 lbs.

Not only that I just really would like to see another person of shirleys size in these drills,anyways he didn't go in 5th because of his footwork his went in 5th because he drove through a bathroom

[kingwilly]

Well, as we can see - Shirley went in the 5th for a reason. He has the size to dominate but the skills are way behind the other rookies (in footwork at least), nevermind NFL linemen. If he is willing to put in the work then I can't wait to see him on the field, but I doubt he sees much, if any, time on the field this season. Looks like JT gets one more year.

Shirley + moderate footwork > Thornton + Fred Astaire footwork

it will be easier/faster to get Shirley in shape and coach his feet than it would be to make Thornton grow two inches and gain 45 lbs.

Not only that I just really would like to see another person of shirleys size in these drills,anyways he didn't go in 5th because of his footwork his went in 5th because he drove through a bathroom

Though not as big, I remember how good Bunkely looked in some combine drills, so as a comparison Shirley has some work to do.

Bunkley image for reference. that's natural. Keep in mind, Shirley is 3 inches taller and 35 lbs heavier (10+% more mass).

[Kazkal]

Aren't philly fans alrdy screaming bust on bunk? so I guess his footwork ain't really helping him.

To compare someone to shirley you would need a Ngata,Shaun rodgers or a young sam adams in the foot drills to compare rather then a workout warrior.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Aren't philly fans alrdy screaming bust on bunk? so I guess his footwork ain't really helping him.

To compare someone to shirley you would need a Ngata,Shaun rodgers or a young sam adams in the foot drills to compare rather then a workout warrior.

Right. A guy like Shirley just has to knock the damned C back into the QB. That's his job. Smaller guy has to rely on technique. Shirley has Newton's laws working for him.

I'm reminded of big space-eaters like Giblet Brown, and that guy didn't look like he'd be dancing anytime soon.

[HoosierCat]

In his press conference yesterday, Marvin said Sims was further along and expected to contribute quickly, so it sounds like he's already half-ticketed for a spot in the rotation. He also mentioned being impressed with Sims' level of conditioning at camp and his attitude. OTOH he said Shirley still has a ways to go with basic footwork and handwork and technique so he could get the most out of being such a big, strong guy. Right now, Lewis said, about 2/3rds of Shirley's efforts are going to waste.

[TJJackson]

1st off Carson is the perfect leader! Star quarterback at Rookie Camp when he doesn't have to be! Shows he's all about football and wants to be ready for this season;

Yeah, but....

, be it timing with the newbies or giving his input to the coaches about what he thinks is best for the organization.

....you do understand that he was only watching, not throwing, right?

2nd, I'm tired of everybody that keeps saying New Orleans beat us to the punch and took Sedrick Ellis from us

Sorry about your luck. This is a discussion board. We discuss things, as amazing as that might sound to you. If you're already tired of discussion, you might want to go back to your Gameboy or GI Joe action figures.

if they were both there I would have rather taken Keith anyways

Good for you - see? Even though I could not disagree with you more, you're discussing. Ellis was clearly the better candidate to improve our defense, but only time will tell which player is actually a better NFL player. Hopefully it will turn out that you are right, tho it does not look that way at the moment, with Rivers onfield being compare to Brian Simmons.

plus we didn't have to give up our third rounder which turned up being Pat Sims who on a lot of peeps list was the third or fourth best DT in the draft, We Win!

You make it sound like Sims was very nearly as good as Ellis, and he flat out isn't. Sorry, but no.

And I've been a Gators fan 4 life but to say the Jags jumped us and took Derrick Harvey from us too is insane b/c not only do we have two starting DE and had to many needs to take a luxury top10 pick but, Harvey is not a top10 player.

They felt we'd take him, and clearly they thought the world of him given how far they jumped and how much they paid to do so. So far from insane, it's actually generally accepted to the point of almost being considered a fact. I'd say it is insane for you to think otherwise. Hey, you might want to "discuss" that, if you aren't tired of it already.

And 3rdly, all you bi**hes that were complaining that we reached for Jerome Simpson will be eating your words! You can tell he's bothered by all the talk about how we reached for him and all that junk! So all you haters, when he becomes better the Ocho Fu**o you'll try and jump on the bandwagon, classless!

Nice verbiage, be-rad......so this entirely unproven WR with admittedly great potential is already going to be BETTER than a WR who in the past 5 years or more has been consistently putting up elite (thats l33t to you) numbers? Again, I certainly hope you are right, but for now, you may want to cut down on your meds, 'kay?

P.S. Ahmad should just give Keith #55 or the team should just take it from him! Brooks is huge he should be like #95 or something.

When you get to high school, you'll probably start reading about the NFL, and you'll then read how certain highly compensated rookies will pay existing veterans to trade numbers with them. Washington Redskins RB Clinton Portis worked worked out such a trade, as described here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...5-2004Jun4.html. So it is generally accepted that the player who wants the number pays the player who has it for the privilege of a swap.

[jjakq27]

Here's a link to some camp photos from C. Trent Rosecrans from Lance's blog.

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/gallery/view...e?gal_id=304626