TJJackson Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 You're making it sound like it is OK to fail to get a good player in r5, Hoosier....it's notThese failures have hurt us year after year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 You're making it sound like it is OK to fail to get a good player in r5, Hoosier....it's notNo, I'm pointing out that fifth rounders very often don't work out. I'm sure you would find similar stats were you to look at other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 It'd be interesting to look at all the 5th round picks over the past few drafts, and see what percentage of them are still on an NFL roster somewhere.I don't know about the whole league, but the 5th round has been absolutely worthless to the Bengals going back years. Out of the last seven drafts, we have 1 5th rounder still on the roster: QB Jeff Rowe.2006 - AJ Nicholson - moron, cut, currently out of NFL2005 - Adam Keift - injured, cut, currently out of NFL I believe2004 - Maurice Mann - signed off our PS by the fins, out of the NFL I believe2003 - Khalid Abdullah - injured, cut, out of NFL2002 - none2001 - Victor Leyva - gone, still in football?2000 - Nick Williams (Luchey) - let go by us twice IIRCShirley works out, fine, if not, nothing new.Jesus...we're obviously due for a break in this round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 No, you're making the point that we haven't picked well in round 5.....something I hope we fix someday but not (apparently) this year.Plenty of great players have been picked in the 5th round and beyond. It's important to treat the 5th round pick as another opportunity to land a quality starter - if not immediately, then eventually with grooming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spor_tees Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 You're making it sound like it is OK to fail to get a good player in r5, Hoosier....it's notNo, I'm pointing out that fifth rounders very often don't work out. I'm sure you would find similar stats were you to look at other teams.Just because the Bengals suck at picking guys in the 5th round is a worthless argument...that's like saying because the Bengals haven't won a Super Bowl no one else has...Other teams get quality players in the 5th round...and many will this year. Like I said in another thread, if you are going to waste a pick why not trade it and improve your position in another round to get a for sure player? This pick just shows how awful the FO is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 You're making it sound like it is OK to fail to get a good player in r5, Hoosier....it's notNo, I'm pointing out that fifth rounders very often don't work out. I'm sure you would find similar stats were you to look at other teams.Just because the Bengals suck at picking guys in the 5th round is a worthless argument...that's like saying because the Bengals haven't won a Super Bowl no one else has...Other teams get quality players in the 5th round...and many will this year. Like I said in another thread, if you are going to waste a pick why not trade it and improve your position in another round to get a for sure player? This pick just shows how awful the FO isOh, I give up. Yeah, you guys are right, our failures in the fifth round are the problem. Not our failures in the first or second or third...but the fifth.Seriously, this is one of the stupider arguments I've had around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmanation Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 This guys an amazing pick up, i thought of him as a great sleeper in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 No, you're making the point that we haven't picked well in round 5.....something I hope we fix someday but not (apparently) this year.Plenty of great players have been picked in the 5th round and beyond. It's important to treat the 5th round pick as another opportunity to land a quality starter - if not immediately, then eventually with grooming.Yes and we are trying to find a great DT in shirley if he gets in trouble then he's another kieft,Abdullah or Nicholson.All in All only 1 character risk taken in rnd 5 out of 8 picks so still a great draft imo.This pick just shows how awful the FO isHas it already been 2-3 years after the 2008 draft? Man! how time goes by!you don't know if its a good pick or a bad pick you don't know if he's going to get in trouble again or keep his nose clean for all we know is he could be our Young Sam Adams or he can be cut within the year but it's kinda early to judge the pick right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 You're making it sound like it is OK to fail to get a good player in r5, Hoosier....it's notNo, I'm pointing out that fifth rounders very often don't work out. I'm sure you would find similar stats were you to look at other teams.Just because the Bengals suck at picking guys in the 5th round is a worthless argument...that's like saying because the Bengals haven't won a Super Bowl no one else has...Other teams get quality players in the 5th round...and many will this year. Like I said in another thread, if you are going to waste a pick why not trade it and improve your position in another round to get a for sure player? This pick just shows how awful the FO isAssuming that the rest of the league is GOOD at picking 5th rounders, because you've heard some success stories is also a worthless argument. As I said earlier, if anyone feels like doing the research into all past 5th rounders of the NFL over the last few drafts, I'd be very curious to see what you turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 The problem again is, that the DT position is NOT THE POSITION we can afford to take this kind of risk with...WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 The problem again is, that the DT position is NOT THE POSITION we can afford to take this kind of risk with...WHODEY !!!I would have been happy with 1 DT this year as long as it was in the top 3 rounds..taking a chance on a 2nd one day 2 by all means go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 Has it already been 2-3 years after the 2008 draft? Man! how time goes by!you don't know if its a good pick or a bad pick you don't know if he's going to get in trouble again or keep his nose clean for all we know is he could be our Young Sam Adams or he can be cut within the year but it's kinda early to judge the pick right now.Great point Kaz. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, can really say how good this draft is until then. For all we really know this could be one of the best ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 We can say with certainty that if this fellow gets jailtime in the september to december time frame, which given that his trial is yet to be held is a real possibility, that he'll be very hard pressed to offer us any helpand thats my pointthe continued portrayal in the media of Cincinnati as a thug town due to this pick alone? That's just gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 We can say with certainty that if this fellow gets jailtime in the september to december time frame, You talk about how we shouldn't rule out 5th round picks just because they have a low success rate yet your already throwing shirley in jail before he even makes it to cinci.The guy has 1 DUI then drove with a suspended license yet you guys are saying he's worse then chris henry who's pulled guns on people who has beat the crap out of strangers trying to hook up with underage chickies but shirley makes chris henry look like a choir boy........ LOLEh Double Standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 He has a 35" vert? At 330 pounds? Good lord.It does raise an eyebrow.And the needle on a seismograph when he lands from that height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahdsage Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 In this whole thread one thing i'm surprised to not hear anything about is the role mike zimmer had/will have on the D this season. I think we've seen cincy take a pretty strong stance on character issues over the last 2 seasons so I have no doubt that they are making it clear to shirley and he is well aware that he doesn't have any chances to mess it up. Watching that clip from pro day how he just man handles a 290lb center in the blink of an eye was scary . . . real scary. I can see this working out great.As far as the issues go, it sounds like he was pulled over under suspicion of DUI. After that he wrecks his car (i can buy the concussion thing . . . if he's got medical records and doctors backing him up . . . ) which leads to a suspended license while they work the court case out. For all we know he could have been driving from a dorm to the library and said "shoot, it's a 3 minute drive" and then just got unlucky. I have several friends that are great guys but just immature and have received a DUI, not realize they can't cross a state line and they move only to come home six months later to find out they have a suspended license and a warrant out for their arrest.So not to say this shirley guy is being unfairly judged or criticized, just saying without knowing the facts this could easily be a one really bad mistake that then got compounded by an injury and immaturity, not a habitual line crosser. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Zimmer does with this guy and he certainly looks like he could be a pro-bowl DT. who dey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I actually respect Mike Brown for making this pick.The Commissioner has tried to impose some sort of unwritten rule on the Bengals. That rule being that the rest of the league can pick from the whole draft pool, but you Bengals can't. He even came to Cinci to reinforce the idea that "hey, you guys have embarrassed the NFL enough, no more character risks, or else!" Then he reinforced the message by keeping Thurman out for 2 years.Why should we be limited in the players we consider when other teams aren't?I'm not going for this unwritten gentleman's understanding he's trying to impose on us. Just like I don't agree with the way he's tried to downplay and coverup the Patriots' wrongdoing.If Goodell wants to keep the Bengals from drafting character risks, make a black and white rule that applies to the whole league. Then see if you can defend it in court. Mike Brown has balls to stand up to this little tinhorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Kinda does make since with mikey being one of the only ones to vote against him then with us happening to have alot problems that year gave him a easy excuse...Because didn't Jaguars and titans have just as many arrests in that 12 months and continue to have problems? think it was titans might have been someone else but I remember we were doing good on the turd watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Why should we be limited in the players we consider when other teams aren't? To Hoosiers point, I think we do see evidence that some things have changed in Cincinnati as, with the exception of this 5th round pick, they've managed to say away from this type of character risk for two drafts. Granted, that distinction will now be lost on people who happily tilt at windmills, but it's unreasonable to expect any team to ignore all character risks under all circumstances. That said, the guy was so drunk he hit an apartment building with his car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duus Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 That said, the guy was so drunk he hit an apartment building with his car.Now that's just not being fair! Apartment buildings can be darn fast-moving at times. Who hasn't strolled down the street in their car, only to find the neighborhood apartment jump up and dare to place itself right in the middle of the street! Stinkin' apartment buildings. They make us all look like idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Why should we be limited in the players we consider when other teams aren't? To Hoosiers point, I think we do see evidence that some things have changed in Cincinnati as, with the exception of this 5th round pick, they've managed to say away from this type of character risk for two drafts. Granted, that distinction will now be lost on people who happily tilt at windmills, but it's unreasonable to expect any team to ignore all character risks under all circumstances. That said, the guy was so drunk he hit an apartment building with his car.I am willing to suspend judgement of this pick. I REALLy hope this kid has "gotten it". Get him signed and into mini-camp. Get him some support and get him working at conditioning and strength. Get him around the team and build him up. Hearing him descibe how painful it was to not be part of his team make me think he will do well if the D-line is a tight group and relly come together. SInce this is SUCH a huge factor in the improvement of the defense, this should be a seriously huge part of getting these guys to gel and bond as a group. watching those videos again of him just tossing aside the O-lineman across from him was a joke. I mean a JOKE. did you see the spin move? knocked the guy 5 feet sideways...f-ing Bengals....you red-headed biotch! I forgive you. You can get your crap and move back in....but NO MORE drafting CI guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet23 Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I actually respect Mike Brown for making this pick.The Commissioner has tried to impose some sort of unwritten rule on the Bengals. That rule being that the rest of the league can pick from the whole draft pool, but you Bengals can't. He even came to Cinci to reinforce the idea that "hey, you guys have embarrassed the NFL enough, no more character risks, or else!" Then he reinforced the message by keeping Thurman out for 2 years.Why should we be limited in the players we consider when other teams aren't?I'm not going for this unwritten gentleman's understanding he's trying to impose on us. Just like I don't agree with the way he's tried to downplay and coverup the Patriots' wrongdoing.If Goodell wants to keep the Bengals from drafting character risks, make a black and white rule that applies to the whole league. Then see if you can defend it in court. Mike Brown has balls to stand up to this little tinhorn.Believe it or not, I'm inclined to agree with you. I still believe they reach for questionable character guys, because of a light scouting dept., but I really think they did their homework on this guy. If the Cowboys can stockpile malcontents, why can't the Bengals give a guy a chance? This kid has a tremendous upside. There is a good chance his problems are behind him and he will use this opportunity to prove to everyone what he can do. If it doesn't work out, they only wasted a 5th rounder. If he does work out, our DT problem could be a thing of the past. I like the pick. I really could care less what the media thinks of the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 The article on it was pretty funny,there was a guy dropping deuce and got knocked away from the toilet as shirley came busting through.The Guy was pretty light hearted about it though I'll see if I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 The article on it was pretty funny,there was a guy dropping deuce and got knocked away from the toilet as shirley came busting through.The Guy was pretty light hearted about it though I'll see if I can find it.Please, please, find and post that article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 The article on it was pretty funny,there was a guy dropping deuce and got knocked away from the toilet as shirley came busting through.The Guy was pretty light hearted about it though I'll see if I can find it.Please, please, find and post that article.just google: jason shirley toilet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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