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1st Round: Keith Rivers

ArmyBengal

By ArmyBengal
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DesperateDerelict Newbie

DesperateDerelict

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BengalszoneBilly Newbie

BengalszoneBilly

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:lol: :lol: :lol: Hoosier pretty much predicted your reaction would be as such.

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kingwilly Newbie

kingwilly

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ok, lets be serious....

HoF, are you saying you expect Rivers to perform at a Willis or Sims level next year?

I expect Rivers to be very good right away. And if he doesn't perform at the same level as Willis then so what? Willis wasn't in this draft, right?

right, and Willis pays in the NCF West, and Sims plays in the NFC North...so, what is your point?

this is a value-for-value, production-for-production comparison....

apples-to-apples

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kingwilly Newbie

kingwilly

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Hmmmmmmmmm Ahmad Brooks has rivers number :P I just hope we don't give him 56 because you know the brian simmons QQing would come.

PS,I remember quite a few people knocking willis before the draft saying he was not top 10-11 pick....

whu? kidding right?

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Kazkal Newbie

Kazkal

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Hmmmmmmmmm Ahmad Brooks has rivers number :P I just hope we don't give him 56 because you know the brian simmons QQing would come.

PS,I remember quite a few people knocking willis before the draft saying he was not top 10-11 pick....

whu? kidding right?

His size was question his ability to shed tackles that he was no AJ hawk. "shrug"

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derekshank Newbie

derekshank

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I wanted Ellis as much as anybody... but I like the Rivers pick. The Bengals got Peko in the 4th... and this is a deep DT draft, so all hope is not lost on that front. Besides, what I like about Rivers is the emergence of a true WSLB. The Bengals haven't had a strong WSLB since Simmons was in his prime.

I really think this strengthens the Bengals defense a lot. If they draft a big DT later on, Rivers, Odell, Brooks, and Jeanty all have strong pass-rushing ability. I think the defense can start rebuilding now, perhaps get an identity, and most importantly, start giving those 1st round CB's some help. I'm not overjoyed... but I'm pretty happy.

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blueridge Newbie

blueridge

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The Bengals just wasted a top 10 pick in my opinion. I like Keith Rivers and he's a solid player... but not worth that high of a selection. They could have landed a Landon Johnson clone in the 2nd or 3rd round instead of reaching for this guy.

Any guy i take in the top 10 better be a playmaker and Rivers is not that. He's weak rushing the passer and he's not a playmaker. He's just a solid guy that will show up for work everyday and play his role but nothing more.

And for another year the Bengals will have a big hole at Dtackle. We and everybody else on earth knew teams were going to move ahead of them to take the linemen but they twiddled thumbs and let those guys get snapped up. Very disappointing to me.

Obviously, every idiot has an opinion.

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blueridge Newbie

blueridge

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Loser! Loser! Loser!
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Pidge Newbie

Pidge

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Very good pick. Best player available and in a position of need. Taking a step and thinking about it, not too much to moan about with this pick. Hopefully Laws or Sims is there to help out or D line. We get a combo of Rivers and one of those two DTs and the rest of our 8 picks will just be gravy for me.

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DDOGG Newbie

DDOGG

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The Bengals had a need at linebacker and Rivers should be able to make an immediate impact as a rookie. He played as a true freshman at USC in 2004 and started 36 games over the next three seasons. He's a versatile player with good instincts.

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sparky151 Newbie

sparky151

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LB was not a first round need. We could find a decent LB in the 4th round. This pick was not a good match of need and value. Only a few LBs have gone in the top 10 the last few years. Those would be LaVar Arrington, Brian Urlacher, AJ Hawk, and Keith Rivers. Which one of these guys doesn't belong in the company of the others in terms of ability? Rivers is a decent but not exceptional player. He gives us good depth at LB but doesn't answer our needs at DT, RB, or WR.

We really, really botched it by not trading to 7 for Ellis. The Bengals 3rd round pick is in front of the Saints and the Pats would have only had to drop 2 spots instead of 3. I would have done the deal without even requiring a 5th back from NE though we probably could have still gotten it.

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kingwilly Newbie

kingwilly

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LB was not a first round need. We could find a decent LB in the 4th round. This pick was not a good match of need and value. Only a few LBs have gone in the top 10 the last few years. Those would be LaVar Arrington, Brian Urlacher, AJ Hawk, and Keith Rivers. Which one of these guys doesn't belong in the company of the others in terms of ability? Rivers is a decent but not exceptional player. He gives us good depth at LB but doesn't answer our needs at DT, RB, or WR.

We really, really botched it by not trading to 7 for Ellis. The Bengals 3rd round pick is in front of the Saints and the Pats would have only had to drop 2 spots instead of 3. I would have done the deal without even requiring a 5th back from NE though we probably could have still gotten it.

agree

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TJJackson Veteran

TJJackson

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Three points, startng with the negative, since,well, y'all would have a heart attack if I actually liked a 1st round pick

1) They could have (and most certainly SHOULD have) traded up and taken Ellis. New Orleans gave up almost nothing to move up ahead of us. We could have easily given more and taken this pick, but I suspect we made little or no effort to do so. Our FO sucks. Like we didn't already know that. *sigh*

but that said

2) This is a top athlete with excellent size/speed (I love speed, right WCA?) and great character marks. In general, I will take this kind of player all day long. I have some worries about his productivity in 2007, but I have to remember all the other playmakers on that USC defense...there's only so many tackles to go around

and

3) I recall feeling this way when we wanted and needed (from my point of view, anyway) Manny Lawson and (keep in mind this is how I felt at that moment) had to SETTLE for Jonathan Joseph. Two years later, I definitely am happier with what JJ has done over what Manny has done. It is possible I will be happier with Rivers at the end of 2008 and 2009 than I would be with Ellis, but you know I will be watching Sedrick Ellis in NO closely over that same period of time

so

This is a case of - I'm not thrilled with the pick, but closer to happy than to not happy.

finally

a) Funny - I'd bet a dollar that Jacksonville was absolutely certain we'd take Harvey at 9...two teams had in essence planned their moves specifically with our plans in mind

B) nowhere near the worst draft ever, hehe - but check with me late tommorrow. There are plenty of "frosty rucker' type picks that the Bengals could potentially make between then and now

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kingwilly Newbie

kingwilly

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Three points, startng with the negative, since,well, y'all would have a heart attack if I actually liked a 1st round pick

1) They could have (and most certainly SHOULD have) traded up and taken Ellis. New Orleans gave up almost nothing to move up ahead of us. We could have easily given more and taken this pick, but I suspect we made little or no effort to do so.

but that said

2) This is a top athlete with excellent size/speed (I love speed, right WCA?) and great character marks. In general, I will take this kind of player all day long. I have some worries about his productivity in 2007, but I have to remember all the other playmakers on that USC defense...there's only so many tackles to go around

and

3) I recall feeling this way when we wanted and needed (from my point of view, anyway) Manny Lawson and (keep in mind this is how I felt at that moment) had to SETTLE for Jonathan Joseph. Two years later, I definitely am happier with what JJ has done over what Manny has done. It is possible I will be happier with Rivers at the end of 2008 and 2009 than I would be with Ellis, but you know I will be watching Sedrick Ellis in NO closely over that same period of time

so

This is a case of - I'm not thrilled with the pick, but closer to happy than to not happy.

finally

a) Funny - I'd bet a dollar that Jacksonville was absolutely certain we'd take Harvey at 9...two teams had in essence planned their moves specifically with our plans in mind

B) nowhere near the worst draft ever, hehe - but check with me late tommorrow. There are plenty of "frosty rucker' type picks that the Bengals could potentially make between then and now

Well summarized. BTW, this years Frostee so far is another USC DE, L. Jackson.

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jjakq27 Newbie

jjakq27

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I read a piece in the paper today by Mark Curnutte about Merrill Hoge and all of the pre-draft research he does for ESPN. They had Ellis, Rivers and Mendenhall rated as possible picks and his quote about Rivers was as follows:

"He is an every-down guy. On first and second downs, in the box against the run, I didn't see anybody better at knowing where the lanes are. And he can tackle. He doesn't miss tackles."

I've got no problem with sure and steady. How many long runs have we given up because guys whiffed in the hole? Just make the sure plays and we'll go from there.

Good article too BTW.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...260394/1066/SPT

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NYBengalfan Newbie

NYBengalfan

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:blink:

First of all, I looked through all of the messages, and I dont know why atleast one third of you aren't happy with this pick. Personally I thought that we got the pick of the draft as far as linebackers go.

........ But I forgot that a large percent of our fanbase lives in Buckeye territory and was sipppin on the Vernon Gholston koolaid.

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alleycat Newbie

alleycat

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One thing to think about with Rivers. Zimmer just let something out in the press conference, calling Rivers and Brooks hybrids. Both of these guys have 3-4 size and speed. Our base may remain 4-3, but this may feed into the 3-4 looks he wants to blend in heavily - and I wonder if an emphasis on those looks means you need to think about drafting different sorts of D-Lineman. Like a true nose tackle, which Ellis, frankly, isn't.

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kingwilly Newbie

kingwilly

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One thing to think about with Rivers. Zimmer just let something out in the press conference, calling Rivers and Brooks hybrids. Both of these guys have 3-4 size and speed. Our base may remain 4-3, but this may feed into the 3-4 looks he wants to blend in heavily - and I wonder if an emphasis on those looks means you need to think about drafting different sorts of D-Lineman. Like a true nose tackle, which Ellis, frankly, isn't.

this is why I thought we'd grab for a Groves or Campbell...Putting Brooks and Geathers outside (and Jeanty/Henderson) should satisfy Zimmers desire for "hybrid" guys...

With Rivers/Jones/Thurman in the middle, LB appears stabilized....

Maybe getting an Okam, Bryant or Rubin will fit better (bigger/uglier) for what Zimmer wants?

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