Carson Comeback

[akiliklingler]

I think we can all agree that Carson sucked it up today. Everyone has bad days, what concerns me more, is that in the past 2 years, all of our losses boil down to 2 scenarios.

1. We play the Pats, Colts, etc. and we're so star-struck, the Bengals are more concerned about getting Tom Brady's autograph than winning the game.

Or

2. We're down by a score with under 3 minutes to play and a chance to win and/or tie and.... well, you know what happens next.

Carson's good, but until he can actually drive the O down the field and win a damn game, he's just outside of the group of elite QB's. How many damn times is he driving the team down at the end of the game and throws a pick?! Last time I remember him doing anything remotely great at the end of the game is in '04 when he emerged by killing the Ravens at Baltimore in the 4th Qtr. It's not always his fault, but come on, every week their in this scenario and it plays out the same every time.

Besides TEN & PITT our schedule's pretty easy, here's to hoping we don't win 4-6 games and lose out on a good DT or DE in the draft.

[HoosierCat]

No doubt Carson is having a down year. He came into this game with 16 TDs and 10 picks, so he's now at 18/14 for the year, and a 91 rating overall -- which was already a career low. That certainly didn't improve today.

In his defense, I will say this: It's all on Carson this year because this team has none, zero, zippo, running game. Rudi has been junk this year, Watson just average (and as always Jeremi seems to be the forgotten man). Until we get a threat at RB, we're a one-dimensional offense -- and when you have to throw the ball 40 times a game bad things are going to happen.

[BengalszoneBilly]

No doubt Carson is having a down year. He came into this game with 16 TDs and 10 picks, so he's now at 18/14 for the year, and a 91 rating overall -- which was already a career low. That certainly didn't improve today.

In his defense, I will say this: It's all on Carson this year because this team has none, zero, zippo, running game. Rudi has been junk this year, Watson just average (and as always Jeremi seems to be the forgotten man). Until we get a threat at RB, we're a one-dimensional offense -- and when you have to throw the ball 40 times a game bad things are going to happen.

Especially when he was staring down his intended receiver as he left the line of scrimmage. He seldom looked anyone off.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I would like to see Palmer be a little more gutsy and play better in the pocket, for one. Manning threw what, 5 INt's last week? It happens to the best of em (see one Brett Favre over his career).

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Henry and Chad are head cases and you get what you pay for - drops in critical situations, suspensions and general stupidity to go along with their spectacular plays.

The Bengals' will always be the Bengals though, there's just no hope for this franchise as it stands. It will probably always be this way so I just don't care all that much. I expect them to lose every week and a playoff spot is something you see once every 15-20 years.

Mike Brown doesn't give a damn, if he did, he would make more of an effort to get better, but he doesn't. Therefore he doesn't get a cent of my $ and probably never will.

I found it humorous this weekend when my buddies literally couldn't give away their tickets to the next 2-3 games, and they didn't bother selling them online, as there was already 200+ other tickets for sale.

I read where Marvin Lewis even bought a bunch last week, lol. What a loser.

[cincyhokie]

I would like to see Palmer be a little more gutsy and play better in the pocket, for one. Manning threw what, 5 INt's last week? It happens to the best of em (see one Brett Favre over his career).

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Henry and Chad are head cases and you get what you pay for - drops in critical situations, suspensions and general stupidity to go along with their spectacular plays.

The Bengals' will always be the Bengals though, there's just no hope for this franchise as it stands. It will probably always be this way so I just don't care all that much. I expect them to lose every week and a playoff spot is something you see once every 15-20 years.

Mike Brown doesn't give a damn, if he did, he would make more of an effort to get better, but he doesn't. Therefore he doesn't get a cent of my $ and probably never will.

I found it humorous this weekend when my buddies literally couldn't give away their tickets to the next 2-3 games, and they didn't bother selling them online, as there was already 200+ other tickets for sale.

I read where Marvin Lewis even bought a bunch last week, lol. What a loser.

As depressing as that sounds it's true. I'll watch this team as much as I can, hold out as much hope for each season as I can, but in reality things do not have a chance to change until Mike Brown dies. Even then things may not change as the team will still be owned by the Brown family.

Mike Brown wants to win, it's just that winning is not his priority. Winning to him is a side benefit. Winning to him takes alot of "luck". Mike Brown was quoted once in 2001 saying "The Steelers got their diamond in the rough with Maddox, we'll keep trying to find ours. It has to happen eventually."

You see, Mike Brown wants to win, it's just that he thinks 1 winning season in 17 years is just simply "bad luck".

[Bobcat Bengal]

Carson's good, but until he can actually drive the O down the field and win a damn game

He actually did just that last year vs the Broncos.

A long bomb to Chris Henry, it was definitely a back-breaker.

Too bad no one remembers it cuz Chad false started at the snap.

[bengalspride1219]

I think we can all agree that Carson sucked it up today. Everyone has bad days, what concerns me more, is that in the past 2 years, all of our losses boil down to 2 scenarios.

1. We play the Pats, Colts, etc. and we're so star-struck, the Bengals are more concerned about getting Tom Brady's autograph than winning the game.

Or

2. We're down by a score with under 3 minutes to play and a chance to win and/or tie and.... well, you know what happens next.

Carson's good, but until he can actually drive the O down the field and win a damn game, he's just outside of the group of elite QB's. How many damn times is he driving the team down at the end of the game and throws a pick?! Last time I remember him doing anything remotely great at the end of the game is in '04 when he emerged by killing the Ravens at Baltimore in the 4th Qtr. It's not always his fault, but come on, every week their in this scenario and it plays out the same every time.

Besides TEN & PITT our schedule's pretty easy, here's to hoping we don't win 4-6 games and lose out on a good DT or DE in the draft.

how about when he put the bengals in scoring position for both the broncos and steelers last year?

this whole team chokes

every team

and i know i know.. we do see that carson palmer sack+fumble to end the game too often as well. (last year atl.. etc. etc)

anyways this team shouldnt be in this position to just barely lose every week..

[HoosierCat]

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Bullsh*t. Other teams have worse o-line's that ours -- which is average at this point -- yet still manage to run the ball successfully. Why? They have backs who don't rely on the o-line blowing huge holes open every play, who can cut back or get outside, who can make the first guy miss, or who have a second gear then can hit in the open field. We don't. Rudi is, at this point, junk, Watson is average, and Dorsey is...well, who knows?

Sadly given all the draft picks they've thown at the position, RB is the No. 1 need on this offense right now.

[scxeezy]

I predicted that INT today. I was watching the game with my dad, just like any other week, and I told him when we got the ball down 8 that I smell an interception coming. It has happened time and time again on game ending drives for us when trying to come from behind. Either an INT, or a fumble or some other STUPID mistake.

And what's up with our star WRs dropping easy catches at crucial moments?!?!? It was Chad a couple weeks ago, and now Cheech has joined in.

Tank the season!!! Let's go for a high draft pick and a favorable schedule next year. And let's hope we do the right thing with both!

[Kazkal]

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Bullsh*t. Other teams have worse o-line's that ours -- which is average at this point -- yet still manage to run the ball successfully. Why? They have backs who don't rely on the o-line blowing huge holes open every play, who can cut back or get outside, who can make the first guy miss, or who have a second gear then can hit in the open field. We don't. Rudi is, at this point, junk, Watson is average, and Dorsey is...well, who knows?

Sadly given all the draft picks they've thown at the position, RB is the No. 1 need on this offense right now.

If the bengals are in postion to get Mcfadden or J.Stewart I would not complain at all if we took them,hopefully Irons comes back and give us a good 1-2 attk.

[chandon]

[i agree. When you have little or no running game, and your opponants know you have to throw to move the chains you are far more likely to get picked-off as they will mark-up the receivers and put pressure on the QB...knowing he is not going to pull a fast hand-off but will drop to throw. Expect to see more int in the coming game and CP's stats go through the floor, unless we develop our running game.

Chandon

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Bullsh*t. Other teams have worse o-line's that ours -- which is average at this point -- yet still manage to run the ball successfully. Why?

No way. At this point our line isn't even close to average. I'm seeing multiple D-linemen in the backfield right after the snap on nearly every running play. Andrews is bad, Kooistra is a joke, Levi's playing like crap, and Willie is currently a corpse. Center play has been spotty (even when Guyhjfdc has been healthy). Whitworth has looked OK, but not stellar. Bobbie Williams has been the only good lineman all year, and as of last year he was the weakest link on the line. And he hasn't gotten better, it's just that everything around him has gotten worse.

[HoosierCat]

No way. At this point our line isn't even close to average.

Yeah, it is. It's got issues but crappy o-lines don't produce 3,800-4,000 yard passers (which Carson is on pace for) and they certainly don't explain why we have two backs with virtually equal carries, but one (Watson) is averaging 4.4 yards and the other 2.6. The run game's woes, and for that matter the passing game's woes, aren't on the o-line.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

No way. At this point our line isn't even close to average.

Yeah, it is. It's got issues but crappy o-lines don't produce 3,800-4,000 yard passers (which Carson is on pace for) and they certainly don't explain why we have two backs with virtually equal carries, but one (Watson) is averaging 4.4 yards and the other 2.6. The run game's woes, and for that matter the passing game's woes, aren't on the o-line.

A couple of effects there:

1) By all accounts, this is Carson's worst season (aside from his first), right? So that should shed some light there. Granted there are confounding variables (Chad's meltdown), but he still hasn't had the time he would probably like. They've been throwing underneath a lot this year. That says a lot about how much time he has. As for yards - you know as well as I do that's because the defense giving up 30+ points a game forces a lot of passes, and also because the running game as a whole, well, sucks. I'd also say the line is far better at pass blocking than run blocking. They just can't get any push.

2) While I'm not impressed by Rudi this year, Watson's style lends itself better to a bad line, being a faster, outside the tackles type.

This situation is one that doesn't easily lend itself to shallow stats analysis. Time after time, I'm seeing Rudi getting nailed 3 yards in the backfield. There are very rarely any holes between the tackles That ain't his fault.

[Jet23]

Like so many before him, Carson Palmer has been 'benglized'. Mike Brown pretends to be an honorable man. At one point does he look in the mirror and feel guilty about ruining yet another promising career? Dillon got the he!! out. Pickens got the he!! out. Spikes got the he!! out. I can not blame these people for being smarter than I.

Carson Palmer would take a real organization to multiple Super Bowls. As long as Mike Brown is in charge, winning season will never be more than the product of the law of averages. It's not Marvin; it's not Bresh; it's not Brat. It's Mike Brown, it has always been Mike Brown.

My advice to Carson; get the he!! out. Demand a trade, refuse to play. I, for one, would not blame you one bit.

[Bobcat Bengal]

[i agree. When you have little or no running game, and your opponants know you have to throw to move the chains you are far more likely to get picked-off as they will mark-up the receivers and put pressure on the QB...knowing he is not going to pull a fast hand-off but will drop to throw. Expect to see more int in the coming game and CP's stats go through the floor, unless we develop our running game.

Chandon

yeah, CHEERS to Carson f**king up the rest of the season.

[HoosierCat]

1) By all accounts, this is Carson's worst season (aside from his first), right? So that should shed some light there. Granted there are confounding variables (Chad's meltdown), but he still hasn't had the time he would probably like. They've been throwing underneath a lot this year. That says a lot about how much time he has. As for yards - you know as well as I do that's because the defense giving up 30+ points a game forces a lot of passes, and also because the running game as a whole, well, sucks. I'd also say the line is far better at pass blocking than run blocking. They just can't get any push.

2) While I'm not impressed by Rudi this year, Watson's style lends itself better to a bad line, being a faster, outside the tackles type.

This situation is one that doesn't easily lend itself to shallow stats analysis. Time after time, I'm seeing Rudi getting nailed 3 yards in the backfield. There are very rarely any holes between the tackles That ain't his fault.

So ignore the stats and pay attention to the games. Half the time I watch Carson drop back I end up screaming "throw the ball" because he holds it so long these days. Why? Because no one is coming open. Henry's return has helped...now if only Chris would grow some b*lls and make the tough catch even tho he's about to take a hit. As for the run game, you're right, there haven't been a lot of holes -- but that was my point. When you have a back who can make somethings happen on his own, you don't need an o-line that opens up big holes every play. Watson can do that far more than Rudi, which is why he's running better. With Rudi, the opposition knows he's no threat to break it outside, all he's going to do is bring it straight up into the line, so they just throw everything into the middle of the field...which is why they blow through the line and nail him for a loss so often these days.

I'm not saying the o-line is playing well, but it ain't the heart of the problem. We have no threat at RB, no threat at TE, for the first 8 games had a crippled WR corps, and even now have a No. 3 who's afraid to take a hit and a No. 1 whose play has been inexcusably sloppy. When you're down to Carson-to-TJ it isn't hard for a Rolle to figure out where to look for the big play.

[BengalChamps]

Part of Carson's problem is that he knows how bad the D sucks. It forces him to take chances that he wouldnt otherwise take. He is feeling the pressure of knowing that if he doesnt do it, it wont get done.

[COB]

It's the o-line and lack of a running game. Yesterday you could see those DBs sitting on routes. On the slant route Chad ran, the DB just smelled it and sold out to it. He didn't even have Chad, the corner did, but he slid right over. They don't have to respect the run, so they are free to take chances.

Also - Please recognize and give credit to some really excellent DBs and LBs. That phase of Arizona's D right now is damn impressive.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Bullsh*t. Other teams have worse o-line's that ours -- which is average at this point -- yet still manage to run the ball successfully. Why? They have backs who don't rely on the o-line blowing huge holes open every play, who can cut back or get outside, who can make the first guy miss, or who have a second gear then can hit in the open field. We don't. Rudi is, at this point, junk, Watson is average, and Dorsey is...well, who knows?

Sadly given all the draft picks they've thown at the position, RB is the No. 1 need on this offense right now.

I don't necessarily disagree but again I think you and others here overrate the o-line, which I won't go into again, but anyone who thinks Guy-chick or Williams or that Whit is a good guard, are fooling themselves. And Andrews and Levi are sucking up the place at tackle - Carson makes them look good because he gets rid of the ball so quickly.

Watch the Pats or Colts and they plug RB's in there and win with little problems. You can't tell me Maroney and Faulk are that much, if any, better than Rudi and Kenny (and I have no doubt Rudi is either hurt or done). The Pats have a 5th round tackle starting for them. Why can't Alexander develop or scout guys like that? Andrews is junk, just a big, athletic body who can stand in someone's way for now like Guy-chick.

Quit giving the crappy o-line a free pass as well as Alexander and his horrid schemes, that only work when multiple pro bowl caliber players are healthy and on that line - anyone can do that.

Nothing works on offense consistently if you can't block or protect. The Bengals' have some really poor talent upfront at this point.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Bullsh*t. Other teams have worse o-line's that ours -- which is average at this point -- yet still manage to run the ball successfully. Why? They have backs who don't rely on the o-line blowing huge holes open every play, who can cut back or get outside, who can make the first guy miss, or who have a second gear then can hit in the open field. We don't. Rudi is, at this point, junk, Watson is average, and Dorsey is...well, who knows?

Sadly given all the draft picks they've thown at the position, RB is the No. 1 need on this offense right now.

I don't necessarily disagree but again I think you and others here overrate the o-line, which I won't go into again, but anyone who thinks Guy-chick or Williams or that Whit is a good guard, are fooling themselves. And Andrews and Levi are sucking up the place at tackle - Carson makes them look good because he gets rid of the ball so quickly.

Watch the Pats or Colts and they plug RB's in there and win with little problems. You can't tell me Maroney and Faulk are that much, if any, better than Rudi and Kenny (and I have no doubt Rudi is either hurt or done). The Pats have a 5th round tackle starting for them. Why can't Alexander develop or scout guys like that? Andrews is junk, just a big, athletic body who can stand in someone's way for now like Guy-chick.

Quit giving the crappy o-line a free pass as well as Alexander and his horrid schemes, that only work when multiple pro bowl caliber players are healthy and on that line - anyone can do that.

Nothing works on offense consistently if you can't block or protect. The Bengals' have some really poor talent upfront at this point.

[COB]

It's the o-line and lack of a running game. Yesterday you could see those DBs sitting on routes. On the slant route Chad ran, the DB just smelled it and sold out to it. He didn't even have Chad, the corner did, but he slid right over. They don't have to respect the run, so they are free to take chances.

Also - Please recognize and give credit to some really excellent DBs and LBs. That phase of Arizona's D right now is damn impressive.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It's the o-line and lack of a running game. Yesterday you could see those DBs sitting on routes. On the slant route Chad ran, the DB just smelled it and sold out to it. He didn't even have Chad, the corner did, but he slid right over. They don't have to respect the run, so they are free to take chances.

Also - Please recognize and give credit to some really excellent DBs and LBs. That phase of Arizona's D right now is damn impressive.

Yeah they were reading and jumping routes all over the place. You tend to see that when the other team's players are smarter and better prepared. Palmer doesn't have any passing lanes either, his lineman get pushed around all over the place and he has a hard time getting settled in the pocket or stepping into throws half the time. Even the usually reliable JJ was having trouble picking up blitzers along with Watson for some reason.

[Jet23]

The real problem here is the poor 0-line play, the penalties and the drops by the WR's, and as HC mentioned, no running game (due in large part to the poor o-line play).

Bullsh*t. Other teams have worse o-line's that ours -- which is average at this point -- yet still manage to run the ball successfully. Why? They have backs who don't rely on the o-line blowing huge holes open every play, who can cut back or get outside, who can make the first guy miss, or who have a second gear then can hit in the open field. We don't. Rudi is, at this point, junk, Watson is average, and Dorsey is...well, who knows?

Sadly given all the draft picks they've thown at the position, RB is the No. 1 need on this offense right now.

I don't necessarily disagree but again I think you and others here overrate the o-line, which I won't go into again, but anyone who thinks Guy-chick or Williams or that Whit is a good guard, are fooling themselves. And Andrews and Levi are sucking up the place at tackle - Carson makes them look good because he gets rid of the ball so quickly.

Watch the Pats or Colts and they plug RB's in there and win with little problems. You can't tell me Maroney and Faulk are that much, if any, better than Rudi and Kenny (and I have no doubt Rudi is either hurt or done). The Pats have a 5th round tackle starting for them. Why can't Alexander develop or scout guys like that? Andrews is junk, just a big, athletic body who can stand in someone's way for now like Guy-chick.

Quit giving the crappy o-line a free pass as well as Alexander and his horrid schemes, that only work when multiple pro bowl caliber players are healthy and on that line - anyone can do that.

Nothing works on offense consistently if you can't block or protect. The Bengals' have some really poor talent upfront at this point.

And they will continue to throw high draft picks at a line that has never been anything but barely average, on their best day (which is apparently waaaay behind them). I am still waiting for Alexander's first successful developmental project. We have seen fire Marvin, Brat and Bresh threads. How this guy gets a pass is beyond me.

[HoosierCat]

Quit giving the crappy o-line a free pass as well as Alexander and his horrid schemes, that only work when multiple pro bowl caliber players are healthy and on that line - anyone can do that.

Nothing works on offense consistently if you can't block or protect. The Bengals' have some really poor talent upfront at this point.

I'm not interested in giving the o-line a pass, but when it comes to the running game they are simply not the place I'm going to point the finger first. Hell, you want to talk about bad o-lines, look at last season's roulette wheel up front. Carson nearly got killed. But despite an even worse o-line last season, Rudy still managed more that 1,300 yards. This year's squad is definitely better than that, yet our newer, slimmer, allegedly scattier Rudi v2.0 can't get a yard to save his life.

Just as a Palmer can make the line look better than it is, so can a real RB. Put in someone who can take it outside and defenses can't just come swarming up the middle. But that's all they have to do now, because they know thats where the ball will be: Rudi can't get outside and Carson's a pure drop-back passer, not a scrambler or roll-out artist. And I don't think that situation changes much, if at all, even if you put the Pats o-line in front of Rudi and Palmer.