BOTTOME LINE..BENGALS HAVE TO SIGN A LB

[schnarfer]

To say the least, our LB corps is weak. We have no idea of Brooks is going to pan out. Odell is up in the air as is Pollack. We are in no way even avarage with landon johnson, Miller, and Jeanty. The only options we have now are going after a injury prone Arrington or hartwell, or a trade for Spikes or Briggs. At this point I am really wandering what the reasoning was in releasing Simmons. He was by no means spectacular but was solid and a good veteran....I am a bit confused as to which way the Bengals are leaning. I do not even want to imagine of a rookie starting at Lb for us. Which way are they going to go?

[djdannos]

We will be fine, even if we draft Willis or another LB and eventually grab a LB like Edwards or someone, Brooks, Odell and Landon will be starting...

Does anyone remember who went to the SB two years ago, Seattle and who started at LB...oh year rookie Lofa Tatupu and rookie Leroy Hill...

Why is everyone hating on the players, Odell yeah he Fkd up but if he gets his cra_ together which I think he will, everyone loved his play his rookie yr...and Brooks has much talent and will get the training camp he missed and Landon and Caleb and Jeanty are solid with another year under their belt, basically 3 4th year players (albeit Jeanty has 3 in CFL but they are football yrs)...

[James_Brooks21]

To say the least, our LB corps is weak. We have no idea of Brooks is going to pan out. Odell is up in the air as is Pollack. We are in no way even avarage with landon johnson, Miller, and Jeanty. The only options we have now are going after a injury prone Arrington or hartwell, or a trade for Spikes or Briggs. At this point I am really wandering what the reasoning was in releasing Simmons. He was by no means spectacular but was solid and a good veteran....I am a bit confused as to which way the Bengals are leaning. I do not even want to imagine of a rookie starting at Lb for us. Which way are they going to go?

They are going toward having the worst LB core in the NFL, that's the way they are going. Like I said before if we don't have the worst linebackers in the league then we are second next to San Francisco. Bengals need to do something going into the season with the guys we have plus maybe a rookie I don't know how anybody can get excited about that. I got tired of Willie Parker running it down our throat last year, I guess I'm going to see more of that this year.

[James_Brooks21]

We will be fine, even if we draft Willis or another LB and eventually grab a LB like Edwards or someone, Brooks, Odell and Landon will be starting...

Does anyone remember who went to the SB two years ago, Seattle and who started at LB...oh year rookie Lofa Tatupu and rookie Leroy Hill...

Why is everyone hating on the players, Odell yeah he Fkd up but if he gets his cra_ together which I think he will, everyone loved his play his rookie yr...and Brooks has much talent and will get the training camp he missed and Landon and Caleb and Jeanty are solid with another year under their belt, basically 3 4th year players (albeit Jeanty has 3 in CFL but they are football yrs)...

You are a real optomistic guy, I like you if only that stuff would materialize. Please don't compare a NFC team getting to the Superbowl to our road to the Superbowl, everybody knows that the NFC is watered down and that the real Superbowl is the AFC Championship. Do you really think that Seattle would have made it to the Superbowl that year if they would have had to play AFC teams to get there? Hell no! That linebacking core is garbage, the only linebacking core that is worst is San Fran all the rest of the teams have at least one good linebacker to call on. I'm not counting on Odell Thurman, one we don't know what kind of shape he is going to be in when the season starts, two he just spent a year away from football after only one season in the NFL that sounds like back to square one to me. Make a move and get somebody to anchor that line that's all I'm asking. I did not want Joey Porter so I applaud that non-move.

[Stripes]

Draft.

[Kirkendall]

Man, linebackers is double-edge sword. In a perfect world:

Odell Thurman, a finalist with Merriman for defensive rookie of the year.

David Pollack. Super fantastic bad-ass.

Landon Johnson. Mr. Durability.

Rashad Jeanty. Flashes of stable consistency.

Caleb Miller. Played well for a backup.

Ahmad Brooks. The new Stacey Andrews project.

OTOH.

Johnson/Jeanty/Miller/Brooks. f**k.

[hrod382]

Ahmad Brooks would be the top LB taken in this years draft had he stayed out of trouble, top 10 easy. Even last year he would've probably gone top 20.

You all are underrating him, he isn't raw... Just rusty. He's extremely athletic and instinctive, he will start MLB or SLB next year and do so succesfully. He's sideline-sideline and just has a nose for the ball.

You could tell it had been almost a year since he played football, he seemed overwhelmed at first but still I think he had 13 tackles in his first start vs. the Bucs. He just struggled in coverage. He practiced at SLB until the week before Tampa and came from a 3-4 defense so it's understandable that he was unfamiliar with where he should be.

Then, either Odell plays MLB or Ahmad does. Jeanty is fine at SLB if Ahmad is in the middle. I really want to take Lawrence Timmons out of FSU for WLB. Rufus Alexander could be there in the 2nd.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Ahmad Brooks would be the top LB taken in this years draft had he stayed out of trouble, top 10 easy. Even last year he would've probably gone top 20.

You all are underrating him, he isn't raw... Just rusty. He's extremely athletic and instinctive, he will start MLB or SLB next year and do so succesfully. He's sideline-sideline and just has a nose for the ball.

You could tell it had been almost a year since he played football, he seemed overwhelmed at first but still I think he had 13 tackles in his first start vs. the Bucs. He just struggled in coverage. He practiced at SLB until the week before Tampa and came from a 3-4 defense so it's understandable that he was unfamiliar with where he should be.

Then, either Odell plays MLB or Ahmad does. Jeanty is fine at SLB if Ahmad is in the middle. I really want to take Lawrence Timmons out of FSU for WLB. Rufus Alexander could be there in the 2nd.

Thing is, if you're going to play LB, especially, MLB, you have to be smart and disciplined. Brooks is neither. If their plan is to let him snort some lines, lineup on the edge, and be LT, then fine. But that's the extent of his grasp of a defense, I think.

[gpaige]

Round 1: Houston/Willis/Nelson

Round 2; Harris/Pitcock/Rouse

[James_Brooks21]

Man, linebackers is double-edge sword. In a perfect world:

Odell Thurman, a finalist with Merriman for defensive rookie of the year.

David Pollack. Super fantastic bad-ass.

Landon Johnson. Mr. Durability.

Rashad Jeanty. Flashes of stable consistency.

Caleb Miller. Played well for a backup.

Ahmad Brooks. The new Stacey Andrews project.

OTOH.

Johnson/Jeanty/Miller/Brooks. f**k.

I agee on that, if those four will be our starting linebackers next year then we are in trouble. I know the Bengals fans with rose colored glasses on will write that we are too hard on those guys but come on, that's a 150 rushing yards per game linebacking core if I ever seen one. I have us going into the draft needing two linebackers and two corners. I say two corners because Deltha Oneal might need replacing the way he was playing last year, I can't really say anything about that Indy game I don't know if Peyton was making perfect throws or Deltha just had bad technique so I give him a pass on that. But he did not look like he had his head in the game much of last year, hopefully with this challenge Marvin put on him he will bounce back. Nickel corner is a must though, if we have Keiwan Ratliff playing nickel for us and that group of linebackers starting we might be looking at the worst defense we have ever had.

[Kirkendall]

Ahmad Brooks would be the top LB taken in this years draft had he stayed out of trouble, top 10 easy. Even last year he would've probably gone top 20.

You all are underrating him, he isn't raw... Just rusty. He's extremely athletic and instinctive, he will start MLB or SLB next year and do so succesfully. He's sideline-sideline and just has a nose for the ball.

Underrating? NO. That would signify enough of a sample size to actually rate someone. Underestimating? 100% possible -- and how can something be 100% possible? But that tends to happen when an opinion of a player is based on faith and belief over on-the-field performances.

Personally speaking, when he struggled to start ahead of Caleb Miller, my opinion of him dropped. We'll see though... I hope he comes through, because honestly, we're in trouble if he doesn't and Thurman and Pollack are no-shows in 2007.

[BTG]

Here are a few things about our current crop of linebackers:

Pollack was really talented, but IMO, he will never be the same. You can't just come back from a serious neck injury and play with the (to use a cliché), reckless abandon that you need as an NFL linebacker.

Grade: before injury = B-plus / after injury = somewhere between a D and a C-plus

Thurman is a bit undisciplined (remember his tendency to bite on PA fakes?), but he is the best linebacker of the bunch. You can't argue with 98 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 5 INTs, and 4 passes defended as a rookie. Then again, he is one jaywalking citation away from working at a grocery store with Stanley Wilson.

Grade: A...if he plays. F-minus-minus if he doesn't.

Brooks has all the talent in the world, but is unproven and undisciplined. 11 tackles and a pass defended against Tampa impressed everyone in Bengaldom, but he regressed after that and was eventually benched. He could be a great player for the next 10 years, but then again, he could be another Steve Tovar.

Grade: Somewhere between a C-plus and an A.

Landon Johnson is solid and makes a bunch of tackles, but he's not really an impact defender in any way. Three seasons, 285 tackles, 2.5 sacks, one interception, 8 passes defended is not really all that impressive. He'd be better off being used as depth. The same goes for Caleb Miller. 99 tackles, but only one sack, no picks, and 3 passes defended. They're both slightly above average linebackers.

Grades: B-minus for Johnson / C-plus for Miller.

Jeanty is talented and could maybe turn into a B-plus overall player, but he plays like a converted end...which is exactly what he is. With a bit of polish his grade could be higher.

Grade: C

AJ Nicholson...honestly, I have no idea. I never saw him play at FSU, and he didn't play at all for us last year.

Grade: TDB

Anyone have anything to add to this?

[gpaige]

Brooks, Thurman, Jeanty, Johnson, and Willis/Pozlusny/Timmons, will be a fine corps of LBs for years to come.

Combine that with another speed CB and suddenly the defense doesn't look so shaky or vulnerable.

Free agents are expensive 'quick fixes' that seldom return the money inevsted in them. Building through the draft is the best way to get players of your own choosing that you can mold into your system (if you consistently adhere to a system, that is).

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Brooks, Thurman, Jeanty, Johnson, and Willis/Pozlusny/Timmons, will be a fine corps of LBs for years to come.

Combine that with another speed CB and suddenly the defense doesn't look so shaky or vulnerable.

Free agents are expensive 'quick fixes' that seldom return the money inevsted in them. Building through the draft is the best way to get players of your own choosing that you can mold into your system (if you consistently adhere to a system, that is).

Again, there are plenty of examples around the league of winning teams that take part in "competitive" FA who are successful doing so.

This notion that the Bengals' are different than every other team, and that it's working for them, and has, is hogwash that no one can seem to back up with W/L records here.

Like draft picks, FA's some times don't work out. But more often than draft picks, they do, because you know what you're getting - and it's worth paying a premium for ultimately in a lot of cases.

[Whur CHad At?]

Nicholson given a year or two could be a starter. He is a good LB, and was a stud at FSU. Would of been a 1st, 2nd round pick if he would of stayed out of trouble. He is a lot like Ahmad Brooks. Dont give up on this guy,yet.

[GregCook]

The Bengals aren't that bad at LB with three guys with NFL ability in Jenty, Johnson and Miller. Brooks could be our beast in the middle but that is unproven. I don't count on Odel because I don't want to

count on a guy(recovering alcoholic at that) that is one more substance abuse offense away from a NFL ban of at least another year. Clearly though, they need to draft a day 1 LB. They have an average LB group on a bad defense.

[HairOnFire]

This notion that the Bengals' are different than every other team, and that it's working for them, and has, is hogwash that no one can seem to back up with W/L records here.

2005 - 11-5, AFCN Division Championship, Playoff Berth*

*This is the point of our story where you respond bitter tears and endless reminders about the lost decade that you can't seem to get over.

[schweinhart]

Brooks, Thurman, Jeanty, Johnson, and Willis/Pozlusny/Timmons, will be a fine corps of LBs for years to come.

Combine that with another speed CB and suddenly the defense doesn't look so shaky or vulnerable.

Free agents are expensive 'quick fixes' that seldom return the money inevsted in them. Building through the draft is the best way to get players of your own choosing that you can mold into your system (if you consistently adhere to a system, that is).

Again, there are plenty of examples around the league of winning teams that take part in "competitive" FA who are successful doing so.

This notion that the Bengals' are different than every other team, and that it's working for them, and has, is hogwash that no one can seem to back up with W/L records here.

Like draft picks, FA's some times don't work out. But more often than draft picks, they do, because you know what you're getting - and it's worth paying a premium for ultimately in a lot of cases.

After Kevin Hardy, Nate Webster and Hanibal Navies in the Marvin era, I'd rather see the Bengals go draft again. They've gotten burned twice with Odumb and Pollack but the drafted backers they've put on the field have played well enough to keep the team in games. Lawrence Timmons would be the one top LB in this draft who would give them something they haven't had -- a blitzer from the strongside and out of the nickel. Until they figure out how to get to the QB better, decent QBs will pick them apart now matter.

[TJJackson]

For a man with a heart of a pig, you make a good point :-)

Given the choice in football between two equally talented defenders, I favor the bigger one, because the bigger ones start closer to the football. I see us winning more games than we lose when we control the line of scrimmage, and of course, to even say so is tired and well-trod ground

So yeah, all else being equal, Id rather see us take a linebacker than a corner or safety if all else seems equal.

Let us not forget that we lost another linebacker - Marcus Wilkins - to free agency and draftees are typically called upon to play special teams. I can see us drafting at least one and as many as three linebackers in the upcoming draft. Honestly.

[JPW]

BOTTOM LINE...NO THEY DON'T.

[hrod382]

Thing is, if you're going to play LB, especially, MLB, you have to be smart and disciplined. Brooks is neither. If their plan is to let him snort some lines, lineup on the edge, and be LT, then fine. But that's the extent of his grasp of a defense, I think.

The guy missed an entire season of football and practiced at SLB for the entire season until Simmons went down and he got swapped to MLB so you can understand him getting lost out there. His physical tools are undeniable and he's an incredible tackler (who doesn't let the RB carry him 3 yards before taking him down). It's just a matter of getting comfortable with the speed of the game. He was most lost in coverage but in run support I was very impressed with his ability to weave through traffic.

He MUST (and will) start next year. Hopefully at SLB because Odell is in the middle.

[derekshank]

I am not sure how much we are planning to do in free agency... but I could really be in favor of getting Tommy Polley. I wonder how much his injury that IR'd him last year might effect him (I think it was a shoulder?), but before the injury Polley was a good tackler, had athleticism and hands to make interceptions, and his speed is perfect for the 4-3 OLB position the Bengals need.

I don't know how much he is hoping for in free agency... but after sitting the entire year out last year, he might be as good a bargain we can get at a position of need. But it's probably just wishful thinking on my part (although the Bengals were looking at Porter... so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they're willing to spend money to bring in a LB).

[volcom69]

Im not to sure they are going to sign anyone, i guess Marvin thinks he can we with the def. they got. Im still not liking this def at all but dont worry he assures everyone this teams def will be much better, maybe this year we can get it to the 27 ranked def. So the def will still not have a leader or the LB wont have a vet to look up to, i just cant belive they arnt going to sign anyone.

[cover2]

People have penciled Thurman in and he is a major question mark.

Pollack will not be back. You don't come back from and injury like that.

Simmons is gone.

How is this defense ranked as low as it was last year going to be better? One thing you had to love about

K2 the guy got better every year. He was an important guy off the bench.

Thorton is going to make the team? How can you pay him a starters money?

There are many more questions than answers on defense. It would take something big to take us off the bubble 32/32.

I hear people saying well we got this guy and we got that guy, right , we had those guys last year and what did they do for us? Landon and Caleb are not starters. It doesn't matter how many tackles they make.

We need people who can stop people at the line of scrimage.

[HairOnFire]

People have penciled Thurman in and he is a major question mark. Pollack will not be back. You don't come back from and injury like that. Simmons is gone. How is this defense ranked as low as it was last year going to be better?

Why do so many of you fear the changes being made in a defense ranked as low as the Bengals?

As for the players who may not be back this season...Thurman didn't play a single down last season, so whatever he produces this season is a plus. Pollack played two snaps before his season ended, so anything he gives is a plus. At worst, the Bengals can now plan from the very start of the season for his absence. And by all means shed a tear or two for the loss of Brian Simmons, but remember that he missed nine games last season with a neck stinger.