BengalsZone Big Board '07

[TJJackson]

oooOOOOO can it be me?

(or am I too easy a target for it to be any fun?)

[HairOnFire]

....here's the problem with your last several posts. I used to like you. Now you're just acting like an a**h***. In your attempt to try to get the masses turned against Hair (many of whom already dislike the guy, so it shouldn't have been difficult) you simply turned guys who had nothing invested in the argument against yourself. You have now come off as a conceited, self-important, condescending a**h***. If that was your goal... job well done.

I've often wondered if I should try harder to be popular. For example, maybe Schweinhart would like me better if I stroked his hair while he was blowing me?

[derekshank]

....here's the problem with your last several posts. I used to like you. Now you're just acting like an a**h***. In your attempt to try to get the masses turned against Hair (many of whom already dislike the guy, so it shouldn't have been difficult) you simply turned guys who had nothing invested in the argument against yourself. You have now come off as a conceited, self-important, condescending a**h***. If that was your goal... job well done.

I've often wondered if I should try harder to be popular. For example, maybe Schweinhart would like me better if I stroked his hair while he was blowing me?

Well, I like you Hair. Probably because despite your polarizing personality, I find you pretty funny.

[HairOnFire]

Well, I like you Hair. Probably because despite your polarizing personality, I find you pretty funny.

[schweinhart]

Surely by now Hair you know that it's not a question of being liked. If you were to do the mocks here you would know what I mean because it's a no-win situation from that standpoint. Everybody bitches about the picks and uses whatever they're armed with to attack, be it somebody elses's opinion or their own. Not just here but also fans of many other teams who pick up the Zone mock here and elsewhere.

I watched the same thing with chrishcovga before I started doing the mocks here. But what I liked about the way he approached what he did was that it was his own, warts and all just like the rest. Now I seriously doubt you could do it because, you'd be guaranteed to be wrong. It's not that you think mock drafts are beneath you, it's because you are a p***y plain and simple. And you obviously have ample time to waste.

And as for blowing you, you always did sound queer to me. I'd much rather invite you to a job site and nail gun your pecker to a subfloor, provided of course you sign a waiver and there is enough there to shoot a nail through.

But I'm not here to digress further about your personal preferences even though you are an extremely easy target, but no where near as easy as Shank who really should learn to keep his dog out of a fight that's not his unless he wants to see its eyes mauled out.

I will address a couple points you make Hair about the evaluation process for the purpose of a mock. Back to chrishcovga, what I liked most about what he did was that he did it for its own sake and for the right reasons -- it was his own and he liked doing it. There's a spirit here behind the Zone mock that starts with him and I've tried to maintain -- Make the mock your own and make it original to the Zone or else there'd be no real reason not to have anything more than a database.

Which brings me to your comment of doing a mock from a list of team needs. See, Hair these kind of comments where you think you know something is true when I know it's not and it makes you smell like the pathetic POS that you are.

Here's how I do team needs: print out rosters and depth charts from both nlf.com and team sites after the season is over then adjust them based on free agency, cuts and injured reserve lists. I also go to nflpa.org and check contract info for upcoming year pay spikes or big drops and players coming into their final year or 2 years of their contracts. I'll search as much as I can for for information about bonus options due for high priced players, which can impact team activities both before and after June 1st.

That's how I determine team needs for a mock. The only time I see other lists team needs are the ones scrolled by nfl.com or espn and those posted up when somebody's doing commentary but all those tend to start running by the time I've rolled into Day 2.

And it's funny that an example of how pathetically wrong your sorry a$$ is because I had a Colts fan e-mail about how glad he was to see somebody actually have the Colts pick a WR in the 1st round. He said he hadn't seen any other mocks that did that. He didn't like the receiver but can't win them all.

And there's the flip side. A Lions fan irate that I had picked Quinn for the Lions early on. Maybe no other mocks had Quinn picked back then, I don't know. But I e-mailed back that the Lions were in the same position the Bengals were in when they drafted Palmer -- a disatrous season the year before with Jon Kitna behind center to let the fledgling franchise QB watch and learn for a year.

As for other people's value rankings, there's one source I use from the outset of the season -- GBN Report's positional list, which does in fact rank seniors but not so many early entry potentials. The list is pretty thorough but far from complete and the rankings in September to start off a season are quite different I'm sure from what they've got now. Still, it's nice resource and I add players as I go that aren't listed.

So here's how I deal with rankings: 1st and foremost the players I look at come from what I watched the previous year. So say for 2008, there's already a list of players I've got, both seniors and underclassmen. Then I watch games and get the rosters usually from school sites or aol. And I write down what I see happen. This goes on throughout the season, the bowl games and the all-star games.

So there's the bunch of cocks your queer a$$ llikes to visualize. How's it feel to be so wrong. Is it starting to get to you? Chafe your twat, pinch your clit, Princess.

But it does merge into your point about being able to see speed. Corners more than any other position are speed dependent draft wise and it's harder to tell how fast one is in coverage than it is to get them all out on the same track and let them run. That way there's no dispute even though the issue of game speed does surface due to training for the run. The fact that Revis did not run at the combine where that level field is made me drop him some until he proved otherwise. Why hide the time? But Revis sure looked fast enough to me on the punts he returned long and I had no problem with his game speed against what amounts to significantly lesser competition for the most part than say what Chris Houston faced in 2006.

So real opinion wise, my opinion on Revis was already set as a mid 1st rounder for months based on what I did see and only dropped, which I will do for DBs, WRs, LBs and sometime RBs, based on not running at the combine. Speed kills and the best way to measure straight speed is all at once. And I always graft the straightline speed onto the game speed because like they say the speed of the game at the next level is faster and the CBs got to have the speed up front if their not zoners.

And I don't get your apparent retardation about Schlereth. I'd like to see what Schlereth said. If it was exactly the same, be spooked. If this was recent, I'm not sure why you would really have a hard time believing I'm saying what I say, especially when I've said the same thing about Moss several times before now and have kept him between pick and 10 and 15 over the course of the zone mocks.

The only one here without credibility is you Hair on Fire and Shank who's spiralling down the drain even faster than you by now. The harder you try, the queerer you to get.

I'm glad there's some real talk left here so if I can pull Hair's dinky out of Shank's bung, so to speak, I'll say I'd expect to see Boss drafted among the 1st tree tall TEs to go in Day 2 but a lot of that is by default and team interest in him.

What I've seen or know of Boss is limited to all-star game play, clips and the combine and/or pro days like other small school players like Michael Allan and Zac Herold. A good athlete who can play pretty much sums all 3 of those players up.

I like Allan's build better as a blocker down the line but Boss looked to me like he had the better receiving skills in drills at the combine, which these tall TEs are going to be evaluated by first and foremost because they usually tend to be average blocking TEs at best. I'd say the same for clips I've seen of him and I'd put him ahead of the bigger school tall TEs like Joe Newton and Clark Harris. Newton didn't show me he can block anywhere well enough for the NFL and Harris leaves too much to be desired as a receiver who is going to struggle to going get the separation he needs.

But for the Bengals, I really would rather not see them draft any of these tall TE types. If they draft a TE at all, I'd rather see a blocking TE with some developable receivable skills late like Dan Coates or a solid receiving TE with decent blocking potential like Chris Hopkins.

Otherwise, I'd say give Tim Day and Ronnie Ghent their shot to compete for a spot and add another couple undrafted rooks into the mix including Coates and Hopkins if they don't go.

[chrishcovga]

Interesting discussion I see going on here. I appreciate the words of respect from Schweiney, and it reminds me of why I stopped doing the Mocks here 2 years ago.

- When I was doing the mock, I basically got " HATE-MAIL" not only from Bengalszone members but from team fan sites, fanatic fans ( which we all are ) and the list goes on. The thing I found myself doing was feeling the need to "defend" my selections. I have to say, I don't feel the need to defend myself whether right or wrong. I'm a grown a$$ man. I do, I never try. I don't threaten, I just punch. So listening to you guys argue and cuss each other out and I have to ask , For what ???

- Neither of us, ( including me ) were or are getting paid to do this. - I consider myself to be a bit of a nut, because ever since I was 17, which is half my lifetime ago, I have been infatuated with the NFL draft. I love everything about it, even the stuff I hate. If I had a dying wish, it wouldn't be for world peace or some other useless idea as that, but just once would I love to have Mike Brown Taped/roped/shackled/ and gagged to a chair that is being towed by a greyhound Bus cross country while the NFL draft is going, and your's truly(ME) is sitting their in the War Room deciding on the Bengals picks.

- First and foremost lets' establish something for this weekend. Let us all be thankful to the Most High, for our health, friends, families, and opportunities known or unknown. Let us all take this time to bow our heads in respect for our fellow man/woman/child etc. etc..

- Now down to business....

[HairOnFire]

Wow, I thought this thread had been deleted.

Schweiny, I couldn't care less what you think about me. You strike me as a self important little prig who either couldn't see or take an obvious joke about our longstanding disagreement on which CB was a better prospect. So instead of laughing it off and responding in kind you go out of your way to make it clear that the only opinion you really respect is your own. Well, your own opinion and the ones that you borrow.

Funny thing though. I was right and you were wrong. The Jets gave up a boatload of picks to move up and take Revis while the guy you pimped fell completely out of the 1st round. But that's okay, everybody gets 'em wrong....especially someone who attempts to have an opinion on every prospect available. As you're well aware I don't bother doing that. I simply give my own opinions on the players that I know well enough to actually form an opinion about, and the rest of them I say nothing about.

Meanwhile, you've got an opinion on everybody and are even so well informed that you can name two or three players who won't even be drafted that are better than players that you know I liked who just happened to be drafted in the top 15 by people who actually know football. And that makes me think those people would laugh in your face almost as loudly as I'm doing right now.

And again you demand that I do a mock to prove my manhood? Well, what are you...twelve-years old? I've repeatedly said that I think almost all mock drafts are completely stupid and without worth of any kind, and my lack of participation in the mock draft forum is proof of that. Simply put, I don't respect anyones mock draft very much because most are lucky to get a third of the picks correct. And you have to admit that you might as well throw every mock ever written directly in the trash from the moment the first trade is announced, never mind a situation like todays draft where the entire start to the 2nd round was changed by a flurry of trades.

The simple fact of the matter is this. Mock drafts are very stupid things and most people eventually learn that. In fact, I figured it out years ago. And "your boy" Chrishcovga figured it out two years ago. So maybe someday you'll realize what a stupid little fugtard you're being. It just takes some people longer than others.

Well, that's it. There's probably not much more for me to say other than go f**k yourself.

[kurgan74]

Antwan Barnes

LB Florida International

[Stripes]

I don't really care about the poo-flinging, but I'll speak in defense of casual mock drafts.

I highly doubt that anyone whom put together a mock draft on this site expected his/her projections to end up close to reality. It's a hobby, and hence it is fun. Anyone is free to disagree with that, but those who do should recognize it's just a way to kill time and talk about the prospects -- not a serious or formal set of predictions.

On the contrary, mock drafts from major sources (i.e. Kiper) that actually are intended to be accurate are usually stupid.

[HairOnFire]

I have to say, I don't feel the need to defend myself whether right or wrong. I'm a grown a$$ man. I do, I never try. I don't threaten, I just punch. So listening to you guys argue and cuss each other out and I have to ask , For what ???

Don't ask me. I'd say Schweiny couldn't take a joke, went mental, and then got madder when I started making actual fun of him. To be fair, I could have ignored it but it's kind of fun poking at somebody that is as puffed up as he is.

For example, did you read the bit where he threatens to fight me? Or the part about getting even with me by using a nailgun? I mean c'mon, you've just got to make fun of people who are that stupid, don't you? Or how about the part where he actually searched through the archives to find out when he said something? Who else would bother?

And at some point he's got to calm down, right?

[HairOnFire]

I don't really care about the poo-flinging, but I'll speak in defense of casual mock drafts.

I highly doubt that anyone whom put together a mock draft on this site expected his/her projections to end up close to reality. It's a hobby, and hence it is fun. Anyone is free to disagree with that, but those who do should recognize it's just a way to kill time and talk about the prospects -- not a serious or formal set of predictions.

Fair enough. Let's agree that despite the fact that nobody in their right mind would claim them to be accurate they're just harmless fun at best, and only incredibly stupid when done by self important blowhards like Schweiny.

But here's a question that's just begging to be asked. If someone demanded you write a 7 round mock draft as a way to prove your manhood, how stupid would that demand be?

Pretty freaking stupid, right?

[HoosierCat]

I don't really care about the poo-flinging, but I'll speak in defense of casual mock drafts.

I highly doubt that anyone whom put together a mock draft on this site expected his/her projections to end up close to reality. It's a hobby, and hence it is fun. Anyone is free to disagree with that, but those who do should recognize it's just a way to kill time and talk about the prospects -- not a serious or formal set of predictions.

On the contrary, mock drafts from major sources (i.e. Kiper) that actually are intended to be accurate are usually stupid.

[schweinhart]

Now that the smoke is cleared

I'll apologize to Hair for the ambush. There's a lot of vitriol that gets spewed during the draft and hopefully this lessened the personal attacks on people who just want to speak their minds even if their way off base. Maybe out of bounds to take this upon myself but so be it. I knew I'd be hit or miss for the draft days because of all I got going on.

And besides, I knew I could count on Hair both because of his vanity and his ability to keep his feet and punch back. So all's fair.

The longer term aspects of this also developed as we went with Hair right on cue and maybe this gets considered as a demo for the next Bengalszone mock drafter. Depending on how the flip I've been busting ass to get listed by May 1 goes, I'll either be just coming up for air come football season or doubled up w/o the time it takes to commit to the 7 round process.

Does it matter to have a Bengalszone mock draft? I'd say yes but only if its as original as original can be for what it takes to do it. If it's somebody just regurgitating somebody else's opinions, then I'd say less so. And fun and games or not, it should have enough accuracy to be a plausible enough reference that a site like thefootballexpert can list it high on their database. So it goes.

It does take a lot of time and committment but also a mindset that considers attacks from others as a perk like farver beans and a nice Chianti.

Thanks for leaving the thread up mods and hope I didn't put anybody in a pickle.