BengalsZone Big Board '07

[Kazkal]

Wheres the CB love

[HoosierCat]

Wheres the CB love

None at all right now, I'm afraid.

BTW I do like your idea of trying to trade our first to someone like Oakland. Maybe throw in a day two pick so we can get a total of 2 seconds and 2 thirds. Draft seems pretty deep at DT and OLB, not so much at corner. Take a CB at the top of the second then BPA at DT, OLB and DE with the other three picks?

[TJJackson]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but do the Raiders (to use your example) have two third round picks to give up? We don't have a third in 2007, so I assume your "2 thirds" are coming from them?

[Kazkal]

(hopfully someone jets really want is on the board when we pick ) I just like the idea of trading down minus a huge talent because other then TE I just don't see any other postion having a rookie starter...CB seems like it would be good to take someone 20-40ish(I like fred bennett aslong as he doesnt have keiwan speed)....heck if we could get 4 day 1 picks mybe we could even snatch Matt Spaeth

[HoosierCat]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but do the Raiders (to use your example) have two third round picks to give up? We don't have a third in 2007, so I assume your "2 thirds" are coming from them?

Yah, I had that wrong.

[Kazkal]

Teams that have extra day 1 picks (minus NE)

Bucs:2 2nds(BUC+IND)

Jets:2 2nds (jets + redskins)

Next best thing would probbley trade down top 10 in 2nd rounder...for a top 10 3rd rnder...I wonder would steinbach could fetch us

[HoosierCat]

Teams that have extra day 1 picks (minus NE)

Bucs:2 2nds(BUC+IND)

Jets:2 2nds (jets + redskins)

It would take our 1st and 3rd. Right now we're around 26 in the draft; our first is worth 700 points on ye olde draft trade value chart. The Bucs combo would be worth in the neighborhood of 830 and the Jets combo around 800. Our 3rd is worth 140 points, so that'd about do it (the 4th is worth just 50, way short).

Still not a bad deal, we end up with 3 2nd rounders on day 1. DT and OLB are deep enough we could get some good players...maybe burn the third pick on an RB?

Obviously, numbers could change...

[schweinhart]

You never know. They bulked Pollack up his junior year, and he was less productive... so he went back down nearer to his sophomore weight and became a 1st round selection.

Kind of the same issue with Robert Geathers progression as a Bengal. It seems like teams try to put more weight on guys... but when they learn they are less productive, and more than willing to let them slim back down.

Yes, trying to adjust players by weight or switching them positionally can backfire Reinhard Wilson style with a high pick. Pollack looked like he would have excelled at SSLB, though, but he had such incredible short area quickness that he could swing it.

But I'm always for letting the DTs be DTs and the DEs be DEs. What the Bengals braintrust did with Jumpy Jr. last year was stupid but at least they did stop kicking him down to DT as much in the 2nd half of the year. He's much better slimmed down like he was his rookie year and has shown the ability to drop back into coverage.

Last, I spent last week wading through my vacation-pack of old newspapers, and just stumbled upon an article from earlier in the week where Jackson was directly quoted about his plans to return for his senior season. He's definately not entering the NFL early.

Jackson isn't the only Trojan per GBN and USC fans should be real happpy if Sam Baker, Jackson, Sedrick Ellis and Keith Rivers all stick around for their senior years.

http://www.gbnreport.com/juniorscoreboard.html

With Jackson out and I'll say dropped stock in DEs Adam Carriker, Victor Abiamiri and Tim Crowder, it opens the door for some other early entry DEs listed by GBN. Add Jamaal Anderson, Charles Johnson, Kenny Iwebema, Chris Ellis and Jarvis Moss to the DE draft list and Day 1 gets shook up.

[Spor_tees]

Teams that have extra day 1 picks (minus NE)

Bucs:2 2nds(BUC+IND)

Jets:2 2nds (jets + redskins)

It would take our 1st and 3rd. Right now we're around 26 in the draft; our first is worth 700 points on ye olde draft trade value chart. The Bucs combo would be worth in the neighborhood of 830 and the Jets combo around 800. Our 3rd is worth 140 points, so that'd about do it (the 4th is worth just 50, way short).

Still not a bad deal, we end up with 3 2nd rounders on day 1. DT and OLB are deep enough we could get some good players...maybe burn the third pick on an RB?

Obviously, numbers could change...

We don't have a third.

[Bengalbob]

Anybody watch the Rutgers vs WVU game?

TE Clark Harris Rutgers 6-6 260

He was phenomenal!

He is supposed to be the best Blocking/Pass Catching TE in the draft and better yet, he is not considered a 1st / 2nd rounder. He is rated "early 3rd round" which would make him perfect for us to pick up in the late 2nd! So that we don't miss out on him like we did Fasano and Scheffler last year!

But in all seriousness, he looked very good running routes and blocking in the run game for the Rutgers backs.

This is a guy I would like to see in Orange and Black stripes!

Plus Clark is a snapper with some wits about him:

Tight end Harris contributing in big way on special teams

By KEITH SARGEANT

Gannett New Jersey

CINCINNATI -- In a season heading into which he was billed as an All-America tight end, Clark Harris' biggest contribution might be as Rutgers' long snapper.

While Harris' statistics are down compared to the past two seasons, he's made quite an impact snapping on field goals and punts.

Harris' brightest moment came last week against Louisville, when in the waning seconds he purposely quick snapped to holder Anthony Cali after seeing a Cardinals player jump offsides.

"Right before I snap, usually I look up," Harris said. "Out of the corner of my eye, I saw the guy shoot off from the corner, so I snapped it just to give us another chance in case he missed it."

Harris' quick thinking and quick snap proved crucial when Jeremy Ito hooked his 33-yard attempt. The 5-yard penalty gave Ito a reprieve and the Scarlet Knights' junior booted a 28-yarder through the uprights, giving Rutgers a 28-25 victory.

"I knew he was blatantly offsides when I snapped the ball," Harris said, "but I was just hoping he (the official) made the right call in that situation."

I like this even more after the debacle in Denver!

Also, FYI I stumbled across a good draft site the other day that I thought you guys might enjoy:

Draft Jungle

If you go to the page for the Bengals it shows a breakdown of how a lot of other mock drafts see the Bengals going:

Bengals Page

You guys may have already found this site, but I wanted to pass it on just in case.

[HoosierCat]

The Mighty Quinn continues to ice over Moses' attempts to part the sea to the Promised Bengal-land, but skating across the ice is the brash newcomer with the tongue-twisting name, Louisville's own Amobi Okoye. Okoye surges onto the board for the first time with four votes, but still trails Ouinn the Eskimo, who is again pushing toward his previous double-digit high.

The real eye-popper, though, is the current consensus among the drat congnicenti as to the position the Bengals will draft: DT by a landslide. 23 of 33 mockers give the Cincinnati club a defensive tackle in the first. Finally, before we get to the multi-vote rundown, props must be given to heard's Football Report, which has FINALLY figured out that Troy Smith will not be wearing stripes next year...

By Name:

DT Quinn Pitcock 9 (+1)

DT Amobi Okoye 4 (+4)

DT Tank Tyler 3 (+1)

DT Glenn Dorsey 3 (+1)

TE Greg Olsen 3 (no change)

DT Alan Branch 2 (+1)

OT Jake Long 2 (no change)

DE Quentin Moses 2 (-1)

By Position:

DT 23 (+5)

TE 4 (+1)

DE 3 (no change)

OL 2 (no change)

S 1 (no change)

[schweinhart]

Pitcock, Okoye, Tyler, Dorsey and Branch (no chance in Hades there) should all fare well in stripes but I'm still not convinced DT is the smartest route for the Bengals to try to improve their defense. Sure, something that resembles a pocket push from the DTs would be a welcome sight but the run D with who they have now has been quite a welcome sight...finally. Now with Thornton and B-Rob entering their last contract year and Doublewide Sam headed for AARP in a hurry, the Bengals do need to eye the position and if a DT is the BPA in the 1st and their other choices are gone off the board, I could see it happening.

But IMO, the much urgent need on defense remains DE (with or w/o Justin) and CB. The Bengals need another CB with sound man skills, quickness and recovery speed.

[HoosierCat]

Now with Thornton and B-Rob entering their last contract year and Doublewide Sam headed for AARP in a hurry, the Bengals do need to eye the position and if a DT is the BPA in the 1st and their other choices are gone off the board, I could see it happening.

But IMO, the much urgent need on defense remains DE (with or w/o Justin) and CB. The Bengals need another CB with sound man skills, quickness and recovery speed.

Well, my flag remains firmly planted in camp DT (which, of course, probably means it's the last thing the Bengals should do ) but I wouldn't complain about at DE or CB too much. Frankly, I'm pretty much OK with anything on the defensive side of the ball, we got needs just about everywhere.

[HoosierCat]

It will be interesting to see how the board changes now that the bengals will be picking 3-6 picks higher than most had been projecting them to. Probably means a better shot at a good DE or DT; they have been a popular pick in the 18-20 range in many mocks.

[Stripes]

I'd say our biggest needs are DE, OLB, CB, and DT, in that order. Therefore, we'll pick a fullback.

[HoosierCat]

I'd say our biggest needs are DE, OLB, CB, and DT, in that order. Therefore, we'll pick a fullback.

...who will immediately be converted to our strong safety of the future.

Anyhow, gbn confirms my calculations elsewhere: Bengals pick 18th overall in the first.

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.htm

[Bengalbob]

Pitcock, Okoye, Tyler, Dorsey and Branch (no chance in Hades there) should all fare well in stripes but I'm still not convinced DT is the smartest route for the Bengals to try to improve their defense. Sure, something that resembles a pocket push from the DTs would be a welcome sight but the run D with who they have now has been quite a welcome sight...finally. Now with Thornton and B-Rob entering their last contract year and Doublewide Sam headed for AARP in a hurry, the Bengals do need to eye the position and if a DT is the BPA in the 1st and their other choices are gone off the board, I could see it happening.

But IMO, the much urgent need on defense remains DE (with or w/o Justin) and CB. The Bengals need another CB with sound man skills, quickness and recovery speed.

Which DEs and CBs are going to be around when we pick? Will we have the pick of the litter (other than Gaines Adams)? What about safety? Second round?

[schweinhart]

I like Chris Houston, maybe even in the 1st. Antoine Cason is a great CB also and to a lesser degree Leon Hall and Marcus McCauley. Darrelle Revis of Pitt is the most intriguing to me, though, and is the only one of those who could also double as a dangerous return man. But Revis is going to have to show he's got the straightline speed to play in the bigs or he'll drop to zone rather than man corner.

DE is simple IMO...Jamaal Anderson if he enters. But there's other players who could boost the Bengals like LaMarr Woodley and Anthony Spencer as both both a down DE rusher and strongside LB. The Bengals have got to do someting to improve their pass rush whether it's free agency or draft.

Quality safeties should be around in Day 2, including some interchangeable ones. The most interesting IMO is Kevin Payne of Louisiana Monroe. He's got some man skills to boot and is a tackling machine all over the field. He's got a metal plate in his forearm suffered when he played RB but he's played 2 years now at safety w/o any shatter. Plus, the guy is a helluva punter and improves his value as a back-up emergency punter.

Another safety is Eric Weddle. During the Utah bowl game, the sideline gal reported about her conversation about Weddle's hope to become the only Caucasian CB in the NFL. Doubt that happens, but Weddle is a patroller and hitter ala John Lynch. He's a great athete and even played QB in some run formations for the Utes plus holds FGs.

The safety I think who has the most ground to gain is Marvin White of TCU. He can interchange and flat out fly to ball. Michael Johnson of Arizona and John Wendling of Wyoming are prototype SS who also stand to rise on boards if they can keep up with the speed. Josh Gattis of Wake has the most ground to lose, though. He's played through injuries this year but has not separated himself from the pack the way he could have and has maybe cornered himself as only a deep coverage safety.

Safeties I think are enormously overated are Brandon Meriweather, Aaron Rouse and Tom Zbitkowski.

And there's a cluster of decent safeties who should be there in Day 2: Sabby Piscitelli, Joe Sturdivant, Kedrick Alexander, Wes Smith, Leonard Peters and Josh Sherley. The Bengals should have no problem getting a decent safety in Day 2 this year if they want.

[HoosierCat]

Updated mocks starting to roll in around the net. (They are feeding in from the bottom so scroll down on the database page to see the new ones.) Interestingly, not a great deal of change. Of the 13 updated mocks with picks, DT is still the overwhelming favorite position with 9 votes (and Pitcock still in the lead with 5 of those).

The one trend that is emerging is LB. In the last update, not a single LB was chosen, the position had totally fallen off the radar. Now we have 4 LB votes on the board, 3 for Pos and one for Timmons.

[HoosierCat]

Just a note: one of the many DTs being eyed as a Bengal, Frank Okam of Texas, has said he'll be returning to the Longhorns for his senior year.

[Kazkal]

Pitcock, Okoye, Tyler, Dorsey and Branch (no chance in Hades there) should all fare well in stripes but I'm still not convinced DT is the smartest route for the Bengals to try to improve their defense. Sure, something that resembles a pocket push from the DTs would be a welcome sight but the run D with who they have now has been quite a welcome sight...finally. Now with Thornton and B-Rob entering their last contract year and Doublewide Sam headed for AARP in a hurry, the Bengals do need to eye the position and if a DT is the BPA in the 1st and their other choices are gone off the board, I could see it happening.

But IMO, the much urgent need on defense remains DE (with or w/o Justin) and CB. The Bengals need another CB with sound man skills, quickness and recovery speed.

Agreed inless his name is branch I reallt don't wanna see a DT in rnd one inless hes by far BPA.....same goes for rnd 2.Rnd 4 though all up for DT hopfully Paul Soliai will be left .....I woulden't complain if we took a DT rnd 1 but tired of people thinking its like the only postion we need upgrade on defense...

[schweinhart]

Yeah Branch would be the one but not gonna happen. Of all positions defensively, DT is the one that's most set in the short term IMO. The run D of the Bengals did improve this year and even with the yards racked up by the Steelers in the last game it took about 40 carries for Parker to get his and the most damaging runs were the Bengals getting Whizzed on a Hines Ward run and a big Big Bozo scramble on a Justin Smith overpursuit on pass rush.

Now if they could just get a DT to push the pocket better on pass rush....Is that worth a 1st rounder? I'd say it would be worth a 4th, especially if Marcus Thomas is still there. He's got all the things the Bengals would look for -- great penetration, unbelievable quickness and plus he was kicked out of school and has a criminal record. Soliai would most definitely be worth a 4th rounder for a bigger DT if he's still there but the Bengals might also look at his teammate Kelly Talavou in Day 2 who's kind of in between Peko and Fanene size and quickness wise. I like Fanene as a DE but not as a DT. I wish the Bengals would stop trying to use undersized DT's but the history of Marv in Cincy is that he won't stop. The worst run I saw in that Steelers loss was a 2nd and 8 at the Bengals 11 and I think it was Fanene at RDT but he got blown off the line so fast it looked more like a bug getting pressure washed off a deck. It was a spectaclular atheltic move for him not to just get immediately pancaked. End result was the ball at the 1 and probably the biggest hole opened along the D-line interior that I'd seen all year.

[HoosierCat]

Yeah Branch would be the one but not gonna happen.

Ya never know. As kurgan noted in his mock Okoye is rising (tho he may be coming on too soon). And at least one scout ranks Dorsey higher than Barnach. See:

http://saintsreport.com/mike_detilliers_draft_corner.html

[Kazkal]

It was a spectaclular atheltic move for him not to just get immediately pancaked. End result was the ball at the 1 and probably the biggest hole opened along the D-line interior that I'd seen all year.

Was 1 play but I agree for most part I don't really wanna see anymore undersized Dlinemen on our team which been one reason been agaist pitcock even though hes good guy

[schweinhart]

Yeah Branch would be the one but not gonna happen.

Ya never know. As kurgan noted in his mock Okoye is rising (tho he may be coming on too soon). And at least one scout ranks Dorsey higher than Barnach. See:

http://saintsreport.com/mike_detilliers_draft_corner.html

I'd take Dorsey over Okoye but Branch should be 1 of the Top 5 physical freaks of the draft up there with JaMarcus and Calvin Johnson.