Bengals Make Trade: Orien Harris for Brian Leonard

[gregstephens]

Hopefully the shoulder holds, but the more I read on Leonard, both as a player and a character guy, the more I like the move. Harris wasn't going to pan this year anyway.

[Kazkal]

I'm actually a little disappointed to hear the Bengals view Leonard primarily as a RB, but in their defense they don't seem very interested in the "Thor's Hammer" style of FB. In fact

Well that's part of the reason why I like the idea of taking two fullbacks use Pressley as a dominate lead blocker type,Then keep Vakapuna around as someone who is better at running/catching the ball...I just think with Leonards Size 228 lbs and his skillset he'll end up a better RB in the nfl then full......

[Baraka]

at 228 i'm not sure why he was ever thought of as a fb in the nfl

[Wraith]

He is a good blocker and played FB in college leading the way for Ray Rice at Rutgers

[Baraka]

i've never in my life heard of a 228 lbs fb in the nfl

[gregstephens]

He is a good blocker and played FB in college leading the way for Ray Rice at Rutgers

Yeah, but good lord, playing FB at Rutgers isn't exactly bowling into the big boys in the SEC. Those guys train on biscuits and gravy (ummm...biscuits and gravy <drool drool>).

[Kazkal]

He is a good blocker and played FB in college leading the way for Ray Rice at Rutgers

And he was a good running back before Ray Rice,Seemed like the Rams problem is they thought of him as a FB and then picked up Mike Karney(255),Jerome Johnson(249) so seem they wanted to go with the punishing lead blocker type FB....I just think he would be much better off being a runningback for us and using J.Johnson,Chris Pressley or Fui vakapuna @ Fullback.

Let this man clear the path for our running backs

This man can be the Threat & Fullback

And let this man Jump Defenders

[HoosierCat]

PUtting him at FB was basically just an attempt to find a spot for him, He just didn't fit the new regime's plans. There's a good post on it here:

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2009/5/8/8693...-leonard-a-bust

[Kazkal]

PUtting him at FB was basically just an attempt to find a spot for him, He just didn't fit the new regime's plans. There's a good post on it here:

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2009/5/8/8693...-leonard-a-bust

WHich makes it a score for us hopefully .

[HairOnFire]

at 228 i'm not sure why he was ever thought of as a fb in the nfl

Fwiw, I've seen his weight listed as high as 237 and as low as 225. In fact, when I first heard about the trade I flashed back to some old pre-draft material and everything I've got lists Leonards weight as 235. But now everything I stumble across says 227.

[Clackwoods]

Hopefully the shoulder holds, but the more I read on Leonard, both as a player and a character guy, the more I like the move. Harris wasn't going to pan this year anyway.

I tore my rotator cuff last year and I am just fine. I didnt even get surgery on it, in fact, my dumb ass was playing flag football taking pain medication. The reason I say that is I am sure he took better care of his than I did. I am in the Marines and I do a lot of high impact training and my shoulder is tested all the time, I don't however know how it would hold up if I had to thrown on the pads again and go to work

[James_Brooks21]

Lord please let us sign a good #2 running back before training camp starts. That running back position IMHO is the weakest position that we have on the team, I am not feeling the guys we have as backups. I'm happy as hell that we did not draft a running back but we should be looking to bring somebody onboard better then Brian Leonard.

[derekshank]

Lord please let us sign a good #2 running back before training camp starts. That running back position IMHO is the weakest position that we have on the team, I am not feeling the guys we have as backups. I'm happy as hell that we did not draft a running back but we should be looking to bring somebody onboard better then Brian Leonard.

Dude... I get it if you don't think Leonard is a great #2. But look at it this way... The Bengals have never been afraid to rely on a bellcow. And frankly, Benson is far better suited to play that role than Rudi ever was. Benson might not have the O-line that Rudi had, but that's not going to change no matter what other RB's might be available - so there's really not much sense in worrying about it. RB isn't the real problem here.

And while you might not feel like the RB depth is great... it is 10 times better than what they went in with last year. Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, and James Johnson? Seriously?

Instead they have Cedric Benson who proved he can be very productive, Leonard (who although you don't care for, likely would have been the starter over Perry last season), and let's not forget the wild card with Bernard Scott. It's a roll of the dice to rely on a guy with so many red flags... but the Bengals have not been shy about doing such things in the past. And if he is half the talent that most people seem to think he is, your worries about RB depth are going to fade really fast.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Lord please let us sign a good #2 running back before training camp starts. That running back position IMHO is the weakest position that we have on the team, I am not feeling the guys we have as backups. I'm happy as hell that we did not draft a running back but we should be looking to bring somebody onboard better then Brian Leonard.

Dude... I get it if you don't think Leonard is a great #2. But look at it this way... The Bengals have never been afraid to rely on a bellcow. And frankly, Benson is far better suited to play that role than Rudi ever was. Benson might not have the O-line that Rudi had, but that's not going to change no matter what other RB's might be available - so there's really not much sense in worrying about it. RB isn't the real problem here.

And while you might not feel like the RB depth is great... it is 10 times better than what they went in with last year. Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, and James Johnson? Seriously?

Instead they have Cedric Benson who proved he can be very productive, Leonard (who although you don't care for, likely would have been the starter over Perry last season), and let's not forget the wild card with Bernard Scott. It's a roll of the dice to rely on a guy with so many red flags... but the Bengals have not been shy about doing such things in the past. And if he is half the talent that most people seem to think he is, your worries about RB depth are going to fade really fast.

In hindsight, it's hard to believe the Bengals broke camp with Chris Perry as the starting RB last year, with Watson and Dorsey backing him up. All three will be gone long before the season starts. I am cautiously optimistic about Leonard, but wonder why the Rams gave him up so cheap. Is he possibly damaged goods? I'm also curious about the fact that Cincinnati announced the trade prior to him having a physical with the team, although I'm sure they checked him out medically. I'm telling you, Bernard Scott will have an excellent preseason and there will be whispers about him being a starter. He was a Top 5 back in this year's draft on his ability and production. I curious to see if Cedric will continue to build on the momentum he built for himself last season or if he'll have 7 million reasons to be satisfied with what he did in '08.

All that said, Leonard is certainly an upgrade over Kenny Watson as the backup RB, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Scott beat him out, or the team add another veteran RB once they see what they have in Training Camp.

[membengal]

Count me with Derek in finding the bitching about this ridiculous. The RB situation last September was s**t.

I think they are 100% better off this time around, and love the Leonard acquisition for depth and for the impact that he can bring to games this fall.

[themaninblack]

Well I will start off by saying that I am higher on Scott than most. I feel as though he will be able to be an excellent backup to Ceddie and I also feel as though he could end up being our starting RB for years to come. Seriously, as long as this dude ends up not getting in trouble, I feel as though he can be a starting RB in the NFL. As far as this trade is concerned, I feel as though we won on all fronts. Even f Leonard ends up being damaged goods(which he probably is), I feel like this is a great chance for us to take. Essentially, we give up a DT who was probably a fringe roster-maker and we get in return a guy who can be an excellent weapon for our offense. Even if he doesn't end up panning out, I love the risk associated with this because I feel like the guy is WAY above what we paid for him.

[cincy9275]

Lord please let us sign a good #2 running back before training camp starts. That running back position IMHO is the weakest position that we have on the team, I am not feeling the guys we have as backups. I'm happy as hell that we did not draft a running back but we should be looking to bring somebody onboard better then Brian Leonard.

lenoard, is better than perry and better than you want to give him credit for. if he don't work out we cut him and bring in someone else before the season starts. the weakest postion on the team right now is center with out a doubt, the players we have, have 0 starts in a nfl game. that's my biggest concern, not who's going to be the backup rb.

[NJ29]

I'm sure this observation has been made before, but for better or worse, this offseason has transformed us into a true AFC North-style team. I love it.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I'm sure this observation has been made before, but for better or worse, this offseason has transformed us into a true AFC North-style team. I love it.

I think you are wrong there, about one thing, we maybe more capable of duking it out in the smash mouth AFCN, but we still have the talent in the passing game to get into a shootout when need be. I actually think this is the most well-rounded Bengals team in years. If we need to run it 45 times a game to win we can, if we need to pass every down to win we can, and the most interesting thing is we might even be able to rely on the defense to pick up the offense from time to time this season also. I am slowly starting to feel good about the makeup of this team and think they are 1-2 years away from becoming very good again.

[James_Brooks21]

Lord please let us sign a good #2 running back before training camp starts. That running back position IMHO is the weakest position that we have on the team, I am not feeling the guys we have as backups. I'm happy as hell that we did not draft a running back but we should be looking to bring somebody onboard better then Brian Leonard.

lenoard, is better than perry and better than you want to give him credit for. if he don't work out we cut him and bring in someone else before the season starts. the weakest postion on the team right now is center with out a doubt, the players we have, have 0 starts in a nfl game. that's my biggest concern, not who's going to be the backup rb.

First of all nobody ever questioned the trade, so stop telling me that the trade for Leonard was low risk everybody on this side of the world knows that. What I'm getting at is that their are still proven vets out there to be had. Leonard is better then Perry? Where the hell is your evidence that he is better then Perry? Oh I forgot you must have seen him running the ball at Rutgers and determined that. Leonard has count them zero touchdowns in the NFL, let me count that again for you zero touchdowns in the NFL but somehow he is an upgrade over Perry and some of you has already annoited him as our backup running back. Now don't get it confused I don't want Perry but Leonard has not proven that he's any better then Perry at this point in his career. Scott was a top five running back coming out of college this year? Where are we getting this stuff from, playing against SE Oklahoma State does not impress me. Center is a big question mark, well guess what there is not any centers out there to sign that will even compete for the starting job, but damn sure there are proven vets out there to compete for that second running back spot. We will see when the season starts though, I'm actually rooting for Leonard to kick butt when the season starts because I'm a Bengal's fan, but do I truly believe it's going to happen not in the least bit. I do have hope that Benson is hungry so maybe that will make up for our lack of depth at that position.

[whizzo]

how's he supposed to get TDs if the team doesn't give him the ball close to the goal line? by breaking a 40-yarder? good luck doing that at 230lb and 6-1. leonard has started games in place of steven jackson, he's had 100-yard games (102 yards on just 18 carries!), he's versatile. his first season, when he wasn't injured and had to start some games, he got a 3.5 yard average. perry's average this season (first time he had to take over responsibility as a starter) was a "fantastic" 2.6ypc.

leonard is definitely an upgrade over perry.

[James_Brooks21]

how's he supposed to get TDs if the team doesn't give him the ball close to the goal line? by breaking a 40-yarder? good luck doing that at 230lb and 6-1. leonard has started games in place of steven jackson, he's had 100-yard games (102 yards on just 18 carries!), he's versatile. his first season, when he wasn't injured and had to start some games, he got a 3.5 yard average. perry's average this season (first time he had to take over responsibility as a starter) was a "fantastic" 2.6ypc.

leonard is definitely an upgrade over perry.

Hold up he started the game for Steven Jackson, which means Steven Jackson was not in the game but the 230 pound running back was not given any carries by the goal line? So basically what you are telling me is that they didn't trust him even with Jackson out to the get the tough yards near the goal line, lol that's a knee slapper right there. Stop making stuff up dude, tell me what Brain Leonard did last year and what he would have did behind a Bengal's offensive line without much of a passing game threat and a shoddy offensive line. If they didn't trust him in your words to get the tough yards down near the goal line how is he going to be trusted to get any yards in this division with Pittsburgh and Baltimore and even Cleveland looking at his record, since you are bragging about his yards per carry average that year take a look at what he did against the two AFC North teams that he will be facing twice a year and get back with me and that's not even taking in account of what he would have did against Pittsburgh. Once again hell no Leonard is not the answer to being our change of pace running back if we have any aspirations of going anywhere this year, if we want to be at the top of the draft next year then depend on him as our second running back if God help that Benson goes down. But hold up to be truthful this argument is not really about Perry vs Leonard because I don't want Perry back, I want Dunn or Edge so that's who we should be comparing this guy to.

[derekshank]

how's he supposed to get TDs if the team doesn't give him the ball close to the goal line? by breaking a 40-yarder? good luck doing that at 230lb and 6-1. leonard has started games in place of steven jackson, he's had 100-yard games (102 yards on just 18 carries!), he's versatile. his first season, when he wasn't injured and had to start some games, he got a 3.5 yard average. perry's average this season (first time he had to take over responsibility as a starter) was a "fantastic" 2.6ypc.

leonard is definitely an upgrade over perry.

Hold up he started the game for Steven Jackson, which means Steven Jackson was not in the game but the 230 pound running back was not given any carries by the goal line? So basically what you are telling me is that they didn't trust him even with Jackson out to the get the tough yards near the goal line, lol that's a knee slapper right there. Stop making stuff up dude, tell me what Brain Leonard did last year and what he would have did behind a Bengal's offensive line without much of a passing game threat and a shoddy offensive line. If they didn't trust him in your words to get the tough yards down near the goal line how is he going to be trusted to get any yards in this division with Pittsburgh and Baltimore and even Cleveland looking at his record, since you are bragging about his yards per carry average that year take a look at what he did against the two AFC North teams that he will be facing twice a year and get back with me and that's not even taking in account of what he would have did against Pittsburgh. Once again hell no Leonard is not the answer to being our change of pace running back if we have any aspirations of going anywhere this year, if we want to be at the top of the draft next year then depend on him as our second running back if God help that Benson goes down. But hold up to be truthful this argument is not really about Perry vs Leonard because I don't want Perry back, I want Dunn or Edge so that's who we should be comparing this guy to.

C'mon man. Are you really this stubborn? You're arguing with ammunition like "What did he do last year?" Well he was injured at the beginning of the season, and eventually placed on IR with a torn rotator cuff. He was productive his rookie year, even though he was backing up Stephen Jackson and playing in a scheme that everyone agrees (including the Rams) didn't suit him. But yet, he still showed that he can do the job in a pinch.

But you're complaint is that Leonard is not a high quality #2. Well... guess what. That's not how they are going to use him. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that Bernard Scott ends up being the #2. And for the record... the Bengals haven't shown a propensity to use a 1-2 punch at RB since Brooks/Ickey. They've made it pretty clear that Benson is their bellcow, which is a main reason he was willing to come back. Edgerrin wouldn't see the field in a very meaningful role anyway.

So what will be Leonard's role? Think about his skill set. He's very good in blocking and has very good hands to catch passes out of the backfield, and rarely lets the first defender bring him down. Doesn't this sound like a 3rd down back to you? And he's just about perfectly suited to play that role in the Bengals offensive scheme. He was brought in to replace Chris Perry's role on the '05 team... not be the #2 or goalline back you're complaining about.

[Ickey44]

Just from watching the highlights, it looks like a good pickup if his shoulder is 100%. He's got decent speed, he can run people over (or jump over them), he can block, and he can catch. What's not to like?

[membengal]

Jeebus, even Peter King likes the pick-up.

5. I think I love the Brian Leonard trade for Cincinnati. The Bengals dealt a journeyman rotational defensive lineman, Orien Harris, for the Rams' second-round pick in 2007, who was a non-factor last year with a shoulder injury that has since healed. I've always thought Leonard was a perfect NFL swing back -- a good-enough blocker to plug in at fullback, a very good pass-catcher, and a good-enough runner to have a 20-carry game three or four times a year and not hurt you.

But, yeah, Edge James. Good lord.

Even King has a good handle on how Leonard might be used and that he has value.