What about going to 3-4 defense?

[luxm]

What do you guys think about going to a 3-4 eventually. My reasons for this are: 1. We are more stacked at linebacker than at the d-front with all four potential stars in Odell, Pollack, L. Johnson and Simmons, while we have only a handful of good down lineman. 2. It seems everyone says there is so much more confusion in the 3-4. You can hide more things and throw the quarterback off more. Recent examples are articles on Bengals.com (I think - sorry, not for sure) that have Peyton Manning saying he was confused at the Steelers set up sometimes in the playoff game. Colts offensive front obviously was confused. I don't mean to keep going on, but in general, it just seems like you can scheme more with the 3-4. Whuddya think?

[jrandom42]

What do you guys think about going to a 3-4 eventually. My reasons for this are: 1. We are more stacked at linebacker than at the d-front with all four potential stars in Odell, Pollack, L. Johnson and Simmons, while we have only a handful of good down lineman. 2. It seems everyone says there is so much more confusion in the 3-4. You can hide more things and throw the quarterback off more. Recent examples are articles on Bengals.com (I think - sorry, not for sure) that have Peyton Manning saying he was confused at the Steelers set up sometimes in the playoff game. Colts offensive front obviously was confused. I don't mean to keep going on, but in general, it just seems like you can scheme more with the 3-4. Whuddya think?

Not ever going to happen. Marvin has always coached a 4-3 defense as a coordinator, been very successful with it, and has shown no inclination to change that. He's already stated he doesn't like the 3-4, and more importantly, WHY he doesn't like it. Not going to happen as long as Marvin is Head Coach in Cincinnati.

[luxm]

What do you guys think about going to a 3-4 eventually. My reasons for this are: 1. We are more stacked at linebacker than at the d-front with all four potential stars in Odell, Pollack, L. Johnson and Simmons, while we have only a handful of good down lineman. 2. It seems everyone says there is so much more confusion in the 3-4. You can hide more things and throw the quarterback off more. Recent examples are articles on Bengals.com (I think - sorry, not for sure) that have Peyton Manning saying he was confused at the Steelers set up sometimes in the playoff game. Colts offensive front obviously was confused. I don't mean to keep going on, but in general, it just seems like you can scheme more with the 3-4. Whuddya think?

Not ever going to happen. Marvin has always coached a 4-3 defense as a coordinator, been very successful with it, and has shown no inclination to change that. He's already stated he doesn't like the 3-4, and more importantly, WHY he doesn't like it. Not going to happen as long as Marvin is Head Coach in Cincinnati.

I guess I missed that. What is his reason for not liking it? And, I thought they were 3-4 when he was def. co. in Pitts?

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Nose Tackles to run the 3-4 are hard to find. Hell, a defensive tackle seems to completely elude us for our 4/3.

Besides, we have 4 quality linebackers. That's not enough to run a 3-4. Not enough depth!

[DesperateDerelict]

Nose Tackles to run the 3-4 are hard to find. Hell, a defensive tackle seems to completely elude us for our 4/3.

Besides, we have 4 quality linebackers. That's not enough to run a 3-4. Not enough depth!

What he said!

[rwalling]

One of the (only) things I like about the Patriots is that they run a defense that at times looks 3-4 and at others looks 4-3. This confuses the hell out of O-line blocking assignments and you never know who's coming. I think with some of our DE/LB hybrids (Geathers, Pollack), we can have the same kind of feel.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

One of the (only) things I like about the Patriots is that they run a defense that at times looks 3-4 and at others looks 4-3. This confuses the hell out of O-line blocking assignments and you never know who's coming. I think with some of our DE/LB hybrids (Geathers, Pollack), we can have the same kind of feel.

I don't disagree, however, Geathers hasn't been trained at LB at all, so I'm not sure why you are calling him a hybrid. He's simply a rushing DE who was less effective as a full timer. At the same time, we lack a big nose tackle to line up next to our smaller "quick" tackle in the 4-3. The idea of lining one of our DTs up at nose tackle is absurd. Not only that, but finding a true nose tackle in the draft is extremely difficult. There just aren't that many.

[Spain]

Good point Walls, Marvin always said that in the Joker D he uses 3-4 alignments. This is the joker D. Dont fret Marvin just doesnt have it staffed now. Next year watch the difference. Marvin has already said that he wants another big goy like S Smith. With some that can hold the line the rest of them will be much better. Also remember Bresh will have his best player out there again. With the young guys like Keiwan and Odel and waterboy coming around this D is going to be awesome. I just our scouts know what they want. That is a Big D takle. Were picking to low to get one in the draft. So look at your free agents and pick. IMHO

[derekshank]

It looks like it has begun... The off-season on this board is littered with the bi-weekly thread about switching to the 3-4. Although I'm not totally against the idea... because it seems to work in some circumstances, it makes the rebuilding of this D much more extensive.

We would need to waste draft picks on LB's for depth, use a 1st round pick to get a fat-ass NT, and would then end up in pretty much the same position as last year... new guys, learning new assignments... an ineffective DE pass-rush because of not enough help from the middle of the D-Line, and because of using draft-picks on LB's... a really shallow safety pool, resulting in basically the same shabby defensive performance.

However, with Pollack having a year under his belt as a SSLB, he'll be comfortable, and as we saw the last few weeks, more apt to get a strongpass rush. An upgrade at one DT spot will take some pressue off Smith and Geathers (or if I get my wish, a 1st round DE)... and having Madieu back and a better SS (hopefully Marlon McCree, and a probably a couple CB/S draft picks as well for depth) will make our secondary one of the NFL's best... problem solved. No need for a scheme change in my opinion. It will take less work to fix the scheme we have.

[Kazkal]

seems like teams with a good 3-4 don't have the greatest secondarys either sure they'll have a star like troy but as a Unit DB's normally avg

One of the (only) things I like about the Patriots is that they run a defense that at times looks 3-4 and at others looks 4-3. This confuses the hell out of O-line blocking assignments and you never know who's coming. I think with some of our DE/LB hybrids (Geathers, Pollack), we can have the same kind of feel.

I don't disagree, however, Geathers hasn't been trained at LB at all, so I'm not sure why you are calling him a hybrid. He's simply a rushing DE who was less effective as a full timer. At the same time, we lack a big nose tackle to line up next to our smaller "quick" tackle in the 4-3. The idea of lining one of our DTs up at nose tackle is absurd. Not only that, but finding a true nose tackle in the draft is extremely difficult. There just aren't that many.

wasen't there a few plays last year when J.smith dropped back or atleast in practice though I woulden't want him doing it often sense he's our only solid D linemen

[Stripes]

I agree with everything that has already been said. With our current personnel on the defensive line, a 3-4 defense would likely be even worse. We all see how they get shoved around as they are... imagine taking one of them away. The extra linebacker would serve to make MORE tackles 5 yards down the field. No thanks. If we had that special nose tackle everyone has mentioned, then maybe we can talk. Marvin doesn't seem to want to talk about it either way. He is the guy we trust after all.

[ArmyBengal]

this D is going to be awesome

Same thing we hear every off season, only to see them get ran the F**K over again and again. Again this offseason, I will repeat what I've said EVERY offseason since being on this board, when they SHOW IT ON THE FIELD, then I'll be convinced. Until then, color me unimpressed... This is not saying that our D can't be awesome, I just think if the D-line and Safety positions aren't taken care of via FA or the draft, we will see this same comment again next offseason. GOD I HOPE NOT !!!

WHODEY !!!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Please trade Justin Smith.

this D is going to be awesome

Same thing we hear every off season, only to see them get ran the F**K over again and again. Again this offseason, I will repeat what I've said EVERY offseason since being on this board, when they SHOW IT ON THE FIELD, then I'll be convinced. Until then, color me unimpressed... This is not saying that our D can't be awesome, I just think if the D-line and Safety positions aren't taken care of via FA or the draft, we will see this same comment again next offseason. GOD I HOPE NOT !!!

WHODEY !!!

Amen Army. I really think some people are being a bit delusional about the defense here, and how bad it really is.

They gave up 31 points per game over the last 8 weeks (average). That's unacceptable to me. They were a laughing stock the entire 2nd half of the season and were woefully inconsistent. Just bringing Madeiu back won't turn the whole unit around.

You can't just keep the same players and keep doing the same things, and expect them to change.

Something Mike Brown took 15 years to figure out!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

C'mon guys, John Thornton would make a fine NT.

Wow, I couldn't even say that without throwing up.

[ArmyBengal]

Thank you Shula, Madieu WILL be a huge lift, but by NO MEANS will he be the savior of the defense. Last year was only his second year and he still has things to learn. Don't get me wrong, Madieu IS THE MAN, however, he is not the only thing missing from this D and if the team claims the D to be it's priority during the off season only to ignore it at draft time will cause me to F**KING EXPLODE !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Riagogogoindanati]

I AGREE.....JUSTIN SMITH HAS NOT LIVED UP TO HIS POTENTIAL........EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A DE IN COLLEGE AND IS STILL PLAYING THAT ROLL......I PERSONALLY THINK REINARD WILSON SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN THE DE ROLL EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A LITTLE SMALLER FOR THE NFL THAN HE SHOULD'VE BEEN IN THAT POSITION. TO HAVE MADE HIM A LB IN THE NFL CUT HIS CAREER SHORT AND HE COULDN'T LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE NFL AS A DE TURNED LB. WE ALL KNOW HE WAS A MAD MAN AT FSU. JUSTIN HASN'T PROVED MUCH (OTHER THAN A FEW AND FAR BETWEEN GOOD GAMES) AND I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER.

[TJJackson]

Hey Ria - how about typing in lower case?

I think you'll see some 3-4 mixed in next year, same as last, but the base defense will still be 4-3.

I'm iffy on Justin Smith -- to me, it really comes down to what his cap number is for 2006, and whether we can get a better defenive player (and not necessarily at DE) for a similar or lower number.

I've been told over and over again that he played well in 2004 and 2005. Sorry, I don't believe it, even after seeing his better than average sack and tackle totals for 2004 and 2005.

[jrandom42]

What do you guys think about going to a 3-4 eventually. My reasons for this are: 1. We are more stacked at linebacker than at the d-front with all four potential stars in Odell, Pollack, L. Johnson and Simmons, while we have only a handful of good down lineman. 2. It seems everyone says there is so much more confusion in the 3-4. You can hide more things and throw the quarterback off more. Recent examples are articles on Bengals.com (I think - sorry, not for sure) that have Peyton Manning saying he was confused at the Steelers set up sometimes in the playoff game. Colts offensive front obviously was confused. I don't mean to keep going on, but in general, it just seems like you can scheme more with the 3-4. Whuddya think?

Not ever going to happen. Marvin has always coached a 4-3 defense as a coordinator, been very successful with it, and has shown no inclination to change that. He's already stated he doesn't like the 3-4, and more importantly, WHY he doesn't like it. Not going to happen as long as Marvin is Head Coach in Cincinnati.

I guess I missed that. What is his reason for not liking it? And, I thought they were 3-4 when he was def. co. in Pitts?

He hates the matchups. For example, you have 250 lb Joey Porter attempting to pass rush 340 lb Willie Anderson. Joey may be fast enough to beat Willie with sheer speed and moves every now and then, but once Willie gets contact, Joey's out of the play. Same thing on running plays. If Willie is drive blocking, Joey doesn't stand a chance of holding his ground.

[bengalsLB]

for a 3-4 shuan smith could play NT but we would need a really Big ILB to take on blocks and let Thurman make plays and a couple of new DEs

[HoTbOy]

Im for using it some time, but not as a base D, on 3rd downs in a 3-4 Geathers can like up as the 4th backer or de to get more pass rush. JSmith is average, and if you want to get rid of Smith then tell Thorton good-bye too. What is up with Askew? I thought he would be ready to play by now.

[backerman]

Doesn't Marvil already employ that with the Joker?

I think using it on a partial basis is a good idea, but no full time.

Think about it, the best thing a 3-4 front does is confuse pass protection.

So I think Marvin has the right idea about incorporating it in obvious passing downs.

The Begals don't have the personnell to do if full time anyways and by being selective about when you do use it can keep you out of bad matchups.

[ArmyBengal]

This, like the "Our D is going to be great" comment happen every offseason. Once again, Marvin runs the 4-3... Now, he will throw in a mix of the 3-4 and try to confuse the opposing offense, but his base is a 4-3 and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Especially with the D-line we currently have...

WHODEY !!!

[NJ29]

ctually, we probably do have the people to do it on the D line. Quick D tackles generally make decent 3-4 ends, and Smith could be a decent nose guard. Pollack could be a OLB?Rush End, i.e. Joey Porter, and Simmons and Odell could play inside. That being said, I just don't think it's going to happen. We are starting to bring in better players, and moving to a three fourth starts a whole new transition phase.

[ArmyBengal]

ctually, we probably do have the people to do it on the D line. Quick D tackles generally make decent 3-4 ends, and Smith could be a decent nose guard. Pollack could be a OLB?Rush End, i.e. Joey Porter, and Simmons and Odell could play inside. That being said, I just don't think it's going to happen. We are starting to bring in better players, and moving to a three fourth starts a whole new transition phase.

I'll consider your opinion Rover, however, even with what you say is adequate, there is still one thing missing from the equation...... DEPTH !!!! There is no depth. Who's going to come in Naives ?? Askew ?? I'm just not sold AT ALL, especially with our lightassed individuals.

WHODEY !!!

[w8th]

Let's see.. it seems like our previous head coach ran a 3-4 and knew a little bit about it. What WAS his name?

Anyway Marvin has changed 9 out of 11 starters (if I'm counting correctly) to have the personnel to run a 4-3.

I think he is pretty close to having the people he needs to make the 4-3 work.

Do you REALLY want to revamp the personnel AGAIN to go to a 3-4??