HoosierCat Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 For the sake of argument...and ONLY for the sake of argument...assume Pamer's knee is well and totally scewed. Rehab is slow, goes badly, there's a reinjury, etc. But that by late April it is clear, at least to the braintrust at PBS, that he likely won't be back for the '06 season and may be done.So forget SS, DT, DE...it's back to the QB well in round 1. At the mid-20-something-th pick, one or both of these fellows should be around...http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.p...ey=Jay%20Cutlerhttp://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.p...=Omar%20Jacobs*Jacobs was on fire a year ago, he got a lot of pub as a sophomore. Seems folks have cooled on him a bit. Cutler I havent seen, but his description sounds rather Palmer-esque. As a pocket passer he seems the logical choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I mentioned drafting a rookie QB in the mid rounds prior to Palmers injury, and I'd still consider it. But if Palmer's injury is career threatening then my priorties have changed and I'd quickly target a FA veteran that can give this team two or three years service. Whether that player is already on the roster is a matter for debate, but there are simply too many offensive weapons on this team whose production would suffer from starting a rookie QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brew Man Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 They would be much better off grabbing a Schaub or Volek than wasting a first round pick on another QB. Not to mention Cutler is getting so much hype he will likely be gone by Cincys pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Put me in the Volek camp as well... Strong arm for the downfield threat this offense possesses. Just a thought as opposed to spending a 1st on a QB. Good God that last statement makes me want to go vomit. ...WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Well, all that assumes Volek isn't re-signed in Tennessee. But I certainly agree that the Bengals need to sign a vet QB (Kit, Volek, whoever), and that's whether Carson's rehab is going well or not.But that wasn't the question. Let me put it another way. You are gifted with perfect foresight on the issue of Palmer's knee. He's never coming back. Done, finished, kaput, just like Greg Cook. So no matter whether we sign a vet for temp duty, we need a new long-term solution. So who likes Cutler? Jacobs? I agree Cutler is getting lots of inflation from the draft hype machine right now. But Leinart and Young are still ahead.Even if Cutler is gone Jacobs is attractive and he very probably doesn't last to our second round pick.Or do you go D and hope you can find the next Tom Brady later on? If so, who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I'm not ready to even think about this scenario yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Well, all that assumes Volek isn't re-signed in Tennessee. But I certainly agree that the Bengals need to sign a vet QB (Kit, Volek, whoever), and that's whether Carson's rehab is going well or not.But that wasn't the question. Let me put it another way. You are gifted with perfect foresight on the issue of Palmer's knee. He's never coming back. Done, finished, kaput, just like Greg Cook. So no matter whether we sign a vet for temp duty, we need a new long-term solution. So who likes Cutler? Jacobs? I agree Cutler is getting lots of inflation from the draft hype machine right now. But Leinart and Young are still ahead.Even if Cutler is gone Jacobs is attractive and he very probably doesn't last to our second round pick.Or do you go D and hope you can find the next Tom Brady later on? If so, who? Thinking about it makes me sick, but I know nothing of Cutler or Jacobs (yet), so I'm not really sure. Right now, I'm still thinking we have to go defense as we have seen mediocre offenses make it to and win the Superbowl (Baltimore anyone)... Time will surely tell !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I mentioned drafting a rookie QB in the mid rounds prior to Palmers injury, and I'd still consider it. But if Palmer's injury is career threatening then my priorties have changed and I'd quickly target a FA veteran that can give this team two or three years service. Whether that player is already on the roster is a matter for debate, but there are simply too many offensive weapons on this team whose production would suffer from starting a rookie QB.Whether or not Carson's injury is career threatening won't be completely resolved until later in his rehab and the Bengals could probably land a cut QB into pre-season in that event if they don't re-sign Kitna. The downside in waiting would be that QB would have to jump right in. Of course, w/o Carson 2006 is more than an uphill climb any way.That mid-round QB basically looks like Krenzel to me. I really hope the Bengals don't burn a mid round pick for a QB or even a 6th or 7th really. Maybe a rookie free agent who get go the practice squad if Palmer is expected to be inactive at the start of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Whether or not Carson's injury is career threatening won't be completely resolved until later in his rehab and the Bengals could probably land a cut QB into pre-season in that event if they don't re-sign Kitna. The downside in waiting would be that QB would have to jump right in. Of course, w/o Carson 2006 is more than an uphill climb any way.That mid-round QB basically looks like Krenzel to me. I really hope the Bengals don't burn a mid round pick for a QB or even a 6th or 7th really. Maybe a rookie free agent who get go the practice squad if Palmer is expected to be inactive at the start of the season.Well, we have 104 days until the draft, so I suspect the team will be able to make some reasonable judgements as to Carson's ultimate disposition by then. If it looks like he's on schedule for that September/October return he's promising, then a QB, if it happens at all, won't happen until late.If it's looking more like November-December or 2007...which remains depressingly possible...then a QB at some point is, I think, inevitable. It's just a question of when. And I'm sorry but if a Culter or Jacobs is sitting there at 24 it gets hard to pass them by, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 If it's looking more like November-December or 2007...which remains depressingly possible...then a QB at some point is, I think, inevitable. It's just a question of when. And I'm sorry but if a Culter or Jacobs is sitting there at 24 it gets hard to pass them by, IMHO. I'd pass 'em by in a heartbeat. Seriously. There's no way I'd entrust this teams offense with a rookie QB that you know is going to struggle for...well, far longer than I'm willing to struggle. Instead, I'd target the best available veteran QB who can give me a couple of years service and look to groom a mid round QB pick who has the tools to develope. Besides, I doubt very much that the long term decision on Palmer's future can be made as quickly as this years draft. At best, or worst, they'll determine that he'll return too late to help them this season...pushing them towards the veteran option that I'm already leaning towards. But I doubt very much that anyone is going to be in a position to write off Palmer's chances for the following season or for the rest of his career for quite some time. Simply put, using a 1st round pick this coming draft on a replacement for Palmer is an example of dipping your toes far too deeply into the panic pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Anyone know if there were injury clauses in Palmers new contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 If it's looking more like November-December or 2007...which remains depressingly possible...then a QB at some point is, I think, inevitable. It's just a question of when. And I'm sorry but if a Culter or Jacobs is sitting there at 24 it gets hard to pass them by, IMHO. I'd pass 'em by in a heartbeat. Seriously. There's no way I'd entrust this teams offense with a rookie QB that you know is going to struggle for...well, far longer than I'm willing to struggle. Instead, I'd target the best available veteran QB who can give me a couple of years service and look to groom a mid round QB pick who has the tools to develope. Besides, I doubt very much that the long term decision on Palmer's future can be made as quickly as this years draft. At best, or worst, they'll determine that he'll return too late to help them this season...pushing them towards the veteran option that I'm already leaning towards. But I doubt very much that anyone is going to be in a position to write off Palmer's chances for the following season or for the rest of his career for quite some time. Simply put, using a 1st round pick this coming draft on a replacement for Palmer is an example of dipping your toes far too deeply into the panic pool.Looking for a FA QB who can give you a few years is a great idea, I agree...unfortunately it has a lousy track record, especially in Cincy. Bledsoe didn't do much for Buff, or more recently, Dallas; Kerry Collins in Oakland, Blake down in NO, Warner out in Arizona, etc. Heck, the crop of FA QBs is so unimpressive that Kitna is actually being touted as a top prospect and the Bengals are supposedly mulling a trade of their second for Atlanta's backup. The best we could hope foor IMHO would be another Kitna who can win a few games while either Carson heals up or the new guy sits and learns.As to what the Bengals might be able to divine three months from now about Carson's knee, you may be right. However, the chance remains that it simply doesn't repond or is responding far slower than normal -- and if it looks like he's done then it would be wisest to get a replacement in the works as fast as possible. I didn't say he had to start, go ahead and bring in your vet. But he should be prepared for a one year limit.The panic button? No more so than considering a trade of our No. 2 for Schwab, IMHO. And that seems a pretty popular idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 The panic button? No more so than considering a trade of our No. 2 for Schwab, IMHO. And that seems a pretty popular idea. Popularity is a tricky thing. I only watch 3 of the 20 most popular television shows, I usually can't stand the movies that most people stand in line to see, and most of the music that I buy is performed by artists that would be unrecognizable to most people. So let's assume for a moment that I don't care for the idea of trading a 2nd round pick for Schaub any more than I like the idea of using a 1st rounder for a rookie. Simply put, until more information is known Palmer is still very much my guy, and that opinion isn't likely to change until the worst case scenario has played out for a year or more. There's no way I project short term concerns into long term planning. All I'm interested in doing NOW in regards to the QB position is finding a player who can keep the seat warm for 4 games. And if you were to tell me that those 4 games might turn into 16...well, I'm still going to pick from the same pool of available players....starting with Kitna and Krenzel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 There's no way I project short term concerns into long term planning. All I'm interested in doing NOW in regards to the QB position is finding a player who can keep the seat warm for 4 games. And if you were to tell me that those 4 games might turn into 16...well, I'm still going to pick from the same pool of available players....starting with Kitna and Krenzel.Well, I would submit that you, in fact, are projecting short-term concerns into long-term planning, said short term concerns being that the O outside the QB position is ready to roll, therefore the emphasis should be on finding a vet of some talent who could take advantage of all those weapons before age and free agency take their toll. And that is by no means an unreasonable position; I might find myself advocating it six months from now.The question, tho, is (and again, this assumes Palmer is not looking good as April draws to a close) when do we plan for life beyond this vet QB, be it Kitna, Krenzel, Kerry Collins, Damon Huard, whoever? If a top-notch QB like Cutler is avaialble this year when our first rolls around, I still say that in that case he's hard to pass up. Especially in a draft where our main need, DT, is weak, and our secondary needs, safety and TE, are deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Well, I would submit that you, in fact, are projecting short-term concerns into long-term planning.... Well, you'd be wrong to do that. I'm not the one proposing a 1st round draft pick be used on a new QB. You're doing that. And I'm not proposing that a 2nd round pick be traded to Atlanta for Matt Schaub. Others are doing that. And clearly, both of those are expensive examples of projecting short-term concerns into long-term planning. On the other hand, I'm suggesting that the Bengals immediately target a band-aid. More specifically a short-term solution to a short-term problem that most definately doesn't involve important draft assets or expensive trades. In fact, before I consider making any move at all I'd first have to be convinced that a player already on the roster wasn't the short-term answer...including a 3rd string QB that I have very little faith in. Last, the most involved solution I'd consider now is signing a veteran backup QB who can provide important but relatively inexpensive service until Palmer's health can be better evaluated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'm not the one proposing a 1st round draft pick be used on a new QB. You're doing that.Nope, just recognizing the possibility if Carson's rehab goes poorly over the next three months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I say no QB till atleast 3rd rnd and thats only if we get comp picks(if anyone picks up Kdub or kitna) sense i'm sure will tag them both with that thing where we get a chance to match offers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 It'd be hard to lay off Jay Cutler at 24.He's a real pocket QB who's got nice feet in the pocket and got baptized by fire at Vandy where he had barebone protection and not much to throw to. He's got a lot of composure and next-level skill. Even if the Bengals re-sign Kitna, sooner or later they got to think about QB. Developing one as seemingly solid as Cutler might be worthwhile but I gotta still question burning a high pick much less a 1st rounder for a QB unless the prognosis for Palmer's rehab turns south in a hurry, which I doubt.Schaub is signed through 2006 according to the players association so I seriously doubt there's anything to the Bengals considering him or the Dirty Birds willing to start all over again with a back up who better be good and well ready to jump in at a moment's notice given the way Vick plays.I say roll with Palmer, Kitna, and Krenzel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Falcons will pick up mikes brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ29 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'm up for picking up a guy like Brad Smith or Reggie McNeal early in Day 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 It'd be hard to lay off Jay Cutler at 24.I hear ya. But it's probably a moot point, since it doesn't look like he'll last beyond the teens. (And if he does and Palmer's coming along, then your comments elsewhere are dead on: we will be inundated with trade offers.)Developing one as seemingly solid as Cutler might be worthwhile but I gotta still question burning a high pick much less a 1st rounder for a QB unless the prognosis for Palmer's rehab turns south in a hurry, which I doubt.Well, that's the $64K question. Personally, I don't expect it either...but in the last couple years we've seen both Warrick's and Webster's knees take far longer than expected to get back into any semblance of shape.I say roll with Palmer, Kitna, and Krenzel.I can live with Kit. Palmer, obviously, I want to see back. Krenzel? Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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