It's Marvin's Fault Thread

[chad85]

That will make them appreciate Marvin more!!!

Who Dey!!!!!!!!1

[jjakq27]

its cool cincy. listen you cannot hold someone accountable to 8-8 or just getting to the playoffs when you get there you need to step up and win which is what i expect. and yea im happy where we are just not satisfied.

I expect them to go all the way too, but not one of us has any control over it. I want them to step up too but I won't be surprised if they lose the first game. Things change after Jan 1.

I hope we are ready.

[HairOnFire]

Getting second-guessed comes with the territory when you are an NFL head coach. There's nothing sacreligious about questioning Lewis' calls. For my part, I've harummphed long and hard about his failure to improve the talent on the D. HairOnFire is upset with his defensive schemes. Countless posters, from chrish to bllybroome have slammed him for draft calls like Chris Perry. Schweinhart has knocked him for hanging onto Carl Powell; ShulaSteakhouse doesn't know why he bothers with Justin Smith. And on and on and on.

None of that means we think he sucks or ought to be fired or anything like that.

Exactly. For my part I've been barking pretty hard about the shift in defensive strategy because I felt trouble coming, but I'm almost glad it came when it did. I can't shake the feeling that this team was whistling past the graveyard...ignoring circumstances and the risks involved. But if a lackluster loss on your home turf to a miserable football team doesn't serve as a wakeup call for change then nothing will.

That said, I have plenty of faith in Marvin to make the needed changes just as soon as it's possible to make them.

That said, I do like the junglemans cry of "Why not now?" In fact, I think it's exactly the right question to ask even if I don't agree with him at all about what failure in this years playoffs might mean long term.

[EyeoftheTiger]

Marvin has worked wonders this this year and this season is all part

of the learning curve.This year the Bengals have been noticed and

that is great.If we can add 2/3 quality D players we can get even better.

[Spain]

The trurth is the truth, they out coached us I dont call that pesimsim I call that reality.

[Stripes]

I love how whenever anyone utters a single phrase of negativity regarding the Bengals, they get the pessimism lecture.

What is a Bengals message board for if not discussing everything Bengals, including their faults?

[AMC]

I like the way that Mike Brown put it when Marvin first got here.

Brown told him, "the good news is that we are giving you the keys to the city the bad news is that the vault is empty".

So let's see ...

In his first season Marvin took the team from 2 and 14 to a respectable 8 and 8, I would think that a gain of six wins pretty much speaks for itself.

In his second season Marvin was able to maintain the 8 and 8 record, in a year where many thought the team would actually take a step backwards, because of a first year QB and the loss of their pro-bowl RB.

In his third season Marvin has the team on top of the division and in the play-offs for the first time in 15 years.

Ahh, I think that I would say that so far Marvin Lewis has Done His Job and has Earned some Trust ...

At the beginning of this year I was looking for about 10-6 or maybe 11-5 and a wildcard spot, it is suppose to be a lot harder to go from 8-8 to 10-6 than say from 6-10 to 8-8.

The team has already matched that and in fact has one upped it by winning the division but as JoiseyCat has already pointed out, the team is still not where we want it to be yet.

Marvin Lewis isn't done with his rebuild, there is still work to be done, the team still needs to get better, in particularly on defense.

But that doesn't mean that anyone is satisfied with just making the play-offs, especially not Marvin Lewis.

Maybe you didn't notice but he was the one holding down the celerbration over winning the division and was the one who was reminding everyone else that it was just one step toward the goal.

That sure sounds like the mind-set of the kind of a coach that is capable of getting his team a SuperBowl to me.

I don't know how far we will get this year and I am going to just take it one game at a time just like I did for the regular season.

My Hope is that we have a Great Play-Off Run, Get Hot, Have Everything go Right for Us and that we go Deep in and maybe even Win it All.

But I am not going to be too disappointed if things don't go that well for us this year because Marvin Lewis will continue his rebuild of the team over this off-season.

And the Bengals will be even Better next year ...

What would Really Rock is if we are here next year talking about Winning Back to Back SuperBowls !

JPW, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!!!!

It took 15 years to get the Bengals into a Sh%#-state of a 2-14 team and Marvin has turned around the team AND THE CITY in 1/5th the time!!!!!!!!!!!!

For that I say he still wears the Superman cape.

Every time people get spoiled on the tastes of the forbidden fruit that is 11-4 I think about those 15 years. 11-4 with one slip up???? So much better than 2-14 with 14 slip ups!!!!!!!!!!

Reality Check!

Oh and remember it's HARD to win in the NFL let alone make the playoffs....

Every team has faults, but not every team is 11-4!

[Kirkendall]

listen you cannot hold someone accountable to 8-8 or just getting to the playoffs when you get there you need to step up and win which is what i expect. and yea im happy where we are just not satisfied.

Well hell, why didn't you say that? That's something we all can agree with...

[walzav29]

I'm don't care is this thread is a joke or not. Marvin has done an unbelievable job in turning this pathetic team around. I will never forget the bad old days and I don't even care if the Bengals lose in the 1st round (I'll cry like a baby). I will let Marvin completely build this team. This team is young, 20 million under the cap. All they need is a DT,DE,and a TE. Compare that with when he got here and you'd have to be impressed. I say give him a ten year extension. The Bengals will win a SuperBowl. It would be great if it was this year, but they do need to mature and keep up the intensity. A letdown was probable. They won the division and are hosting a playoff game. I'll roll with Marv anyday.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

jungleman, while i do appreciate the kind of attitude that i like to see from a bengals fan, i don't understand how you can question marvin.

The same way Giants fans have questioned Coughlin (believe me, I'm up here, it's a daily occurance). Or Steelers fans question Cowher (check firecoachcowher.com). Or Jags fan question Del Rio. Shoot, how much crap has Tice taken, and the Vikes were in it until last night.

Getting second-guessed comes with the territory when you are an NFL head coach. There's nothing sacreligious about questioning Lewis' calls. For my part, I've harummphed long and hard about his failure to improve the talent on the D. HairOnFire is upset with his defensive schemes. Countless posters, from chrish to bllybroome have slammed him for draft calls like Chris Perry. Schweinhart has knocked him for hanging onto Carl Powell; ShulaSteakhouse doesn't know why he bothers with Justin Smith. And on and on and on.

None of that means we think he sucks or ought to be fired or anything like that. Heaven knows he's the best coach we've had in ages. But despite the nickname, he's not Jesus. He's just a man. I think he's done a damn good job...but again, the question, "could he have done better" is one that comes wiith the territory.

Yep, well said.

Let me add that I question the release of Myles and not playing KW more after last week also, just examples of why I don't just blindly accept every decision he makes, from a fan's perspective.

Just little things - and JC's right - it comes with the territory.

I think people are being foolish to have blind faith in a football coach - Marvin has by no means reached that point yet, that only a few (Lombardi, Landry, Belichick, Walsh etc..,) have earned.

Marv has his first winning season under his belt - major kudos and a great start after two .500 seasons.

He's made great progress and is deserving of much praise and confidence over-all.

But let's see if he can take the next step and produce a consistently competitive, winning team, and if he can get to the SB some day. Only then will I even start considering the "In Marvin We Trust" nonsense.

[cincy9275]

i am very impressed with what marvin has done . i went through all 15 years with no playoffs . walzav29 i totally agree .

[Kirkendall]

I'm not worried about Marvin's want, desire, or ability to get to the next level. And I sure as hell don't think anyone has blind faith; we have evidence

How many players are going to the pro-bowl? How games have we won on the road? How many records were broken? I don't care who the head coach is or the team he's on, that's damned impressive anywhere. And earning a playoff spot in the AFC is difficult in the first place and we’re the third best?!!

Marvin is rivaling coach of the year honors and most likely would have won it.

And to say we're either satisfied or not satisfied is a little ridiculous. Every person in that locker room KNOWS there's more to do. Every person in the locker room KNOWS winning the AFC North crown isn't the be-all goal. Everyone, including the coaching staff, WANTS to win it all and NO ONE has signaled to anyone they don't want to do more nor has anyone said they are satisfied now.

And yes, if you question him now, then you question his accomplishments of his past. Because he's given no one any reason to question his ability to improve this team...

[HoosierCat]

And yes, if you question him now, then you question his accomplishments of his past. Because he's given no one any reason to question his ability to improve this team...

Perhaps not...but let's not overstate his accomplishments, either. The Bengals offense, for instance, is largely a product of the pre-Marvin era. Rudi, Chad, TJ, Levi, Willie, Braham, Kitna and Schobel were all picked up by previous administrations. Brat and his offensive sheme was a LeBeau hire. Even the Palmer selection owes as much to Dick's horrid last year, which gave Marvin the first pick, as to any particular insight on Lewis' part. It didn't take a genius to snag Steinbach at the top of the second that year, either. The Lewis era's subsequent contributions to the offensive side of the ball have been mixed: Bobby Williams is looking like a good pickup; Chris Perry, well, let's not go there; and Chris Henry, whose recent dope bust puts a question mark next to his name.

In short, we're 11-4 right now primarily because of an offense that's at least as much -- if not more -- a product of Coslet and LeBeau as Marvin Lewis.

On the defensive side of the ball, Marvin Lewis has been far more active, going through two DCs in 3 years, and overseeing massive personnel changes. But though laboring mightily, Marvin has yet to bring forth more than the proverbial mouse. The D stank in his first year, it stank last year, and it still stinks this season. Now, that situation isn't without its caveats. Among other notes, in both this year and last, the Bengals have had a legitimate candidate for defensive rookie of the year (Madieu last season, Odell this time). That bodes well for the future. As does a winning record this year, which will help in attracting serious interest from top-tier free agents, something that's bedeviled Lewis' attempts to upgrade the D.

Marvin is certainly to be commended for changing the club's attitude, for changing its image, for not being afraid to dump vets and stars who either weren't performing or didn't want to be here. He's the first coach we've had in years with anything resembling a plan, and who's been able to sell the players on it. I'm glad he's here and I wouldn't want to see him go any time soon. But work remains to be done.

[Kirkendall]

Maybe. But Coslet/LeBeau's product was nothing more than a piss poor group of ingredients. If you don't know how to cook the food with knowing what goes where, then you won't have a very good product -- that's where our boy stepped in..

I absolutely agree the ingredients were already here, but the product was piss poor before Marvin got here.

As for the defense... yea, I can see your point. But I think there's too much youth and key injuries that's created this belief. I really think if you give this defense some time, with the front-seven gaining experience within the core draft Marvin guys, that things will change.

[HoosierCat]

As for the defense... yea, I can see your point. But I think there's too much youth and key injuries that's created this belief. I really think if you give this defense some time, with the front-seven gaining experience within the core draft Marvin guys, that things will change.

Oh, I agree. I think that, barring injury and with one more good draft (and perhaps a FA or two), the defense has an excellent chance of taking a big leap forward next season. I certainly believe that if it doesn't, Marvin will come under some serious fire, fire that'll make this thread look downright friendly!

[Kirkendall]

On that, let's have a beer and chant who-dey until we either pass out or sing on table tops to the tunes of hobbit songs. (I dunno) -- but here's the beer..

[HoosierCat]

Funny, I just cracked one five minutes ago...

[Kirkendall]

I take it you got off this week..

[Whur CHad At?]

MARVIN= COACH OF DECADE/NEXT VINCE LOMBARDI

[HoosierCat]

I take it you got off this week..

Yeah, they shut down the office through the second (tho you had to pony up 2 vcation days to get the whole week off)...I'm still checking email and puttering at various projects but it's pretty much "Christmas break" time for me. Woo-hoo!

[membengal]

Joisey, you cannot seriously be suggesting that ML and staff have just built on the good work done by predecessors in terms of building this team. Part of ML's phenomenal work as coach/grand poobah is that he has actually helped talented people reach their potential. For too many of the lost years, the Bengals did everything they could, it seemed, to keep players from getting to their potential. So, yes, there was a nice little core of talent when ML got here, but it's not like that talent had done much flourishing. I give all of CJ's and TJ's success to the coaching they have received since 2003, for instance.

Look, ML has been magnificent as a coach here. But I laugh whenever certain parties respond to every loss as if it were the end of the world. No one is perfect in the NFL, certainly not since we have gone to a 16 game season. Teams lose games all the time to teams they should beat. Matter of fact, far too many Bengals fans were not realizing what good work ML had done up until last week getting the Bengals to take care of business and win every such one of those games. Instead, we only got crying about how they had not beaten anyone.

No matter how this plays out this year, I am content. They have made marvelous strides. Playoff streak, losing seasons streak, division drought, all gone. Might even win a playoff game. Stink of grossness gone, free agents will be making this a must stop this off-season. Might even sign one of two of them. Got another draft, and time to re-trench. The future is quite bright. Losing is a part of the game. People in general need to relax.

And, who dey.

[HoosierCat]

Joisey, you cannot seriously be suggesting that ML and staff have just built on the good work done by predecessors in terms of building this team. Part of ML's phenomenal work as coach/grand poobah is that he has actually helped talented people reach their potential. For too many of the lost years, the Bengals did everything they could, it seemed, to keep players from getting to their potential. So, yes, there was a nice little core of talent when ML got here, but it's not like that talent had done much flourishing. I give all of CJ's and TJ's success to the coaching they have received since 2003, for instance.

Well, you're welcome to bestow your props where you will, of course. But the fact remains that TJ's production doubled from '01 to '02, before Marvin got here. Chad went from 300 to more than 1,000 yards...before Marvin got here. Schobel's best year was '03...but '04 and '05 have been worse than '02. The bookends...Willie and Levi...were here when Marvin walked in the door. Even in the dark depths of 2002, the O still ranked 17th in the NFL.

Perhaps Marvin's biggest advantage coming in was Jon Kitna who, not being a dummy, had in '02 concentrated on developing a rapor with emerging superstar Chad Johnson; that gave him every new head coach's dream: a year to groom a promising rookie QB.

No, the Bengals never did do a good job of developing players throughout the Nineties. But there was no doubting they had a lot to offer Marvin Lewis offensively. Has he done well with what he was given? Of course. But there's no reason to suspect that Mularkey or Coughlin would have done any worse had they got the job.

Look, ML has been magnificent as a coach here. But I laugh whenever certain parties respond to every loss as if it were the end of the world.

So do I. My comments were directed at kirk's note that questioning Marvin involves questioning his entire record, not just a game.

No matter how this plays out this year, I am content. They have made marvelous strides. Playoff streak, losing seasons streak, division drought, all gone. Might even win a playoff game. Stink of grossness gone, free agents will be making this a must stop this off-season. Might even sign one of two of them. Got another draft, and time to re-trench.

I agree...and that's why I think that 2006 will be a crucial season for Lewis (assuming, of course, we don't bring home the Lombardi this year!). He had the pieces in place for a great O; his attempt to assemble a great D has proceeded in fits and starts with lots of promise, but little success, so far. I think next season will bring good things on D...but if it doesn't, watch out!

[Kirkendall]

I take it you got off this week..

Yeah, they shut down the office through the second (tho you had to pony up 2 vcation days to get the whole week off)...I'm still checking email and puttering at various projects but it's pretty much "Christmas break" time for me. Woo-hoo!

[redsfan2]

Joisey, you cannot seriously be suggesting that ML and staff have just built on the good work done by predecessors in terms of building this team. Part of ML's phenomenal work as coach/grand poobah is that he has actually helped talented people reach their potential. For too many of the lost years, the Bengals did everything they could, it seemed, to keep players from getting to their potential. So, yes, there was a nice little core of talent when ML got here, but it's not like that talent had done much flourishing. I give all of CJ's and TJ's success to the coaching they have received since 2003, for instance.

Well, you're welcome to bestow your props where you will, of course. But the fact remains that TJ's production doubled from '01 to '02, before Marvin got here. Chad went from 300 to more than 1,000 yards...before Marvin got here. Schobel's best year was '03...but '04 and '05 have been worse than '02. The bookends...Willie and Levi...were here when Marvin walked in the door. Even in the dark depths of 2002, the O still ranked 17th in the NFL.

Perhaps Marvin's biggest advantage coming in was Jon Kitna who, not being a dummy, had in '02 concentrated on developing a rapor with emerging superstar Chad Johnson; that gave him every new head coach's dream: a year to groom a promising rookie QB.

No, the Bengals never did do a good job of developing players throughout the Nineties. But there was no doubting they had a lot to offer Marvin Lewis offensively. Has he done well with what he was given? Of course. But there's no reason to suspect that Mularkey or Coughlin would have done any worse had they got the job.

Look, ML has been magnificent as a coach here. But I laugh whenever certain parties respond to every loss as if it were the end of the world.

So do I. My comments were directed at kirk's note that questioning Marvin involves questioning his entire record, not just a game.

No matter how this plays out this year, I am content. They have made marvelous strides. Playoff streak, losing seasons streak, division drought, all gone. Might even win a playoff game. Stink of grossness gone, free agents will be making this a must stop this off-season. Might even sign one of two of them. Got another draft, and time to re-trench.

I agree...and that's why I think that 2006 will be a crucial season for Lewis (assuming, of course, we don't bring home the Lombardi this year!). He had the pieces in place for a great O; his attempt to assemble a great D has proceeded in fits and starts with lots of promise, but little success, so far. I think next season will bring good things on D...but if it doesn't, watch out!

Catching up on a few posts.

Have to agree that questioning a few of the coachs' calls isn't heresy. Imho ... it's opinion and that's all.

As to the team Joisey .... you're right. the coach did inherit a some good players from the previous regime. Again ... in my opinion .... that only proves how badly we needed not only a good head coach, but good coaches at most of the other positions as well. After all ..... the former coach had the same guys and could win only 2 games with them. Coach Lewis comes in ... and in his first year wins 8. That has to tell you something.

on to the play offs