Patdown Searches at PBS. Are these people idiots or simply nieve?

[BengalszoneBilly]

From the Enquirer:

Bengals' pat-downs remain in limbo - Prosecutor studies law on NFL edict

By Kimball Perry - Enquirer staff writer

Government and National Football League officials will meet to discuss the legality of a proposed pat-down of fans entering Cincinnati Bengals home games, while one attorney who already has beaten the Bengals in court on separate matters is mulling a lawsuit over the issue.

The Bengals, trying to adhere to an NFL security policy, announced last week they were going to pat down people on the upper body as they entered Paul Brown Stadium. The stadium is owned by Hamilton County.

Uh...excuse me you a**h***s, but didn't you just tell whoever you might have wanted to catch bringing in a bomb, precisely where NOT TO HIDE THE F**KING BOMB IF THEY WERE IN FACT GOING TO BRING ONE IN!?!

I can hear the terrorists now. "Hey Achmed! Put the bomb in your pants. In the front groin area is a good spot!"

This quote says it all for me:

"Where it has been done, it has been done for the safety of the fans and nothing else," Dornette said.

That doesn't mean it's legal, Portune said.

[BengalsOwn]

You don't think they would have figured it out, after nearly every other team in the NFL did the same thing last week?

[smith288]

Is the players getting patted down??

[HoosierCat]

A couple thoughts:

1. First, if you want to make the pat downs effective, have them done by hot, scantily-clad babes. Apparently, having a female interagator get naked and touch prisoners is one of the forms of "torture" being practiced at Gitmo so the prospect of having to be felt up by a hot babe should give potential Muslim fundamantalist bombers the willies. Plus it ought to completely eliminate any complants whatsoever from the great mass of male bengals fans.

2. So this means a potential suicide bomber can't get his bomb into the game. BFD. Omar bin Bangbang can still load his trunk with explosives, drive into the parking lot and up to the biggest collection of tailgaters around, and push the button. And there are any number of places I can think of where large crowds can be found (shopping malls, etc) and there are no pat downs. In short, I don't see much point to the whole thing.

[jjakq27]

I heard a big part of it was because people are bringing beer into the games also.

[Lita]

But you guys would yell at the people in charge if a bomb did go off and nobody was being pat down...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

A couple thoughts:

1. First, if you want to make the pat downs effective, have them done by hot, scantily-clad babes. Apparently, having a female interagator get naked and touch prisoners is one of the forms of "torture" being practiced at Gitmo so the prospect of having to be felt up by a hot babe should give potential Muslim fundamantalist bombers the willies. Plus it ought to completely eliminate any complants whatsoever from the great mass of male bengals fans.

2. So this means a potential suicide bomber can't get his bomb into the game. BFD. Omar bin Bangbang can still load his trunk with explosives, drive into the parking lot and up to the biggest collection of tailgaters around, and push the button. And there are any number of places I can think of where large crowds can be found (shopping malls, etc) and there are no pat downs. In short, I don't see much point to the whole thing.

I agree, and it is utterly idiotic to do this. What is so hard about investing in some metal detectors or bomb sniffing dogs? Pat downs are demeaning and humiliating, and unnecessary.

[bengalboomer7]

This is where the hippie in me comes into play. Isn't this illegial search and seizure. I understand the safety issues and really dont have a problem with the whole pat down thing, but doesn't this kind of violate my constitutional rights

[Stripes]

Early on, this new process may be a bit overboard, because those employed by Paul Brown Stadium will be watched to make sure they do a thorough job. After a few weeks pass, I am sure they will all be lazy about it. A couple swats at the waist, and it will be over. I'm not complaining though, this isn't really a big deal.

Pat me down, I have no bomb.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Is the players getting patted down??

Even though on Detroits Injured Reserve players list, Lions backup QB Jeff Garcia is requesting that he receive a "Hard and Deep" cavity search before entrance to any game, as well as any others he might need during the game if security officials might think it may be required because he appears to be acting "Antsy-In-The-Pantsy" at any given time.

[Jonboat]

A couple thoughts:

1. First, if you want to make the pat downs effective, have them done by hot, scantily-clad babes. Apparently, having a female interagator get naked and touch prisoners is one of the forms of "torture" being practiced at Gitmo so the prospect of having to be felt up by a hot babe should give potential Muslim fundamantalist bombers the willies. Plus it ought to completely eliminate any complants whatsoever from the great mass of male bengals fans.

2. So this means a potential suicide bomber can't get his bomb into the game. BFD. Omar bin Bangbang can still load his trunk with explosives, drive into the parking lot and up to the biggest collection of tailgaters around, and push the button. And there are any number of places I can think of where large crowds can be found (shopping malls, etc) and there are no pat downs. In short, I don't see much point to the whole thing.

Is the NCAA doing it also ? I think their stadiums hold what like 100,000 ?

How bout the Babe in Billybroomes post she can pat me down anyday !

[Kirkendall]

In the history of the NFL, there's never been a gun found in a stadium during an event. If this were security, it would have been done after 9/11 and continued (four years after is now).

If we're worried about a bomb, how about examining the cars in the garage with mirrors to see if something is underneth -- not patting down some 50-60 year old.

This is about the NFL making sure you buy beer and everything else you need inside the stadium.

And it's not like Cincy is taking a stand for privacy. They just don't want taxpayer money being used for the searches (being conducted by a private company).

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

This is where the hippie in me comes into play. Isn't this illegial search and seizure. I understand the safety issues and really dont have a problem with the whole pat down thing, but doesn't this kind of violate my constitutional rights

Nope. It's being done by a private organization, not the gov, so the Constitution doesn't play. Second, you have the right not to go, so even if the gov was doing it, it probably wouldn't matter.

Whether it makes sense is another matter, but it's not unconstitutional.

[bengalboomer7]

In any situation though, a search can't be performed without reasonalbe cause, what's the cause?

[Stripes]

In any situation though, a search can't be performed without reasonalbe cause, what's the cause?

Terrorist threats, as we have been told at least. That "cause" has pretty much killed our basic rights to no illegal search and seizure.

If the government's plans with such regulations are sincere, then I'll back 'em all the way... Somehow, that doesn't seem to be the case, however.

[Kirkendall]

In any situation though, a search can't be performed without reasonalbe cause, what's the cause?

When you bring a bag in, don't you think they (the team) have the right to search it? Considering it (whatever it may be) would affect many more people than you.

And you're misunderstanding. You don't have to be patted down -- and you don't have to enter the gates either.... you do so as a willing participant. If you're unwilling, you don't enter.

If you don't like it, take it up with Paul Tagliabue (sp)..

[bengalboomer7]

Man Kirk, short fuse today? or did I take it wrong. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just stating that by law, you cant be searched without probable cause. Now, if the bengals privately fund the security, it should be perfectly legal, but if it becomes a county issue(paid for by the county, and using county employees), I think it violates a person's rights

[Kirkendall]

Is the players getting patted down??

The players deal with their own security protocol.

Man Kirk, short fuse today? or did I take it wrong. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just stating that by law, you cant be searched without probable cause. Now, if the bengals privately fund the security, it should be perfectly legal, but if it becomes a county issue(paid for by the county, and using county employees), I think it violates a person's rights

You totally took it wrong. Now if I had caps lock on, uh-oh.

And that's the point you made as to why it was stopped for now. The city (Pros. Joe Deters) doesn't want tax payer money provided to a private company to conduct the searches. If the NFL mandates this procedure, the NFL (with their gobs of money from TV contracts) can afford to finance it.

As for the law, in terms of actual text, you are right. The text of the 4th doesn't say anything about being a government official and specifically states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons" is a meaning of privacy; at least that's my assumption.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

In any situation though, a search can't be performed without reasonalbe cause, what's the cause?

That's why Cincinnati wasn't able to do it at the NFL's request. You see, the city owns the stadium and thus it would be the government patting you down, which they can't do legally. However, any business owner can require such things, or simply not let you into their private establishment.

[bengalboomer7]

That's cool, I knew you 've had a lot on your plate lately, so ya never know It's funny how the NFL is. How they can throw this in on ya, say it's for safety, and its to keep guys from Not buying beer there(Can't blame them either, two beers cost me 12.50 on Sunday ) i brought this up in another topic and even though it's off topic, I'll bring it up here.

Isn't it funny(not really) how the NFl will fine Jake Plummer for trying to honor Pat Tillman with a decal, then you see "Futbol Americana" on every helmet this week. I was some conspiracy site saying that they are prepping for advertising on the helmets(like the logo of whoever's broadcasting the game) that's why they used the green background. Like the little green screen they use for graphics on movies.

[BengalszoneBilly]

How bout the Babe in Billybroomes post she can pat me down anyday !

I think if anyone is to be "patted down above the waist," it's HER! If anyone on earth were to try and sneak in a couple of thermonuclear warheads in under their shirt thinking they could get away with it, it'my little sweetie below!

[walshfan]

Im thinking about when its like 10 degrees out there with the wind howling and people have big overcoats or whatever on and the line is moving ever so slowly...you'll have to get there earlier.. sounds like a complete hassle to me.. Ill watch them on the tube...

[Stripes]

Im thinking about when its like 10 degrees out there with the wind howling and people have big overcoats or whatever on and the line is moving ever so slowly...you'll have to get there earlier.. sounds like a complete hassle to me.. Ill watch them on the tube...

That is the sort of situation where I don't think any security measures will go as planned. The employees at the gates will not want to thoroughly check every single freaking person trying to get into the stadium. Those responsible for making sure these employees do a good job will also be infected by the lazy bug.

I doubt this lasts even two seasons.

[Kirkendall]

Isn't it funny(not really) how the NFl will fine Jake Plummer for trying to honor Pat Tillman with a decal, then you see "Futbol Americana" on every helmet this week. I was some conspiracy site saying that they are prepping for advertising on the helmets(like the logo of whoever's broadcasting the game) that's why they used the green background. Like the little green screen they use for graphics on movies.

I don't think that's conspiracy. I think that's inevitable. Too some extent, you already see it with athletic gear (which makes sense), and you see it on the backboards of NBA and MLB games (the rolling signs in the background).

And you have to think about it for a second, would advertising benefit or hurt the NFL? Bring more advertising dollars and increase salary cap rates, promote market competition enabling smaller market teams a little more of the pie, if divided in that manner -- and provided the NFL continues to promote parity.

Would it hurt? Sure it would. It's an image thing. Do you want Big Bob's Used Carpet on the left shoulder of each player on the team? No. Do you want introduce a completely new entity, worrying about sponsors/advertisers having too much influence on the team's philosophy; then again, teams like Arizona and San Francisco would be forced to put a good product on the field with sponsor/advertiser considerations.

OK, I went on a tangent, I'm finished.

[Jet23]

In any situation though, a search can't be performed without reasonalbe cause, what's the cause?

The cause is, you may be guilty of denying the NFL the right to charge you $6.50 for a flippin beer. Not only are you guilty, you are also innocent of not being guilty...