Let's talk about the play.....

[jjakq27]

At first glance I thought it was a fumble. I thought Carr whiffed on the throw. Then after 100 replays I thought it was a pass. Then I watched it again and it looked like Carr did not have a grip on the ball when he began to throw it, therefore I think it was a fumble.

However, if it was ruled a pass, they would have to call a penalty for an ineligble receiver. It hit one of the O-linemen before it hit the ground. Maybe someone can clarify the circumstances for such a call.

[Stripes]

This is a picture of the play (all credit for this goes to Andybren). The ball is not yet moving foward, but the ball is loose and slipping in his grasp.

[bengalboomer7]

It's closer to call than all the Texans fans think. Personally, his arm I think was definitely going forward. I didn't see whether he bobbled it or not. Here's my take. It could have gone either way and whichever way it would have went it probably would have been an inconclusive replay and the call on the field would have stood.

With that said....it's nicer to see those kinds of calls starting to go our way. Good teams get the calls, it just happens. If I had a nickel for all the calls the Pats got the last couple of years I'd be a rich man(Not really, I'd probably spend the extra cash flow on booze, and just be a drunker man or a happy man, because of the drunkedness of course )

[redsbengalsbucks]

I thought that Smith hit his arm before it started going foward, so it was ruled a fumble because any action that followed was influenced by the hit.

Just glad that the call went the Bengals way it seemed all day that they were playing against the refs as much as the Texans.

[BlainThePain]

That ball was sideways when it came out too. Either way, it was too close to overturn the original call on the field no matter what it was.

[BuckeyeDan]

By rule, his hand had to be EMPTY when his arm went forward for it to be considered a fumble.

Even according to the posted picture, his hand wasn't empty !!

[redsfan2]

I hate being a stick in the mud here ....... but who gives a rats ass ???

The ref said " It's a fumble " Texans say " Boo .. we don't like the call " Refs look at it again and say " Yep. That's a fumble."

As someone else here is fond of saying ........... Case Closed!

I don't think there has been a complete game in the NFL so far this season that hasn't had one controversial call that benefitted the other guys team. We've dam sure had them go against us ......... this one happened to go in our favor that's all.

As far as costing them the game ..... now that's kind of hard to say for sure isn't it ?? If nothing else, it's being dam optimistic that they were about to do something they hadn't done all day. Games aren't won or lost on one play ........... that's an excuse used by players that don't win. *

* If you take exception to that last sentence, then please e mail Marvin Lewis ...... I got it from him

ON TO 5 AND 0

[buck3y3d]

This was definately a pass. First of all, in the above picture, his arm is going forward. No QB can begin his motion in that position. Secondly, the ball was still attatched to his hand, no matter what grip he used, and when the motion began. This play should have been overturned. I think the call makes the game suspect, when the Bengals probably would have held them.

BTW, no penalty for ineligble reciever would have been called because J Smith touched the ball (I think)

[Stripes]

This was definately a pass. First of all, in the above picture, his arm is going forward. No QB can begin his motion in that position. Secondly, the ball was still attatched to his hand, no matter what grip he used, and when the motion began. This play should have been overturned. I think the call makes the game suspect, when the Bengals probably would have held them.

BTW, no penalty for ineligble reciever would have been called because J Smith touched the ball (I think)

I don't think he had even begun his throwing motion in this picture. I think his arm shifted into that postion just by the impact of Justin Smith's swat at the ball, and that knocked it slightly loose as shown. not until after the above picture occurred did the actual throwing attempt occur, with the ball already sliping out.

[WhoDey42]

When I first looked at that picture I thought it was when his arm was on its way back before the pass. Is that right? or is that of his arm going forward? Either way, it was reviewed, the play stood...its over. The announcers replayed it over and over and over again. There were still showing it 5 minutes after it happened (they showed it almost as much as they showed the Houston offensive corrdinator) We get the idea! Houston still got the ball back with 1:10 with a chance to win it... and they made a lot of mistakes and didn't get it done. Case closed...we won...4-0!

It was ugly, but like they were saying on ESPN, sometimes its just as hard to win a game that you should win as it is to win an upset. Hopefully after that game the team will realize they cant take anyone lightly.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

If it were a pass they would've marked it off for illegal touching a forward pass on the Hou lineman and the Texans would've lost the down any ways, and I believe it would've been 3rd and long as a result.

He lost control of the ball before his arm was in it's forward motion and he just pushed the ball while it was in the air...making it look like he was still throwing it.

Call could've gone either way but it was suprising it was called a fumble twice.

Obviously there's some detail about that particular call we are not aware of, dunno.

[HoosierCat]

It could have gone either way and whichever way it would have went it probably would have been an inconclusive replay and the call on the field would have stood.

Yup.

[JungleFanatic]

I hate being a stick in the mud here ....... but who gives a rats ass ???

The ref said " It's a fumble " Texans say " Boo .. we don't like the call " Refs look at it again and say " Yep. That's a fumble."

Seems cut n dry to me,I thought it was a fumble from the 1st replay,look at the whole series of events,he was trying to shot-put the football.TBH I'm a bengal homer and had it been against Carson I might feel the same way the Texan fans do...but just as with them,my(or anyone elses)opinion really doesn't matter,except for the referee's.

As has already been said popular teams tend to get these kinds of calls,and by god we're popular,they like us,they really like us

[ArmyBengal]

Everytime I see the replay, I change my mind. With that in mind, who give a s**t, we are 4-0. If you have an issue with one play in a game, maybe they should have made more plays besides that ONE. Bengals win and the focus needs to shift to beating the Jaguars. Nothing else to be said...

WHODEY !!!

[jjakq27]

I watched it again last night. The ball hit #69 for the Texans in the back. Unless there is some rule about being inside the tackles, like there is with intentional grounding, that should be a penalty and loss of down.

Either way, we won and we are 4 and 0.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

It's too hard to tell if he actually had a grip on the ball when his arm started moving forward after it was smacked hard by Justin Smith. It was ruled a fumble on the field, and after the play was reviewed, the evidence was questionable. Did it look like it MIGHT be that his arm was moving forward and he had a grip on the ball? Yes, it certainly did. But it wasn't good enough to make the call because it also appeared that he wasn't trying to throw a pass but trying to get his arm out of the grasp of the defender and lost the ball. It just wasn't clear enough to overturn the play.

[walzav29]

Who gives a crap. That will provide as mush satisfaction as wondering how Billups dropped that interception, or why on the goal line in 82 didn't they have Ken Anderson do a play action roll out run for a TD.

[belmontbengal]

I personally feel like the refs were terrible for the majority of the day. (what's new?)

Either way, to continue the trend. WHO CARES!?

4-0!

WHO DEY!

[BengalszoneBilly]

What I'd like to know is why does Houstons #71 have his hand after Smiths ASS!?!

[San Antonio Bengal]

According to the rules of the game, in the case of an instant replay there needs to be conclusive evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. This thread is proof of the inconclusiveness of the play. Maybe the ref was wrong, but maybe the ref was right. The call was a fumble and with the inconclusive replay it wasn't overturned. That's how it goes sometimes in this game.

[jjakq27]

Who gives a crap. That will provide as mush satisfaction as wondering how Billups dropped that interception, or why on the goal line in 82 didn't they have Ken Anderson do a play action roll out run for a TD.

Hopefully this is the year we erase all of those bad memories and what ifs......

[rob_justdmb]

By rule, his hand had to be EMPTY when his arm went forward for it to be considered a fumble.

Even according to the posted picture, his hand wasn't empty !!

show me that rule. I'm not saying it isn't a rule, but every other fumble scenario in the game is lack of control of the ball. He clearly doesn't have control. The NFL rule book is easy to find on NFL.com.

I've love your sig, btw. The same man who fired Paul Brown which led to our existence took your team away from you. Never thought I'd ever see a Browns fan celebrating something Art Modell did. I hate the Browns and Browns fans, but I hate a sellout even more.

[JPW]

This was definately a pass. First of all, in the above picture, his arm is going forward. No QB can begin his motion in that position. Secondly, the ball was still attatched to his hand, no matter what grip he used, and when the motion began. This play should have been overturned. I think the call makes the game suspect, when the Bengals probably would have held them.

BTW, no penalty for ineligble reciever would have been called because J Smith touched the ball (I think)

That is a GREAT picture, I wish I knew how Andybren gets such a clear pic.

But it is not really showing when Smith made contact with Carr, if you watch it frame by frame you will see that the contact was clearly made before his arm went forward and no Smith didn't touch the ball.

Well hold on, I have an idea that I can try.

[buck3y3d]

i think its stupid to argue about this call when we will never agree. Bengals fans will always try to justify this call and Texans fans will always try to refute.

However, in response to the picture, his arm was in a forward motion at that time, i just watched the replay. He had started his motion prior to this point. The rule for a pass says no where that a conventional grip must be used. To me, this is my opinion, he had definative control when he began his forward motion.

[derekshank]

From the stands it looked like an incomplete pass to me. It seems strange though to assume that if that bad call hadn't taken place they would have driven the field and scored a TD. Especially given they only maintained 3 drives the entire game of more than 30 yards, and the "fumble" occured on the Texans 35 yard-line.

Also had not been for the bogus "intentional grounding" call which robbed us of 34 yards when we were on the 16 yard line, we most likely would have gotten at least a FG... which was exactly what the fumble gave us.

All in all... it swings both ways. I thought both calls were bad. Given the field position and time of game, the call against the Texans was probably more devastating. But the fact is, if the game had been called well earlier, Houston probably would not have been in a position to win the game late.

Continue arguing if you like. I thought there were lots of bad calls in this game... and this one in particular did not account for so much that the game became out of reach for the Texans. We beat them as we are the better team. Good calls, or bad calls, we should have beat them, and did.