Corey Simon ...etc...etc...

[Stripes]

Now I have a feeling we'll see Chad get a raise during the season, and we'll avoid any offseason Rosenhaus drama...

[Kazkal]

Meh some good DT's coming out next year we can just draft ngata

[Stripes]

Meh some good DT's coming out next year we can just draft ngata

Unless Olahete pans out very well, I hope next year's first pick goes for a strong safety. That is, of course, if any good ones are available, and if not, I suppose grabbing a DT would be acceptable.

[bengalsLB]

i've heard very good things about darnell bing from usc and laron laundry from lsu

for SS and there are 4 first round DTs so if we get one of those six players we will

hve a good draft

[BengalszoneBilly]

i've heard very good things about darnell bing from usc and laron laundry from lsu

for SS and there are 4 first round DTs  so if we get one of those six players we will

hve a good draft

I hate to burst any bubbles here but the Bengals have been needing to grab a DT early for the past 3-4 drafts, yet refuse to do so everytime! Hence our defense against the run continues to stink. I think the Bengals defensive record during this time frame will bear me out on this!

I mean c'mon, this is football. Not Rocket Science!!

FIGURE IT OUT YOU DUMBASSES!!

I'm tired of this s**t! FYI...Marvin ain't perfect. This is a major f**kup on his part! Where is Cincinnati's "awesome" defense like he allegedly created in Washington and Baltimore? Maybe it wasn't our Black Messiah. Maybe he got lucky. Well he better start getting lucky here real soon.

s**t, defensive guru my ass. Gurus don't end up being ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league last time I checked, but hold on...lemme check again. Nope. It's offical. They still don't.

Hey! I think someone hit my nerve!

[BlackJesus]

The Team with the leagues highest Paid Player.... One of the Highest Paid WR's, and a Franchise RB has found a "Way" to pay Simon Like He deserved..... I can only hope that some day Marvins Brilliance as a Coach will be equalled by the determination for - a colossal failure of an owner - to ever aquire him any outside top notch talent.

= "Run it like a Business they say", "Don't overpay" ......"Well get to the playoffs you'll see.... Someday"

[Bengals4Me]

I'm disappointed that we missed out AGAIN in a free agent competition, BUT I'm less disappointed this time because it was Corey Simon. Yes, he's an excellent DT and would upgrade the Bengals roster but at what price? He's not the best DT in the league and he's not an up and comer. His defensive stats below are very good, but declining somewhat. I think the money can be better spent elsewhere, the question is whether management identifies the right places and/or players to spend it on.

DEFENSIVE STATS: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187398

(Sorry about the lack of formatting below, but you can check the link above.)

Year

Team

G

Total

Tckl

Ast

Sacks

Int

Yds

Avg

Lg

TD

Pass Def

2000

Philadelphia Eagles

16

52

38.0

14

9.5

0

0

0.0

0

0

3

2001

Philadelphia Eagles

16

47

36.0

11

7.5

0

0

0.0

0

0

3

2002

Philadelphia Eagles

14

40

33.0

7

2

0

0

0.0

0

0

3

2003

Philadelphia Eagles

16

40

32.0

8

7.5

0

0

0.0

0

0

2

2004

Philadelphia Eagles

16

32

26.0

6

5.5

0

0

0.0

0

0

1

TOTAL

78

211

165.0

46

32

0

0

0.0

0

0

12

[walshfan]

Manning is that good...

So what happens to all that "goodness" when he plays the Patriots? It's nowhere to be found, EVER! He's an over-rated Tennessee hick that has taken advantage of the NFL's new rules on coverage against lesser teams. That's it. I'll take Tom Brady anyday over him.

Oh, and to stay on topic, Simon will improve Indy's defense. (No duh, huh?)

First of all I did stay on topic if you read my post correctly.. What did you fail to understand about it?? Maybe I can enlighten you ....

So your opinion of the good people of Tennessee is that of hicks huh?

Do you allways generalize people in such ways?

As for Manning ...all Qb's have taken advantage of the new rules.. he's just done it better than most...

All QB's in the AFC have had their problems against the Pats...I just read an article about this ...

As for Brady..very good QB and Ill not get into a pissing contest with you about who is better.. Football is a team sport..not just a QB can win you championships.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Manning is that good...

So what happens to all that "goodness" when he plays the Patriots? It's nowhere to be found, EVER! He's an over-rated Tennessee hick that has taken advantage of the NFL's new rules on coverage against lesser teams. That's it. I'll take Tom Brady anyday over him.

Oh, and to stay on topic, Simon will improve Indy's defense. (No duh, huh?)

First of all I did stay on topic if you read my post correctly.. What did you fail to understand about it?? Maybe I can enlighten you ....

So your opinion of the good people of Tennessee is that of hicks huh?

Do you allways generalize people in such ways?

As for Manning ...all Qb's have taken advantage of the new rules.. he's just done it better than most...

All QB's in the AFC have had their problems against the Pats...I just read an article about this ...

As for Brady..very good QB and Ill not get into a pissing contest with you about who is better.. Football is a team sport..not just a QB can win you championships.

To amplify a couple of those points a bit:

1. The NFL didn't make any new rules. The Patriots were egregiously cheating, and getting away with it. Peyton was damned good before that, in case you didn't notice. Once referees started enforcing things like "holding," he was even better.

2. A lot of QBs get killed by Belichick. He does best against smart QBs who can't run well because his LBs can overplay without fearing a run by the QB. See what he's also done to Bledsoe and Roethlisberger.

3. Brady is good because he never has to play from behind. If he and Peyton switched teams (and particularly defenses), a lot of things would be different.

4. Brady is the only QB who never has to worry about being nailed by the Pats D.

5. Viniateri has meant more to that team than Brady.

6. Pats have a real running game, Edge is shot. That helps a great deal.

And yes, this was completely offtopic, but Brady is the most overrated QB outside of Roethlisberger. The Pats won, he didn't.

[HoosierCat]

I forget who it was but someone said if we signed Simon we would have to Cut Simmons, Braham and some other players were listed. That is so wrong.

No, I didn't. Go back and read the post again. All I said was that many of the players I listed would be leaving over the next few years, freeing up money in future years, so fitting Simon in -- this year and in future years -- would not be a problem.

[HoosierCat]

Joisey how do you know that his bonus money isnt guaranteed.. Maybe they agreed to it and will make necessary cuts to veterans next season...

It could be. They could do that too. Once the deal is done, the numbers will dribble out. I'm just betting that Simon was looking for a 1-year deal that will allow him to cash in big in FA next year. If the Cots went ahead and gave him a "real" deal at the $6 million/year average he wanted, hey, more power to them. We'll see.

[HoosierCat]

I hate to burst any bubbles here but the Bengals have been needing to grab a DT early for the past 3-4 drafts, yet refuse to do so everytime! Hence our defense against the run continues to stink. I think the Bengals defensive record during this time frame will bear me out on this!

Oh, come one, Builly, you know we don't need DTs. Marvin says so.

It's all the LBs fault. Or the safeties. Or the DEs. Or the corners. Or the fans. Who knows. But it's not the DTs. Marvin says so.

I don't even know why he keeps chasing guys like Sapp and Gardener and now Simon (twice). We dont need DTs. Our DTs are fne. Marvin says so.

[schweinhart]

i've heard very good things about darnell bing from usc and laron laundry from lsu

for SS and there are 4 first round DTs  so if we get one of those six players we will

hve a good draft

I hate to burst any bubbles here but the Bengals have been needing to grab a DT early for the past 3-4 drafts, yet refuse to do so everytime! Hence our defense against the run continues to stink. I think the Bengals defensive record during this time frame will bear me out on this!

I mean c'mon, this is football. Not Rocket Science!!

FIGURE IT OUT YOU DUMBASSES!!

I'm tired of this s**t! FYI...Marvin ain't perfect. This is a major f**kup on his part! Where is Cincinnati's "awesome" defense like he allegedly created in Washington and Baltimore? Maybe it wasn't our Black Messiah. Maybe he got lucky. Well he better start getting lucky here real soon.

s**t, defensive guru my ass. Gurus don't end up being ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league last time I checked, but hold on...lemme check again. Nope. It's offical. They still don't.

Hey! I think someone hit my nerve!

I hear you loud and clear Mr. Broome.

In 2003, I guess you could say adding Thornton was acceptable to go w/ OG, Steele, and Tony Williams.

But after what happened in 2003, clearly there was a run D problem that couldn't just be dumped on the LBs -- it was the DTs. No Sapp, then no Day 1 draft pick in an excellent draft year for DTs, and then no Gardener. Finally after halfway through the year, w/ Tony Williams mercifully gone, the Bengals hit the garbage pile and landed Terrance Martin and Shaun Smith (who does have some real potential).

Then this year, no pursuit of Pat Williams or Jason Ferguson -- really the only 2 UFAs worth going after IMO. And no draft picks, even though the DT class was much weaker than the year before.

The only difference I see w/ Simon is that this time ML came out telling the world that the Bengals...ie...Marvin...wanted Simon. So too did Carson Palmer.

But in the end, those differences didn't change what remains the same -- Mike Brown, a giant among natural born losers.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Another missed oppurtunity.

I am getting sick and tired of being little girls in free agency. Sapp, Sharper, Vincent,Taylor, and now Simon.

Wah Wah Wah... Change your diaper baby.

Yeah, we made a HUGE mistake not signing Sapp, who was ever so effective for the Raiders last season. 30 tackles, 12 assists and a wopping 2.5 sacks. We blew it. Instead of signing the overweight, ego-inflated, over the hill tackle, we went with our guys, including Langston Moore, who you seem to ignore, who had 22 tackles, 9 assists, and 1 sack. Oh, and he split time with a lot of guys last year, and wasn't a full time starter like Sapp. HUGE mistake in not wasting money on Sapp. You are so smart it hurts.

HUGE mistake not overpaying Vincent or Taylor. We got O'Neal and Brooks and Ratliff instead. Vincent had 1 sack, 1 interception, and all of 18 tackles before being injured last season. How could we miss out on that amazing season? Not only that, but we missed out on the ever remarkable Bobby Taylor and his 10 tackles, no interceptions, no sacks, no love, oops ouch I'm done. Huge mistake again. Instead we traded for O'Neal who despite being injured to start the season had a better season than both these guys combined and was a part of the rejuvenation of our defensive backfield. What once, prior to Marvin drafting defensive backs and getting guys like O'neal and James as Dbs, was a blight and the weakest spot on our defense is now one of our strengths. But you are probably one of those people who thinks Tory James only went to the pro-bowl because he was lucky and the ball just popped into his hands 8 times last season, making him second in the league in the category. And you probably think O'neal wasn't worth the trade down to get Chris Perry either. After all, he only had 4 interceptions (3 more than both your big named free agents combined) last season. Oh, and we have up and coming young guys in Ratliff (who had as many tackles AS A BACKUP ALL SEASON as both those guys too) and Brooks.

Oh no, we didn't overpay the over the hill Sharper and instead drafted guys named Pollack and Thurman who are going to have better seasons than Sharper. Mark my words, these two guys are better thank Sharper.

Oh no, we didn't get Simon. He wanted more than he was worth, and I'm glad. He too shall suffer from the Bengal Snubbing Curse and end up injured early this season.

You can whine and whine about missed "opportunities" to sign over the hill, over-rated, overpaid big NAME players who have as their best attribute the ability to have their agent market their NAME all you want. I'll stick with watching Marvin draft the future.

You can whine and whine about wanting to WIN NOW AT ALL COSTS, I'll settle for watching Marvin build a dynasty that will win soon, and win for a long long time. After 14 years, what's one more when it means building a dynasty?

[schweinhart]

You can whine and whine about wanting to WIN NOW AT ALL COSTS, I'll settle for watching Marvin build a dynasty that will win soon, and win for a long long time. After 14 years, what's one more when it means building a dynasty?

Don't get too comfy watching ML build a dynasty.

There's other jobs besides the Bengals and after Grandpa Gibbs irrefutably proves this year that he should have stuck to race cars, Snyderbrenner will be throwing some major cash around. I'd be surprised if the same doesn't happen in Dallas.

Who knows what kind of deal could be struck to get ML out of his contract with the Browns? Lots of cash on the table can do wonders for a negotiation.

I'm just glad Cowher pulled a 15-1 year out of his butt because ML is proly destined to wind up in Pittsburgh at some point. The more drafts ML gets for defensive players during his time with the Bengals the better because that's the one area where Mike Brown seems to have acknowledged his own incompetence and that of others whose opinions he values (except of course that I don't believe Mikey's given up total control of the 1st rd pick --- see Chris Perry )

[HoosierCat]

The only difference I see w/ Simon is that this time ML came out telling the world that the Bengals...ie...Marvin...wanted Simon. So too did Carson Palmer.

That's the issue that concerns me now. Between Marvin's coments as related by Curnutte in today's paper, and Carson's not-so-subtle name-dropping, (and even JT's defensiveness when asked whether Simon would be an upgrade) it seems pretty clear that the locker room expected...something. One of the most popular guys had just been cut (and lasted a whole day on the FA market) and we had plenty of cap space...more than any of our competitors for his services...and then...

nothing.

That's got to be a blow to the players' morale. And it's exactly the kind of thing that can cause "screw it the front office isn't doing it's job, why should I bother doing mine" thinking to bubble up. And if that happens, well, we can start discussing the '06 draft right about now.

[rizzy]

The only difference I see w/ Simon is that this time ML came out telling the world that the Bengals...ie...Marvin...wanted Simon. So too did Carson Palmer.

That's the issue that concerns me now. Between Marvin's coments as related by Curnutte in today's paper, and Carson's not-so-subtle name-dropping, (and even JT's defensiveness when asked whether Simon would be an upgrade) it seems pretty clear that the locker room expected...something. One of the most popular guys had just been cut (and lasted a whole day on the FA market) and we had plenty of cap space...more than any of our competitors for his services...and then...

nothing.

That's got to be a blow to the players' morale. And it's exactly the kind of thing that can cause "screw it the front office isn't doing it's job, why should I bother doing mine" thinking to bubble up. And if that happens, well, we can start discussing the '06 draft right about now.

If you had a choice over Cincinnati and Indy the player is going to pick Indy. When the bengals are in form to make a playoff run and Indy is in the form to make a super bowl run. You can not blame the bengals orginization or front office. You have no idea what they offered him it could have been identical to what indy did. It is more on simons choice than anything.

[schweinhart]

The only difference I see w/ Simon is that this time ML came out telling the world that the Bengals...ie...Marvin...wanted Simon. So too did Carson Palmer.

That's the issue that concerns me now. Between Marvin's coments as related by Curnutte in today's paper, and Carson's not-so-subtle name-dropping, (and even JT's defensiveness when asked whether Simon would be an upgrade) it seems pretty clear that the locker room expected...something. One of the most popular guys had just been cut (and lasted a whole day on the FA market) and we had plenty of cap space...more than any of our competitors for his services...and then...

nothing.

That's got to be a blow to the players' morale. And it's exactly the kind of thing that can cause "screw it the front office isn't doing it's job, why should I bother doing mine" thinking to bubble up. And if that happens, well, we can start discussing the '06 draft right about now.

I'd be even more concerned by Levi's comments about grinding out your LT, which I'm not sure popped here on this board.

When a warrior like Levi shoots off the cuff after ML criticizes his play, there's got to be some concern. Levi, like Warrick, came back too soon after getting scoped late in 2003 to help the team compete for a playoff bid.

I'd say extend Levi right now, but I'm not sure he's healthy.

Nothing like some pre-season drama

[Irish Bengal]

I hate to say it but did we expect the outcome to be any different.

[bengalboomer7]

I haven't seen all the details but he would have never been a Bengals with the kind of funny money contract he got from Indy. I read something like 13 mill in bonus money, but there is a huge option bonus that he'll probably never see. Mikey just doesn't do this, and the agents love it cause it makes them look good. Now, when they are recruiting other players they can say, I got Corey Simon this, whether he sees it all or not.

This reminds me of the Rudi and Lamont Jordan deals. I remember reading that even though Lamont got a tad more money, his contract was so backloaded he'd never see it all. On the other hand, Rudi's deal was more spread out and he will likely play throughout the whole deal. This is just my speculation, but I would imagine something along the same lines happpend with Corey Simon. If the Bengals offered him anything, it was probably a spread out deal, where he was likely to earn, where it looks like he got a backloaded deal from Indy, but the reports will say it's for a huge amount of money, most of which he'll likely never see. Remember when they broke down Shaun Rogers contract and he had all these incentives that he would never reach, like playing 98% of special teams plays. But the report just said he got a deal worth 60 mill dollars, when in reality it was like 35 mill

Oh well, time to move on

[HoosierCat]

I'd be even more concerned by Levi's comments about grinding out your LT, which I'm not sure popped here on this board.

When a warrior like Levi shoots off the cuff after ML criticizes his play, there's got to be some concern. Levi, like Warrick, came back too soon after getting scoped late in 2003 to help the team compete for a playoff bid.

Yeah, I saw that, too. I chalked it up to frustration on Levi's part...but you're right, it's another suggestion of discontent in the locker room.

Rizzy: you miss my point. Who's to blame or why Simon went to Indy isn't the issue. The issue is that the team has just seen a locker room leader, whose injury issues trace back to coming back from surgery too soon to try to help the team win, get axed. Their comments -- Chads, Carson's, TJ's, Willie's -- clearly show they are upset about it. Now comes an opportunity to have some good come out of it, by applying some of that cap space to signing Corey Simon. Marvin was unusually vocal about wanting Simon. Locker room comments suggest the players were expecting a signing. And then...nothing. And this comes on top of existing issues (see Marvin's comments about complacency and Levi's comments referenced above). No, I can't see any good coming out of this episode.

[HairOnFire]

I hate to say it but did we expect the outcome to be any different.

Nope. It's disappointing to me because it sounds like the Bengals came close, and because Simon is still a younger player instead of the fading big name FA that they normally chase.

All I can do is shrug because I was busy yesterday and missed all of the drama. It simply played out too quickly for me to get amped up or let down. I've missed the party.

Damn that Mike Brown, I say with no gusto.

[nebengals]

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Colts | Simon Set to Sign Five-Year Deal

Thu, 1 Sep 2005 08:15:46 -0700

Updating an ongoing story, Len Pasquarelli, of ESPN.com, reports barring any complications on a physical examination, free agent DT Corey Simon (Eagles) plans to fly to Indianapolis on Friday, Sept. 2, and sign a five-year, $30 million deal with the Indianapolis Colts. The deal is expected to include $13 million in bonuses, according to Simon's agent, Roosevelt Barnes. Both sides reached an agreement in principle on all the financial components of the contract Wednesday, Aug. 31, and the deal should be wrapped up sometime Thursday, Sept. 1, according to sources close to the talks.

[derekshank]

It's disappointing in the sense that Marvin and the players seemed to want him, and we didn't get him. It's disappointing in the sense that big name players still tend to go other directions than here, for whatever reason, whether it be money, or the perennial losers stigma.

For me though, It's not disappointing because I truly believe Simon was overrated. He is not worth the kind of money he is asking... and his numbers were decreasing from year to year, on a line in Philly that is apparently deep and talented enough to not really need him.

It also seems like if he was willing to hold out for the Eagles asking for large amounts of money that the majority of the league doesn't think he is worth, he will almost assuredly cause problems for his future employers... whether it be the Bengals or Colts. I say, good for the Colts.

Whatever you think about John Thornton being overpayed, I'd rather have someone who is content being overpayed, rather than someone who will be overpayed, and then bitch and be a cancer, and hold-out.

Not to mention the fact that the DT position is not where we need the most help. There hasn't been a DT in the draft the past 3 years at our drafting position worth taking in the first 2 rounds, but we have gone out and gotten decent free-agents. Big Names, that make us giddy? no, but serviceable.

The only thing that will relly piss me off about this is if we ended up cutting Warrick, but Mikey just sticks the extra in his pocket. There are still positions out there that we need to better ourselves, especially in the defensive backfield.

If we don't make some moves with the next line of cuts, then I'll be pretty distraught. But as far as Simon goes... I'm not too disappointed. I, like Joisey, just want to see Brown make some moves to show the locker room that we are trying to compete.

[Dadraftnick]

I tried to tell you guys that the Bengals were not going to end up with Corey Simon.From what I have read the Bengals were in the Simon Derby and pulled up lame as soon as Indy raised the stakes.Does this sound familiar?Deja vu all over again as Yogi would have put it.Its Warren Sapp, Jamie Sharper..and so on and so on. Mike Brown has never done what it takes to get a top flight DIFFERENCE MAKER free agent.He will over pay to keep the guys he drafted, he will get the 2nd and 3rd tier guys and some of them have developed like Ashley Ambrose but, if you were to add up the money he has wasted on the guys like Rod Jones he would have been better off paying a little more for quality.A quality player like Simon could have help make up for others mistakes.Mike Brown has always been penny wise and pound foolish.Brown has fooled everyone again.He is the David Blane of GM's.He could not spend the extra money on Pat Williams Daren Sharper,ect so he could save money to spend on Corey Simon.Now Simon is gone and SURPRISE! Mike is somewhere between 6 and 8 million under the cap.Funny how that worked out.I tell you one thing Marvin has got to be getting sick of this.How can you expect a guy to win when you will not give him what he says he needs.Sooner or later a Ncaa program or another NFL team (when his contract expires) will make him an offer and he will ask himself if he wants to keep fighting with one arm tied behind his back.