Don't count on Perry....#$@%

[Steve4192]

Kevin Jones and Julius Jones are good running backs in their systems, But can Kevin Jones take the pounding of the AFC North? Can Julius Jones take the pounding of the AFC North?

Can Chris Perry take the pounding of a late-July practice in sunny Georgetown KY? Can Chris Perry withstand the devasting two-hand tag delievered by Kevin Kaesviharn in a shorts and T-shirts practice?

How can you possibly defend the Perry pick based on his durability? At least the Jones boys can make it out of the tub to help their club on Sundays.

[CBin2k7]

Kevin Jones and Julius Jones are good running backs in their systems, But can Kevin Jones take the pounding of the AFC North?  Can Julius Jones take the pounding of the AFC North?

Can Chris Perry take the pounding of a late-July practice in sunny Georgetown KY? Can Chris Perry withstand the devasting two-hand tag delievered by Kevin Kaesviharn in a shorts and T-shirts practice?

How can you possibly defend the Perry pick based on his durability? At least the Jones boys can make it out of the tub to help their club on Sundays.

Didn't defend Perry, just saying his running style at Michigan was between the tackles and he was more of a threat catching the ball than the other two. Now at the time Perry was drafted did we envision him being hurt. I certaintly didn't but how can you say you want Kevin Jones or Julius Jones when they don't seem to fit the system.

I think the back that Perry was at Michigan is a good edition to the Bengals system.

J. Jones spent half the season hurt.

[schweinhart]

Before this thread deteriorates into the 900th pissing match over Chris Perry, I'd just like to say this.

Agree with the pick or not or any free agent pickup or player let go -- whatever -- the main thing is we get to go with what they got.

I hope Perry is not put on IR this year because he does need to get on the field. Kenny Watson will be a UFA next year and he's not going to stick around because he wants to start somehwere -- it's the reason he split the Deadskins after starting a half year and being told he would be the backup (to Trung Candidate )

So Perry needs top hit the field. And I will say that Perry is an excellent receiver. He could very easily play slot WR IMO and he'll give LBs nightmares coming out of the backfield. While I remain unconvinced that his running out of the backfield is NFL caliber, Bengals or not, he does have the benefit of Jim Anderson who will make the most of what Perry has got. Plus, his chances of greater success running the ball increase with a spread offense and with a QB like Carson, it's really just a matter of time before the power I is put away.

[Steve4192]

J. Jones spent half the season hurt.

As opposed to Chris 'two-carry' Perry?

I actually have no problem with the Perry pick, but you can't slam other backs durability in an effort to prop up Perry. Perry's quick feet, lateral movement skills, and route running / pass catching abilities are all great reasons to like the guy. If there is one area where Chris deserves all the grief being heaped upon him, it is durability.

Hopefully, he will end up getting healthy and show off all of the other attributes he brings to the table, but don't tell me that he can 'handle the pounding' better than other second year running backs. I see better than I hear, and I have yet to see Chris Perry demonstrate even a shred of durability on the pro level.

[Steve4192]

Kenny Watson will be a UFA next year and he's not going to stick around because he wants to start somehwere -- it's the reason he split the Deadskins after starting a half year and being told he would be the backup (to Trung Candidate )

Kenny Watson didn't 'split' the Redskins, the Redskins cut him. While I like Kenny, he is fortunate to even be playing in the NFL and he knows it. He won't be offered any starting gigs and he'll be more than happy to hang on to his job as a 3rd down RB and KR specialist.

[Jet23]

Anderson had Perry rated #1, thus he was #1 on the Bengals draft board. Since he was hurt, how do we know he was not the best rb in the draft? Because some of the 'experts' say so. This was a fluke injury exasperated by an incompetent medical staff. The bottom line is we will never know until Perry is healthy.

[Stripes]

I certainly hope Perry ends up playing like a first round pick, and I expect he will. I don't, however, understand all the squabbling over who will be better. Rudi just broke the franchise rushing record and was signed to a long term deal. The Bengals are set at RB. Even if Perry does end up showing starter caliber stuff, I'd imagine him being future trade bate (LaMont Jordan). Rudi is a perfect fit in this offense, and especially in this division. Don't fix it if it ain't broke!

[CBin2k7]

J. Jones spent half the season hurt.

As opposed to Chris 'two-carry' Perry?

I actually have no problem with the Perry pick, but you can't slam other backs durability in an effort to prop up Perry. Perry's quick feet, lateral movement skills, and route running / pass catching abilities are all great reasons to like the guy. If there is one area where Chris deserves all the grief being heaped upon him, it is durability.

Hopefully, he will end up getting healthy and show off all of the other attributes he brings to the table, but don't tell me that he can 'handle the pounding' better than other second year running backs. I see better than I hear, and I have yet to see Chris Perry demonstrate even a shred of durability on the pro level.

I wasn't making a point about durability. I was making a point about a back's ability to pound the ball between the tackles.

Chris Perry showed in college that he could do it.

Julius Jones and Kevin Jones were more outside runners with exception at times for Julius Jones who could pound a little.

This has nothing to do with what they have done with the NFL, I was making a point about what was probably the thought process on draft day.

It's not like Perry got hurt because of someone pounding on him.

[schweinhart]

Kenny Watson will be a UFA next year and he's not going to stick around because he wants to start somehwere -- it's the reason he split the Deadskins after starting a half year and being told he would be the backup (to Trung Candidate  )

Kenny Watson didn't 'split' the Redskins, the Redskins cut him. While I like Kenny, he is fortunate to even be playing in the NFL and he knows it. He won't be offered any starting gigs and he'll be more than happy to hang on to his job as a 3rd down RB and KR specialist.

Kenny Watson did split the Deadskins.

The Old Ball Coach, Mr. Fun & Gun hisself, gave Watson the option to back up Canidate or be waived and Watson chose to be waived because he wanted to go somehwere to vie for a starting spot.

Watson proly didn't think the Bengals would gobble him off the waiver wire first by virtue of their great 2-14 season in 2002 since Dillon, Rudi, and Brandon Bennett were already there. If he'd have known that and what a flop Trung and the Old Ball Coach turned out to be, he might've stuck it out in DC.

As for him being lucky to be in the NFL and happy to hang on to his role job, I disagree. When he had the chance to start in the place of Stephen Davis in 2002 Watson avg. 18-79 for 4.5 ypc. Over a season, he'd have been at 270-1,185. And his receiving skills add to his appeal as a single-back RB in a spread.

Last year, Kenny did the role asked him and did it well except for a costly fumble in 1st game vs. Steelers. I'd like to see Perry get going and get in for pre-season because a healthy Watson should be more important for the Bengals to make a playoff run this year than a healthy Perry.

[Steve4192]

Kenny Watson did split the Deadskins.

The Old Ball Coach, Mr. Fun & Gun hisself, gave Watson the option to back up Canidate or be waived and Watson chose to be waived because he wanted to go somehwere to vie for a starting spot.

Watson proly didn't think the Bengals would gobble him off the waiver wire first by virtue of their great 2-14 season in 2002 since Dillon, Rudi, and Brandon Bennett were already there.

That's a great story ... it's just a shame that it is patently false.

First of all, PLEASE show me some proof that Watson REQUESTED his release from the Redskins. I have a hard time believing an undrafted college free agent with one year of NFL game experience under his belt would be issuing ultimatums to his coach. From what I remember, he was with them all the way until final cuts in 2003 and was one of the last guys to get the axe. He didn't lose the Redskins starting RB job to Candidate, he lost the backup RB job to Ladell Betts.

Second, the Bengals did NOT grab Kenny off of waivers. He sat at home watching football and eating cheetos from his couch for a MONTH before getting the call from Marvin Lewis. Don't believe me? Let me show you how this linking thing works.

Here is Watson's bio from Bengals.com: http://www.bengals.com/team/players.asp?player_id=294

Notice the following line from his 2003 season recap:

PREVIOUS SEASONS: 2003 - Spent the 2003 preseason with Washington, and was released in final roster cuts Aug. 31 after posting preseason statistics of 18-for-74 rushing and 5-for-28 receiving … Signed by Bengals as free agent on Sept. 30

Is there anything else you'd like to fabricate about Kenny Watson? Can he shoot laser beams from his eyes and leap tall buildings in a single bound? Can he developed a cure for cancer and invent a time travel device while balancing a chair on his nose? Inquiring minds want to know.

[DontPushMe]

Better yet Darnell Dockett 

Ha! I pimped that guys so hard on the other board that I was embarrasssed when I saw how far he fell on draft day. Then the whistles blew and almost immediately he played exactly like the player I coveted. If he can stay out of trouble he's going to get better and better.

No need to be embrassed Hair.

Dockett went where Perry should've -- 1st pick of 3rd rd.

I don't know why teams let a little thing like clinical insanity stand in the way of making personnel decisions. Dockett was relentless and ruthless in college. Plus he's got arms the size of legs and genuinely looks like he is trying to detach someone's helmet with the head still inside. Why, all the things I think should be coveted in a DT. Sure would be nice to have one like that, eh?

Perry was argueably the best RB in that draft. I had him second to Kevin Jones, most fan sites had him 3rd, the bengals had him first. So did a handful of other teams. I never saw him rated below 3, some of you need to get over this hatred you have for the guy.

BTW, Docket went right we he belonged. Leading up to that draft I had him as a mid-late 2nd round pick. He seems to me like he is going to be one of those players who hangs around for a while, maybe 5 years, never makes a huge impact, but is solid. Not really what you are looking for in the first round, but a good pickup in the 2nd or 3rd. The people who thought he was a 1st round pick were probly the same ones thinking Antaaj Hawthorne was a 1st round pick this year.

[kingwilly]

God almighty!

We all were bewildered and confused when they took Perry in the 1st.

We all were upset and further frustrated with Perry's injuries and inability to get on the field.

We all concede that Kennny Watson is a decent back-up and able special teams player.

Can't we save all the huffin and puffin of rehashing the whole diatibe again and again?

How about talking about Quincy Wilson, who is healthy, skilled and fast? They will give Perry every chance but maybe we should worry about the players who may acutally help us this season!?!

[schweinhart]

Is there anything else you'd like to fabricate about Kenny Watson? Can he shoot laser beams from his eyes and leap tall buildings in a single bound? Can he developed a cure for cancer and invent a time travel device while balancing a chair on his nose? Inquiring minds want to know.

No. But he can stick out one hand behind him and have the ball stick to his palm as he stretches behind himself over the middle to make a diving grab. Want the link?

You got me there Steve. I can't find the link about Watson asking to be released but I could have swore it came from Mark Maske. Yet all I can find from Maske was the backup battle as you describe plus Spurrier's preference for McCullough, which looks like it was ultimate factor in Watson's release. Apparently both Betts and Watson were put on the trading block after Canidate was signed but no takers.

And you got it right again about Watson clearing waivers, though I seriously doubt he was eating Cheetos before he was signed as a free agent. You learn some new and different every day

Good job, man. And you threw it back at me creatively and pointedly, setting the record straight. Much obliged.

But still, I'd much rather engage in a pissing match over Watson any day of the week than one over Perry, even if my facts in the case of Watson turn out to be fiction.

Just don't tell Watson. He might be heartbroken to know he's just lucky and has got no chance to ever start in the league.

[BengalszoneBilly]

As long as we're talking about Kenny Watson, I don't know why he's even on the team. He's hardly a backups, backup!

[Stripes]

As long as we're talking about Kenny Watson, I don't know why he's even on the team. He's hardly a backups, backup!

I think he's in the wrong place on the depth chart, but that said, I think he was a solid contributor last year in Perry's absence. I remember a few key plays with him making third down receptions or running on draws, and if needed, he can be a decent kick returner.

[schweinhart]

BTW, Docket went right we he belonged. Leading up to that draft I had him as a mid-late 2nd round pick. He seems to me like he is going to be one of those players who hangs around for a while, maybe 5 years, never makes a huge impact, but is solid. Not really what you are looking for in the first round, but a good pickup in the 2nd or 3rd. The people who thought he was a 1st round pick were probly the same ones thinking Antaaj Hawthorne was a 1st round pick this year.

Even a solid five years as you project for Dockett in your unparalled wisdom would be an upgrade for the Bengals. That draft had lots of options at #26 on both sides of the ball who would have been a better pick than Perry.

As for Hawthorne, any forecast of him going earlier than Round 3 would've been more than a reach. Of course you had him going right where he did, didn't you Grandmaster Flush?

[Stripes]

As long as we're talking about Kenny Watson, I don't know why he's even on the team. He's hardly a backups, backup!

I think he's in the wrong place on the depth chart, but that said, I think he was a solid contributor last year in Perry's absence. I remember a few key plays with him making third down receptions or running on draws, and if needed, he can be a decent kick returner.

Bengals.com had some great timing today to reinforce my point on Kenny Watson:

"But the best catch of the morning had to go to RB Kenny Watson when he stuck out one hand behind him and the ball stuck to his palm as he stretched behind over the middle to make a diving grab ... "

[Steve4192]

No. But he can stick out one hand behind him and have the ball stick to his palm as he stretches behind himself over the middle to make a diving grab. Want the link? 

Nice comeback. I actually like Kenny Watson. I think he's a great fit as a pass catching 3rd down back who can do some damage running the ball too. He's a solid role player and role players, no matter how good, are fortunate to find a team/coach who believes in their ability to fill that role. If Marvin Lewis hadn't taken that one year gig as DC for the 'skins, Kenny might be selling insurance right now. Kenny's a good player, but so are a lot of guys who never managed to stick in the league for one reason or another.

Good job, man. And you threw it back at me creatively and pointedly, setting the record straight. Much obliged.

Kudos for not getting huffy and started a p*ssing match (like a lot of folks would have). I was mildly concerned when I made the post that you'd take it as an insult/personal attack. I'm glad you took the post in the spirit it was intended, a little light-hearted smack talk with no malice intended.

[schweinhart]

Not to flog a dead horse, but in searching for the cached source where I believe I read Spurrier gave Watson a choice between back-up and release I did find something else that questions whether or not the call about Watson was even Spurrier's to make.

Similarly, Pastaboy puts his nose back in its normal resting place within the crack of Snyder's bum.  By reminding us at that surprise cuts Danny Wuerrfel and Kenny Watson are still trolling for work, Len defends Snyder's deciding vote to dump both of them, despite the wishes of his head coach.

The link, albeit taken with a grain of ant bait: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:CnClT...watson%22&hl=en

Another thing about Watson clearing waivers -- rosters are for the most part set by the final cut, especially at skill positions and even more so for starters. Of course, the fact that Watson cleared waivers doesn't quite wash with any notion of him wanting to be released to vie for a starters spot at that point in pre-season.

But he did start before and he could do it again in his mind if given the chance on the field, I think would be his perspective because he got a taste of what it is to be a starting RB in the NFL.

I'm looking much more forward to watching Watson in pre-season than Perry

[DontPushMe]

How about talking about Quincy Wilson, who is healthy, skilled and fast? They will give Perry every chance but maybe we should worry about the players who may acutally help us this season!?!

Actually Quincey Wilson is one of the slowest RBs in the NFL. Not sure where you are getting your info but maybe you should try watching football.

[membengal]

How about talking about Quincy Wilson, who is healthy, skilled and fast? They will give Perry every chance but maybe we should worry about the players who may acutally help us this season!?!

Actually Quincey Wilson is one of the slowest RBs in the NFL. Not sure where you are getting your info but maybe you should try watching football.

DPM knows because he has personally timed every running back in the NFL and refers to a spread sheet when making these statements...

[Steve4192]

While DPM's 'slowest in the NFL' statement might be a bit of hyperbole, for the most part he is right. The book on Quincy Wilson is pretty much the same as the book on Rudi Johnson. A between the tackles grinder who lacks that extra gear to take it the distance.

Here is his draft profile from NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/quincy_wilson

He ran a 4.62 40 yard dash with a 4.28 short shuttle at the combine, both mediocre times by RB standards. He is described as stout power runner with good contact balance who lacks explosion and has only adequate speed. None of that means he isn't a good player, it just means he's not 'fast' when compared to the majority of NFL running backs.

[membengal]

While DPM's 'slowest in the NFL' statement might be a bit of hyperbole, for the most part he is right. The book on Quincy Wilson is pretty much the same as the book on Rudi Johnson. A between the tackles grinder who lacks that extra gear to take it the distance.

Here is his draft profile from NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/quincy_wilson

He ran a 4.62 40 yard dash with a 4.28 short shuttle at the combine, both mediocre times by RB standards. He is described as stout power runner with good contact balance who lacks explosion and has only adequate speed. None of that means he isn't a good player, it just means he's not 'fast' when compared to the majority of NFL running backs.

Yup, he's not a burner. But, as usual, DPM cannot resist a broad generalization in swiping at a guy.

Sounds like Wilson brings plenty to the table for the Bengals to consider. That's good news. There are plenty of great backs who are not classic burners. Perhaps Wilson will be one someday. Perhaps not. But DPM was being arbitrarily dismissive, whereas you pointed out the strenghts Wilson brings to the table too.

For what it's worth DPM, your former boy Dillon was never among the fastest in the league in his youth either.

[schweinhart]

I seriously question the thinking if Wilson sticks over Watson.

Maybe Wilson can catch some balls, but if he looks as inept as Rudi does over the middle of the field w/ his back to the defense as a safety valve, then I can't see having only 1 RB on the roster who is a threat to catch -- and not just to dump off to but to actually run routes.

If Rudi goes out, Watson can run the ball effectively -- there's been nothing in his career to indicate he can't. Perry is still too much of a wildcard health wise and IMO running between the tackles -- he didn't show he could do it well enough last pre-season but we'll see how much of that was injury related.

[DesperateDerelict]

I seriously question the thinking (that) Wilson sticks over Watson.

I agree Schweinie . . . and I think the forgotten man here is JJ! Jeremi, when in shape (and motivated), is probably a better runner than Reuben Droughms. He broke off half-a-dozen runs in college of 40+ yards . . . and thats when he weighed 280 lbs!

Until proven otherwise, we need to backup Two-carry (who will be GREAT once he has the guts) before we need to back-up Rudi. JJ can back up Rudi.