Are we the laughing stock of Free Agency?

[TJJackson]

I keep scouring the draft lists, looking for offensive lineman who run a 4.2 40, and I haven't had much luck, really.

Maybe next year.

[Whur CHad At?]

Never know.

[not-another]

It doesnt matter the big of name the player is, just that he has heart. Havent you seen movies like Angels in the Endzone? They have a sucky team with a bunch of nerds, then they get some heart and come studs.

Okay, that didnt have no relievence to the thread. Forget it.

[shatan]

i really don't think it is marvin lewis's style to go out and get over-priced free agents. if they are worth it in the long run , yes, but otherwise i think he'd rather groom cheaper, younger and more long term hopefuls than old ass over priced has-bens like warren sapp. last year for that price we ended up signing about 4 really good defencive rookies and one vet. that's pretty much how he built the baltimore defence. he did his homework on for draft day.

having said that, it would be great to get a big name player to.

[BengalszoneBilly]

It is so frustrating when your whole life you have never really known the playoffs( i was alive when we were in our second super bowl, but dont remeber it), and we never sign big name players!!! It is just so dissapointing.

Well I can totally relate to that! And I understand that you feel soooo frustrated, even more frustrated than Rosie O'Donnel having to decline a free doughnut! But it has begun to change, and I personally feel this Bengals team, regardless of any free agents signed this year or not, will make the playoffs this season and will continue to be a playoff contending team for many years to come. That will be mostly due to Marvin's plan, and him finally having his system up and completed, running at full strength! There may be another two to three years before the organization has reached this capability and runs this effieciently.

Oh...be glad you were too young, and missed seeing the Super Bowl losses. Any one of us here who watched those games remember the feeling the pain, when we realized our hope had suddenly turned into our horror! We still carry the ugly scar it left on our hearts. The good news is I've heard from several Bronco fans that finally winning a Super Bowl is the best medicine there is in healing such scars!

Well I'm no Doctor, but I say it's high time we open up the damn "Pharmacy" and start handing out some of that :player: "Cincinnati Salve!" :player: We got alot of people around here who need to be cured!

[schweinhart]

Stop the run and the cure starts to take hold

[HairOnFire]

having said that, it would be great to get a big name player to.

What defines a big name player? Tory James was a 2nd tier free agent signing but he just went to the Pro Bowl. Bengal spurner Bobby Taylor didn't come close, but his signing with the Bengals would have been considered a big name deal if it happened, right?

Taking things a step further, Taylor signed with Seattle because they offered more free agent dollars....(Sound familiar?)....but is now one of the players the Seahawks are said to be considering cutting. Again, sound familiar? It should. Many of the free agents who signed elsewhere were fairly quick cut casualties precisely because of the deals they signed. So if Taylor is cut after one season who made the smart move? Taylor? Seahawks?

[BengalByTheBay]

Good point -- Sapp didn't help out the Raiders much last year other than giving them somebody to have interviewed constantly. Although I won't go as far as to say he had a miserable year, he wasn't adding to the highlight reel either.

[Indycat]

Oh...be glad you were too young, and missed seeing the Super Bowl losses.

Ohh contraire my friend

Watching the Bengals in the Super Bowl, as tragic as it was ,was still a treasure to me.

Cincinnati did nothing to embarrass themselves in those game. They played their hearts out. They put themselves in a deep hole in SB XVI yet made a game of it in the second half (outgaining SF 356 to 275 for the game). In SB XXIII we had a lead with 3:20 to go in the game but had the misfortune of going against arguably the best QB to play in the NFL who led SF on that fateful 92 yard drive.

I greatly look forward to the day we are Super Bowl champions but I still treasure the memories of of Super Bowls past.

on a side note..... when I got a PS2 and built a Bengal franchise I got a peculiar satisfaction beating the snot out of SF in the Super Bowl..... it was..............therapeutic

[HoosierCat]

Taking things a step further, Taylor signed with Seattle because they offered more free agent dollars....(Sound familiar?)....but is now one of the players the Seahawks are said to be considering cutting. Again, sound familiar? It should. Many of the free agents who signed elsewhere were fairly quick cut casualties precisely because of the deals they signed. So if Taylor is cut after one season who made the smart move? Taylor? Seahawks?

Taking it even a step further, what does it say about our head coach's ability to judge FA talent that so many of the players he's chased (signed here or not) have turned out to be flops? Sapp...Vincent...Hardy...none of them worth the coin they got. Clemons...Thornton...Herring...Bobbie Williams...average guys on a good day. Beckett? Always hurt, gone. Webster? Well, got 3 games out of him so far (and he's had no shortage of detractors from the day he signed). Reggie Kelley...Tony Stewart...less said the better, eh? Of the whole bunch, Tory James has been the only standout...and even the proverbial blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

The Bengals have certainly been more active in FA since Marvin came to town. But they haven't gotten much better results.

[HairOnFire]

Taking it even a step further, what does it say about our head coach's ability to judge FA talent that so many of the players he's chased (signed here or not) have turned out to be flops? Sapp...Vincent...Hardy...none of them worth the coin they got.

If they weren't worth the money they got...well...why get upset when the Bengals final offer gets rejected?

Ehhh?

Let's also remember how often the subject of how a free agent is going to be used by a team if signed. Jamie Sharper was just the latest example of this, right? His agent said it was one of the most important factors in his decision making. Pretty sure Bobby Taylor was said to be slotted for nickleback or safety if signed by the Bengals. And the Raiders signed Sapp with the idea of moving him outside to DE on most downs, an experiment that failed miserably. I doubt very much the Bengals had that in mind when pursuing Sapp.

[HoosierCat]

If they weren't worth the money they got...well...why get upset when the Bengals final offer gets rejected?

Because -- as the saying goes -- no pain, no gain.

My issue isn't that they didn't sign this or that specific player. It's that the bengals' preferred method of doing business cuts them out of the whole upper tier of free agency. Yeah, there's going to be flops there, but it's also the place you're most likely to find an impact player as well.

And the Raiders signed Sapp with the idea of moving him outside to DE on most downs, an experiment that failed miserably. I doubt very much the Bengals had that in mind when pursuing Sapp.

Agreed. I think Sapp would have been better off, from a game performance standpoint, in Cincy vs. Oakland. I mean, all he would have had to do in Cincy was...be better than Tony Williams. Hell, Langston Moore was better than Tony Williams.

[HairOnFire]

My issue isn't that they didn't sign this or that specific player. It's that the bengals' preferred method of doing business cuts them out of the whole upper tier of free agency. Yeah, there's going to be flops there, but it's also the place you're most likely to find an impact player as well.

Again, isn't the real issue the Bengals inability to attract ANY interest, serious or not, from players whose status dicates the Bengals do something more creative? Most of these guys that do show interest in signing with the Bengals aren't worthy of potentially cap busting consideration, and if they eventually sign for money they're not worth...doesn't that say something positive about the Bengals ability to accurately judge their true value? So why ignore your own drop dead point after you've gone to the trouble of figuring out what it is?

As for a willingness to ignore the preferred method of doing business, who is the biggest name free agent the Bengals have ever signed? Keep in mind that I'm not talking about the best signing, I'm asking who had the biggest reputation?

How about Richmond Webb?

And didn't the Bengals give Webb on of those ego stroking backloaded deals that included phantom years and fake money everyone knew he was never going to earn? I don't recall all of the contract details but I do recall from the moment the ink hit the page it was said his deal was nothing more than a two-year bandaid.

[HairOnFire]

Agreed. I think Sapp would have been better off, from a game performance standpoint, in Cincy vs. Oakland. I mean, all he would have had to do in Cincy was...be better than Tony Williams. Hell, Langston Moore was better than Tony Williams.

Hey, we agreed on something. Very cool.

I think Warren Sapp got exactly what he deserved. He played the Bengals, lied about it, and then laughed it up in every interview....the only thing he still does well. After the talking was done he eventually had to play some football and when he did he did little more than provide even more ammo for everyone that thought he was a rapidly declining player. How he might have done playing on the interior in Cincy is anyones guess, but he couldn't have performed worse than last year. And best, most people felt the contract he signed was in reality a two-year deal...so the end of his career may be closer due to his choice of contracts.

[Tampa Bengal]

The Bengals are not the Laughing Stock of the league. They had goals of keeping their players and they did that. They wanted to add depth to the D-Line and they did that. The guys they signed and kept are players other teams went after and lost out on. I think Cinci was on target all through out Free agency.

There are other teams out there that are the laughing stock. One of those teams being the Bucs. This years signings include: Akili Smith, Joey Galloway, Matt Bryant, Anthony Becht and Chris Hovan.

With the exception of Akili these players are scheduled to start.

NOW THAT IS A LAUGHING STOCK!

[HoosierCat]

And didn't the Bengals give Webb on of those ego stroking backloaded deals that included phantom years and fake money everyone knew he was never going to earn? I don't recall all of the contract details but I do recall from the moment the ink hit the page it was said his deal was nothing more than a two-year bandaid.

IIRC Webb's deal was 3 years, $9 million, structured something like a $3 million signing bonus and salaries of 1, 2, 3. I wouldn't call that backloaded; $3 million in real money and $4 million cap hit is hardly out of control for a starting LT, even a few years back. He just wasn't good enough to justify it at that point.

Again, isn't the real issue the Bengals inability to attract ANY interest, serious or not, from players whose status dicates the Bengals do something more creative?

Well, that's hard to say, since the bengals rarely even chase top-tier FAs -- and then usually only when teams with more lavish habits have left a possible nugget behind (like Sapp) or the guy just got released late (liike Sharper). Vincent is the only (allegedly) top guy they've chased out of the gate in recent memory.

Marvin knows the Bengals front office won't play the cash-over-cap game...not even if he asks pretty please with sugar on it. So...he doesn't bother. At most he makes a polite phone call, like the one reportedly (per Hobson) made to Pat Williams at the start of FA. The Bengals wanted a visit (presumably to give a dog-and-pony show similar to the one they gave Sharper). Pat said, nah, I'm just taking offers, what's your bid? And Marvin declined to get involved. I can't blame him. What are his odds of winning against a team that will play games with the cap (hint: same percentage chance I gave them of signing Sharper )?

[HoosierCat]

I stand corrected on the Webb deal. Checked it just to make sure. Per Lenny @ espn it broke down as a $1 million signing bonus and another $3 million in salary over the first 2 years. The third year had a $4 million salary number and a $1 million roster bonus. Probably the closest thing to cash-over-cap the bengals have ever come, intentionally creating a massive $333k in dead money...props to Mikey!

[HairOnFire]

I stand corrected on the Webb deal. Checked it just to make sure. Per Lenny @ espn it broke down as a $1 million signing bonus and another $3 million in salary over the first 2 years. The third year had a $4 million salary number and a $1 million roster bonus. Probably the closest thing to cash-over-cap the bengals have ever come, intentionally creating a massive $333k in dead money...props to Mikey!

I agree, props to Mikey. Webb was a very good bandaid player who stopped the bleeding at a critical position, and because that's true there's just no way in heck you're going to get me to criticize his contract simply because Mikey didn't assume more risk in regards to dead money. That's right, I said heck! In fact, in hindsight I'd say it was perfectly structured contract in regards to the circumstances. And as a bonus, that 5 million dollar price for Webb's 3rd year qualifies as an example of Mikey doing something you say he never does. And because it does perhaps I should win a free hat, ehhh?

Back to present day, I can't help noticing how one thing included in the Webb deal is comparable to the the Sharper contract. Specifically, the ridiculously small signing bonus paid that makes it possible for the team to cut the player without a second thought the moment it's determined he can't play anymore.

[Arizona]

My outside point of view on this: Boy, some of you kids have issues. Most of the rest of us see the Bengals as just another team now. You're not jokes, but you're also not an elite team. When Sharper signed with Seattle I thought, oh well, he's not coming home, and good thing he's not in our division.

Some a y'all need to chill.

[schweinhart]

When Sharper signed with Seattle I thought, oh well, he's not coming home, and good thing he's not in our division.

There's the whole point for me....Sharper is an impact player and other North teams are glad they can face the Bengals weak run D w/o Sharper there to make plays. Jamal would've ran away from Sharper.

How more no-brained could it have been for the Bengals to sign him at the price he went for?

[WillisXPress]

If you guys had let Houshmandskufgdah walk, and let Rudi walk, and were depending on Perry to carry the load I'd say yes, your FA sucked.

But you brought back those guys, and not just for a year, you managed to keep your offensive nucleus together for the next few years, theres alot to be said for that.

Unfoirtunatly that late december loss to the Bills...again...may keep you out of the postseason

[turningpoint]

no the only thing a late december loss to the bills will be is, a hope for you guys to still be in the playoffs, while we'll be 11-3

[BengalszoneBilly]

My outside point of view on this:  Boy, some of you kids have issues.  Most of the rest of us see the Bengals as just another team now.  You're not jokes, but  you're also not an elite team.  When Sharper signed with Seattle I thought, oh well, he's not coming home, and good thing he's not in our division.

Some a y'all need to chill.

Thanks for the outside perspective on reality as it actually exists outside of the Greater Cincinnati Panic Area.

...and whaddya mean we're not an elite team!?!

Lemme ask you this question then:

How many other teams in NFL history have gone 8-8 for TWO CONSECUTIVE SEASONS immediately after a run of over 10 PREVIOUS CONSECUTIVE SEASONS of never even reaching the plateau of .500!?!

Well Arizona...let me help you out with that answer:

THERE ARE NONE, NADA, ZILCH!! No other team in the NFL has ever duplicated what the Bengals have just pulled off in '03 and '04. I say that's pretty elite. What say you?

[WillisXPress]

no the only thing a late december loss to the bills will be is, a hope for you guys to still be in the playoffs, while we'll be 11-3

I don't know man, our schedule isn't that bad, aside from our divisional teams, but we get that every year.

[HairOnFire]

If you guys had let Houshmandskufgdah walk, and let Rudi walk, and were depending on Perry to carry the load I'd say yes, your FA sucked.

Seems to me that very strategy was loudly supported by many Bengal fans this offseason. Not surprisingly, most of those same fans are the ones who now have their collective heads in the oven. I guess that's fine, but the view from that vantage point can't be very good.