Guys Who Need to Step Up in 05'

[DontPushMe]

what are you talking about. his rushing skills are questioned cuz he makes too many mistakes in the backfield. i am still shocked how blind some of u are to his ability...i dont know how many times i wanted to throw my tv out a window when rudi had a huge hole and couldnt make a decision so he missed it.

awesome, finally another bengal fan who sees things the way they actually are, great post, i agree completely

this is how more people's opinions would be on RJ if you paid attention to his runs, rather then his stat sheets

[oldschooler]

what are you talking about.  his rushing skills are questioned cuz he makes too many mistakes in the backfield.  i am still shocked how blind some of u are to his ability...i dont know how many times i wanted to throw my tv out a window when rudi had a huge hole and couldnt make a decision so he missed it.

awesome, finally another bengal fan who sees things the way they actually are, great post, i agree completely

this is how more people's opinions would be on RJ if you paid attention to his runs, rather then his stat sheets

Rudi had 73 runs for 1st downs. (tied for 5th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=008&Submit=Go

He had 35 runs of 10 yards or more (tied for 6th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=069&Submit=Go

He averaged 4.7 yards a carry in the 4th quarter.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=080&Submit=Go

He averaged 5.5 yards per carry when he had 21+ carries.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=085&Submit=Go

He was tied for 8th in rushing TD`s.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=009&Submit=Go

He did all of that with a 1st year starting QB and a banged up

O-line while playing 11 games against top 10 Defenses...

How many times was Rudi hit in the backfield and managed to

at least make it to the line of scrimmage ?

Is it in YOU ?

Obviously

[Indycat]

well said oldschooler

[TJJackson]

Actually, I too lament the short kickoffs.....not trying to get anything started here though.

Was mulling whether the punter, who appears to have a nice leg, could be pressed into kickoff duty at least in the preseason to see if he can get it further downfield.

[San Antonio Bengal]

I seem to remember Shayne's sis mentioning that Shayne was planning on working on his kickoffs quite a bit during the offseason. Some longer kickoffs would be nice, but considering our coverage of the kickoffs, it wasn't like the opponent always started with great position. I don't remember the statistics exactly from last season, but I seem to remember us being in the middle of the pack when it came to opponents starting position after a kickoff. It wasn't great, but it also wasn't horrendous.

[TJJackson]

I agree with the fact that our kickoff coverage sorta offset our short kickoffs, but am also saying that it'd still be better if the kickoffs were longer :-)

Yeah, I know, it isn't the team's biggest problem, nor even in the top 5.

How do you know SG's sis?

[AGrizzlyBaer]

I agree with the fact that our kickoff coverage sorta offset our short kickoffs, but am also saying that it'd still be better if the kickoffs were longer :-)

Yeah, I know, it isn't the team's biggest problem, nor even in the top 5.

How do you know SG's sis?

she post on here bengalsis i think

[San Antonio Bengal]

Because she makes the occassional post here.

Want some serious kickoffs statistics from last year? Just take a look at her post from a couple months ago.

[jditty47]

what are you talking about.  his rushing skills are questioned cuz he makes too many mistakes in the backfield.  i am still shocked how blind some of u are to his ability...i dont know how many times i wanted to throw my tv out a window when rudi had a huge hole and couldnt make a decision so he missed it.

awesome, finally another bengal fan who sees things the way they actually are, great post, i agree completely

this is how more people's opinions would be on RJ if you paid attention to his runs, rather then his stat sheets

Rudi had 73 runs for 1st downs. (tied for 5th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=008&Submit=Go

He had 35 runs of 10 yards or more (tied for 6th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=069&Submit=Go

He averaged 4.7 yards a carry in the 4th quarter.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=080&Submit=Go

He averaged 5.5 yards per carry when he had 21+ carries.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=085&Submit=Go

He was tied for 8th in rushing TD`s.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=009&Submit=Go

He did all of that with a 1st year starting QB and a banged up

O-line while playing 11 games against top 10 Defenses...

How many times was Rudi hit in the backfield and managed to

at least make it to the line of scrimmage ?

Is it in YOU ?

Obviously

stats stats stats. DPM is right, all you guys do is look at stats. Yes we both admit he had good stats, great stats for the situation, but im sorry, id take at least 10 other running backs in this league in the same situation and we'd be in the playoffs last year.

[Kirkendall]

Why don't you judge Rudi with his new contract after the season?

[Whur CHad At?]

TRUE.

[oldschooler]

what are you talking about.  his rushing skills are questioned cuz he makes too many mistakes in the backfield.  i am still shocked how blind some of u are to his ability...i dont know how many times i wanted to throw my tv out a window when rudi had a huge hole and couldnt make a decision so he missed it.

awesome, finally another bengal fan who sees things the way they actually are, great post, i agree completely

this is how more people's opinions would be on RJ if you paid attention to his runs, rather then his stat sheets

Rudi had 73 runs for 1st downs. (tied for 5th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=008&Submit=Go

He had 35 runs of 10 yards or more (tied for 6th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=069&Submit=Go

He averaged 4.7 yards a carry in the 4th quarter.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=080&Submit=Go

He averaged 5.5 yards per carry when he had 21+ carries.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=085&Submit=Go

He was tied for 8th in rushing TD`s.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=009&Submit=Go

He did all of that with a 1st year starting QB and a banged up

O-line while playing 11 games against top 10 Defenses...

How many times was Rudi hit in the backfield and managed to

at least make it to the line of scrimmage ?

Is it in YOU ?

Obviously

stats stats stats. DPM is right, all you guys do is look at stats. Yes we both admit he had good stats, great stats for the situation, but im sorry, id take at least 10 other running backs in this league in the same situation and we'd be in the playoffs last year.

Well just because YOU would rather have some1

else does not take away from what he accomplished.

And I didn`t just post stats...I factored in that he was playing

with a QB that had never started a game , he was running behind a

VERY banged up O-line, he was missing the Bengals best blocking WR (Warrick),

and he played 11 games against top 10 defenses.

All of that PLUS his stats should make you think differently.

Unless you don`t take any of the above into account...

[DontPushMe]

what are you talking about.  his rushing skills are questioned cuz he makes too many mistakes in the backfield.  i am still shocked how blind some of u are to his ability...i dont know how many times i wanted to throw my tv out a window when rudi had a huge hole and couldnt make a decision so he missed it.

awesome, finally another bengal fan who sees things the way they actually are, great post, i agree completely

this is how more people's opinions would be on RJ if you paid attention to his runs, rather then his stat sheets

Rudi had 73 runs for 1st downs. (tied for 5th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=008&Submit=Go

He had 35 runs of 10 yards or more (tied for 6th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=069&Submit=Go

He averaged 4.7 yards a carry in the 4th quarter.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=080&Submit=Go

He averaged 5.5 yards per carry when he had 21+ carries.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=085&Submit=Go

He was tied for 8th in rushing TD`s.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=009&Submit=Go

He did all of that with a 1st year starting QB and a banged up

O-line while playing 11 games against top 10 Defenses...

How many times was Rudi hit in the backfield and managed to

at least make it to the line of scrimmage ?

Is it in YOU ?

Obviously

lol, thanks for proving my point for me, i say all you guys do is look at stats, and you respond with a huge list of them

stats can be manipulated easily, like how he only averaged over 4ypc (the most important stat for a RB) 5 times, and our record was 2-3 in those games, or check his first half stats, usually at the end of the first half he has something like 15 carries for 35 yards, then he breaks off a couple midsized ones in the 2nd half to inflate the stats for people like you

now go watch some game tape, see him get stuffed on 3rd and 1, or 4th and 1, see a big hole open up outside, but him not being fast enough to get to it, so he runs into his offensive linemen instead and gains 1 yard, see him get run down from behind by linebackers, then take comfort in his stats

[HoosierCat]

Good list, jj. I'll take a crack at it...

1.  Was resigning Rudi and TJ the right thing to do?

TJ yes, Rudi no. Plenty will disagree but I would rather have used that money on defense.

2.  Is the lack of outside FA's going to haunt them?

Yup. Wishin'-hopin'-prayin' ain't gonna get this team into the playoffs.

3.  Is Chuck Breshnahan the guy?

I'm sure Chuck will do fine. But whether he'll have any more talent to work with than Frazier remains to be seen.

4.  Will the alternate camp schedule be beneficial?

I'd say yes. I'd rather have a team that's healthy but perhaps still working out the offseason kinks in week 1 or 2 than one with a mile-long injury list and a bunch of players on IR before we even get to Cleveland.

5.  How many of Marvin's picks (2003 and even 2004) will get

bumped by the new draft picks.  At some point some of Marvin's guys will be cut.

Of the "major" guys (4th round or higher), Jeremi Johnson and Kelley Washington are the two most likely candidates, IMHO. Washington will hang on, I think. JJ...shrug...dunno.

6.  Is there something brewing for draft day?

I don't think so. An opportunity may come up, but the consensus seems to be that the 2nd-4th rounds are where you want to be. Everyone seems to be looking to trade down.

7.  Will there be anyone available after June 1 (see Darryl Gardner)?

The June 1 cuts ain't what they used to be...if they ever were. I don't look for much help there, if any. If by some wild chance a big name does shake free, the front office's insistence on their style of contract structure or the highway ensures that the FA in question will take the highway.

8.  Can this team stop the run consistently?

They couldn't last year...defensive changes have been minimal...so at this point I'd say the answer's still no.

9.  He has gotten us out of the "Pit of Dispair".  However, can he take them to the next level?

Depends on what you mean by "the next level." The sked is friendlier than last year and Palmer's had his baptism of fire, so we won't have to suffer through his learning curve. So yeah, they could break that streak of non-winning seasons. But I'd bet it will take 11 wins, and maybe 12, to win the AFCN. Wild card? Could happen too...but your chances of going all the way in that case are remote.

[HairOnFire]

stats stats stats. DPM is right, all you guys do is look at stats. Yes we both admit he had good stats, great stats for the situation, but im sorry, id take at least 10 other running backs in this league in the same situation and we'd be in the playoffs last year.

Is Chris Perry one of the ten running backs you think could have gotten the Bengals to the playoffs last season?

Lamont Jordan?

Sorry, I know it's wrong but I can't help laughing at this offseasons favorite flight of fan fancy.

We could get this guy. (No you can't.)

We could get that guy. (No you can't.)

Well, we could trade for somebody. (Stop it.)

We'll make Rudi come crawling back before offering him peanuts. (Oh my.)

Perry is better than Rudi. (But don't ask him to prove it, right?)

Perry isn't fragile. (He's brittle. Big difference.)

He's not as good as Corey. (Rudi says...I'll shatter that.)

But I miss Corey! (I think it's naptime for the little man.)

With all due respect, who gives a crap how many other running backs you or DPM would take if given the chance. You don't get the chance because most of the names you'd pick are under contract with other teams or franchise tagged. So instead, you get to root for Rudi, the best option this team has had for two seasons in a row and a guy you admit PRODUCED great stats for the situation he played in.

Grrrr.

However, I agree with you that stats never tell the whole story. In fact, I'd argue that Rudi deserves FAR more respect from Bengal fans than his stats suggest, and anyone who disagrees can now line up behind Pushy.

I'll try not to laugh too hard. (I don't like my chances.)

[oldschooler]

what are you talking about.  his rushing skills are questioned cuz he makes too many mistakes in the backfield.  i am still shocked how blind some of u are to his ability...i dont know how many times i wanted to throw my tv out a window when rudi had a huge hole and couldnt make a decision so he missed it.

awesome, finally another bengal fan who sees things the way they actually are, great post, i agree completely

this is how more people's opinions would be on RJ if you paid attention to his runs, rather then his stat sheets

Rudi had 73 runs for 1st downs. (tied for 5th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=008&Submit=Go

He had 35 runs of 10 yards or more (tied for 6th)

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=069&Submit=Go

He averaged 4.7 yards a carry in the 4th quarter.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=080&Submit=Go

He averaged 5.5 yards per carry when he had 21+ carries.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=085&Submit=Go

He was tied for 8th in rushing TD`s.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leader...k=009&Submit=Go

He did all of that with a 1st year starting QB and a banged up

O-line while playing 11 games against top 10 Defenses...

How many times was Rudi hit in the backfield and managed to

at least make it to the line of scrimmage ?

Is it in YOU ?

Obviously

lol, thanks for proving my point for me, i say all you guys do is look at stats, and you respond with a huge list of them

stats can be manipulated easily, like how he only averaged over 4ypc (the most important stat for a RB) 5 times, and our record was 2-3 in those games, or check his first half stats, usually at the end of the first half he has something like 15 carries for 35 yards, then he breaks off a couple midsized ones in the 2nd half to inflate the stats for people like you

now go watch some game tape, see him get stuffed on 3rd and 1, or 4th and 1, see a big hole open up outside, but him not being fast enough to get to it, so he runs into his offensive linemen instead and gains 1 yard, see him get run down from behind by linebackers, then take comfort in his stats

He tied Dillon`s record for most 100 yard games

in a season...plus he had 95 yards against Dallas, 89

against the Pats, and 99 against the Eagles.

They didn`t have any1 else to had the ball to...

so he broke the frachise record for carries in a season

and he had LESS fumbles than Dillon did and scored MORE

TD`s than Dillon EVER did as a Bengal....

Rudi averaged 1 fumble for every 90.25 carries.

Dillon averaged 1 fumble for every 69 carries with a

Super Bowl MVP as his QB.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094/splits/2004

Oh and you want to talk about avg yards per carry ?

Dillon`s last 3 years as a Bengal

2001: 3.9 yards per carry

2002: 4.2 yards per carry

2003: 3.9 yards per carry

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1681

But for some reason you keep lapping on his man bag ...

[oldschooler]

stats stats stats.  DPM is right, all you guys do is look at stats.  Yes we both admit he had good stats, great stats for the situation, but im sorry, id take at least 10 other running backs in this league in the same situation and we'd be in the playoffs last year.

Is Chris Perry one of the ten running backs you think could have gotten the Bengals to the playoffs last season?

Lamont Jordan?

Sorry, I know it's wrong but I can't help laughing at this offseasons favorite flight of fan fancy.

We could get this guy. (No you can't.)

We could get that guy. (No you can't.)

Well, we could trade for somebody. (Stop it.)

We'll make Rudi come crawling back before offering him peanuts. (Oh my.)

Perry is better than Rudi. (But don't ask him to prove it, right?)

Perry isn't fragile. (He's brittle. Big difference.)

He's not as good as Corey. (Rudi says...I'll shatter that.)

But I miss Corey! (I think it's naptime for the little man.)

With all due respect, who gives a crap how many other running backs you or DPM would take if given the chance. You don't get the chance because most of the names you'd pick are under contract with other teams or franchise tagged. So instead, you get to root for Rudi, the best option this team has had for two seasons in a row and a guy you admit PRODUCED great stats for the situation he played in.

Grrrr.

However, I agree with you that stats never tell the whole story. In fact, I'd argue that Rudi deserves FAR more respect from Bengal fans than his stats suggest, and anyone who disagrees can now line up behind Pushy.

I'll try not to laugh too hard. (I don't like my chances.)

Bravo !

[Messenger Guard]

1) J. Johnson

2) B. Williams

Rudi hits the hole hard and by all reports always hits the right hole. Let's make sure the hole is there so we don't get stuffed on third and 1.

3) B. Simmons

Coach says it isn't the center of the line but the inability to make the tackle on the outside that is the major run defense problem. Fullback TD by the Titans sure looked to be Simmons man and that just killed the season in a game we had to win.

4) K. Washington

I was excited two years ago because half the draft sites had Washington as a late first rounder. Supposedly he dropped for the neck worry. Sure hasn't played like a first rounder.

5) M. Schobel

Traded up to get him. Two big catches to win games the last two years. Needs to be a presence every game, not just occasionally.

[DontPushMe]

He tied Dillon`s record for most 100 yard games

in a season...plus he had 95 yards against Dallas, 89

against the Pats, and 99 against the Eagles.

They didn`t have any1 else to had the ball to...

so he broke the frachise record for carries in a season

and he had LESS fumbles than Dillon did and scored MORE

TD`s than Dillon EVER did as a Bengal....

Rudi averaged 1 fumble for every 90.25 carries.

Dillon averaged 1 fumble for every 69 carries with a

Super Bowl MVP as his QB.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094/splits/2004

Oh and you want to talk about avg yards per carry ?

Dillon`s last 3 years as a Bengal

2001: 3.9 yards per carry

2002: 4.2 yards per carry

2003: 3.9 yards per carry

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1681

But for some reason you keep lapping on his man bag ...

The offense RJ got to play with the past 2 years were far better then anything CD ever got when playing here. And in 03 dillon was injured most of the year. Stop acting like RJ is even close to CD's equal before you embarrass yourself.

And no, RJ didnt tie DILLON's record for 100 yard games, he tied the bengals record. Dillon's personal record, 10, is far out of RJ's reach.

[shatan]

i'm probably gonna get alot of slack for this one, but chad johnson (the best hands on the team) needs to not fall down when he catches the ball. he catches anything that comes near him, and then falls down. if he can improve on the yak, he could easily get 20 td's.

[BengalszoneBilly]

i'm probably gonna get alot of slack for this one, but chad johnson (the best hands on the team) needs to not fall down when he catches the ball. he catches anything that comes near him, and then falls down. if he can improve on the yak, he could easily get 20 td's.

Don't you mean you may get alot of "flak" about your comment on Chad falling down less after the catch? I don't think so. We'll most likely cut you some "slack" on your comment because you've got a point here. Chad does seem to lose balance or control many times while making catches, and ends up not getting the big gain out of it if he had also kept on his feet.

Still...I'd rather he catch the ball and fall down every time instead of the alternative where he kept his feet under him all the time, never tripped, stumbled, or was knocked down, but had hands of stone and dropped most passes thrown to him. That would make me insane!!

[oldschooler]

He tied Dillon`s record for most 100 yard games

in a season...plus he had 95 yards against Dallas, 89

against the Pats, and 99 against the Eagles.

They didn`t have any1 else to had the ball to...

so he broke the frachise record for carries in a season

and he had LESS fumbles than Dillon did and scored MORE

TD`s than Dillon EVER did as a Bengal....

Rudi averaged 1 fumble for every 90.25 carries.

Dillon averaged 1 fumble for every 69 carries with a

Super Bowl MVP as his QB.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235094/splits/2004

Oh and you want to talk about avg yards per carry ?

Dillon`s last 3 years as a Bengal

2001: 3.9 yards per carry

2002: 4.2 yards per carry

2003: 3.9 yards per carry

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1681

But for some reason you keep lapping on his man bag ...

The offense RJ got to play with the past 2 years were far better then anything CD ever got when playing here. And in 03 dillon was injured most of the year. Stop acting like RJ is even close to CD's equal before you embarrass yourself.

Last post to the Rudi vs Dillon hi-jack.

The Bengals had the 18th ranked Offense this year.

They had the 18th ranked Offense in 2002 too.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=4

Gross yardage

2001: yards passing 3291 | rushing 1712

(312 yards a game)

http://www.bengals.com/team/pdfs/2001.pdf

2002: yards passing 3732 | rushing 1730

(341 yards a game)

http://www.bengals.com/team/pdfs/2002.pdf

2003: yards passing 3591 | rushing 1967 (Rudi had the majority)

(347 yards a game)

http://www.bengals.com/team/pdfs/2003.pdf

2004: yards passing 3520 | yards rushing 1839

(334 yards a game)

http://www.bengals.com/team/pdfs/2004.pdf

Looks to me like they averaged about the same yards per game

but had more passing yards and less rushing yards when Dillon was the RB.

Anyway in Rudi`s 21 starts he has 2478 yards and 21 TD`s.

Dillon after 21 starts had 2259 yards and 14 TD`s.

Rudi has 4 fumbles in 593 carries = 1 fumble every 148.25 carries.

Dillon has 25 fumbles in 2210 carries = 1 fumbles every 88.4 carries.

And no, RJ didnt tie DILLON's record for 100 yard games, he tied the bengals record. Dillon's personal record, 10, is far out of RJ's reach.

[oldschooler]

I'd like to add Shayne Graham to the list. Its time for him to start kicking more touchbacks.

He heard you ....

Graham going for distance

Improving kickoffs Bengal's goal

By Mark Curnutte

Enquirer staff writer

Shayne Graham has made 81 consecutive extra-point attempts with the Bengals and has missed just seven of 56 field-goal tries.

Though his accuracy is among the league's best, the fifth-year NFL kicker is not satisfied with his overall performance.

Since the end of the season and now into the team's offseason strength and conditioning program, Graham has adjusted his training regimen in order to increase the depth of his kickoffs. He's adding more muscle to his 6-foot, 197-pound frame.

"I'm going more into core-intensive training," Graham said. "Last year, my leg strength wasn't the reason I wasn't kicking off well. I'm still making 50-yarders with plenty of leg to spare.

"But it came down on kickoffs to core strength, below your chest and above your knees, your hip area. The kickoff is such an aggressive all-out movement, and I didn't have abdominal and hip strength. I wasn't giving my body a chance to reach my full potential."

Like a pitcher in baseball throwing more on the sidelines and between games, Graham also has been doing more repetitions on kickoffs.

"Last year, I tried to take too much of a break because I didn't want to overuse my leg," he said. "I didn't want to overkick in the offseason. This year I'm taking that chance. I did put work into it last year, but not near enough."

The Bengals tied for eighth in the 16-team AFC in 2004 in average drive start allowed, at the 28.5-yard line. In 78 adjusted kickoffs - not counting onside kickoffs or kickoffs at the end of a half - the Bengals held opponents to 11 drive starts inside the 20-yard line.

Still, Graham had just two touchbacks in 2004, leaving the Bengals tied with San Diego for the fewest in the AFC.

"The shot to the pride last year was when I was kicking off and it was not going near where it should go. It was embarrassing," he said.

Graham is entering the second season of a five-year contract that pays him $3 million guaranteed in split signing bonuses.

"I'm getting paid a lot of money here, too," he said. "The field-goal accuracy was still there this year, but I've got to help our coverage teams out this year."

He has a reminder in his home office, a clipping from The Sporting News about his short kickoffs.

"It's a knock-off on my kickoffs," he said. "I've got it clipped to my bulletin board. It's more people noticing that my kickoffs weren't very good, not just me and the team. It's pride and professionalism. But I'm also kind of an anal-retentive perfectionist. I hate coming in the locker room, even through I made my field goals and extra points, knowing that my kickoffs were short.

"I'm going to sacrifice a few more bags of ice this year for my leg to make sure I get it there."

E-mail mcurnutte@enquirer.com

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../504150424/1066

[BengalszoneBilly]

Last post to the Rudi vs Dillon hi-jack.

The way folks look at it here, if the thread ain't worth hi-jacking, then it ain't worth posting in PERIOD!!

[schweinhart]

I'll hijack it back

5 players who got to crank it up.

1. Robert Geathers.

2. John Thornton

3. Bryan Robinson

4. Kevin Hardy

5. Justin Smith