redsfan2 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Whatever...look at the Raiders D now Hey, don't blame me, I'm just the messenger.I do have to say that, if they're hanging Frazier's non-return on his failure to improve the run D (which Hobson notes is the only thing that didn't improve this past season) I'm not positive how Chuck's supposed to help. In his four seasons as DC (2000-03 inclusive) the Raiders run D ranked (in yards) 5th, 22nd, 3rd, and 32nd. Not exactly the kind of consistency one would attribute to good coaching, eh? Pretty drastic range there no matter how you look at it ......... Massive injuries ?????? Intervention by the head coach or Owner ( not that he would ) ????? Pretty hard to get a handle on that type of situation without knowing all the contributing factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Honestly, I was just poking fun. I really know very little about Chuck and whether or not he would do a good job. I will say, though, that I trust Marvin on this one...he knows what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Stripes Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 i dont like it. i think frazier was gettin this d somewhere we improved to 19th overall and with rookies playing all over the field. i expected brat to be gone before frazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I didn't like it at first either tigerstripes, but if Marvin says he's gone, I'm with Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Some thoughts from Raiders fans on Bresnahan from the f2f alliance Raiders site:http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25663They seem to feel that we should avoid chuck at all costs... Not a single person over there had anything good to say about this guy.Here are a few quotes...God help them.No one deserves up-Chuck...not even Denver.welcome to prevent defenseI still have nightmares of this a**h***...Wow ! Are the Bengals insane ?Expect the prevent defense and poor decision/play making at the end of games...managing the defense very poorly in close games in the 4th q.Expect questionable situational calls and decisions in key situations...Expect a team that isnt disciplined etc... on defense!!!Poor fundamentals...Thats what we had!!!!!Welcome to the Prevent Defense ???WTF ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 No matter who the Dcoordinator is, I don't see Marvin's team playing undisciplined football and he listens to all the calls and interjects when he wants to. Sounds like to me a bunch of bitter raider fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 No matter who the Dcoordinator is, I don't see Marvin's team playing undisciplined football and he listens to all the calls and interjects when he wants to. Sounds like to me a bunch of bitter raider fans I sure Hope that you are right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 me too, bigtime because I was caught a little off gaurd on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 No matter who the Dcoordinator is, I don't see Marvin's team playing undisciplined football and he listens to all the calls and interjects when he wants to. Sounds like to me a bunch of bitter raider fans This move has Marvin's stamp all over it. You really think he is gonna bring in D-Coordinator who will not be in exact step with his philosophy? Apparently Leslie wasn't, and now Leslie is gone.For what it's worth, Wade Phillips is the D-Coordinator in SD. And he is being lauded again. After being run out of his last few ports of call. Sometimes styles fit elsewhere when the message runs out in a previous stop. Some of those Bresnahan Ds in Oakland were pretty stout. And, again, if it's Bresnahan, expect even more ML input on the D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 With what he did in Baltimore, I'll take as much D input from marvin as they'll allow. But I agree. I actually think the D coordinator job will be nothing more than a figurehead next year. Marvin is sick of his D being mediocre at best and he wants to win at any cost so I see a TON of input on the defense next year by our lord savior Marvin Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 The differences in his production ( Bresnahan as DC for the Raiders ) up one year down the next Up one year and down the next again, might also show blame to something else. Free Agency. It would be very interesting to see how well Oakland drafted defensively during that time 2000-2003.Interesting tidbits of who's who from that time...1. Phillip Buchanon CB , Miami Fla. - pretty solid young corner - upset at the Raiders predicament.2. Some real reaches with Asomugha and Tyler Brayton in '03. -- Looks like '02 was his only productive draft... Buchanon and Napoleon Harris. '00 was all but a wash. The same as '01.'03 had a lot of reaches, so I'm just gonna pray that He's a better game planner than talent judge !* We need some Candidates !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubThumper Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I wish Frazier all the success in the world. I thought he generally did a very good job with guiding the young players through the transition process and dealing with the injury situation. Even with the periodic breakdowns and not so impressive statistical performance, the defense was resilient and opportunistic and toward the end of the year impressed a lot of people.BUT.........the offense saved them in the second Cleveland game, which if they'd lost would have had me hollering "CLEAN HOUSE." And, somebody had to go after the Bills game - not for that reason alone, but it was a sign that if players' heads didn't roll, coaches' heads needed to. That wouldn't be true if the goal was mediocrity, but since the goal is championship football somebody's got to be accountable. I have a bit of a hard time with blaming Frazier though - the defense most of the time played well enough to win, and I blame some of the veteran players more than I do any of the coaches for the break downs. But, then again, if there's an accountability angle here, it probably is just a secondary issue. I think that it's more what's been written - a conflict in personalities and philosophies. I have to give Marvin Lewis the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he's doing at this point, but on a personal level, I think I hold Frazier in a little warmer regard right now. I hope it works out for everyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Interesting tidbits of who's who from that time...1. Phillip Buchanon CB , Miami Fla. - pretty solid young corner - upset at the Raiders predicament.2. Some real reaches with Asomugha and Tyler Brayton in '03. -- Looks like '02 was his only productive draft... Buchanon and Napoleon Harris. '00 was all but a wash. The same as '01.'03 had a lot of reaches, so I'm just gonna pray that He's a better game planner than talent judge !* We need some Candidates !!! Rest assured that Marvin and the Tobins etc..., will have final say, and more input, on the defensive players drafted, than any def coordinator.I am not too worried about that part of things, Al Davis runs his ship with a meddling hand as well, it's hard to say who was responsible for the talent scouting/selections there.All I know is the guy helped take a team to the SuperBowl with all those bad picks so he must've been doing something right.He's big on fundamentals (tackling) and discipline and is a former military and Belichick guy. He will be a noticeable upgrade to Frazier. Now the question is whether he'll want his own assistants or not as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoDey93285 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 It said on the ESPN bottomline the Leslie Frazier has been fired. It said in the paper yesterday that he was expected to come back. Who do you think will replace him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 We've already got a thread on this.. http://forums.bengalszone.com/index.php?showtopic=4144 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucktkd Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Down goes Frazier!! Down goes Frazier!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 He will be a noticeable upgrade to Frazier. Now the question is whether he'll want his own assistants or not as well.Good question. I suspect he will. Tho since he's had a year here he may want to retain the services of some current assistants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Good question. I suspect he will. Tho since he's had a year here he may want to retain the services of some current assistants. Yeah if I remember correctly, didn't Marvin bring in guys like Hunley himself though? Frazier didn't seem too happy about leaving at all, and was a bit miffed by it obviously, so you wonder if anyone else will follow. Whomever is responsible for the way the DB's have improved this year, stays I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 congrats to zampese...we'll be fine without him. carson had 2 yrs with him and they'll get someone else to help him out even more. Bengals.com mentioned that Zampese was not on Lovie Smith's "short list" after all. I heard on TV that Norv Turner's brother (don't remember the first name) was the top candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Good question. I suspect he will. Tho since he's had a year here he may want to retain the services of some current assistants.Yeah if I remember correctly, didn't Marvin bring in guys like Hunley himself though? Frazier didn't seem too happy about leaving at all, and was a bit miffed by it obviously, so you wonder if anyone else will follow. Whomever is responsible for the way the DB's have improved this year, stays I hope. The Defensive backs improved..??? * We're gonna have to agree to disagree, I think the talent level is better, but the scheme to keep having them play off WR's gave up a lot of time,field, and scoring that should have been avoided by simple more aggressive game planning.Ray Lewis said it best... " Defense doesn't dictate what happens, The offense dictates. The Defense can only react, but when you do certain things so well, it limits the offense to what they can do, and when you have them in that situation, you're a great defense, because now, you dictate to the offense what plays you'll let them run before they have to give the ball back to your offense ! " -NFL FILMS-When 100 yards rushing is an accomplishment for an opposing teams offense, THEN I'll say we're pretty good at stopping the run.-When teams are afraid to challenge us down the middle of the field on third and longs, or go for it on 4th down simply because they're on our side of the 50, then I'll say the DB's have improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 congrats to zampese...we'll be fine without him. carson had 2 yrs with him and they'll get someone else to help him out even more.Bengals.com mentioned that Zampese was not on Lovie Smith's "short list" after all. I heard on TV that Norv Turner's brother (don't remember the first name) was the top candidate. Another Chicago paper mentions Ron Turner and Zampese as the candidates by name.But if Zampese can't talk unless he gets permission then I guess he can't do an Alex Wood until the light goes green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 congrats to zampese...we'll be fine without him. carson had 2 yrs with him and they'll get someone else to help him out even more.Bengals.com mentioned that Zampese was not on Lovie Smith's "short list" after all. I heard on TV that Norv Turner's brother (don't remember the first name) was the top candidate. Another Chicago paper mentions Ron Turner and Zampese as the candidates by name.But if Zampese can't talk unless he gets permission then I guess he can't do an Alex Wood until the light goes green. On that note, there's a report over at profootballtalk.com that Marv Levy has called the bears about the job... ...isn't he like 90? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 If Old Man Marv is coming back for more, he should look no further than Bills because their offense is crap.As we all know, The Bills Suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 If Old Man Marv is coming back for more, he should look no further than Bills because their offense is crap.As we all know, The Bills Suck Is Bruce Smith still playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfItsBrownFlushItDown Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Some thoughts from Raiders fans on Bresnahan from the f2f alliance Raiders site:http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25663They seem to feel that we should avoid chuck at all costs... What gets me is that when we first got him, they said it was a bad move letting him go like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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