The Brew Man Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Got this from Lance McAllisters site, take a look.Just out of curiosity, I compiled the Sunday stats on all the middle linebackers in the NFL......realizing tackles are not the final determination of how good a game a LB had.I did not include teams that run a 3-4.....only 4-3's with a true MLB.Total tackles Sunday (Solo+assists)14-Cowart, Jets, +fumble recovery13-Peterson, Jags13-Thomas, Dolphins13-Quarles, TB11-Watson, Saints10-Urlacher, Bears9-Sharper, Texans9-Lewis, Giants, +sack8-Nguyen, Cowboys7-Fletcher, Bills, +sack7-Pierce, Redskins, +interception, pass defended6-Wilson, Broncos, +2 passes defended6-Davis, Browns,+interception, pass defended6-Thomas, Rams5-Simoneau, Eagles, +sack, pass defended5-Holmes, Lions, +pass defended5-Beisel, Chiefs, +interception, pass defended4-Morris, Colts4-Henderson, Vikings3-McKinnon, Cardinals3-WEBSTER, BENGALS2-Draft, Falcons1-Huff, Seahawks, +fumble recoveryNate was tied for 20th out of 23 middle linebackers in tackles Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I haven't given up on Webster yet, but those stats sure do make you worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kybengalsfan Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 If I remember correctly, his two tackles were no where close to the line of scrimmage. True? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Damn. Just three lousy tackles in a game where the oppositions running game through the Bengals line was steady through out the match is indeed a poor statement. Where was he...on break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I haven't given up on Webster yet, but those stats sure do make you worry.Well, you could hope a guy the coach has openly compared to Ray Lewis would be a more disruptive force; Webster was virtually invisible yesterday. That said, it's hard to make tackles when the other team is running most of its plays away from you. Not that I think they were scared of Nate or anything, but it's clear from the tackles-assists-sacks breakdown that they were hell-bent on attacking the rooks:Herring 9-2-0, M.Williams 8-1-0, L.Johnson 6-3-0, James 5-0-0, J.Smith 4-1-0, Hardy 2-2-0, Webster 2-1-0, Thornton 2-1-0, T.Williams 2-0-0, Kaesviharn 2-0-0, Roberts 2-0-0, Walter 2-0-0, Miller 1-1-0, Powell 1-1-0, Watson 1-0-0, Clemons 1-0-0, Beckett 1-0-0, Myles 1-0-0, Wilkins 1-0-0, Bauman 1-0-0, Houshmandzadeh 1-0-0, Stewart 0-1-0, team 0-0-1. I want to see what happens when we get all our starters in at LB and CB before I start calling for anyone's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skilly McRailnob Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Agreed, JoiseyCat.Seems like most of Martin's yards were on sweeps to the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Seems like most of Martin's yards were on sweeps to the outside.Martin ran outside faster than a kid just getting home from school! That responsibility falls more directly on DE's, RLB's, and LLB's. Sunday it just didn't matter though.The entire Bengal defense, not just Webster, looked bad yesterday. You can bet, Coach Lewis will be making a point of that when they review film and practice this week. Hopefully with all starters healthy, on offense and defense.BengalBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Agreed, JoiseyCat.Seems like most of Martin's yards were on sweeps to the outside. That's where he broke his big runs, outside, specifically on the left side. He had 74 yards on just 5 carries going left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Anyone notice how quickly Webster was blocked, or how he dove at the feet of o-linemen during sweeps, or diving when he should have broke down at ball carriers? Stats aside, I watched him a lot during the game, and he didn't do one thing that had me thinking, well I'm certainly glad we picked him up.First impression, not good. Hopefully he turns around into a decent MLB. I want to see what happens when we get all our starters in at LB and CB before I start calling for anyone's head.I agree. But I'm also in the school that the MLB is the leader of the defense. He's supposed to make big plays, no matter what's around him, contribute to momentum change, etc.. he didn't really factor in against the Jets running at him or using his "speed" to track down players running sweeps. He also missed quite a few tackles he should have had.But it's just another story of "wait and see" so I guess I'll play along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Im sorry but the outside backers did WAY WORSE of a job than the middle backer. Did they run up the gut all game long? NO. They ran outside all game long. Our outside backers, Hardy, Johnson, Miller need to get their heads out of their asses fight off a block or get around a gd block for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brew Man Posted September 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Im sorry but the outside backers did WAY WORSE of a job than the middle backer. Did they run up the gut all game long? NO. They ran outside all game long. Our outside backers, Hardy, Johnson, Miller need to get their heads out of their asses fight off a block or get around a gd block for a change. Runs to the left vs Bengals right side: (Justin, Caleb, Landon) 8 carries 84 yards, 10.5 yards perRuns up the middle: (Thornton, Williams, Nate) 14 carries 73 yards, 5.2 yards perRuns to the right vs Bengals left side: (Clemons, Hardy)) 7 carries 49 yards, 7.0 yards perThe actual stats......and post #1000..... :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 The real telling stat, I think, is that aside from Pennington's two kneel-down snaps to end the game, the Jets did not lose yardage on a single rush. Not one. 30 rushes and all of them made at least one yard.I remember talking about Webster in the offseason and many people here expressed concern that he wouldn't succeed unless the d-line could win the war in the trenches and free him to make plays. Yesterday the Jets o-line blew us off the line of scrimmage regularly.Marvin can talk all he wants about speed and athleticism, I'm with Kirk: give me a 350-lb. tub of goo with a bad attitude. :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Bengal Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I'm with Kirk: give me a 350-lb. tub of goo with a bad attitude. :player: I thought we cut Oliver Gibson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Runs to the left vs Bengals right side: (Justin, Caleb, Landon) 8 carries 84 yards, 10.5 yards perRuns up the middle: (Thornton, Williams, Nate) 14 carries 73 yards, 5.2 yards perRuns to the right vs Bengals left side: (Clemons, Hardy)) 7 carries 49 yards, 7.0 yards perThe actual stats......and post #1000..... :player: Congrats...And the stats say....Everybody sucked. Some more than others, but they all sucked. The scariest part of it all was the fact they were able to get away with running at Justin....But then they just needed to keep him occupied long enough to exploit the rookies....But it's good for the rookies to get the experiance in week 1 instead of having to come in say week 16 or week 17 with a playoff spot on the line and they make those mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 The scariest part of it all was the fact they were able to get away with running at Justin....But then they just needed to keep him occupied long enough to exploit the rookies.... I'm pretty sure I saw Justin on both the right and left sides during the game...or maybe I was just seeing double because of all the beers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABengalsFan09 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I do remember while watching the game, a few times the outside backer and Webster were matched up against one O-lineman w/ Martin trailing and the outside backer would fight inside losing contain and allowing the blocker to take on both players to give Martin a huge whole. Now, if the outside backer fights to the outside and keeps contain, he drives the play back to the flow of pursuit which many times was an awaiting Nate Webster. 2 glaring things need to be shored befoe Miami or Lamar Gordon will look like Ricky Williams. OLB's need to keep contain, and defensive lineman need to beat a block for once or the final score will look like the last time the Bengals played on a Sunday night. Maybe this will be a nice learning experience for the rookies, now they've had a taste of the real thing and they can contineu to grow into some elite playmakers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Now, if the outside backer fights to the outside and keeps contain, he drives the play back to the flow of pursuit which many times was an awaiting Nate Webster.Good point. Websters small stats doesn't concern me because as Joisey and someone pointed out earlier, they were running away from Webster. My problem with Webster is how he played which wasn't consistent. He was way over-agressive and has horrible form and technique. I really hope he does better the rest of the season, because his fired up attitude is the type that could fire up the team and lead the defensive charge... however, he first needs to work on himself before leading anything on the field. and defensive lineman need to beat a block for once or the final score will look like the last time the Bengals played on a Sunday night.I'm actually on the opposite school of thought. I think the defensive line needs to clog holes and hold up o-linemen so the LBs can roam a little free and perhaps give Webster a second to break down. This is why, as Joisey brilliantly pointed out, we need two 350lbs linemen with an attitude. But it's good for the rookies to get the experiance in week 1 instead of having to come in say week 16 or week 17 with a playoff spot on the line and they make those mistakes.Yea, good point Kev.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kybengalsfan Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 You guys may not agree with me, but I believe it was a mistake to let Glenn Steele go. While only a part-time player, it seems like he made some key tackles in years past. I'd much rather have him than Webster. Adrian Ross is looking real good right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Did you guys see the article about Webster on bengals.com this morning? Interesting fact that the Bengals tape showed him with 7 tackles, instead of 3. Still not satisfactory, but I've never really given thought to inaccuracies in tackling statistics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shworge Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Actually the most amazing stat I've heard came from Lapham last night on Bengals Line. He said the average rush BEFORE contact was 6.4 yards. Our defensive line did a horrible job of occupying blockers and letting the linebackers roam free. The Jets O-line was consistenly in our second level.Absolutely ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Poor coaching + no talent = bad defense. Hardy sucks, Webster sucks, Miller is an overrated rook who needs to get stronger, the whole d-line is a piece of dung. The Db's are just as sorry and everyone is hurt.While they'll certainly have much better games and even have some promising ones here and there possibly, Marvin needs to get off the schnide and start replacing every veteran he has on this defense one by one this off season and pick up some impact players - and for God's sakes fire Leslie Frasier and Hunley - they are absolutely the worst defensive coaches bar none in the NFL.Why does Mike Brown force his coaches to take offensive skill players with the 1st pick or two every single year? DRAFT DEFENSE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBobNC Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Why does Mike Brown force his coaches to take offensive skill players with the 1st pick or two every single year? DRAFT DEFENSE!!!Hmmmm.....Big Daddy (Big Bust) Wilkenson was drafted in the first round. As was Takeo Spikes, Brian Simmons, and other LBs whose names I can't remember right this second.Poor coaching + no talent = bad defense.It was one game. Give them a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Why does Mike Brown force his coaches to take offensive skill players with the 1st pick or two every single year? DRAFT DEFENSE!!!Hmmmm.....Big Daddy (Big Bust) Wilkenson was drafted in the first round. As was Takeo Spikes, Brian Simmons, and other LBs whose names I can't remember right this second. Keiwan Ratliff was taken with one of the first two picks this year as well...And while we're at it, Williams was in the second round even though he wasn't our official 2nd pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Well, let's see, Paul Brown died in 1991, so what's been the breakdown with Mikey in charge from 1992 on? 15 total 1st round picks, 7 on defense, 8 on offense.No, we never take defensive players Poor coaching + no talent = bad defense. Yeah, you know, you're right. Hell, Marvin and Frazier only took this team from 2-14 to 8-8 in one year, now they lost an away game by a TD -- the team's best opening day performance in years, BTW -- let's chuck 'em. They just suck. Hey, how about this equation: 4 new defensive starters (inc. 2 rookies due to injuries) + 1st game = defensive struggles? Nah, that couldn't be it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black'n'Orange Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Well, let's see, Paul Brown died in 1991, so what's been the breakdown with Mikey in charge from 1992 on? 15 total 1st round picks, 7 on defense, 8 on offense.No, we never take defensive players Poor coaching + no talent = bad defense. Yeah, you know, you're right. Hell, Marvin and Frazier only took this team from 2-14 to 8-8 in one year, now they lost an away game by a TD -- the team's best opening day performance in years, BTW -- let's chuck 'em. They just suck. Hey, how about this equation: 4 new defensive starters (inc. 2 rookies due to injuries) + 1st game = defensive struggles? Nah, that couldn't be it... Good post JoiseyIt's a little to early to be trashing our rookies. FA may or may not come along. So, far i'm not impressed. As far as the coaching goes...they definately were not ready Sunday. Heads should roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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