2025 FA Thread | Rehkow 2y/2m | Rankins Cut

[ArmyBengal]

It seemed like Pratt wasn't there at times last season despite it being one of his most productive.
He set a new career mark with 143 total tackles and his second best season in passes defended.
He's had two INT's each season for the past 3 and got to the QB more last season than any before.

My biggest concern with Pratt leaving is, who replaces him?  THIS is what I've been talking about for a while.
It's not that our LB's aren't good, it's that we have no depth and if one gets hurt or leaves, then what?

It makes linebacker a need in free agency and/or the draft.

[HoosierCat]

I've been thinking LB is a legit option in the first 3 rounds all along (really, given how deep both DL and OL look this year, I'd be fine with LB at 17 if the right guy is there). So Pratt potentially leaving really doesn't change my draft calculus. I do like our young guys Njongmeta and Heyward.

 

[ArmyBengal]

Funny you said that Hoosier, I just did another one and took Jalon Walker from Georgia at #17.
Still ended up with a DE and DT that I would love to have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

[COB]

It felt like Pratt was going to get cut, it never occurred to me there would be a trade market for him.  
 

He looked hurt last year.  Kind of like he was running in mud or something, far from the guy who played so well two and three years ago. 

[AMPHAR]

Pratt is a decent LB.    Has a nose for the football.   His tackling fell short.   His number of tackles is reflective that the Bengals D couldn't get off the field they were 6th worse in the league allowing 1088 plays.

When an offense is going to snap the ball that many times there's going to be opportunity for defensive stats.

But overall the back 7 in coverage the past 2 years has been bad and think that's the shortfall of Pratt playing 95% of snaps.

A lot of people said he was a cut candidate, I guess he is.   I'd imagine he's trying to preserve some of the near $6m he was targeted to make with a trade.  Get cut and maybe its something less but he'll catch on somewhere and be a two down LB.

 

[ArmyBengal]

Minus Wilson, it's been a long time since I could say how much I loved our linebacking corps.
There may be a few here and there, but this unit has not been the strength of the defense in some time.

Before pointing out that at times they run 2 LB sets periodically, think about it.
How hard is it to find 2 above average linebackers?  If you have that, why does the depth get forgotten?

This isn't a be all, end all thing for me and I'm not pissed about it, but I want to see more attention there.
Always have.

[AMPHAR]

Quote

You could convert some of the money to a signing bonus, which will lower the cap hit... You can push some of the money to the back end of the contract. That lowers the cap hit. … And then when you get to the back end of the contract, you can restructure it and convert it to a signing bonus.”

OK Joe.   You first.   Every Eagles offensive piece that's resigned has pushed money to the back end of the contract putting it at risk. 

Joe the Cap guru, lol.  Get the fuck out of here.   Talk to Chase and tell him why he should push off his money when he didn't.

Joe Burrow will got $111m in the first two years vs. Hurts at $64m - $47m difference.  That gap only declines $7m through 2025.

AJ Brown represents cap savings to the Eagles after 2025.  Putting $55m that is due after 2025 at risk.  That's over 50% of the extension.

Justin Jefferson of his $159m total deal he gets 60% in the first 3 years.   I'm guessing Chase isn't pushing off 50% of his deal like AJ Brown.

If you want to be like the Eagles then your teammates have to do what they ALL did. 

 

[HoosierCat]

The cap is a non-issue. They have plenty of room both this year and in future years.

Imho, cash really isn't an issue, either, at least not directly. Even if the organization doesn't have all the requisite cash on hand, there are multiple avenues to get it.

The issue is just that, last offseason the FO made it clear they had no plans to re-sign Tee or give Hendrickson more money. Tee was going to be replaced by Burton and if Trey wanted more money, he shouldn't have signed the July 2023 extension. As for Chase, well, he was going to get paid, but on their schedule, not his.

Then Burton shit every bed in sight and Trey led the league in sacks and Chase nabbed a Triple Crown...and their whole plan, such as it was, went up in flames that Burrow is now gleefully pouring more fuel on (and to be clear, good for him).

I honestly don't know how things are going to go. If I had to guess, my guess would be "poorly." We'll see.

[HoosierCat]

Anyhow, Dehner has some thoughts in his latest mailbag. I don't really disagree with anything he writes here.

Re FO/player communication:

Quote

I’ll say this, there’s a need for distance between the front office and players in this business. It’s harsh. Negotiations are tough. Offers (or lack thereof) can lay waste to relationships. The coaching staff and the rest of the organization can be there to help mitigate those issues.

There’s an important difference between silence and distance, though. From my seat, that’s been the problem in so many of these situations that have gone sideways in Cincinnati. A.J. Green, Andrew Whitworth, Jessie Bates, Jonah Williams, DJ Reader, Trey Hendrickson, Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins, among others, have voiced criticisms of the lack of communication they’ve felt about their situations with the front office. Or there’s been back-and-forth about fights with agents. Some eventually got deals done. Others didn’t. I’ve had players ask me personally what I know about what the team will do on major decisions, feeling lost in the dark. The Bengals must evaluate how they handle these discussions, specifically those with their best players. Perhaps a more communicative run-up on expectations or an approach that features more competitive offers to kick off the negotiations could go a long way to keeping the conversations more positive and less combative.

Re a possible Hendrickson trade:

Quote

No defender older than 28 has ever been traded for a first-round pick. If the Bengals could manage a first for Hendrickson, that should be an instant yes. He’s likely in the range of a second-round pick and throw in a touch more depending on the number of that pick.

Take into account a number of edge rushers who could potentially be on the trading block (Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Micah Parsons) and one of the deepest defensive line classes in recent memory and that could water down the offers.

Re tagging Tee again:

Quote

I’ve gotten the sense neither side has interest in forcing Higgins to play on the franchise tag again. It’s within the Bengals’ right, of course, but I think trying to force him to do it again would cause irreparable harm to the culture and dynamics of the team. I think everyone is aware of that.

Re a Chase extension:

Quote

I think Chase will be the last move that happens, actually. ... There’s certainly a chance this overflows into training camp again. The earlier the better in all respects. Justin Jefferson signed his extension with the Vikings on June 3 last year and that would be a welcome sight. Considering the history of what went down last year, how major negotiations traditionally go with the Bengals’ extensions and how massive the deal will be, anything concluding before camp should be considered a win. Replicating the extensions for Green (boarding the team bus for the opener) and Burrow (at kickoff of a Thursday opener) is undeniably in play.

Dehner also believes Cappa is a goner and that the team will likely look to replace him in FA.

[AMPHAR]

I think they should Tag Tee.   Then trade.   I could give two shits about culture damage.   You can get some holes filled with $26m in cap or cash.   What is Tee going to do if he's tagged?  Not play in the opener or 2nd game?  Not catch a 1,000 yards?   Pull himself from games?

Secondly Joe can pour fuel all he wants.  Fans can lick it up all they want.  The fact remains the Eagles have gotten their key players (Hurts, AJ, and Smith) to all back load money which Joe oddly suggests.

So when is Joe deferring his 2025 salary?   

 

 

[COB]

6 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

I could give two shits about culture damage.   

 

If you don’t care about the culture of this football team, what do you care about?

[AMPHAR]

Just now, COB said:

If you don’t care about the culture of this football team, what do you care about?

I don't care what tagging Tee Higgins might do to it.   Professional players and coaches can't have an adequate lockeroom culture IF the No. 2 WR only makes $48m over two years?   People buy into this bullshit?  Dehner doesn't have the balls to call this out?  WTF?

The only legit reason not to tag Tee would be if they were concerned he'd sign it right away and refuse to work with any team on a trade.   That would lock the Bengals into $26m cap/cash and Tee simply isn't worth that, IMO. 

I say Tag at the last minute.  If that happens then start taking offers. 

 

 

 

[COB]

Using the franchise tag twice on a player is a major violation.  Of what?  I’m not articulate enough to verbalize it, the best I can do is: 

it is a violation of an unspoken agreement between players and management that teams won’t put guys at long term risk twice.  The first tag happens.  It’s a risk.  The second tag is like giving the guy the finger.  I think it also sends the team the message that we straight up don’t care about you guys.

[COB]

PS - I remember laughing at Leveon Bell when the Steelers tagged him twice.  I can’t remember if he played the second year or faked an injury and just rode it out.  

[ArmyBengal]

Yep, Bell got tagged twice and he simply never reported and never returned to the team.
He didn't play that year, the Steelers let him become a free agent the following year and he walked.
Pretty much the worst scenario unfolded there.

On one hand, I can see why they would want to tag Tee again to keep him off the market initially, but there are a couple different outcomes that would be horrendous for the Bengals.  Him not playing in 2025 only to have him do what Bell did and then walk away in 2026 is just shit and delays whatever compensation the team could see sooner.

If something could be done with a tag and trade scenario, I'd be all for it.
Does the front office even know what that means?  Any confidence in them pulling that off?

Again, we may not feel Tee is worth $26m per year, but I damn well guarantee some other team will pay him that without batting an eye.  Some teams have money to burn.

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, COB said:

Using the franchise tag twice on a player is a major violation.  Of what?  I’m not articulate enough to verbalize it, the best I can do is: 

it is a violation of an unspoken agreement between players and management that teams won’t put guys at long term risk twice.  The first tag happens.  It’s a risk.  The second tag is like giving the guy the finger.  I think it also sends the team the message that we straight up don’t care about you guys.

Him playing on the tag again gives him more than Pittman and Devonta Smith in the same time period.   Again, who gives a shit?  You?  Fine. 

[AMPHAR]

Quote

Again, we may not feel Tee is worth $26m per year, but I damn well guarantee some other team will pay him that without batting an eye.  Some teams have money to burn.

True.  But I can also guarantee some free agent signing from 2 years ago or sooner will also be cut out from underneath that contract without batting that same eye. 

I really don't see the value in locking yourself into Tee Higgins in 3/4 year deal at $26m given his lack of production due to his availability.   If the Bengals want to do that, fine.  He's a fan and QB favorite so could be worse.

I believe Tee if he wants to stay with the Bengals will probably have to choose to do what Burrow and presumably Chase won't do and is push money back in the contract and shoulder more risk.

Which oddly enough is what the franchise tag forces the player to do.   Him playing on the tag compensates equal or more than market he just doesn't get the multi guarantee but he wouldn't get that IF he does what Joe suggests.

[ArmyBengal]

2 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Him playing on the tag again gives him more than Pittman and Devonta Smith in the same time period.   Again, who gives a shit?  You?  Fine. 

It very well may but I don’t see him doing it. He could sit out to force the Bengals hand and even he just sits, that in and of itself will be a problem when trying to figure out how to start fast. That shit will linger with the team whose leader has been so vocal. It cuts both ways.

[ArmyBengal]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

True.  But I can also guarantee some free agent signing from 2 years ago or sooner will also be cut out from underneath that contract without batting that same eye. 

Maybe, but that player (whoever that is) isn’t part of our equation. Tee is our concern and someone willing to pay him now is of little consequence to what may or may not happen to him years down the road.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ve never advocated they pay Higgins top of the market. I would love a Pittman style deal, and always thought he was the odd man out.

I can argue both sides of the coin for keeping him vs. not, but just want a quick resolution. The longer it plays out with him, the more problems build.

I think it will be fine either way as long as we aren’t the ones over paying.

[COB]

Keeping Tee = top four or five offense in the league.  If we can just get an average defense, we’re a playoff team and maybe more.

Tee has been hurt, true, and has missed games.  But a side effect of that is to show how different the offense is when he’s healthy.  They’re way better.  
 

Presumably there is a concerted strategy between him, his new agent, Chase, and Burrow.  It seems like they’ve talked about it and have a plan.  And part of that is Burrow trying to get the FO to go along with that plan.  
 

Team culture, team chemistry, whatever it is called, is hugely important.  Football is a selfless game when it’s played at its highest level.  Guys are putting their long term health and well-being on the line for a game.  If you get it wrong, you’re the jets, you’re the 90s bengals, you’re the current Browns.  The bengals have been getting it right for a while now.  Picking Burton was a little slip.  Chase sitting out camp and pre season was a little slip.  I think they need to be careful how they deal with these negotiations.  I think they need more personnel, staying in touch with the players and their agents, moving the discussions along faster.

[COB]

Also,let the players fill up the trunks of their cars with Gatorade.

[AMPHAR]

Burrow says follow the Eagles.   That means Tee needs to sign a 5 year $90m+ deal.  Like Devonta Smith.   But push 50% of the value to years 4 and 5 and simultaneously have the Bengals minimal cap hit IF they choose to cut after year 3.

100% for that.    Effectively makes Tee a $16-$18m a year player.

IF Tee has to play on the tag.  He would earn $48m over 2024/2025.  That's significantly more than Smith earned.  More than Pittman and $3m less than AJ. 

Fans can believe and lick up whatever bullshit they want.   There would be no excuse for a bad season because of Tee playing on a tag.  

 

[AMPHAR]

Part 2

Burrow says follow the Eagles.  That means Chase needs to take his top of the market deal that's going to be somewhere around 5 years and $160-170m  and do what AJ Brown accepted which puts 52% of the deal in years 3,4,5, and 6 while representing cap flexibility after year 2.

Chase is unlikely to sign that structure because Justin Jefferson gets 60% of his $159m total value in Years 1,2, and 3 and the Vikings get cap flexibility going into year 4.   JJ's structure outlay aligns close to his yearly average.

CeeDee Lamb also receives 60% of his $154m deal in years 1,2, and 3.  The Cowboys also get cap flexibility going into year 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zbeaster]

On 2/12/2025 at 4:13 PM, ArmyBengal said:

Funny you said that Hoosier, I just did another one and took Jalon Walker from Georgia at #17.
Still ended up with a DE and DT that I would love to have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I'd be really happy with Walker at 17.

[zbeaster]

On 2/11/2025 at 9:40 AM, ArmyBengal said:

I'm still not sold that keeping Tee, as much I have enjoyed watching him play, is the best thing for the team.

In regards to Dehner's piece, when considering Burrow's deal, Chase's upcoming deal, and Trey's contract, they have to haggle for every last decimal point.  You can't just throw another $30m a season at Tee in the effort to put a big smile on his face and not think that's going to be a problem.  This isn't fantasy land.

While I didn't watch the Super Bowl, I went back and watched highlights of the game.  What I gained from those highlights is, it's a really good thing to have an above average defense capable of putting pressure on the QB.  Not that we didn't already know that.

I'm just speculating anyway, as we do here, but it will be interesting to watch.
 

I agree. Tee is obviously awesome but I think letting him walk may just be the best option for the team.