Serious Question About the Front Office Mindset

[cincyhokie]

The stadium lease for Paul Brown Stadium is up in 2026. The team will face a new levy passing by the county to sustain operations at PBS, from my understanding. So the county taxpayers will have to approve the lease proposal for the team to remain in Cincinnati. Or at least that's the gist of the upcoming situation.

So here's my question. If the Hamilton County residents don't pass a stadium levy what's the guarantee there's another city that will cooperate. And even if that happens and the Bengals relocate, how patient will this new city be of the Brown family ways of doing business? The Brown family has become more than comfortable in making the Cincinnati Bengals their cash cow business and milking the city for decades. Keep in mind Cincinnati is a very patient and conservative city in and of itself. It's a perfect match. Will the Brown family be so lucky in another market?

I doubt it. Not only that but I think we're seeing the beginning of the end of the Bengals as we know them. Either they're on their way out of town or they're going to have to join the 21st century and the rest of the NFL and change their ways. You could even point to the Reds and FC Cincinnati as organizations that are fully embracing new ways of doing business. And the fans have responded. I do think better days are ahead for FC and the Reds and those fans will be rewarded.

Just because the Bengals are the Brown family business and they've been able to be profitable maintaining their status quo doesn't mean they can do so forever. What other city would put up with them (after the honeymoon of excitement)? What says the NFL doesn't take the money of another owning group and starts a franchise to REPLACE the Bengals? Just because the Browns own the Bengals doesn't mean they get infinite immunity and access to participate in the NFL. As Mike Brown gets older and eventually dies along with his other owner pals, the allegiance and owner ties to the Bengals might die with that generation. 

Everything changes. Everything evolves. Either you change with things or you "die". 

So to the Bengals FO, what are you willing to do? Change here in Cincinnati or stay the same and go off to wither and die in another city that won't be as accepting?

FYI, as of now I'm voting NO to a stadium levy in 2026. I'll live without the NFL in Cincinnati.

[cincyhokie]

Even if they move, and that is a very serious possibility, where would they go?

St. Louis (they couldn't keep the SB Champ Rams)?

San Antonio? You think Texans are going to put up with this crap football?

San Diego? HA! 

England? There's no way in hell the Brown family would be open to that kind of change. Plus England would turn their back on them so fast. They need an aggressive ownership from the start.

So where else? I can't think of where they would go. Anyone?

[AMPHAR]

Wishful thinking.  Couple things:

1. New concert venue in which the Bengals gave back $30 mil to county.  County is now buying land for parking and maybe leads to further development along that west section of the riverfront.   There will be an extended lease at some point

2. Nothing is paid off.  The county can’t afford to have a stadium sit empty.  

3. Life in general should tell you that Government officials are never against expanding government which is exactly what these stadiums do.  Creates new stadium authority departments etc. So yes there will always be a town willing to work a deal.  

They love to run commissions, studies, planning to figure out new taxes and ways to spend it. 

Many towns with a promise of a Super Bowl will bite.  

[HoosierCat]

I’d bet they’d find takers. Heck, up in my neck of the woods, the idea of trying to attract a pro sports team gets floated by pols every few years.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/ct-ptb-pro-sports-team-st-1127-20151127-story.html

NFL teams, even crappy ones, don’t come on the market (so to speak) too often.

That said, 2026 is a ways away and the Bengals might stumble into some brief success by then. But if they are mired in another 10+ year streak of misery, yeah, hard to see voters giving them more money.

 

[AMPHAR]

Also the voters will not vote on a Bengals lease.

The county will put forth a financing plan then negotiate a lease.

The vote will be the financing plan which they’ll tie several things together to get it to pass(if a vote is needed) just like nobody just voted to give Mike Brown a stadium back 1995 they voted on “Rebirth of the Riverfront” which included several projects including PBS and GABP.  

Many people forget back in 1993 the County had a stadium solution in place for the Bengals  that would have avoided the threat to move 1995.  No vote was required.   It fell through because of the Reds. 

[cincyhokie]

I would find it hard to believe that the Bengals would leave Cincinnati. This is too perfect of a scenario for the Brown family to leave. They don't want to leave. As Hoosier mentioned, a lot can happen in the next 7 years. The good news, IMO, is that the Bengals know they have to do something significant to get more of what they want. And that puts leverage to the residents of Cincinnati and the fans. 

This is a crossroads for this organization. It just is. While this abomination of a season is painful to the fans, it's exactly what is needed. Certainly not more mediocrity. Changes are coming. In what form, we don't know. Eventually MB will pass. And just like any family, the passing of the old brings change in some form.

I do think there will be positive change but it won't bring playoffs for 2020. It will be a glimpse into the future and into some form of hope. That's just my take. Hard to see now but I stand by it. This is how life works. We deal with reality. And if we're hard to accept it, it keeps coming around until it slaps you in the face.

Maybe by 2021 or 2022 there will be a more solid foundation of identity of what this team can be. Keep in mind a new QB is coming. Expect coaching staff changes in mass. Expect some things that are unexpected. For now. We suck and the old can't sustain. All we can ask for is movement and that's probably as good as we'll see for now. Onto the draft.

[COB]

Even though the Cleveland Browns would hate it, Columbus would love an NFL team.  Central Ohio residents are pretty familiar with Mike and his obstinate ways, so they’d probably like a different ownership group.  

[cincyhokie]

23 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Wishful thinking.  Couple things:

1. New concert venue in which the Bengals gave back $30 mil to county.  County is now buying land for parking and maybe leads to further development along that west section of the riverfront.   There will be an extended lease at some point

2. Nothing is paid off.  The county can’t afford to have a stadium sit empty.  

3. Life in general should tell you that Government officials are never against expanding government which is exactly what these stadiums do.  Creates new stadium authority departments etc. So yes there will always be a town willing to work a deal.  

They love to run commissions, studies, planning to figure out new taxes and ways to spend it. 

Many towns with a promise of a Super Bowl will bite.  

But would those cities sustain them? I don't think they move. And the leverage is with the citizens right now. It's actually ideal. 

[cincyhokie]

3 minutes ago, COB said:

Even though the Cleveland Browns would hate it, Columbus would love an NFL team.  Central Ohio residents are pretty familiar with Mike and his obstinate ways, so they’d probably like a different ownership group.  

I think that would be a reasonable option but it'd be hard to cut through that Cleveland (and Pittsburgh) fanbase in Columbus.

[ArmyBengal]

Fuck the Bengals. I would personally help the Brown family pack their shit. That being said, I honestly don’t think they go anywhere. The local government is simply going to have to be more creative. Thinking tax layers would agree again is wishful thinking.

[COB]

Birmingham - easily fooled populace.

Salt Lake City - Desperate for the legitimacy pro sports brings.  The Jazz needs a partner.

[cincyhokie]

Just now, ArmyBengal said:

Fuck the Bengals. I would personally help the Brown family pack their shit. That being said, I honestly don’t think they go anywhere. The local government is simply going to have to be more creative. Thinking tax layers would agree again is wishful thinking.

I feel the same way. If it were 2026, I would vote NO if I was given a choice.

The Reds and FC are going to be a positive influence on the Bengals. They won't be able to ignore it. They'll want a piece of that fan focus. 

This year is shit. Next year we need to see something that resembles a plan and direction. Or we'll just tune out. And that's ok with me. I don't need this team like I used to. Life has gotten way more complex as I've aged. My vote will be to tune out completely. Likewise with others. The Bengals know that and things aren't like they used to be a few decades ago. People have more options.

[cincyhokie]

Just now, COB said:

Birmingham - easily fooled populace.

Salt Lake City - Desperate for the legitimacy pro sports brings.  The Jazz needs a partner.

Lol. That's awesome re: Birmingham. 

But the Falcons aren't even strong in Atlanta. Birmingham isn't much better than Cincinnati.

I can't see the Bengals doing progressive West type things. With west type people. So Salt Lake would be a better option for an expansion team, IMO.

[AMPHAR]

10 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

But would those cities sustain them? I don't think they move. And the leverage is with the citizens right now. It's actually ideal. 

Most communities that lose a major league sports team go through some kind of replacement phase. 

Look everyone gets pissed about a 0-7 season and all sorts of bad logic gets thrown around about how to destroy Mike Brown’s ownership.

Hamilton County will try to keep Mike Brown and the Bengals.  If they don’t then they’ll have an empty stadium and have more operating cost because they will lose  economic impact and tax revenue and still have the debt. 

The county saves nothing by saying bye to the Bengals.  Their fiancés probably get worse. At a minimum they are losing an equivalent of 100+ CEO paying jobs. 

There are 5 NFL franchises within 5 hour drive of the Bengals.  Hamilton County doesn’t want the NFL and Mike Brown they would be happy to move because they would have a better market.   

Cincinnati would easily be absorbed into the Cleveland, Indy, Pitt markets. 

Do you honestly think 32 billionaires aren’t going to be able to figure it out? 

There is no leverage.  Citizens love sports and especially football.  Maybe when we all dead and gone it might change. 

If Cincinnati doesn’t want the NFL they’ll easily  move on.   

[AMPHAR]

There are ownership groups that own multiple franchises.   NFL and Premier league teams etc. 

So some sort of International expansion will occur.  Then if it’s an existing franchise like Jacksonville or Tampa then that opens up another jumping spot.  

The NFL is only going to grow.  

The reality is if Cincinnati loses the Brown ownership then they probably lose the NFL.

Fine.  Good riddance.   But you’ll lose tax revenue and still have massive debt service to pay off.  So you’ll go through several replacement ideas.  FC Cincinnati already has new stadium underway. 

Any attempt to replace the Bengals with anything will cost the City/County something.

The most logical thing would be University of a Cincinnati taking over PBS in coordination with being accepted into a Power 5 football conference. 

But the city will still need to work a deal and UC’s current athletic budget will not get any big conferences looking.   

 

[cincyhokie]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

Most communities that lose a major league sports team go through some kind of replacement phase. 

Look everyone gets pissed about a 0-7 season and all sorts of bad logic gets thrown around about how to destroy Mike Brown’s ownership.

Hamilton County will try to keep Mike Brown and the Bengals.  If they don’t then they’ll have an empty stadium and have more operating cost because they will lose  economic impact and tax revenue and still have the debt. 

The county saves nothing by saying bye to the Bengals.  Their fiancés probably get worse. At a minimum they are losing an equivalent of 100+ CEO paying jobs. 

There are 5 NFL franchises within 5 hour drive of the Bengals.  Hamilton County doesn’t want the NFL and Mike Brown they would be happy to move because they would have a better market.   

Cincinnati would easily be absorbed into the Cleveland, Indy, Pitt markets. 

Do you honestly think 32 billionaires aren’t going to be able to figure it out? 

There is no leverage.  Citizens love sports and especially football.  Maybe when we all dead and gone it might change. 

If Cincinnati doesn’t want the NFL they’ll easily  move on.   

I understand all of that. But what makes anyone think that if Cincinnati can't even put up with the Bengals that another city would do the same. The fact is that BOTH the Bengals and the city do benefit from the team staying here. That's why it's not like the Brown family can't just sleep walk with the lease coming to an end in 2026. 

Of course the NFL will figure it out and things will move on. But why is it implied that those billionaires give a shit about the Bengals? Why would the NFL need to enable the Brown family? To your very point, they don't need to. They'll figure it out from their perspective. 

The leverage is that the Brown family needs Cincinnati. Whether it's monetary, psychologically or both. It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot when it benefits them from putting a more consistent product on the field that is moving with the rest of the NFL. 

[HoosierCat]

Another factor to consider: Mike Brown is 84 years old. It’s not improbable that between now and the expiration of the lease, he goes off to the Great Gridiron in the Sky. This will of course occasion all sorts of “changing of the guard” narratives in the media that will play up the Bengals and the brighter days ahead, yadda yadda yadda. Yes, people like us will know it’s horse manure, but outside the Extremely Online Fans it will probably find wide acceptance.

Bottom line is that all it takes is a brief sense of optimism for a deal to get done, either in Cincy or elsewhere, and the Immovable Object finally crumbling might just do the trick.

[cincyhokie]

The fact is everything is an illusion. The Bengals aren't the victim, the fans aren't the victim.

The Bengals could move on and make things work if they make changes. They could stay here and make it work if they make changes.

The city isn't destitute if the Bengals leave. Life will go on. Emotionally and fiscally.

The city would find a way. The NFL and the Bengals would find a way.

But this is how change happens. From experiencing consequences in life. Nothing is going to completely fall apart. Everything holding the "same old, same old" in place is fear, speculation, and panic. Not a recipe for success in anything in life. 

[COB]

26 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

The fact is everything is an illusion. The Bengals aren't the victim, the fans aren't the victim.

The Bengals could move on and make things work if they make changes. They could stay here and make it work if they make changes.

The city isn't destitute if the Bengals leave. Life will go on. Emotionally and fiscally.

The city would find a way. The NFL and the Bengals would find a way.

But this is how change happens. From experiencing consequences in life. Nothing is going to completely fall apart. Everything holding the "same old, same old" in place is fear, speculation, and panic. Not a recipe for success in anything in life. 

Too right.  That last paragraph, I assume, pretty accurately describes the Bengals management.  Too afraid to try anything new, applying fiscal principles that are sound for a household, applying them to a multi billion dollar entity that is a single franchise in a collective of 32 similar entities.  Such an unusual business surely requires a dynamic and bold fiscal philosophy.  

[AMPHAR]

1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

I understand all of that. But what makes anyone think that if Cincinnati can't even put up with the Bengals that another city would do the same. The fact is that BOTH the Bengals and the city do benefit from the team staying here. That's why it's not like the Brown family can't just sleep walk with the lease coming to an end in 2026. 

Of course the NFL will figure it out and things will move on. But why is it implied that those billionaires give a shit about the Bengals? Why would the NFL need to enable the Brown family? To your very point, they don't need to. They'll figure it out from their perspective. 

The leverage is that the Brown family needs Cincinnati. Whether it's monetary, psychologically or both. It makes no sense to shoot themselves in the foot when it benefits them from putting a more consistent product on the field that is moving with the rest of the NFL. 

I don't think the Bengals are looking to jump or sleep walk their way to the end of the lease.   They just gave back $30 mil and the county is moving on with the Concert venue.

The league will always have losers as much as winners.  That's why they are willing to share revenue and that's why their league has enjoyed much more popularity vs. MLB or NBA.  

Despite the jeers of the Brown's being cheap he simply isn't out spent by the other 32 teams in today's environment like you see in MLB.   Yes, back when Brown first took over and the salary cap came about he siphoned off revenue so he could buy controlling ownership.    Today's there are floors in place and over a period of years the teams are very similar in total payroll (not 100% equal) but not to a level in which a franchise couldn't compete.

 Recently Mike Brown's franchise has competed.   This is a bad horrible season but they were in the top half of total regular season wins.

 Finally,  some of this is on Cincinnati Bengal fans.  A lot of us are jaded.  When things go bad we jump right back into the 90s mode.   When they go good we act like the franchise has changed.    it's kinda crazy the huge emotional mood swings from year to year.

At the end of the day.  People are going to look at the riverfront.  They are going to realize there is a benefit and the lease will get extended and somebody from the Brown family will own and operate the Bengals.

If it goes south they'll just move.  Then county will need to figure out a replacement plan to help pay off the debt.

 

 

[COB]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

...The league will always have losers as much as winners....Finally,  some of this is on Cincinnati Bengal fans. ...

 

Stockholm syndrome.  
 

The league will always have losers, so we’re supposed to accept being the Washington Generals of the NFL?  And when we don’t like it, it’s somehow our fault they’re losing?  

Fuck that.  The attitude that it’s a zero sum league, so since Mike spends as much as everyone else on PLAYER SALARY, he’s doing what he’s supposed to do.  
 

I guess it’s just chance in this zero sum league that the Patriots win everything and our guys suck.  Eh, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles, there have to be losers for there to be any winners, I’m as happy as a Patriots fan!  

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think the Brown family, any other owner, or the NFL would bat an eye if the Bengals left and moved into a larger market, which would increase all of their revenue.
The owners would be able to figure that out with great ease.

I simply don't care anymore. 

I hate the Brown family.  Hate them with every ounce of my being.  Why ??  Not because they are cheap.  I don't believe that narrative.
I hate them because I don't truly believe in the way they do business.  I feel their approach is outdated and their product is and has been a big piece of shit.
Simply because people find enjoyment in that piece of shit product does not make how they do business correct.  0-7 has nothing to do with that.
This organization has never won shit and I would place a large bet they never will.

Fuck the Bengals.  Pack your shit.  The city will live and move on.
No more excuses for a family and organization that has not earned that.

 

[AMPHAR]

46 minutes ago, COB said:

Stockholm syndrome.  
 

The league will always have losers, so we’re supposed to accept being the Washington Generals of the NFL?  And when we don’t like it, it’s somehow our fault they’re losing?  

Fuck that.  The attitude that it’s a zero sum league, so since Mike spends as much as everyone else on PLAYER SALARY, he’s doing what he’s supposed to do.  
 

I guess it’s just chance in this zero sum league that the Patriots win everything and our guys suck.  Eh, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles, there have to be losers for there to be any winners, I’m as happy as a Patriots fan!  

 There's been 52 Superbowl champions and the majority come from 5 franchises.   I've never told you to accept anything.   Whenever the Bengals are down we get these grand schemes to over throw Mike Brown, fine.

My reference to the league will always have winners and losers was in response to the owners doing something about Mike Brown.   They won't.   Why?  Because most of the league is mediocre.   It's designed that way.     My reference to Mike's spending is again responding to the owners; he's not enriching himself at their expense.   How?  Because once again that's the way the league runs with spending floors that they all agreed to.

 People making decisions don't think this way.   There is no unicorn coming to take Mike Brown's franchise away.  

Yes you will accept it for as long as you pay attention.   There's really nothing you can do about it except stop paying attention. 

 

[cincyhokie]

I've always said the Mike Brown led Bengals are the organization that breaks your leg then somehow makes you feel forced to appreciate the crutch they sold you.

Par for the course is sub mediocrity with some good seasons and absolute turds sprinkled in there. That is the baseline. Sub mediocre. Think 7-9.

I don't think it's an overreaction from fans when they see things go south ala the 90's. So they had a good run 2011-2015. But that's not the baseline. That's the anomaly. 

[cincyhokie]

12 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

 There is no unicorn coming to take Mike Brown's franchise away.  

No there isn't. Mike will pass relatively soon anyway. Not that I wish anyone to pass. 

There is no unicorn. Just as there is no unicorn that things can remain the same just because. Things change. They evolve. The Brown family with or without Mike would change before they were tsunamied by a total disruption in their business. 

So my whole point in this original post is to point out the inevitability of change. Do we REALLY think that the Bengals could smoothly pack up and transition into a brand new city or area? The Bengals? Because, you know, they are so good at change and being adaptable. But if they had to they would. But if they stay in Cincinnati they'll have to change too. This is more theory than anything, but this city is  changing. How we consume sports is changing. The sporting options in the city is expanding.

I just don't think that businesses, regardless of the type, have the convenience of sitting on their heels and milking a cash cow with minimal effort or risk anymore. The world is becoming too transparent. People aren't putting up with BS anymore. At least, not like they used to.

I'm actually optimistic that things will get better. Maybe not right now or next year, but they will change. Forget winning. We'll at least take change. Because with change comes hope.