cincyhokie Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 In the last 15 years the AFC has sent 5 different teams to the Super Bowl led by 4 different QB's. One of which was Joe Flacco in the 2012 season. So basically in the 14 of those 15 years, the AFC team in the SB has been led by Tom Brady, Payton Manning, or Ben Roethelisburger. Patriots - 7 times with Tom Brady. 2003, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017. Steelers - 3 times with Fat Ben. 2005, 2008, 2010. Ravens - 1 time with Joe Flacco. 2012. Broncos - 2 times with Peyton Manning. 2013, 2015. Colts - 2 times with Peyton Manning. 2006, 2009. This is a question posed by Mo Egger from ESPN 1530 in Cincinnati. "Is it easier to win by going all in on a QB or win by going all in on a supporting cast of good players, good line, or good defense, or some combination?" We'll have potentially some interesting info based on if Nick Foles can lead the Eagles to a Super Bowl win. However, in the last 15 years only 6 different QBs TOTAL have won the Super Bowl. Brady, Fat Ben, Flacco, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson. Is it likely that a team can win the Super Bowl and sustain a winning stretch with a mid-tier QB? The Bengals are married to at best a mid-tier QB. The 2017 draft is, in my opinion, about to introduce the next generation of great QB play. The Bengals are likely to stay with "Blandy" Dalton. Can they win the SB with him? Quote
COB Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 The NFL has allowed qb play to become a disproportionately large piece of a winning formula. The stats cited above illustrate it better than anything I’ve ever seen. It’s discouraging. It lessens interest in the game, lessens fans’ interest in their own teams when their team is like 80% of the teams and doesn’t have that top level quarterback. Quote
AMPHAR Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 Don’t get me wrong QB is very important. However, playing the name game is skewing the reality. For instances Ben was a game managing QB in 2005 and the running game and defense led them the way. Peyton Manning was trash during his last Super Bowl season with Denver that team was led by defense. Tom Brady and the Patriots also transformed throughout the years. However QB should be on the table for pick 12. 1 Quote
AMPHAR Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 A truer test would be: How many times did a top 3 AFC statistical QB and top AFC passing offense win the AFC? It will still skew favorably towards QB, I’m guessing but it will not seem so one sided as just relying on “name” which assumes the Hall of Fame QB delivered a MVP season each and everytime they won a Super Bowl. Quote
cincyhokie Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Posted January 22, 2018 Passing stats are one thing. A QB’s leadership skills are another. Passing offense is one thing. Being able to lead your team through the playoffs is another. Quote
COB Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 I don’t think seeing a qb win the afc means he was the afc mvp. It just means these same top few quarterbacks are the only ones capable of winning the AFC. Quote
GapControl Posted January 23, 2018 Report Posted January 23, 2018 I’m trying to come up with NFC QBs... Rodgers, Brees, Newton, R.Wilson, Palmer?, Warner... Warner again..., Farve?, E. Manning, some QB for Tampa Bay with Gruden...Mcnabb w Eagles?, Young... anyway im not sure but I think there’s been a bunch of NFC QBs but only a few in the AFC Quote
GapControl Posted January 23, 2018 Report Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, GapControl said: I’m trying to come up with NFC QBs... Rodgers, Brees, Newton, R.Wilson, Palmer?, Warner... Warner again..., Farve?, E. Manning, some QB for Tampa Bay with Gruden...Mcnabb w Eagles?, Young... anyway im not sure but I think there’s been a bunch of NFC QBs but only a few in the AFC Ok I googled it. Palmer never made it... Farve was more than 15 years ago and so was Young... From 2002 - Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme (how can I forget him? :) - , Mcnabb, Hasselback, Grossman, E. Manning, Warner, Brees, Rodgers, e. Manning again, kaepwick, Wilson back2back, Newton, Matt Ryan (duh already forgot him)... Quote
GapControl Posted January 23, 2018 Report Posted January 23, 2018 So all those guys made it to the SB which is as close you can get without winning it but I only consider 5 of them better than Andy “0-7“ Dalton. Looking at it from the NFC side, Mo Eggars question answers itself. great QB better chance. Game manager ... it can be done but the defense and running game have to be there. Quote
GapControl Posted January 23, 2018 Report Posted January 23, 2018 Btw, Rex Grossman made me laugh outloud... then I started crying at the unfairness of it all Quote
AMPHAR Posted January 24, 2018 Report Posted January 24, 2018 I’m just saying the catalyst for the Pittsburgh 2005 title and the last Denver title wasn’t QB play, but if you just go by the QBs last name you could be duped into thinking the actual play that particular year was on par with the rest of their career. Tom Terrific was the same way. In fact Bledsoe actually won Brady’s first AFC championship due to an in game injury to Brady. Quote
GapControl Posted January 24, 2018 Report Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, AMPHAR said: I’m just saying the catalyst for the Pittsburgh 2005 title and the last Denver title wasn’t QB play, but if you just go by the QBs last name you could be duped into thinking the actual play that particular year was on par with the rest of their career. Tom Terrific was the same way. In fact Bledsoe actually won Brady’s first AFC championship due to an in game injury to Brady. That’s a fact many people have forgotten. Quote
Dimster28 Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 8:41 PM, cincyhokie said: In the last 15 years the AFC has sent 5 different teams to the Super Bowl led by 4 different QB's. One of which was Joe Flacco in the 2012 season. So basically in the 14 of those 15 years, the AFC team in the SB has been led by Tom Brady, Payton Manning, or Ben Roethelisburger. Patriots - 7 times with Tom Brady. 2003, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017. Steelers - 3 times with Fat Ben. 2005, 2008, 2010. Ravens - 1 time with Joe Flacco. 2012. Broncos - 2 times with Peyton Manning. 2013, 2015. Colts - 2 times with Peyton Manning. 2006, 2009. This is a question posed by Mo Egger from ESPN 1530 in Cincinnati. "Is it easier to win by going all in on a QB or win by going all in on a supporting cast of good players, good line, or good defense, or some combination?" We'll have potentially some interesting info based on if Nick Foles can lead the Eagles to a Super Bowl win. However, in the last 15 years only 6 different QBs TOTAL have won the Super Bowl. Brady, Fat Ben, Flacco, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson. Is it likely that a team can win the Super Bowl and sustain a winning stretch with a mid-tier QB? The Bengals are married to at best a mid-tier QB. The 2017 draft is, in my opinion, about to introduce the next generation of great QB play. The Bengals are likely to stay with "Blandy" Dalton. Can they win the SB with him? only 6 qb in 15 years?? didnt rodgers and brees win one superbowl each during that 15 years? Quote
cincyhokie Posted January 28, 2018 Author Report Posted January 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Dimster28 said: only 6 qb in 15 years?? didnt rodgers and brees win one superbowl each during that 15 years? Indeed. I stand corrected. 8 different QBs in 15 years. Quote
AMPHAR Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 How different place kickers have won the Super Bowl over the past 15 years? Quote
COB Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 I think they were talking about 6 AFC qbs winning the Super Bowl. NFC is a different set of guys. Quote
GapControl Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 The NfC guys give more credit to the argument that a team needs defense, teams, and decent running just as much as a top 5 QB. Quote
cincyhokie Posted January 29, 2018 Author Report Posted January 29, 2018 When it comes to the way the Bengals operate, it makes so much sense that they have a TOP QB. For them to have to manage the roster of a great defense, let alone a great D line, or O line, it leaves too much room for error. I give them credit for drafting Palmer seeing that he could have been that guy that could carry a team. But it didn't work out that way. Thanks, Kimo. What they are looking at is getting a top 5 pick down the road PLUS it being a good QB class if they are to ever get a top tier QB. So, sure, the Bengals can be competitive with Dalton but I seriously doubt he'll ever get them over the hump. Not because of Dalton but because there are too many other roster pieces to hit a home run on and manage for the Bengals FO to ever put it all together. They don't manage the roster well. They draft ok but can't manage the pieces. They refuse to get creative in FA. The reasons go on and on. It's a long standing losing narrative that's just good enough (when the stars align) to break your heart. 1 Quote
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, cincyhokie said: It's a long standing losing narrative that's just good enough (when the stars align) to break your heart. Well said hokie. Quote
Passepartout Posted January 29, 2018 Report Posted January 29, 2018 Yeah Peyton Manning played an unusual supporting role in his last game due to age and injuries. Proving defense does win you the game. Quote
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