Great Read on Burfict & Scouting

[JaxonFord87]

Maybe the only progress that was made was for free Gatorade

[TJJackson]

If thats so, maybe we can lure JJoe back

[COB]

Chill people.

Just chill.

Here are some horse tranquilizers. They'll help. I promise.

I'm hyperventilating. Can't remember my mantra.

[kingwilly]

Ugh. Hobson:

I haven't heard a word lately about signing Burfict to a long term deal. What's up? Dick Feldon, Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.

DICK: I’d like to know, too. A few weeks ago a Fox report surfaced that said they had made progress, but that was directly opposite from what I was hearing. Not an easy deal to do. He’s put up great numbers in his first two years, but theoretically they have him for two more years because they can tender him at the highest restricted free agent number after this season. So there’s got to be a middle way in there. The team has to recognize he’s put up elite numbers and his people have to realize it’s early to do a deal. In the end, it sounds like they’ll find some common ground if that report came from his side.

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Hobsons-Choice-Many-happy-returns/db571cc9-4ab0-4dbf-9893-890d95f2c040

Warning: :beatdeadhorse:/>

WTF are they planning on doing with that $25 million in cap space???? First it was to sign Green and Dalton, then it was to sign Burfict and Dalton after they exercised the fifth-year option on AJ, and now it's to...what? For three years they've been telling us they have to let guys walk and sock away cash to sign their core guys and now all we hear is Andy wants too much or Vontaze is tough to do or AJ can wait until next year or maybe the year after 'cause we can tag him.

But hey, we extended Peko, so championship!

[/rant]

Its this kind of stuff that walks back the progress this franchise has supposedly made. NOT rewarding a guy like Burfict, exercising the 5th year option on Green, shows that maybe this isn't the place you want to go.

Lock Burfict in, because even if you wait, the price is gonna climb. Is he gonna get worse? probably not. Doing the deal now should be seen as what you are saving against his price in two years, as the cap climbs and market climbs. I don't like "wait and see" for Burfict. We are there. Reward him, lock him in for another 5. Make him the example of how you reward players.

Dalton is a different animal. It does not bother me that his deal is not done. He can slide and wait. If he turns into a $20M/yr gu, wow, that a great problem to have.

Green is locked for his 5th, so there's nothing needed, and he does stand to show some improvement. If I'm Green's agent, and the message from the Bengals is the Hue offense will be more run focused, I'd be laying the groundwork for the things he will be measured on to establish his value for a deal after his 5th year option. If I'm Green, I know I'll earn far more money waiting for the cap and market to grow.

[HoosierCat]

Exactly. It's a penny-wise, pound-foolish approach. Sure, you can make the undrafted rookie play out his chump change contract, then get another year cheap with the RFA tag, but it makes a mockery of the franchise's pay-for-performance rhetoric and encourages current and potential players to look elsewhere.

[HoosierCat]

Well, this might explain things a bit: one former agent thinks Burfict could command $9 million/year on the open market.

/>http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2014/06/07/kaepernick-like-contract-comes-dalton-push/10183491/

In other words, "Geno Atkins money." That's a lot to choke down but they have to pay someone eventually...right?

[ArmyBengal]

One of the best players at his position in the league that has been key to our defense ??

Yeah, I have little problem with a large contract for him. He has earned that payday.

I know it doesn't work this way when considering the cap hit, but when you factor in what he made during his rookie UDFA contract and what he will make with his upcoming deal, the overall cost will be next to nothing. They got him on the cheap up to this point.

[kingwilly]

Well, this might explain things a bit: one former agent thinks Burfict could command $9 million/year on the open market.

/>http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2014/06/07/kaepernick-like-contract-comes-dalton-push/10183491/

In other words, "Geno Atkins money." That's a lot to choke down but they have to pay someone eventually...right?

He'd be worth every penny.

Geno makes that kind of coin.

Hall has made that kind of coin.

Burfict is elite, and deserves that kind of coin.

And that is what makes it all the harder to swallow a huge Romo-like number for Dalton. My current view is Dalton does not get a new deal, and they pick up talks in January (or NOT), based on how 2014 turns out.

So, with AJ possibly locked up till 2016 (5th year option then Franchise tag), Dalton waiting it out, Burfict in the hopper for a raise, I'd like someone to tell me again how they couldn't keep either MJ or AC???????? At this point, having kept AC would have been my preference.

Silly.

[HoosierCat]

Well, this might explain things a bit: one former agent thinks Burfict could command $9 million/year on the open market.

/>http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2014/06/07/kaepernick-like-contract-comes-dalton-push/10183491/

In other words, "Geno Atkins money." That's a lot to choke down but they have to pay someone eventually...right?

So, with AJ possibly locked up till 2016 (5th year option then Franchise tag), Dalton waiting it out, Burfict in the hopper for a raise, I'd like someone to tell me again how they couldn't keep either MJ or AC???????? At this point, having kept AC would have been my preference.

Silly.

Welcome to my world. This is where the lack of FO experience tells.

[Kazkal]

Well, this might explain things a bit: one former agent thinks Burfict could command $9 million/year on the open market.

/>http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2014/06/07/kaepernick-like-contract-comes-dalton-push/10183491/

In other words, "Geno Atkins money." That's a lot to choke down but they have to pay someone eventually...right?

Key word open market well he should be paid top two of his position but he has two years left in contract and can be franchised so he should be williing to give some of a discount

[ArmyBengal]

I can't say as I get what the heck they are doing in regards to extensions for these guys either.

All that cap space sitting there waiting to be used and doing nothing to lock things up with some of these guys.

I'm sure something still gets done with at least one or two guys before the start of the season, but it's frustrating to sit back and wait.

All the pushing of cap space from one season to the next in preparation to lock people up and then nothing but watching guys walk away.

I will say that the walking away still doesn't bother me all that much. They weren't ever going to invest that much in the d-line so MJ was inevitable.

Again, AC wanted the starters LT job and so did Whit. They weren't paying AC starters money to be a backup. We can argue that they made the wrong decision in giving the job back to Whit and telling him this is how it is, but that's not how it went down.

I think the d-line is still going to be very solid this season, but I don't like the depth for the o-line.

I just want to see them get something done and continue moving with these guys. They've earned it so I don't understand being so apprehensive.

Burfict really needs to be the focus at this point with everything else seemingly put on hold.

[HoosierCat]

Key word open market well he should be paid top two of his position but he has two years left in contract and can be franchised so he should be williing to give some of a discount

Maybe, but consider: You have three guys in Green, Dalton and Burfict who have all inarguably outplayed their contracts by a wide, wide margin. Now, maybe Andy's a crazy man who wants twenty bazillion a year, but what does it say that they are dickering on Burfict and won't even talk to Green about a new deal? That instead of paying guys who have earned it, they work all the angles at their disposal to squeeze every last play out of those bargain-basement contracts? And then players are expected to take a discounted deal? I know in that situation I would be disinclined to do that.

@army: yah, MJ and AC were probably lost causes but don't forget their attempt to squeeze every last nickel ended up costing us Hawkins as well. But hey, we drafted some WR who only plays teams, so there's that!

[ArmyBengal]

Them tendering Hawkins at the lower level seems to be the mistake they made, but then again, maybe they weren't all that concerned in losing him.

I'm thinking they simply thought no one would bite on him and blew it. The Browns overpaid, but it wouldn't have cost them much to ensure he stayed.

The front office needs to figure this sh*t out though, because pushing things off is only going to result in seeing more players walk away.

If it's too much to hand out deals this year, what is it going to look like to do those same players next year when you add in the UFA's coming due in 2015 ?? If you haven't seen that list, go look. 2016 ?? Just ridiculous how many starters are on that list.

[HoosierCat]

Speaking of Hawkins, someone on the .com boards plucked this quote from the Clowns site:

“The way the offensive staff draws these plays up, I don’t want to say it takes pressure off the player, but, it’s the way an offense should be run,” Hawkins said. “They put guys in a position to do what’s best for the team. And that takes a lot of pressure of the players as opposed to some offensive coordinators that say, ‘Hey, make this play work.’”

I have no idea if he's talking about Jay in that last sentence, but it would explain some of the oddball playcalling/personnel choices, like running Gio straight up the middle or the "go long to Frodo" bombs to Hawk.

Of course, even if true it wouldn't be anything new in Cincy. The team has a loooooong history of trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Speaking of Hawkins, someone on the .com boards plucked this quote from the Clowns site:

“The way the offensive staff draws these plays up, I don’t want to say it takes pressure off the player, but, it’s the way an offense should be run,” Hawkins said. “They put guys in a position to do what’s best for the team. And that takes a lot of pressure of the players as opposed to some offensive coordinators that say, ‘Hey, make this play work.’”

I have no idea if he's talking about Jay in that last sentence, but it would explain some of the oddball playcalling/personnel choices, like running Gio straight up the middle or the "go long to Frodo" bombs to Hawk.

Of course, even if true it wouldn't be anything new in Cincy. The team has a loooooong history of trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

Hey, I like pounding pegs in holes. Oh wait that is a different subject. Carry on.

[kingwilly]

I can't say as I get what the heck they are doing in regards to extensions for these guys either.

All that cap space sitting there waiting to be used and doing nothing to lock things up with some of these guys.

I'm sure something still gets done with at least one or two guys before the start of the season, but it's frustrating to sit back and wait.

All the pushing of cap space from one season to the next in preparation to lock people up and then nothing but watching guys walk away.

I will say that the walking away still doesn't bother me all that much. They weren't ever going to invest that much in the d-line so MJ was inevitable.

Again, AC wanted the starters LT job and so did Whit. They weren't paying AC starters money to be a backup. We can argue that they made the wrong decision in giving the job back to Whit and telling him this is how it is, but that's not how it went down.

I think the d-line is still going to be very solid this season, but I don't like the depth for the o-line.

I just want to see them get something done and continue moving with these guys. They've earned it so I don't understand being so apprehensive.

Burfict really needs to be the focus at this point with everything else seemingly put on hold.

It is frustrating, and it does reek of FO befuddlement. I mean, none of us really know how hard it is to run an NFL franchise, so there's that.

I view the decision on AC as the best and cheapest insurance policy against a significant injury to the Oline. With AC, he could handle RT or LT at a very high, maybe even elite, level. Whit can go inside to LG, or maybe even RG if the world imploded. Paying AC almost starter money to be the guy on standby, when in a make/break year for Dalton, seems lie the best and cheapest insurance policy to me. Especially now that they will play money games pushing Green out a couple of years, and have no hurry to re-sign Dalton....

Only guy I see with a new deal before Game 1 is Burfict, and he is probably the most deserving of a raise in the entire NFL.

[ArmyBengal]

If that report was true that Collins wanted the starting LT spot and Whit wasn't willing to move inside permanently to accomodate him, his fate was sealed. Not only weren't they going to pay him starter's money to be a backup, but Collins wanted no part of it when he knew he could be starting on many other teams in the league.

The only way he was going to stay is if the team had told Whit he was going to be move inside permanently and that was the end of discussion.

That didn't happen. Collins walked. Newhouse is signed. Bengals see 3rd round comp pick in 2015.

I guess we just hope for the best and be happy come the next draft with the extra pick huh ??

[Earendil]

Speaking of Hawkins, someone on the .com boards plucked this quote from the Clowns site:

“The way the offensive staff draws these plays up, I don’t want to say it takes pressure off the player, but, it’s the way an offense should be run,” Hawkins said. “They put guys in a position to do what’s best for the team. And that takes a lot of pressure of the players as opposed to some offensive coordinators that say, ‘Hey, make this play work.’”

I have no idea if he's talking about Jay in that last sentence, but it would explain some of the oddball playcalling/personnel choices, like running Gio straight up the middle or the "go long to Frodo" bombs to Hawk.

Of course, even if true it wouldn't be anything new in Cincy. The team has a loooooong history of trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

"go long to Frodo"

[HoosierCat]

Bumped for another great read on Burfict, this one (surprise!) from Doc:

/>http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2014/08/16/cincinnati-bengals-vontaze-burfict/14159043/

[ArmyBengal]

The only "read" I want to see on Burfict is where the Bengals have locked him up on a long term deal.

But yeah, nice read.