Excerpts From NFL Honors

[gregcook68]

Excerpts from Kurt Warner and John Harbaugh:

» Kurt Warner quarterbacked three teams to the Super Bowl, the first one at age 28 and the last one at 37, so he doesn't think the Bengals should pull the plug on Andy Dalton, turning 27 in the middle of next season.

"Sometimes we forget that these guys are 23, 24 years old and we ask them to do so much. I understand it's about winning championships. It takes some time," said Warner, an NFL Network analyst. "What I've seen is he continues to get better. And if a guy continues to get better, I think you have to give him the leeway until he maxes out his talent. We've got to see what we have here.

"How do you not make him the guy? He sets franchise records, he did so many great things this year. He leads you to the division title. ... The biggest thing for Andy is just like everyone is saying. When you get to playoff time, you know the teams that go on are the teams where the quarterback steps up and separates himself. He's still a young kid that's done some amazing things and the next step is to transfer what he does in the regular season to the postseason."

» The Bengals change of offensive and defensive coordinators has been duly noted by Ravens head coach John Harbaugh, honored for his service to the military. With Hue Jackson replacing Jay Gruden on offense and Paul Guenther replacing Mike Zimmer on defense, Harbaugh still sees the AFC North as a four-team bloodbath.

He knows all about Jackson. Jackson was one of his first hires when Harbaugh took over the Ravens in 2008 as quarterbacks coach and took Jackson's counsel in the drafting and developing of Joe Flacco.

"He did a ton for Flacco. He came in and had success out of the gate," Harbaugh said. "I think they've had great coaches all along. He’ll do a good job. Paul's been with Mike the whole time, he knows the system, knows the scheme. I'm sure they're not planning on missing a beat. Bengals-Ravens. Ravens-Steelers. Bengals-Steelers. The Browns will be there. Great division."

[redsbengalsbucks]

Excerpts from Kurt Warner and John Harbaugh:

» Kurt Warner quarterbacked three teams to the Super Bowl, the first one at age 28 and the last one at 37, so he doesn't think the Bengals should pull the plug on Andy Dalton, turning 27 in the middle of next season.

"Sometimes we forget that these guys are 23, 24 years old and we ask them to do so much. I understand it's about winning championships. It takes some time," said Warner, an NFL Network analyst. "What I've seen is he continues to get better. And if a guy continues to get better, I think you have to give him the leeway until he maxes out his talent. We've got to see what we have here.

"How do you not make him the guy? He sets franchise records, he did so many great things this year. He leads you to the division title. ... The biggest thing for Andy is just like everyone is saying. When you get to playoff time, you know the teams that go on are the teams where the quarterback steps up and separates himself. He's still a young kid that's done some amazing things and the next step is to transfer what he does in the regular season to the postseason."

» The Bengals change of offensive and defensive coordinators has been duly noted by Ravens head coach John Harbaugh, honored for his service to the military. With Hue Jackson replacing Jay Gruden on offense and Paul Guenther replacing Mike Zimmer on defense, Harbaugh still sees the AFC North as a four-team bloodbath.

He knows all about Jackson. Jackson was one of his first hires when Harbaugh took over the Ravens in 2008 as quarterbacks coach and took Jackson's counsel in the drafting and developing of Joe Flacco.

"He did a ton for Flacco. He came in and had success out of the gate," Harbaugh said. "I think they've had great coaches all along. He’ll do a good job. Paul's been with Mike the whole time, he knows the system, knows the scheme. I'm sure they're not planning on missing a beat. Bengals-Ravens. Ravens-Steelers. Bengals-Steelers. The Browns will be there. Great division."

Yes, the Browns will be there. In fourth place again, is what I assume he means.

[ArmyBengal]

The Browns aren't much more than a QB away from being back in the mix.

Their roster has more than a few players I would insert as a starter for us immediately.

Their issue continues to be decisions by the coaching staff and front office.

If they get their QB in the first round (they have two picks) and the FO makes better decisions in 2014, they could be in the mix.

The Bengals simply need to hire a team psychologist.

[COB]

Below is an excerpt from an article on NFL.com by Chris Wesseling. I agree with just about everything in this excerpt. Quarterback purgatory is a bad place to be! Stuck with mediocrity, and afraid to jump into a new quarterback. In spite of my complaints about Dalton, I know that Marvin can't take a trip to the quarterback orchard and pick a new one. Significant highlight - the writer referred to Andy's playoff games as, "a trio of January faceplants". That's good writing! The whole article can be found here:Dalton Holding Bengals Offense Back

The Cincinnati Bengals had the better team Sunday. They didn't have the better quarterback.

The Bengals entered the game undefeated at home and 4-0 against teams that made the playoffs. They exited the game with a third consecutive wild-card round loss in which the offense imploded, failing to top 13 points.

With two head-scratching interceptions and a back-breaking fumble in Sunday's 27-10 loss to the San Diego Chargers, Andy Dalton now has one touchdown versus seven turnovers in a trio of January face-plants.

Dalton entered the league with a reputation as a poor man's Matt Ryan, underwhelming as a thrower but NFL-ready with plus intangibles and fundamentals.

Three years later, there has been no growth. The only difference is that it's Dalton's decision-making rather than his arm strength that is preventing the Bengals' offense from reaching its potential.

Although Dalton has broken numerous franchise records in an inflated era for passing stats, he has been maddeningly inconsistent in terms of ball placement, pocket presence and field vision.

Thanks to the Carson Palmer windfall, a series of astute draft picks and a healthy salary-cap situation, the Bengals have built a deep roster ready to contend.

They continue to harbor the league's longest postseason losing streak in large part because their quarterback has demonstrated traits that cricket fans refer to as those of a "flat-track bully." He feasts on inferior competition while failing to elevate his game or the play of his teammates on the big stage.

Quarterback purgatory is a tricky proposition for NFL organizations.

Dubious of their ability to find an upgrade, the Bills set the franchise back a few years by committing to a known mediocrity in Ryan Fitzpatrick. Armed with a quarterback propped up by his defense and ground attack, the Jets went down the rabbit hole with Mark Sanchez.

Finding himself faced with a similar conundrum, Bengals coach Marvin Lewis has doubled down on Dalton.

"I don't have any questions about Andy's role," Lewis said after the game.

It takes a confident, creative plan to pull an organization out of quarterback limbo.

Those bold strokes are lost on Lewis, as evidenced by his game management during his team's five-game postseason losing skid.

Mediocrity is anathema to the NFL's best-run franchises. This one is more likely to hitch itself to Dalton's fallen star, committing to long-term morass rather than turning over every rock for an ascendent talent.

[gregcook68]

What is Wesseling doing wasting his time as a journalist? He needs to be an NFL GM!

Fans need to start petitioning MB to give up his GM hat, and hire this guy before somebody else does!

He has more football mind than the Bengals staff put together!

Maybe this is the missing link the Bengals have needed all along!!

[COB]

Don't like Wesseling? Maybe try Luke Hughes. Ah, you might not like him either. Here's an excerpt and the link to a column he wrote.

I didn't excerpt it but in the column, if you click on the link, he had an interesting comparison, Flacco vs. Dalton. He basically said Flacco is a very average quarterback during the regular season, who then is super clutch in playoff games. He contrasts that with Dalton who produces what he referred to as "eye popping" numbers during the regular season, then chokes in playoff games.

He also throws out Derek Carr as a potential draft pick, and accuses Marvin Lewis of blowing smoke when it comes to proclaiming Andy the untouchable, unquestioned, starter. Best line - "Dalton hasn't even earned a place among the posers."

Linkage: http://nesn.com/2014/01/cincinnati-bengals-should-start-looking-for-new-quarterback-because-andy-dalton-has-serious-playoff-problems/

But, just as optimism for Cincinnati’s first playoff win in 14 seasons reached an all-time high, Andy Dalton happened.

Dalton threw two interceptions and turned the ball over three times altogether on Sunday, doing everything but serving the Chargers the win on a silver platter. The 27-10 loss marked the third time in three seasons that the Bengals have fallen in the opening round of the playoffs, and, while it might seem somewhat unfair, Dalton is the one to blame.

Now, after a third consecutive letdown in the postseason, it might be time for Marvin Lewis to start his search for a new quarterback.

Sure, it’s difficult to find a quality quarterback in the NFL. Only half the teams in the league have committed to a quarterback for at least the near future, and even fewer have found a “franchise quarterback” — no matter how much money they’ve invested in him. Only six quarterbacks in the NFL right now can truly claim the “franchise” label — Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger – with plenty of wannabes lining up behind them. Meanwhile, Dalton hasn’t even earned a place among the posers.

Over the last three seasons, Dalton has grown into a better and more dynamic passer. His yardage and touchdown totals continue to rise — career highs of 4,296 yards and 33 touchdowns this season — during the regular season, but he continues to choke away any goodwill he’s built up in the postseason.

[gregcook68]

I have nothing but positives about Wesseling! Chris Wesseling? Luke Hughes? Either one could fill the GM spot, but the Bengals only have one GM spot available.

I would never disagree or bash hiring someone who has an outstanding football mind!

Head this campaign up Cobster! I think you'd have a good shot at getting Brown's attention!

I'll even volunteer to help you!

[volcom69]

It dosnt matter who is writing the articles we are going to hear this all offseason. Dalton is not the only problem, but it will be nice to see some big improvements from him. Hopefully he cuts back on the turnovers next year.

[gregcook68]

It dosnt matter who is writing the articles we are going to hear this all offseason. Dalton is not the only problem, but it will be nice to see some big improvements from him. Hopefully he cuts back on the turnovers next year.

Turnovers have always been one of the Bengals top nemesis!

[ArmyBengal]

Hey you know what would be a great idea ??

Have Marvin move into the GM spot and then have Zimmer take over head coaching responsibilities !!!

Oh yeah...

Wasn't going to happen then, now, or anytime in the foreseeable future.

[HoosierCat]

An excerpt from Deadspin's Big Book of Black Quarterbacks:

Akili Smith | 1999-2002 | Cincinnati Bengals

Drafted, 1st round (3 overall) | 22 games (17 starts) | 2,212 yards passing | 5 passing TDs | 13 INTs | 46.6 comp. % | 52.8 QB rating | 371 yards rushing | 1 rushing TD | 19 fumbles

"He has the charisma and confidence and looks."—Associated Press

If you remember Akili Smith's name, it's probably for one reason and one reason alone: Smith is one of the biggest draft busts, and one of the worst quarterbacks, in the history of the NFL. The Cincinnati Bengals drafted him in 1999 with the third overall pick, and he held out of training camp and two weeks of preseason until the Bengals offered him a seven-year, $56 million contract. He was worth it, they thought. He was not.

The Bengals didn't know that at the time, though. They and their fans hoped that Akili would end a nine-year playoff drought stretching back to the Esiason era. Instead, Smith washed out of the league in spectacular fashion in four years. He threw a pathetic five touchdowns against 13 interceptions and put the ball on the ground 19 times. He had a habit of holding the ball in the pocket, which would be bad enough with his porous offensive line, but was a disaster when coupled with the fact that he wasn't good at looking off his receivers. In the four seasons he was on the team, the Bengals won only 16 games and never came close to a .500 season. Cincy wouldn't make the playoffs again until 2005.

You can't blame Smith for being so wildly overrated; it's no great sin to be a terrible player. The question is what the complete fuck the Bengals saw in him. The 1999 draft was insane, packed with future talents like Donovan McNabb, Edgerrin James, Ricky Williams, Champ Bailey, Chris McAlister, Daunte Culpepper, and Jevon Kearse—and that was just the top half of the first round. There were sure things all up and down the board. The Bengals could have picked almost anyone, at random, and come out better. So how did they end up with Darko Milicic in pads?

At 6-foot-3, 225 pounds, having run a 4.66 40-yard dash at the combine, Smith, a one-year starter in college, had all the trappings of a future star, not to mention an appealing air of mystery. After two years at junior college, he had transferred to Oregon, where he didn't start until his senior year and where he threw for 32 touchdowns and only seven interceptions. But he wasn't the product of some gimmick college offense—or at least he didn't seem like one. He had a blur release and could hit receivers anywhere downfield. He was a player to build a dream on.

"Well you can just see it," Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan told Sports Illustrated before the draft. "Just a flick of the wrist he can throw the ball 55-60 yards downfield, no effort. You can see the arm strength. You can see he doesn't have to wind up. He can make a throw that only a great athlete can make."

The 1999 draft was special because it was a banner year for black quarterbacks. Of the 13 taken, eight were African-American. Most of them, like McNabb, Smith, Culpepper, Shaun King, and Aaron Brooks, were seen as dual-threat physical specimens—an evolutionary step beyond weak-armed Kordell Stewart. Smith might have been more of a project than the others since he'd had only one full season under his belt. But head coach Bruce Coslet, despite never having had a winning season as a head coach, held a reputation around the league as a sort of QB whisperer. "Coslet was an assistant in San Francisco when Joe Montana was there," wrote John Oehser of the Florida Times-Union."He was an assistant in Cincinnati when Ken Anderson was there, and was offensive coordinator the season Boomer Esiason won MVP, 1988. He coached [Jeff] Blake when he made the Pro Bowl in 1995." If anyone was going to fashion the raw minerals into gold, the thought process went, Coslet was the man.

So how'd everyone get Akili so wrong? One theory: It's less true now, though the tendency lingers, but at the time there was a certain exoticism attached to black QBs, as if they'd sprung from nowhere in the months before the draft with limitless physical potential that needed only to be harnessed and molded by a good coach. Black QBs were seen, more than anything else, as projectable, different from white quarterbacks, with whom the question was whether they were NFL-ready. (You saw the same dynamic in the NBA over the past decade, with European players—like Darko Milicic.) The thing is that this was entirely in the collective head of the NFL's coaches and scouts and executives. Steve McNair was the last quarterback drafted in the first round from an HBCU, in 1996, and he was a rarity. By 1999, all the top black quarterback prospects were products of the same schools that were churning out white quarterbacks. They played against the same competition. They were known quantities. Akili warranted the same skepticism with which nearly all one-season college wonders are regarded. Instead, he slipped through the cracks. It's a funny bookend to the century: A black quarterback, whose forebears were underscrutinized and underrated, had now been underscrutinized and overrated.

[HoosierCat]

PFF: Andy Dalton is a franchise QB.

/>http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-contrarian-andy-dalton-is-a-franchise-qb/

[gregcook68]

PFF: Andy Dalton is a franchise QB.

/>http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-contrarian-andy-dalton-is-a-franchise-qb/

I'm going to remain a spectator on this post and see if any fur flies!

[COB]

PFF: Andy Dalton is a franchise QB.

/>http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-contrarian-andy-dalton-is-a-franchise-qb/

I learned something from that article.

"Nobody had a bigger split in 2013 between his quality of play versus good defenses and his quality of play versus bad defenses."

That was something I sort of knew about Dalton, but I had no idea someone actually produced some kind of statistical matrix, plugged in data, and quantified how you played vs good and bad defenses. Dalton truly feasts on the weak more effectively than any other NFL quarterback.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, I guess I will say it's nice to have a QB that can beat the teams they are suppose to beat, because we haven't always had that.

I'm still in Dalton's corner, but he needs to cut down on turnovers.

It didn't appear to me that he always made great decisions either, so I don't know about that one.

The slant in the article was more about how quickly he got the ball out, but what about when he didn't ??

Also, I agree with the thought of Gruden being an issue.

The targets to Eifert (56) is a real shame in my opinion.

Yeah I think he had some route running issues early on, but you don't have your 1st round pass, catching machine getting less targets than 5 other guys. He was underutilized big time.

[HoosierCat]

PFF: Andy Dalton is a franchise QB.

/>http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-contrarian-andy-dalton-is-a-franchise-qb/

I learned something from that article.

"Nobody had a bigger split in 2013 between his quality of play versus good defenses and his quality of play versus bad defenses."

That was something I sort of knew about Dalton, but I had no idea someone actually produced some kind of statistical matrix, plugged in data, and quantified how you played vs good and bad defenses. Dalton truly feasts on the weak more effectively than any other NFL quarterback.

I would say it's more of an artifact of the schedule. Dalton had his best games against Green Bay (ranked 25th on D last season), Detroit (16), Buffalo (10), NYJ (11), Indy (20) and Minnesota (31). That's a pretty good spread of defensive quality. What skews the numbers is Dalton's struggles in the division, particularly against Cleveland. He had two bad outings against the Browns, who finished 8th on D, and two bad games against Baltimore, which finished 12th.

Baltimore has been kryptonite for Andy his whole career. His ratings in six games are 60.7, 65.7, 65.3, 101.5, 52.2 and 62.2. And that one good 101.5 game was the last game of 2012 when he only played half the game and both teams were resting starters ahead of the playoffs. Cleveland isn't quite as bad but in his first three games against the Browns he was 100+, then in the fourth game slid to 87.3, the this year had a 58.2 and 62.7.

And in case you're wondering, lifetime against Pittsburgh he's 61.8, 77.6, 56.4, 58.8, 81.7 and 86.4, the last two games coming in 2013, when Pitt finished 13th on D.

The same thing is true to a lesser extent when we are talking about the infamous nine prime time games in which Andy has so often wilted. Four of those games were against Baltimore and Pittsburgh, teams he has struggled against whether it was prime time or not. So I think the issue is less one of "Dalton can't beat good defenses," and more that the rest of the division has had his (and/or Jay Gruden's) number. IMHO, this is where Hue needs to work hardest.

[HoosierCat]

I'm still in Dalton's corner, but he needs to cut down on turnovers.

Just as an addendum to my previous post, it would be more accurate to say "he needs to cut down on turnovers against AFCN teams."

For his career, Dalton has 80 TDs against 49 interceptions.

Against non-AFCN teams, he's thrown 56 TDs and 26 interceptions.

Against division opponents, he has 24 TDs and 23 interceptions.

Once again, it's Baltimore doing much of the damage. Andy has 11 career picks, almost a quarter of his total interceptions, in six games against the Ravens.