Scoreboard Issue Bubbling Up

[TJJackson]

If I am a County Commissioner, I respond as follows

3) Go ahead and sue us to your hearts content

Why go about it this way? The county has lost every other court case vs the Bengals. Why add to their costs by having a court confirm what the Bengals have already said: that the lease says: "you owe us for a scoreboard"?

I wouldnt bother sending a lawyer to defend it, ergo it'd add no costs

Let the judge declare an uncontested victory for the Bengals

Based on last Sunday, it might be one of the few wins for the Bengals this year

[TJJackson]

Because people would rather stomp their feet and pout than just admit reality and work within the confines of the law

The money isn't there

If (for example) you sued me for <whatever> and won a million dollar settlement, I'd still laugh and ignore you, since I flat dont have the million dollars to give you, even if I wanted to follow the law. File another lawsuit for non-payment and it'd make no difference, the money still isn't there no matter how many lawsuits you file. and so on.

And ignore it all you want that the man who brokered this ridiculous deal now works for them, but it remains a fact

There is law, and there is what is right, and they arent always the same thing.

It is lawful that the Bengals get a scoreboard, but it isn't right.

so - taking a queue from Army - F*CK YOU, Mike Brown!

[COB]

If I am a County Commissioner, I respond as follows

3) Go ahead and sue us to your hearts content

Why go about it this way? The county has lost every other court case vs the Bengals. Why add to their costs by having a court confirm what the Bengals have already said: that the lease says: "you owe us for a scoreboard"?

I wouldnt bother sending a lawyer to defend it, ergo it'd add no costs

Let the judge declare an uncontested victory for the Bengals

Based on last Sunday, it might be one of the few wins for the Bengals this year

Genius! Until you notice that along with the declaratory judgment in favor of the Bengals, the judge granted their (uncontested since you are too smart to hire a lawyer) motion for attorney's fees. Now you are on the hook for the scoreboard, and for whatever Katie Blackburn decides to bill you for.

[TJJackson]

....and I dont have that money either

so what next?

Mind you, I understand the difference between what is legally correct and what is right

What the Bengals arranged with Bedinghaus' complicity was not right, regardless of the signatures that make it perfectly legal

And it should (by what is right, not what is legal) be possible to file criminal charges against Bedinghaus and put him on the hook personally for every red cent the Bengals want

[COB]

The money isn't there

If (for example) you sued me for <whatever> and won a million dollar settlement, I'd still laugh and ignore you, since I flat dont have the million dollars to give you, even if I wanted to follow the law. File another lawsuit for non-payment and it'd make no difference, the money still isn't there no matter how many lawsuits you file. and so on.

Again, genius! The old "Take your judgment and hang it on your office wall" gambit. You have nothing, so you're judgment proof, or so you think. The party that wins the judgment will probably have bothered to hire legal counsel. Legal counsel will file a motion for a judgment debtor exam. It will be granted. You will show up in court. And this sounds absurd, but this will happen. The judge will order you to show him what is in your wallet. He'll have the bailiff take whatever cash you have and apply it toward the judgment. He'll take your watch and any other jewelry on your person. Then he'll force you to take the stand under oath and talk about your employer, your savings, etc. They'll get account numbers and seize your assets. Then they'll take a part of every paycheck you earn in the future and apply it toward the judgment, until the judgment is paid in full or until you are dead. Then your estate can enjoy the same treatment. Welcome to a legal system created by, and for, those with means.

[TJJackson]

Harder to take the county's watch

or pants

or whatever

[BengalByTheBay]

Harder to take the county's watch

or pants

or whatever

Not really

"Bond Measure"

[COB]

What the Bengals arranged with Bedinghaus' complicity was not right, regardless of the signatures that make it perfectly legal

I don't live down there, so though I'm vaguely familiar with the whole thing, though I do know this character worked for the county, was involved in the ballot initiatives, then went to work for the Bengals. Can't say I'd feel too good about that situation, either.

[kingwilly]

TJ, I think the point is you simply can't ignore legal wranglings... Bad move always.

The county still is bent over by the Brown family, and they don't have a clean way out. They can fight it and renegotiate but the contracts in place seem to favor the Bengals. Which sucks.

What's even more frustrating is the county has made so many missteps undoing what's happened is impossible.

[TJJackson]

*shrug*

cant squeeze water out of a stone

[kingwilly]

*shrug*

cant squeeze water out of a stone

To a person, no. But the life of the stone can get very unpleasant.

To a County, yes. There is always a way to raise taxes, pass bonds, get loans, reach settlements, etc. The County isn't a person.

[TJJackson]

Were I a county commissioner, I would refuse to apply for loans, or to sell bonds, or etc etc

I would bring the people's attention to the criminally bad deal that a current Bengals employee set up when he was supposedly on "our side"

and I would delay and delay and delay and delay

The Bengals may (err do) **legally** deserve that scoreboard but not in terms of simple right and wrong.

Settle? Maybe, if it were for a box of lightbulbs to replace some that are burned out in the current FULLY FUNCTIONAL NOT A THING WRONG WITH IT scoreboard.

[TJJackson]

Ah, yes, and "send me a bill, Mikey, we'll be sure to get that right down to accounts payable right away, yessir"

from: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/10/3/4798116/bengals-officially-requested-scoreboard-upgrade

If the county refuses to pay for the upgrade, the Bengals can go ahead and purchase the upgrade and then bill county.

Even better, have Bedinghaus personally deliver me the bill

[ArmyBengal]

I would like to know what the Bengals attorney meant (dollar wise) when he said the organization was willing to help.

1 million ?? 2.5 ?? 5 ?? 10 bucks ?? What ?? I do think it's good they are at least saying they are willing.

As to how they handle it, if it's raising anything, I would prefer sales tax.

That way, everyone who actually spends money in the county would be pitching in.

I simply don't think it's fair to say it's on the back of homeowners alone.

My part of property tax isn't really that much, but it's the combination of things the property tax gets increased for that hits you.

Everything just keeps getting lumped into raising property tax that it has become a standard way of thinking.

[Sea Ray]

Because people would rather stomp their feet and pout than just admit reality and work within the confines of the law

The money isn't there

If (for example) you sued me for <whatever> and won a million dollar settlement, I'd still laugh and ignore you, since I flat dont have the million dollars to give you, even if I wanted to follow the law. File another lawsuit for non-payment and it'd make no difference, the money still isn't there no matter how many lawsuits you file. and so on.

And ignore it all you want that the man who brokered this ridiculous deal now works for them, but it remains a fact

There is law, and there is what is right, and they arent always the same thing.

It is lawful that the Bengals get a scoreboard, but it isn't right.

so - taking a queue from Army - F*CK YOU, Mike Brown!

That strategy only works if the county declares bankruptcy. As long as they're solvent, MB will pry the money out of them

[Sea Ray]

I would like to know what the Bengals attorney meant (dollar wise) when he said the organization was willing to help.

1 million ?? 2.5 ?? 5 ?? 10 bucks ?? What ?? I do think it's good they are at least saying they are willing.

As to how they handle it, if it's raising anything, I would prefer sales tax.

That way, everyone who actually spends money in the county would be pitching in.

I simply don't think it's fair to say it's on the back of homeowners alone.

My part of property tax isn't really that much, but it's the combination of things the property tax gets increased for that hits you.

Everything just keeps getting lumped into raising property tax that it has become a standard way of thinking.

Willing to help? I can tell you what that means. It means they'll pay something now if the county agrees to give them something of value later. It's no free lunch. It's not that they'll just "give" the county X million dollars like it's some sort of charity. The Reds "gave" the county a break on their scoreboard in exchange for other concessions in their lease that made it beneficial for them to do so. From the Bengals perspective, they ought not feel that the county will be in any better financial shape years from now. It's gov't. They'll always be strapped for cash

[ArmyBengal]

I would like to know what the Bengals attorney meant (dollar wise) when he said the organization was willing to help.

1 million ?? 2.5 ?? 5 ?? 10 bucks ?? What ?? I do think it's good they are at least saying they are willing.

As to how they handle it, if it's raising anything, I would prefer sales tax.

That way, everyone who actually spends money in the county would be pitching in.

I simply don't think it's fair to say it's on the back of homeowners alone.

My part of property tax isn't really that much, but it's the combination of things the property tax gets increased for that hits you.

Everything just keeps getting lumped into raising property tax that it has become a standard way of thinking.

Willing to help? I can tell you what that means. It means they'll pay something now if the county agrees to give them something of value later. It's no free lunch. It's not that they'll just "give" the county X million dollars like it's some sort of charity. The Reds "gave" the county a break on their scoreboard in exchange for other concessions in their lease that made it beneficial for them to do so. From the Bengals perspective, they ought not feel that the county will be in any better financial shape years from now. It's gov't. They'll always be strapped for cash

And to that I say whatever the team is willing to do should be looked at postively.

When push comes to shove, they don't have to be willing to do anything.

[HoosierCat]

My sources say that the Bengals will pay the full $10 million for the scoreboard if the county agrees to the following terms:

1. Hamilton County must change its name to "Bengalton County."

2. Any Bengalton Co. politician who votes for a tax increase has to wear a Steelers uniform to work for the next year.

3. The RR Cross County Highway must be renamed the "Paul Brown Parkway."

4. Fountain Square statue must be recast to better resemble Pumpkie.

5. All county vehicles switched to Luminas.

[TJJackson]

Have them pay for it with a every-pay deduction from Bedinghaus' paycheck

[HoosierCat]

It appears a deal has been struck.

The Cincinnati Bengals waived height restrictions at The Banks, paving the way for General Electric to possibly locate a new office at the riverfront development – and allowing construction to begin on a 291-unit apartment complex.

In exchange, there will be upgrades to Paul Brown Stadium, some of which The Bengals will pay for.

The deal was hammered out over the past four days as commissioners prioritized a riverfront deal to land GE, which has announced its bring up to 2,000 jobs to the area. Also under consideration: Mason and Oakley. Bids are due to GE Friday.

Hamilton County Commissioners Republican Greg Hartmann and Democrat Todd Portune signed off on the deal, with Republican Chris Monzel abstaining from the vote because he works at GE Aviation.

It’s a turning point for the county and the Bengals, who have long been at odds over taxpayer-owner Paul Brown Stadium. Portune in particular has villainized the Bengals, twice suing the team in an attempt to secure a better deal for taxpayers.

For their part The Bengals are agreeing to pay for some of the upgrades – something they didn’t have do under their lease.

The devil is in the details of course but this sounds like a good deal.

[ArmyBengal]

I thought I read somewhere else that part of this also included not only the scoreboards but expanding the weight room and other facilities at the stadium. The funny part about that was the thought of being able to get a professional MSL soccer team in Cincinnati. I hadn't heard anything about that before. Maybe it was on ESPN??

[HoosierCat]

Yeah I saw that as well, not sure where, probably CJ.

[ArmyBengal]

Here it is:
/>http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/7009/bengals-paul-brown-stadium-upgrades-cincinnati-hamilton-ohio

[Kazkal]

if their gonna make them play in London Should be atleast after or before their bye week,

So it hurts them less traveling :|...Well most of the deal sounded good still hate the idea seeing them play in London.

[Walrus]

Y'know, it's hard enough for the team to sell out in Cincy. May as well take the show across the pond and see how the Brits like it. We wouldn't have to worry about a blackout!