Lewis must go

[combatbengal]

Dude, Gruden sucks just as bad as the rest of them. We got 5 min and 29 seconds left in the game. Ball is on our 11. We run up the middle twice and then over throw Green. End up punting the ball to Ben so he can run the clock down!!

I say fire Marvin this week and replace him with Hue Jackson.

Fine by me.

Can't see Lewis falling on the sword, can't see Mike Brown dropping the axe ....but if either did happen then Hue Jackson would get my shout to take over

i would rather see gruden take marv's job. really i just think he is the better coach. i personally think marvin has took the green light away from jay. what other reason is the drastic change from weeks 1- 4 to the past 3 weeks. went from being creative and aggressive to plain stale and vanilla. just saying. plus gruden has won every where he coached including as a player 6 time arena bowl champion, nfl superbowl champ with brother jon. 93-61 HC record in the arena league and a 11-7 playoff record.

then if marvin still has years on a contract no way in hell will mike ax him , unless he completely fails this season. even then mikey still probably won't s**t can marvin.

[cincy9275]

Dude, Gruden sucks just as bad as the rest of them. We got 5 min and 29 seconds left in the game. Ball is on our 11. We run up the middle twice and then over throw Green. End up punting the ball to Ben so he can run the clock down!!

I say fire Marvin this week and replace him with Hue Jackson.

Fine by me.

Can't see Lewis falling on the sword, can't see Mike Brown dropping the axe ....but if either did happen then Hue Jackson would get my shout to take over

i would rather see gruden take marv's job. really i just think he is the better coach. i personally think marvin has took the green light away from jay. what other reason is the drastic change from weeks 1- 4 to the past 3 weeks. went from being creative and aggressive to plain stale and vanilla. just saying. plus gruden has won every where he coached including as a player 6 time arena bowl champion, nfl superbowl champ with brother jon. 93-61 HC record in the arena league and a 11-7 playoff record.

then if marvin still has years on a contract no way in hell will mike ax him , unless he completely fails this season. even then mikey still probably won't s**t can marvin.

dude you don't think maybe that was Marvin's call? as it was Marvin's call on the 2 reviews, that were not even close. also Marvin's call not to go for it on 4th down against the phins. i believe Marvin at the very least told jay to dial it back some and run the ball more. teams making adjustment to our style plays in to it too. also i make a point jay has shown he can and is winning HC. yea granted not at this level yet. But there are a lot of head coaches that came from lesser competition and succeed. funny 3 weeks ago he was the man ... now he sucks lol laughable!

[HoosierCat]

I don't think there's a lot to be gained by trying to guess who made what call. What seems apparent to me is that, whatever the call, execution is poor. The simplest explanation for that is the lack of continuity on offense. Not only did they change half the starters in the offseason, but from preseason on they haven't been able to establish any stability. The interior of the o-line, for example, has gone through Wharton, Boling, Cook, Faine and Robinson on top of a new rookie starter in Zeitler. Virtually every wide receiver has been shuffled into a new role every game. The run game started with BJGE, then the plan was to work in more Scott, he lasted two carries and now they are trying more Peerman. The result is an offense with no flow or consistency. And that puts even more pressure on the few guys who are out there on a regular basis, like Dalton, Gresham and Green, and when they can't carry the whole O by themselves, they come under fire as well.

Compare this to last year. Yeah, Nate Livings was horribly inconsistent, but the o-line had less change in 16 games than we've had this year in 7. Simpson and Caldwell may have been here one game and gone the next, but they were the unquestioned 2 and 3. Benson was a sulky back with a lousy average but he was the bell cow. Despite the collective poorness of those players, the O managed to prouce well enough to beat bad teams consistently and squeak into the playoffs. Contrast that with this years game of musical chairs.

If the Bengals do one thing with the bye week, it ought to be to pick 11 guys on offense and stick with them.

[cincyhokie]

Players have come and gone through the years since 2003. One constant in that is Marvin Lewis...and his inability to handle big games, finish games, make halftime adjustments, and handle success.

Let's not try and make this more complicated than it is. Unless, of course, you think that the Dolphins, Browns, and injury decimated Steelers have better talent. In which case, it would be about personnel primarily. And if the Dolphins and Browns have better talent, let's pack in the season now.

[HoosierCat]

Players have come and gone through the years since 2003. One constant in that is Marvin Lewis...and his inability to handle big games, finish games, make halftime adjustments, and handle success.

Let's not try and make this more complicated than it is.

Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet and Dick LeBeau couldn't handle big games, finish games, make halftime adjustments or handle success either. You are right that there's been one constant, but it's not Marvin Lewis.

Unless, of course, you think that the Dolphins, Browns, and injury decimated Steelers have better talent. In which case, it would be about personnel primarily. And if the Dolphins and Browns have better talent, let's pack in the season now.

Right now I believe it is primarily about personnel. We know that Marvin and this coaching staff can do better. We've seen it. Can they win a big game? It doesn't look that way, but we know that given talent they can win 9, 10, 11 games a year. But this year they haven't got the horses and the constant shuffling is only making things worse.

[cincyhokie]

Right now I believe it is primarily about personnel. We know that Marvin and this coaching staff can do better. We've seen it. Can they win a big game? It doesn't look that way, but we know that given talent they can win 9, 10, 11 games a year. But this year they haven't got the horses and the constant shuffling is only making things worse.

So what we're saying is that it's Mike Brown's problem? I think we all know the answer. The coaching staff can win 9 to 11 games when not faced with stiff competition and big games. That's what we've learned. The proof has been in the playoff years with beating subpar teams, gassing out in the second half of seasons, finally to bow out in the playoffs on a whimper in all 3 appearances. So, no, I don't think they can do better given the upcoming schedule they have. And again, if it's a matter of personnel, then we're back to MB and I don't want to go there.....again.

"Have you ever heard of deja, deja, deja, deja vu?"

[HoosierCat]

So what we're saying is that it's Mike Brown's problem? I think we all know the answer.

Of course we do. All I'm saying is that the coaching issues you describe aren't unique to Lewis. Rather, they are par for the course for Bengals head coaches under Mike Brown's reign. (And to be fair to Mike, Paul wasn't exactly a hands-off big spender, either. But at least had real football talent.)

The coaching staff can win 9 to 11 games when not faced with stiff competition and big games. That's what we've learned.

Right. But the thing is, this season it hasn't even taken stiff competition to knock this team down. All that's needed is a stiff breeze. That's what points me at personnel. As to whose fault that is, the answer is everyone's. The FO doesn't want to spend money, so away go players like JJoe, Rucker and Fanene, and they try to replace them on the cheap with rookies and scrubs. Meanwhile, the coaches fall in love with guys in practice like Binns and Hawkins and think they can replace guys like Simpson and Caldwell. Talent evaluation fail. Then there are the players themselves who can't seem to execute the basic elements of their jobs, like running the right route, catching the ball or filling their assigned gap. Add in a frankly ridiculous amount of injuries and all the ingredients are in place for a bad season.

[cincyhokie]

So what we're saying is that it's Mike Brown's problem? I think we all know the answer.

Of course we do. All I'm saying is that the coaching issues you describe aren't unique to Lewis. Rather, they are par for the course for Bengals head coaches under Mike Brown's reign. (And to be fair to Mike, Paul wasn't exactly a hands-off big spender, either. But at least had real football talent.)

The coaching staff can win 9 to 11 games when not faced with stiff competition and big games. That's what we've learned.

Right. But the thing is, this season it hasn't even taken stiff competition to knock this team down. All that's needed is a stiff breeze. That's what points me at personnel. As to whose fault that is, the answer is everyone's. The FO doesn't want to spend money, so away go players like JJoe, Rucker and Fanene, and they try to replace them on the cheap with rookies and scrubs. Meanwhile, the coaches fall in love with guys in practice like Binns and Hawkins and think they can replace guys like Simpson and Caldwell. Talent evaluation fail. Then there are the players themselves who can't seem to execute the basic elements of their jobs, like running the right route, catching the ball or filling their assigned gap. Add in a frankly ridiculous amount of injuries and all the ingredients are in place for a bad season.

So we have less talent than Cleveland or Miami? Ok. So we're f**ked. At least we know the coaching staff isn't at fault.

[HoosierCat]

So we have less talent than Cleveland or Miami?

Looks that way, doesn't it? I'm not an expert on the Browns or Dolphins rosters, but the Bengals lineup strikes me as pretty unremarkable at the moment.

We have two legit blue-chip players, Green and Atkins.

Then there are a few red-chippers; above average but not elite guys. Whitworth, Smith and Dunlap fall in here. (Though I think it could be argued that Whit is sliding down.) If you grade on a curve maybe Nelson, Hall and Dalton, too.

Next are the average Joes. Peko, MJ, Newman, Clements, Crocker, Hawkins, Whalen, Pacman. Maybe Boling and Gresham. Again, if you aren't generous you could lump Nelson, Hall and Dalton here too.

And finally there's the scrap heap. Faine, BJGE, maybe Gresham. Binns and Tate. Geathers. Mays. Miles. Lawson. Maualuga. Note that everyone on that list except Miles was a starter week one.

I left off the rooks because it's tough to tell just seven games in. Zeitler and Burfict are at least average Joes. Give them more experience and I think they'll improve. Burfict may even make it to blue chip status if he can keep his head screwed on straight. As for the rest of the class it's been basically worthless, but it's early and there have been flashes. I think both Kirkpatrick and Jones could rise from the pack but they need to get on the field first.

[cincyhokie]

So we have less talent than Cleveland or Miami?

Looks that way, doesn't it? I'm not an expert on the Browns or Dolphins rosters, but the Bengals lineup strikes me as pretty unremarkable at the moment.

We have two legit blue-chip players, Green and Atkins.

Then there are a few red-chippers; above average but not elite guys. Whitworth, Smith and Dunlap fall in here. (Though I think it could be argued that Whit is sliding down.) If you grade on a curve maybe Nelson, Hall and Dalton, too.

Next are the average Joes. Peko, MJ, Newman, Clements, Crocker, Hawkins, Whalen, Pacman. Maybe Boling and Gresham. Again, if you aren't generous you could lump Nelson, Hall and Dalton here too.

And finally there's the scrap heap. Faine, BJGE, maybe Gresham. Binns and Tate. Geathers. Mays. Miles. Lawson. Maualuga. Note that everyone on that list except Miles was a starter week one.

I left off the rooks because it's tough to tell just seven games in. Zeitler and Burfict are at least average Joes. Give them more experience and I think they'll improve. Burfict may even make it to blue chip status if he can keep his head screwed on straight. As for the rest of the class it's been basically worthless, but it's early and there have been flashes. I think both Kirkpatrick and Jones could rise from the pack but they need to get on the field first.

Depressing. Who knew the losses of Kyle Cook, Jerome Simpson, Cedric Benson, and Frostee Rucker were so damaging? Rucker and Benson have been the biggest holes they haven't filled. This team and coaching staff has such a narrow path to success, it's downright sad.

My how we have fallen from 9-7 to below the Browns in talent from the loss of 3 FA's and an injury.

[deekster]

Sick of Lewis. Sick of terrible time management and replay wasting. Need to check on his review percentage. I know of three games he has lost both. Two of which were playoff games.

He is not smart. Routinely outcoached. Its embarrassing.

This season is pretty much toast.

Not sure if its good or not but, zimmer and Gruden stock has to be low around the league.

Steelers, browns, and Miami outplayed, outcoached the Bengals. And they are terrible.

I also fear that we are stuck with Dalton for years to come. Stuck with his bad decisions,bad accuracy. Bad ball security.

Being a Bengal fan right now feels so pointless.

Glad I boughta four game ticket pack thinking this team would show up for the fans. At least now I can go to the games and laugh and boo. A little fun in that.

Mike brown will see a large drop in revenue this year into next. He got lucky last year. Unless Marvin turns this around and gets to ten or eleven wins. Because we will win zero tie breakers.

Done with my rambling rant. Done with Bengals fora couple weeks. Been a bad month for cincy sports.

You hit it on the nose. I am just afraid that Andy Dalton is going to be another Carson Palmer after Palmer got hurt.

[HoosierCat]

Depressing.

In the short term, yes. The rest of this year is likely to be a downer. But I actually feel pretty good about the team going forward. Get the O a stud RB and a legit No. 2 WR and I think they perk way up. Address safety and LB on defense. Extend Moobs and Atkins. Get Cook back, Dre on the field, keep developing Vontaze. Bottom line, I think this year is a bump, not a collapse.

[cincyhokie]

Depressing.

In the short term, yes. The rest of this year is likely to be a downer. But I actually feel pretty good about the team going forward. Get the O a stud RB and a legit No. 2 WR and I think they perk way up. Address safety and LB on defense. Extend Moobs and Atkins. Get Cook back, Dre on the field, keep developing Vontaze. Bottom line, I think this year is a bump, not a collapse.

Awesome! I can't wait to start losing playoff games again!

[volcom69]

Depressing.

In the short term, yes. The rest of this year is likely to be a downer. But I actually feel pretty good about the team going forward. Get the O a stud RB and a legit No. 2 WR and I think they perk way up. Address safety and LB on defense. Extend Moobs and Atkins. Get Cook back, Dre on the field, keep developing Vontaze. Bottom line, I think this year is a bump, not a collapse.

Your a fan of Grudens play calling? I really loved his play calls in the first couple games, but as of now he has called some pretty horrible games. I really hope he finds a way to right the ship, otherwise I think Hue Jackson would be a better option.

[HoosierCat]

Your a fan of Grudens play calling? I really loved his play calls in the first couple games, but as of now he has called some pretty horrible games. I really hope he finds a way to right the ship, otherwise I think Hue Jackson would be a better option.

Gruden's star has dimmed substantially and I think the playcalling has been bland for several games now. That said, I counted four drops -- one each by Gresh, Green, Whalen and BJGE -- against Pitt. And there were at least two throws Andy just missed, one to Green near the end of the game that would have been a first I believe, and another to Gresh in stride down the middle that would have been a big gain. Those were perfectly good calls, the players just didn't execute.

[volcom69]

Your a fan of Grudens play calling? I really loved his play calls in the first couple games, but as of now he has called some pretty horrible games. I really hope he finds a way to right the ship, otherwise I think Hue Jackson would be a better option.

Gruden's star has dimmed substantially and I think the playcalling has been bland for several games now. That said, I counted four drops -- one each by Gresh, Green, Whalen and BJGE -- against Pitt. And there were at least two throws Andy just missed, one to Green near the end of the game that would have been a first I believe, and another to Gresh in stride down the middle that would have been a big gain. Those were perfectly good calls, the players just didn't execute.

Oh i agree, players themselves are not helping with the playcalling. At the sametime the plays Gruden is calling are not helping the players. Last year he did an awesome job taking a young guys and giving them a playbook that fit the team. Last year Andy had i think 9 games without an INT, and he seemed to get out of the pocket more, and was using Gresham alot better then they are now. Im just wondering if they expanded the playbook alot, that maybe its too much for these young guys? I mean i see Andy just standing back there, looking for guys to get open, why not design plays that are getting him out of the pocket more. I guess im just feeling like last years playbook seemed to work better for Andy and this team, but who knows. Guess it could be all the new players as well, all i know is im hoping something changes after the bye.

[combatbengal]

Your a fan of Grudens play calling? I really loved his play calls in the first couple games, but as of now he has called some pretty horrible games. I really hope he finds a way to right the ship, otherwise I think Hue Jackson would be a better option.

Gruden's star has dimmed substantially and I think the playcalling has been bland for several games now. That said, I counted four drops -- one each by Gresh, Green, Whalen and BJGE -- against Pitt. And there were at least two throws Andy just missed, one to Green near the end of the game that would have been a first I believe, and another to Gresh in stride down the middle that would have been a big gain. Those were perfectly good calls, the players just didn't execute.

Dude, you don't keep running the ball up the middle when you're down a TD with less than six minutes in the game and 90 yards to go to get a TD!! First run play got two yards. Second run play went in the same hole and got neg two yards.

[HoosierCat]

Dude, you don't keep running the ball up the middle when you're down a TD with less than six minutes in the game and 90 yards to go to get a TD!!

I present the above as an example of the fickle nature of Bengals fans. Is not one of the routine gripes that, as soon as the Bengals get down as much as a single score, it's "WOOP! WOOP! WOOP! All hand abandon run! Repeat, all hands abandon run! GUNNER: BOMBS AWAY!"?

Yet, when they are down but a single score with plenty of time, and six minutes is plenty of time, sticking with the run is evidence that the OC sucks.

The issue here isn't the call. The issue is that they can't run the f**king ball.

[skyline]

Dude, you don't keep running the ball up the middle when you're down a TD with less than six minutes in the game and 90 yards to go to get a TD!!

I present the above as an example of the fickle nature of Bengals sports fans. Is not one of the routine gripes that, as soon as the Bengals get down as much as a single score, it's "WOOP! WOOP! WOOP! All hand abandon run! Repeat, all hands abandon run! GUNNER: BOMBS AWAY!"?

Yet, when they are down but a single score with plenty of time, and six minutes is plenty of time, sticking with the run is evidence that the OC sucks.

The issue here isn't the call. The issue is that they can't run the f**king ball.

Agree completely with one small edit.

[cincy9275]

Your a fan of Grudens play calling? I really loved his play calls in the first couple games, but as of now he has called some pretty horrible games. I really hope he finds a way to right the ship, otherwise I think Hue Jackson would be a better option.

Gruden's star has dimmed substantially and I think the playcalling has been bland for several games now. That said, I counted four drops -- one each by Gresh, Green, Whalen and BJGE -- against Pitt. And there were at least two throws Andy just missed, one to Green near the end of the game that would have been a first I believe, and another to Gresh in stride down the middle that would have been a big gain. Those were perfectly good calls, the players just didn't execute.

your right execution is a large part of it. i believe gruden off the top of his head. named 10 or so plays out of 50 plus we failed to execute. then the 3rd down issue, the running game. teams have adjusted to what we are doing. now we have to adjust to them, plus get guys healthy. allow cedric to carry the ball more. let the young players play. slide tez to middle and let vincent rey play weak. rey malauga is just not very good gets beat never in position, blown of the ball, killed in the passing game. really we just need to play better. which we have shown we can. i know easier said than done.

[Sea Ray]

I'm not a Pete Carroll fan but I have to post this from his game last week regarding his poor decision to challenge a call. God knows Marvin has made his share of poor challenges but what would you give to hear him this contrite afterward?

If he had it to do over, Carroll would not have challenged the play in the third quarter against the Lions where he couldn’t win no matter what the ultimate call was.

“A total blunder,” Carroll said. “It was a blunder. I screwed it up.”

Carroll challenged whether Titus Young actually had caught a 9-yard pass from Matthew Stafford on a third-and-8 play. But it didn’t matter, because cornerback Brandon Browner had been called for defensive holding. So the Lions would get a first down even if the ruling on the field was reversed – which it wasn’t.

“It was a competitive moment that I really regret,” Carroll said.

When do you think we'll ever hear such comments from Marvin in a post game presser?

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not a Pete Carroll fan but I have to post this from his game last week regarding his poor decision to challenge a call. God knows Marvin has made his share of poor challenges but what would you give to hear him this contrite afterward?

If he had it to do over, Carroll would not have challenged the play in the third quarter against the Lions where he couldn’t win no matter what the ultimate call was.

“A total blunder,” Carroll said. “It was a blunder. I screwed it up.”

Carroll challenged whether Titus Young actually had caught a 9-yard pass from Matthew Stafford on a third-and-8 play. But it didn’t matter, because cornerback Brandon Browner had been called for defensive holding. So the Lions would get a first down even if the ruling on the field was reversed – which it wasn’t.

“It was a competitive moment that I really regret,” Carroll said.

When do you think we'll ever hear such comments from Marvin in a post game presser?

Alex, what is when hell freezes over ??

[Sea Ray]

Alex, what is when hell freezes over ??

Yeah, I think Mike Brown will hire a GM before that happens

[membengal]

Hoosier, i'm to a point where I no longer care.

At least the next guy will come in with a new perspective.

To accept what we've gotten from a guy who claims he finally has a team of his guys isn't happening any longer.

At least not from myself.

Oh, believe me, I understand. I think I hit the "don't care" wall about two years ago. It's the main reason my Bengals blogging has fallen off so severely; I just can't muster the effort any longer. There's golf to be played, leaves to be raked, etc. All I'm saying is that I doubt you will get even so much as a "new perspective," given the limitations on what kind of head coach the FO will consider.

Indeed. There's only so many times you can watch the same story unfold. Bengals have bad season, then rebound with good effort season, then have disappointing season, then bad season, then have a decent season, then a diasppointing season, and on and on and on....

I realized something last night flipping back and forth from the game to other shows....I was kind of bored with them.

It was like I wasn't watching the game live, it was like I was watching a Steelers-Bengals game on DVR from the last 10 years. I already knew the outcome.

This quote is so full of win.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Depressing.

In the short term, yes. The rest of this year is likely to be a downer. But I actually feel pretty good about the team going forward. Get the O a stud RB and a legit No. 2 WR and I think they perk way up. Address safety and LB on defense. Extend Moobs and Atkins. Get Cook back, Dre on the field, keep developing Vontaze. Bottom line, I think this year is a bump, not a collapse.

We've been watching "bumps in the road" for 22 years now.