Excellent Article on Vontaze Burfict

[cincyhokie]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7821147/nfl-asu-linebacker-vontaze-burfict-draft-most-misunderstood-player-espn-magazine

Click on the link for full article

VONTAZE BURFICT SITS in a hotel lobby, unable to make eye contact with the man across from him. His hands sweat. His stomach twists so much it hurts. It's the middle of the combine in Indy, and when the annual scouting showcase began, Burfict was considered by many NFL execs to be the top linebacker prospect. "I'd watched the combine on TV," Burfict says. "It felt so important."

Scouts fell in love with him during his Arizona State career because he laid people out, because he played close to the line and occasionally stepped over it. Shielded by his Sun Devils helmet, he acted as though he had no fear of reprisal -- from opponents, from coaches, from refs, from fans. They don't know how nervous he was once the game ended. These coaches don't know, as they sit down to meet him, that Burfict had been shielded from reporters by Arizona State's PR team for three seasons. They don't know that before the combine, Burfict had done only a handful of interviews in his life. So his hands are sweating. And his stomach twists. And his eyes look down as he tells Bill Belichick, Yes, I can see myself playing in New England. Yes, I hope to have a great combine. Burfict didn't expect to run into the coach and have an impromptu interview in the lobby. And with Belichick straining to hear him above the din, he didn't expect to offer an answer most other hopefuls don't have to: No, I am not the dirty player people think I am.

The next day, Burfict moves on to another coach, and then another after that. He notices a pattern. No one wants to talk football. Instead, they all ask if he has anger problems, if he can adjust his temperament to the NFL. One coach wonders how Burfict would react if a sweeping offensive tackle were to hit him with a cheap shot: Would he pursue the ball or punch the lineman? God, they think I'm a monster, Burfict realizes.

[cincyhokie]

It goes without saying that he guy's got some anger and emotional issues to work out. However, I'm a fan of this guy. It'd be awesome to see him fully turn things around.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Christ, who paid her to write the fluff piece? Really, this is the best we have: the kid's shy so he has problems with rage and self control?

I tend to pull for players like Mark Herzlich, who go undrafted due to reasons beyond their control. Not sure-fire first rounders who throw their future away because they're a**holes.

[cincyhokie]

You and I will never truly know if Burfict is an a**h***. He very well may be. I do think the media can help create the story it wants to create. And if I may pull my therapist card once again; I've worked with plenty of guys that have anger problems and aren't a**h***s. Can they learn to control their behavior? Absolutely. Should they take responsibility for their actions? Of course.

But I'm pretty certain when people grow up in certain environments, the kind where their friends are being killed on the way home from school, that it has an effect on them. A lasting effect. Dude has some serious growing up to do. If he wants to do that here and become a good player, more power to him.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

You and I will never truly know if Burfict is an a**h***. He very well may be. I do think the media can help create the story it wants to create. And if I may pull my therapist card once again; I've worked with plenty of guys that have anger problems and aren't a**h***s. Can they learn to control their behavior? Absolutely. Should they take responsibility for their actions? Of course.

But I'm pretty certain when people grow up in certain environments, the kind where their friends are being killed on the way home from school, that it has an effect on them. A lasting effect. Dude has some serious growing up to do. If he wants to do that here and become a good player, more power to him.

I get it; you're a therapist so you pull for people with severe behavioral problems. That's great. But I'm guessing you don't choose to extend that to your personal life, do you? Do you hire contractors who throw their tools through windows? I doubt it. While it's great to wish them success in the abstract, exposing yourself to the risk they bring (as the Bengals have) is a very bad idea.

That's why, while I certainly urge all people with crippling anger problems to get them fixed, I don't want to see this guy on the Bengals. First, unless they can write it into his contract (and I doubt the CBA allows), they can't mandate the kind of care he seems to need. Second, as you should undoubtedly know, this isn't a problem that's going to get fixed with a prescription and a snap of the fingers.

For both reasons, the odds of him being a liability far outweigh the benefits. In fact, if you look at the Bengals' track record with these idiots, none of them stay off the police blotter after they profess to being changed. There's a reason why no other team would touch this guy - and there's a reason why it was pretty much guaranteed the Bengals would take him.

And at the end of the day, there's not enough benefit to outweigh the risk. He's just not that good of a *player*. Sure, he's good at the Sportscenter hits, but what about coverage? What about making the right reads? What about speed - his combine was absolutely awful *on* the field as well.

[Sea Ray]

You and I will never truly know if Burfict is an a**h***. He very well may be. I do think the media can help create the story it wants to create. And if I may pull my therapist card once again; I've worked with plenty of guys that have anger problems and aren't a**h***s. Can they learn to control their behavior? Absolutely. Should they take responsibility for their actions? Of course.

But I'm pretty certain when people grow up in certain environments, the kind where their friends are being killed on the way home from school, that it has an effect on them. A lasting effect. Dude has some serious growing up to do. If he wants to do that here and become a good player, more power to him.

Who was more of an A hole and angry than Lawrence Taylor?

[derekshank]

In fact, if you look at the Bengals' track record with these idiots, none of them stay off the police blotter after they profess to being changed.

In Burfict's case, he doesn't have any off-the-field issues. All the concerns are on-the-field.

The Bengals actually have a decent history of getting relatively good production from troubled guys. It's what they do on their days off that gets them in trouble.

Burfict is the opposite. So if he can respond to coaching, there's nothing to worry about. If he doesn't respond to coaching, he won't stay on the team... so there's nothing to worry about.

[skyline]

You and I will never truly know if Burfict is an a**h***. He very well may be. I do think the media can help create the story it wants to create. And if I may pull my therapist card once again; I've worked with plenty of guys that have anger problems and aren't a**h***s. Can they learn to control their behavior? Absolutely. Should they take responsibility for their actions? Of course.

But I'm pretty certain when people grow up in certain environments, the kind where their friends are being killed on the way home from school, that it has an effect on them. A lasting effect. Dude has some serious growing up to do. If he wants to do that here and become a good player, more power to him.

There's a reason why no other team would touch this guy - and there's a reason why it was pretty much guaranteed the Bengals would take him.

Seriously? You don't think any other teams went after him as an UDFA?

You've lost your mind...

[cincyhokie]

I get it; you're a therapist so you pull for people with severe behavioral problems. That's great. But I'm guessing you don't choose to extend that to your personal life, do you? Do you hire contractors who throw their tools through windows? I doubt it. While it's great to wish them success in the abstract, exposing yourself to the risk they bring (as the Bengals have) is a very bad idea.

It's not really a personal or professional stance for me, it's just a belief that I have. That's beside the point. People can and do change. As far as taking a risk on Burfict changing enough to be a contributing, non-disruptive player...I don't know. That's why they can cut him with no losses. It's a win-win. There's no loss because I don't believe Lewis is going to keep him around long if he messes with what's being built.

As far as what we know this guy's done has been blown way out of porportion. He tested positive for marijuana. Bad idea. Then again so did Joseph. He turned out ok. As far as being devisive and uncontrollable, I don't think it's too far fetched to think that our information has been skewed quite a bit from the media spin. Most likely it's not as good as we want it to be and it's not near as bad either. That's typically how things are.

I'm sure we'll find out more about this guy in the next few months.

[cincyhokie]

You and I will never truly know if Burfict is an a**h***. He very well may be. I do think the media can help create the story it wants to create. And if I may pull my therapist card once again; I've worked with plenty of guys that have anger problems and aren't a**h***s. Can they learn to control their behavior? Absolutely. Should they take responsibility for their actions? Of course.

But I'm pretty certain when people grow up in certain environments, the kind where their friends are being killed on the way home from school, that it has an effect on them. A lasting effect. Dude has some serious growing up to do. If he wants to do that here and become a good player, more power to him.

Who was more of an A hole and angry than Lawrence Taylor?

Lawrence Taylor was a mean sunofabitch. Who wouldn't want him on your team?

I remember watching him panic and scream for Theisman to get assistance after he crushed his knee. Dude's human...still.

[cincyhokie]

You and I will never truly know if Burfict is an a**h***. He very well may be. I do think the media can help create the story it wants to create. And if I may pull my therapist card once again; I've worked with plenty of guys that have anger problems and aren't a**h***s. Can they learn to control their behavior? Absolutely. Should they take responsibility for their actions? Of course.

But I'm pretty certain when people grow up in certain environments, the kind where their friends are being killed on the way home from school, that it has an effect on them. A lasting effect. Dude has some serious growing up to do. If he wants to do that here and become a good player, more power to him.

Who was more of an A hole and angry than Lawrence Taylor?

Lawrence Taylor was a mean sunofabitch. Who wouldn't want him on your team?

I remember watching him panic and scream for Theisman to get assistance after he crushed his knee. Dude's human...still.

[jjakq27]

I posted this in the grade the draft thread but thiught it was worth repeating. Tonite on Sportstalk Dave Lapham said Marvin's daughter goes to ASU and Marvin scheduled a visit around their Pro Day and spent time with Burfict. He also said VB kept texting ML in the later rounds asking us to draft him. Obviously they made a good connection. Hope it lasts.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

That's why they can cut him with no losses. It's a win-win. There's no loss because I don't believe Lewis is going to keep him around long if he messes with what's being built.

You lose when he shows initial success and you come to depend on him, only to be screwed when his behavior problems come into play when it really matters. This isn't a problem that you can establish with a stopwatch; it is shown in the body of work. And when you look at his, it's bad.

As far as what we know this guy's done has been blown way out of porportion. He tested positive for marijuana. Bad idea. Then again so did Joseph.

This is more than pot; lots of guys test positive for pot. Of course, smoking pot right before the combine does contribute to the self-control problem.

[Chad Johnson]

Great pick Up! there isw no risk... becoming dependant??? if anything that would mean we just got enhanced play for the period of time he played. Two ways to look at everything. And as far as your little extending it to your personal life remarks, do you examine the history of everyone you interact with No it's impossible. You have no idea if the guy fixing your roof, laying your carpet, serving your food, etc etc has any type of problems in their personal life. I am actually glad that Mike Brown has set his team up to be the second chance team, it's one of the very few praises Ill ever give the guy too.

[Kazkal]

I posted this in the grade the draft thread but thiught it was worth repeating. Tonite on Sportstalk Dave Lapham said Marvin's daughter goes to ASU and Marvin scheduled a visit around their Pro Day and spent time with Burfict. He also said VB kept texting ML in the later rounds asking us to draft him. Obviously they made a good connection. Hope it lasts.

Wait a second Marvin has kids?

[ArmyBengal]

You lose when he shows initial success and you come to depend on him, only to be screwed when his behavior problems come into play when it really matters.

And might I suggest baby steps.

This kid hasn't even put on a helmet and you are already pissed off about the fact his poor decisions cost the Bengals a Super Bowl victory due to his stupidity. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the concerns, but lets also not compare him to Thurman or Henry, who were early round picks and did actually cost this team.

History would certainly suggest the Bengals have kept headcases around longer than they should, but i'm just not so sure that is going to be the situation with this team. I'm just not a big fan of using history as a measuring stick all the time. I wanted both JJoe and Hall in the draft. We were told JJoe wouldn't happen because they hadn't draft a CB early in forever. Same with Hall, especially seeing as how they already had JJoe. Then I wanted an OG this year, only to hear everyone claim it wouldn't happen because the Bengals had never drafted an OG in the first round. Say hello to Zeitler.

I just don't see them keeping him around if he f*cks up. I'm sure however, someone will say that they will because they always have. I just think that is being lazy when looking at the big picture.

[jjakq27]

I posted this in the grade the draft thread but thiught it was worth repeating. Tonite on Sportstalk Dave Lapham said Marvin's daughter goes to ASU and Marvin scheduled a visit around their Pro Day and spent time with Burfict. He also said VB kept texting ML in the later rounds asking us to draft him. Obviously they made a good connection. Hope it lasts.

Wait a second Marvin has kids?

Yep 53 of them plus his own...

[Kazkal]

I posted this in the grade the draft thread but thiught it was worth repeating. Tonite on Sportstalk Dave Lapham said Marvin's daughter goes to ASU and Marvin scheduled a visit around their Pro Day and spent time with Burfict. He also said VB kept texting ML in the later rounds asking us to draft him. Obviously they made a good connection. Hope it lasts.

Wait a second Marvin has kids?

Yep 53 of them plus his own...

Weird don't think I've ever noticed a Article talk about him having kids just figured he didn't have any...

Like I remember reading about Brat's & zimmers but never Marvins...

[COB]

I posted this in the grade the draft thread but thiught it was worth repeating. Tonite on Sportstalk Dave Lapham said Marvin's daughter goes to ASU and Marvin scheduled a visit around their Pro Day and spent time with Burfict. He also said VB kept texting ML in the later rounds asking us to draft him. Obviously they made a good connection. Hope it lasts.

Wait a second Marvin has kids?

Yep 53 of them plus his own...

Weird don't think I've ever noticed a Article talk about him having kids just figured he didn't have any...

Like I remember reading about Brat's & zimmers but never Marvins...

I seem to recall Marvin having an older son who played college football or baseball. I can't remember for sure, but it seemed like he went out west somewhere. I think he was a linebacker.

[cincyhokie]

I posted this in the grade the draft thread but thiught it was worth repeating. Tonite on Sportstalk Dave Lapham said Marvin's daughter goes to ASU and Marvin scheduled a visit around their Pro Day and spent time with Burfict. He also said VB kept texting ML in the later rounds asking us to draft him. Obviously they made a good connection. Hope it lasts.

Wait a second Marvin has kids?

Yep 53 of them plus his own...

Weird don't think I've ever noticed a Article talk about him having kids just figured he didn't have any...

Like I remember reading about Brat's & zimmers but never Marvins...

I seem to recall Marvin having an older son who played college football or baseball. I can't remember for sure, but it seemed like he went out west somewhere. I think he was a linebacker.

He was(is) a linebacker at Indiana State. That was 2010. Not sure if he's graduated yet.

[derekshank]

Mike Zimmer did a radio interview on a local Columbus show here.

They asked him about Burfict, and I thought Zimmer's comments were, well... awesome (you can always count on Zimmer to say it like it is).

Radio Host: Vontaze Burfict who has, what a lot of people say is 1st round talent, but has had a lot of off-the-field and on-the field problems. Tell us about what you've seen from him.

Zimmer: I haven't really watched any of the way down line guys, so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment about him. I'll have an open mind with him when he comes in here, but I'm not going to allow him to do the things here that he did when he was at Arizona State.

Radio Host: You had PacMan Jones who had some problems, and it seems like he has straightened his life out a little bit. As a coach in general, do you handle these kinds of players differently than you do with a guy who has a clear background?

Zimmer: Yeah, definitely. In the case with Adam Jones, I had known him. I brought him in, talked to him, visited with him. I told him what my expectation was for him. I told him how he would have to act, how he had to be. I did the same thing with Tank Johnson who had some past reputation issues. I think the best way to handle it is by being up front with the guy. Talking to him and letting him know your expectation level. Let him know what you will accept, what you won't accept. And from that point on, it's really up to them. It's not one of those guys that we're counting on to do this or to do that. If he does it great, but if he doesn't, you move him down the road, and he goes and gets a job like everyone else in the world.

Nice.

[ArmyBengal]

It's not one of those guys that we're counting on to do this or to do that. If he does it great, but if he doesn't, you move him down the road, and he goes and gets a job like everyone else in the world.

Hardly handing the keys to the guy expecting him to lead us to the Super Bowl huh ??

Sounds like the reasons I gave for wanting to burn one of our three 5th rounders on him.

The fact we got him as an UDFA ?? Double bonus for us !!!

[HoosierCat]

The fact we got him as an UDFA ?? Double bonus for us !!!

A thought on that note. Once upon a time, yes. Now? Not so much. There used to be a big difference between being drafted and being some scrub off the street. Then the new CBA came along. For example, the league minimum is around $350k this year, so if Vontaze manages to make the team that's about what he'll be making.

And that's about half of what our starting QB is pulling in.

Yes, that's a bit slanted, Andy does have guaranteed coin in his deal but I think you get the point. Beyond the top of the first round, draft picks are basically "first dibs" now. And no, that doesn't mean that scouting or the draft aren't important or valuable, but the dynamics have changed. You see it in all the trades and especially in all the QBs being taken way higher than they ever would have been before.

Under the old CBA do the Fins take Tannehill and hand him $50 million. No f**king way.

It will be interesting to see how Burfict works out (or doesn't) but I'm not sure his UDFA status will have much to do with it.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Under the old CBA do the Fins take Tannehill and hand him $50 million. No f**king way.

I could be persuaded to toss a couple million Tannehills wifes way...

[ArmyBengal]

The fact we got him as an UDFA ?? Double bonus for us !!!

It will be interesting to see how Burfict works out (or doesn't) but I'm not sure his UDFA status will have much to do with it.

I'm simply saying that I think it was a good thing we got him as an UDFA.

That having to do with how things work out is another story.

In short, if he plays well and earns a spot, I don't care if he was a early round pick or some scrub off the street.

I will be happy.