Dalton issues

[walzav29]

I love the guy. I think he needs to spread the ball around more though. It's probably tough for him to trust Simpson and Caldwell because they drop everything. I wonder if he's hitting a wall.

[derekshank]

I love the guy. I think he needs to spread the ball around more though. It's probably tough for him to trust Simpson and Caldwell because they drop everything. I wonder if he's hitting a wall.

You might be right... but his supporting cast isn't exactly doing much supporting. Green is by far their best player... so I'm not sure spreading the ball around more is the answer to a question anyone is asking.

Dalton targeted Green 9 times and came up with 6 completions (67%) for 115 yards (a passer rating of 109.7).

All other players were targeted 17 times with 9 completions (53%) for 64 yards and an interception (a passer rating of 37.3). I know the interception wasn't Hawkins' fault... but even taking that one play away, the production difference is staggering. Dalton had 12.7 yards/attempt when throwing to Green, and 4 yards/attempt when throwing to anyone not named Green.

Gresham and Simpson were targeted a combined 10 times, with only 5 catches for 30 yards. In other words... Dalton continues to throw them the ball, but they do nothing with it.

[Sea Ray]

I think Gresham needs to step up

[derekshank]

I think Gresham needs to step up

Everyone does.

He did more harm than good yesterday. Multiple penalties... and was a non-factor in the one thing he does well.

[HoosierCat]

I didn't see anything yesterday that we haven't seen all year. Is the passing offense over-reliant on Green? Yep. Are Gresham, Simpson and Caldwell here one game and gone the next? Yep. Offensive line unable to consistently run-block or pass-protect? Yep. Rhythmless playcalling? Yep.

I suspect things will improve next season, after they've had an offseason to work out the kinks, but for now I don't expect any of this to change.

[Arkansas Bengal]

I didn't see anything yesterday that we haven't seen all year. Is the passing offense over-reliant on Green? Yep. Are Gresham, Simpson and Caldwell here one game and gone the next? Yep. Offensive line unable to consistently run-block or pass-protect? Yep. Rhythmless playcalling? Yep.

I suspect things will improve next season, after they've had an offseason to work out the kinks, but for now I don't expect any of this to change.

The one thing I saw yesterday that was new was Gresham getting THREE friggin false start penalties!!! How hard is it to remember the snap count?

[HoosierCat]

The one thing I saw yesterday that was new was Gresham getting THREE friggin false start penalties!!! How hard is it to remember the snap count?

Yup, Gresham struggled yesterday, no doubt. But to be fair that was true of the entire o-line.

[skyline]

Yep, the offense is just out of sync right now. Think Gruden is still getting HC consideration?

I'm happy with his performance, overall, but I'm also not blown away.

[volcom69]

I remember though in the begining of the season he was spreading the ball around to 9 guys, but as of late he has a tough time finding anyone but Green. How about Whalen i would love to see him get more looks, as well as Hawkins. These WR need to learn how to seperate more, its time more people step up.

Gresham has the big time ability, but now its time to prove it. I watch all these other TE having huge games and years, i just wonder if the bengals are not using Gresham right, or if he just has a tough time getting open.

How about Lee i remember when he was catching huge passes, i would love for them to use more guys besides Green out there. How about screen passes to Scott, where the heck is he at?? In a WCO i would suspect there to be more screens, and with Scotts speed i think thats who needs to get them. How about using Benson and Scott at the same time in the back field??? I think there are alot of options for this team, but i wonder why they dont use anything new.

[skyline]

I think there are alot of options for this team, but i wonder why they dont use anything new.

That's frustrated me as well. I would assume it's due to a rookie QB, starting WR, offensive coordinator, and a shortened preseason.

I would assume that the lack of a full training camp wouldn't be such a big deal at this point, but perhaps they just want to keep it as simple for the rookie as possible,

[HoosierCat]

Well, the counter-argument to the "they're using Green too much" argument is, why the heck would you NOT want to use Green as much as possible? Green is a "chunks"/scoring threat every single snap. Do the Vikings use Adrian Peterson too much? When you have a weapon like that, you get the ball in their hands as much as you can.

[volcom69]

Well, the counter-argument to the "they're using Green too much" argument is, why the heck would you NOT want to use Green as much as possible? Green is a "chunks"/scoring threat every single snap. Do the Vikings use Adrian Peterson too much? When you have a weapon like that, you get the ball in their hands as much as you can.

Oh i agree use Green as much as you want, but remember there are other options out there. How about more screen passes to Scott, or how about Gresham or Lee down the center of the field. I really think in the begining of the year it looked to me like there were more options, Dalton i think in one game hit 9 different receivers. I dont mind them going to Green alot, i just dont want Dalton to get to greedy with him where he starts to just throw it up and throws pics. I guess for me i would just like to see more options, more of a WCO, more TE use, and alot more screens. A TE is a QBs best friend, so why are they not using Gresham or Lee more, or is it that they are not getting open??

[HoosierCat]

Well, the counter-argument to the "they're using Green too much" argument is, why the heck would you NOT want to use Green as much as possible? Green is a "chunks"/scoring threat every single snap. Do the Vikings use Adrian Peterson too much? When you have a weapon like that, you get the ball in their hands as much as you can.

Oh i agree use Green as much as you want, but remember there are other options out there. How about more screen passes to Scott, or how about Gresham or Lee down the center of the field. I really think in the begining of the year it looked to me like there were more options, Dalton i think in one game hit 9 different receivers. I dont mind them going to Green alot, i just dont want Dalton to get to greedy with him where he starts to just throw it up and throws pics. I guess for me i would just like to see more options, more of a WCO, more TE use, and alot more screens. A TE is a QBs best friend, so why are they not using Gresham or Lee more, or is it that they are not getting open??

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the "beginning of the year" comment. They didn't know how good Green really was. Now, they know they have a guy who has Hall of Fame potential. TEs are a great buddy to a QB, but a guy like Green who can blow downfield and has satellite dishes for hands is even better.

Give em an offseason and I think you'll see more variety. But right now the bengals are a football example of the old adage about, if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Fortunately, they have one heck of a hammer.

[volcom69]

Well, the counter-argument to the "they're using Green too much" argument is, why the heck would you NOT want to use Green as much as possible? Green is a "chunks"/scoring threat every single snap. Do the Vikings use Adrian Peterson too much? When you have a weapon like that, you get the ball in their hands as much as you can.

Oh i agree use Green as much as you want, but remember there are other options out there. How about more screen passes to Scott, or how about Gresham or Lee down the center of the field. I really think in the begining of the year it looked to me like there were more options, Dalton i think in one game hit 9 different receivers. I dont mind them going to Green alot, i just dont want Dalton to get to greedy with him where he starts to just throw it up and throws pics. I guess for me i would just like to see more options, more of a WCO, more TE use, and alot more screens. A TE is a QBs best friend, so why are they not using Gresham or Lee more, or is it that they are not getting open??

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the "beginning of the year" comment. They didn't know how good Green really was. Now, they know they have a guy who has Hall of Fame potential. TEs are a great buddy to a QB, but a guy like Green who can blow downfield and has satellite dishes for hands is even better.

Give em an offseason and I think you'll see more variety. But right now the bengals are a football example of the old adage about, if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Fortunately, they have one heck of a hammer.

Yea i agree i think another great draft, with an actual offseason will be great for this team!

[Sea Ray]

In a WCO i would suspect there to be more screens, and with Scotts speed i think thats who needs to get them. How about using Benson and Scott at the same time in the back field??? I think there are alot of options for this team, but i wonder why they dont use anything new.

As we saw last week, any QB/RB can catch dump offs all day long. Why don't we? I've never seen a WCO with less passes to the RBs. It doesn't seem to me that these sorts of plays would need much innovation. Just do it to slow down the pass rush and bring in the LBs. We'd probably also get a few cheap 1st downs

[HoosierCat]

As we saw last week, any QB/RB can catch dump offs all day long. Why don't we? I've never seen a WCO with less passes to the RBs.

Two words: Brian Leonard. He's the RB they throw to (20 receptions this season vs. 12 each for Benson and Scott) but he's been hurt.

Re the number of passes being throw to the RBs, they're on pace for 50 grabs combined this year. In comparison, the combination of Woods, Brooks and Wilson had 59 receptions in 1988 during the height of the team's WCO days.

[Sea Ray]

As we saw last week, any QB/RB can catch dump offs all day long. Why don't we? I've never seen a WCO with less passes to the RBs.

Two words: Brian Leonard. He's the RB they throw to (20 receptions this season vs. 12 each for Benson and Scott) but he's been hurt.

Re the number of passes being throw to the RBs, they're on pace for 50 grabs combined this year. In comparison, the combination of Woods, Brooks and Wilson had 59 receptions in 1988 during the height of the team's WCO days.

Thanks for looking up those numbers!

First of all I'd argue that the Boomer, no huddle offense at it's peak was quick strike and not West Coast. Secondly 50 passes or three a game is not enough for a young team. They need those "gimmees". I think it should be twice that many and a true speedy pass catching 3rd down RB should be on the off season shopping list

[kingwilly]

I remember though in the begining of the season he was spreading the ball around to 9 guys, but as of late he has a tough time finding anyone but Green. How about Whalen i would love to see him get more looks, as well as Hawkins. These WR need to learn how to seperate more, its time more people step up.

Gresham has the big time ability, but now its time to prove it. I watch all these other TE having huge games and years, i just wonder if the bengals are not using Gresham right, or if he just has a tough time getting open.

How about Lee i remember when he was catching huge passes, i would love for them to use more guys besides Green out there. How about screen passes to Scott, where the heck is he at?? In a WCO i would suspect there to be more screens, and with Scotts speed i think thats who needs to get them. How about using Benson and Scott at the same time in the back field??? I think there are alot of options for this team, but i wonder why they dont use anything new.

I like the idea of a Jet package. Maybe even a Peerman/Benson rotation... Power running.

I am perplexed by Gresham. If he is not getting open, at least put Lee in.

I also noticed Dalton locking in on his target quite a bit yesterday. His reads were not very progressive. He should be seeing the whole field, not just locking in on Green, or whoever is the primary.

When it comes to under-utilizing Scott, this also makes me nuts even though he scored. The guy has legit skills. He could at least be running back punts, in place of Tate. Get the guy touches however they can.

If the recent games have shown anything, it is that they need to go get a #2 WR who is consistent. Artrell Hawkins mentioned this quite a bit last week, the need for a very consistent #2. I wouldn't mind a FA who has some decent speed. There is a need to stretch the field with more than Green. Green does need some measure of protection from him ending up with no gas in his tank after 6-7 years. Thre will be many FA WR's this offseason, so let's go find a guy who can balance Green a bit and give Dalton another legit target. Even an underulitized guy like Earl Bennett. When the Broncos let Brandon Lloyd go I really wanted him. He is the kind of guy to get.

Where

[HoosierCat]

I also noticed Dalton locking in on his target quite a bit yesterday. His reads were not very progressive. He should be seeing the whole field, not just locking in on Green, or whoever is the primary.

It would help if the Bengals had an o-line that gave him time to go through his progressions and find the open receiver. Sunday he had guys in his grill all days and several deflected passes.

[BengalPimp]

Gresham has the big time ability, but now its time to prove it. I watch all these other TE having huge games and years, i just wonder if the bengals are not using Gresham right, or if he just has a tough time getting open.

Here i go again, broken record. They DON'T use Gresham right, and I fear they won't until they get a half-decent O-Line. The difference with all those other TE's is their team may line them up next to tackle sometimes, but they also spread them out... a lot, they also release them right away. The Bengals hardly do that with Gresham, they expect him to help block, because their O-Line is sh*t/injured, so he has to block, and maybe then release, which is why he gets the ball only 6 yards downfield. The few times (and I do mean few times) the Bengals have spread him out, you see the production.......

All of those other TE's are lined up and positioned all over the field. Watch a Patriots game and you'll hardly ever see Aaron Hernandez lined up next to Tackle, he's always spread out. Gronkowski does lineup next to tackle more, but he is also spread out, and they also use him quite a bit in the backfield as an H-Back.......Jimmy Graham is spread out as well. A lot of coaches are taking these TE's who were so good in the college game lining up wide in those spread offenses, and using that in the NFL. Exploiting the mismatches.

The Bengals don't do much of that, and it's a shame.....maybe in year 2 of Gruden's system? But the bottomline is they need to shore up the O-Line first.

[volcom69]

Gresham has the big time ability, but now its time to prove it. I watch all these other TE having huge games and years, i just wonder if the bengals are not using Gresham right, or if he just has a tough time getting open.

Here i go again, broken record. They DON'T use Gresham right, and I fear they won't until they get a half-decent O-Line. The difference with all those other TE's is their team may line them up next to tackle sometimes, but they also spread them out... a lot, they also release them right away. The Bengals hardly do that with Gresham, they expect him to help block, because their O-Line is sh*t/injured, so he has to block, and maybe then release, which is why he gets the ball only 6 yards downfield. The few times (and I do mean few times) the Bengals have spread him out, you see the production.......

All of those other TE's are lined up and positioned all over the field. Watch a Patriots game and you'll hardly ever see Aaron Hernandez lined up next to Tackle, he's always spread out. Gronkowski does lineup next to tackle more, but he is also spread out, and they also use him quite a bit in the backfield as an H-Back.......Jimmy Graham is spread out as well. A lot of coaches are taking these TE's who were so good in the college game lining up wide in those spread offenses, and using that in the NFL. Exploiting the mismatches.

The Bengals don't do much of that, and it's a shame.....maybe in year 2 of Gruden's system? But the bottomline is they need to shore up the O-Line first.

They have 3 tight ends, and one of them is supposed to be there blocker in Cochart. Lee is another great option i think, he has shown he can split the middle of the field and catch a pass. So if you ask me there is no reason not to use Gresham in a way that he gets more balls thrown his way, otherwise whats the point in playing 3 TEs. Im not sure i understand the reason behind this i just hope they figure out that he can be much better used, and they start that this week.

As far as Leonard catching out of the backfield, i do think he is awsome, but at the same time they have not thrown to Scott very much. Im a huge fan of the screen game, and with this WCO i think its time they use it even more, just like i think they should use Gresham even more.

Dalton starring down recievers is probably a result of the o-line playing pretty bad. I do hope he does scan the field more, and makes the right decision, just dont throw it into double coverage with Green all the time. I hope we can see Whalen, and Hawkins more these last two games, i really do think Whalen can help he has great hands.

[HoosierCat]

Andy Dalton throws the o-line under the bus.

For a quarterback, is checking down quickly the toughest adjustment to make, especially coming from college to the pros?

“I think so. When you get back there and you're holding the ball … I know in college I was fortunate to a have a really good offensive line, so I was able to sit back there for a long time. Where now – and I'm not saying anything against our offensive line – it's just that with the speed of the game, everything's quicker. So if you get greedy and want to hold it for half a second, things break down and you might not even get a chance to throw the ball.”

"In college I was fortunate to a have a really good offensive line."

Ouch.

[volcom69]

Maybe now the o-line will take that to heart, and start playing more physical! Its the truth though, and the o-line needs to step it up. I just keep thinking that Dalton can be that much better with a better o-line, and a better running game!

[Spor_tees]

Gresham has the big time ability, but now its time to prove it. I watch all these other TE having huge games and years, i just wonder if the bengals are not using Gresham right, or if he just has a tough time getting open.

Here i go again, broken record. They DON'T use Gresham right, and I fear they won't until they get a half-decent O-Line. The difference with all those other TE's is their team may line them up next to tackle sometimes, but they also spread them out... a lot, they also release them right away. The Bengals hardly do that with Gresham, they expect him to help block, because their O-Line is sh*t/injured, so he has to block, and maybe then release, which is why he gets the ball only 6 yards downfield. The few times (and I do mean few times) the Bengals have spread him out, you see the production.......

All of those other TE's are lined up and positioned all over the field. Watch a Patriots game and you'll hardly ever see Aaron Hernandez lined up next to Tackle, he's always spread out. Gronkowski does lineup next to tackle more, but he is also spread out, and they also use him quite a bit in the backfield as an H-Back.......Jimmy Graham is spread out as well. A lot of coaches are taking these TE's who were so good in the college game lining up wide in those spread offenses, and using that in the NFL. Exploiting the mismatches.

The Bengals don't do much of that, and it's a shame.....maybe in year 2 of Gruden's system? But the bottomline is they need to shore up the O-Line first.

Maybe we aren't watching the same games. In recent games the Bengals have a package designed specifically for Gresham. They line up trips left with Gresham lining up by himself to the right giving him one on one coverage with a LB or safety. Almost every time they use this formation Dalton throws the balls at Gresham with more success than not. In fact they ran the same formation 2 plays in a row a couple weeks ago where Gresham caught a 20 yard skinny post pattern followed by a 10 yard stop route.

So they are trying to utilize Gresham's abilities, but if you had to chose between throwing the ball 10+ times at Green or give Gresham more opportunities, you have to go with Green until the defense FORCES you to throw to Gresham or the other receivers.

[COB]

you have to go with Green until the defense FORCES you to throw to Gresham or the other receivers.

Against the Rams Dalton threw an endzone fade to Green into zone coverage. Two guys all over him, and Green still made the catch, though out of bounds. I'm not sure what the defense will have to do to force Dalton off Green, maybe just tackle him at the line of scrimmage.