Not piling on old Mike Brown

[membengal]

As I understand it Schefter claims Brown was interested in Mallet early on, but by the time the draft occured had shifted to Dalton due to input from his coaches. In short, the type of thing that happens again and again in every draft.

So why was it considered a rumor worth printing in the first place?

Perhaps so Schefter could better appeal to delightfully dips**tted Bengal fans who seemed adamant about denying Mike Brown the credit he deserves even after making a very popular choice. And by floating a stupid rumor about the Bengals wanting a player they actually showed no interest in Schefter has given every Bengal fan a great gift. That being, the opportunity to rave about a draft pick while still bitching about Mike Brown. And that's the kind of thing that goes over very big in the River City.

As for the trade rumors involving Palmer, as Searay points out....Schefter's latest claim, made just this weekend, flatly contradicts his own previous claims. Which I admit is par for the course when it comes to rumors, right? But it also points out how inconsistent Schefter has been when reporting Bengal related rumors, prompting SeaRay to wonder aloud if Bengal fans should trust Schefter.

You kill me how you will argue so hard to give Mike Brown credit when something good happens, when everything points towards someone else making the decision. How you can stare in the face of 19 years of poor decisions and call them meaningless after this one offseason. Credit needs to be given to where credit is due. Mike Brown simply giving in to his coaches demands is not worth giving credit for the entire decision. Who knows how many other decisions this offseason should be given to Marvin, Zimmer, or Gruden.

So if you want to continue to play the Kevin Bacon game to connect all the dots to end with giving Mike Brown credit for everything, then go right ahead.

It's really pretty simple. Let's say that your assumption is correct adnd that Brown gave more power to the coaching staff which is why we're having our current run of success. Then, at some point, Mike Brown had a decision to make:

1) Keep doing his own thing and ignore the opinions of coaches.

or

2) Give them more power and say so over personnel decisions.

If Mike Brown decides on option 1, then we still suck. If Mike Brown decides on option 2, then we have success.

Either way, it all boils down to the decision of one man. Mike Brown.

Secondly, I'm not sure that ANYONE has said the past 19 years of poor decisions are meaningless. They're simply saying that you have to give credit where credit is due. If you want to bash Brown for the past 19 years, then that is fine. But if you're going to blast him for everything that happened in the past, then you have to be consistent in your argument and give him credit for what's happening now. No, he may not have become a football genius overnight, but regardless of what Mike Brown is or isn't, the fact remains that all decisions run through him. Like it or not.

And once more Skyline owns the room.

By the way, all of these opinions before I posted a simple agreement with Derek's take. But so I can't be accused of cliquing, I am making sure I give a nod to EVERY opinion on this thread I agree with. And, since I am "coattails", I refer you again, sportees, to my own original thoughts on this from a few weeks back, pasted above.

[Spor_tees]

No you are not getting the point, its not just this thread it is something that has gone on for quite sometime. Whenever the three of you are confronted in a discussion one on one with someone, it's inevitable that the other two will come to your defense. So I ask you, how can you defend a poster, that is supposed to be held in the regards that you guys hold him, would flat out lie to try and win an argument? This whole thing could have been avoided despite my disagreement in who holds responsibility for the turn around, if He would have admitted he just came up with those facts on the fly to try and make his point.

Fact is, you or anyone else can't say that Mike Brown was the major decision maker on all of this years offseason moves, just the same as I can't say for a fact that Marvin was the one who did it. The only people that can say for sure are the ones in the war room or in the offices at Paul Brown stadium. That's why it is a subject of debate. My argument goes along with the facts of science. If something is a certain way for a long period of time, and all of a sudden it changes, then something happened. That's just the way it is.

[BengalszoneBilly]

You guys are boring the f**k outta me.

[membengal]

I defend EVERY poster on here who I quoted in this thread. I stand with all their opinions, and my own.

[HoosierCat]

I am curious how the new admin ban stick works.

Right now, I'm leaning toward banning all 3,541 members of the zone and blaming Mike Brown.

[HairOnFire]

No you are the liar, and I can prove it, you can't disprove it.

Sure I can.

You claimed I made information up and refused to give a source when you supposedly "called me on it". I promptly gave you the source, and you quickly confirmed the info was there.

That makes you a liar. Best, it clears me.

Granted, you say now that the info I provided was mistaken. And just for giggles let's assume it was. But even if that were true a mistake isn't the same thing as lying. And yet that's exactly what you're claiming now in your latest emotional fit of hiss.

[membengal]

I am curious how the new admin ban stick works.

Right now, I'm leaning toward banning all 3,541 members of the zone and blaming Mike Brown.

It DOES seem like something Mike Brown would do.

[membengal]

From page one, I disagree with COB, and Shula Steak. I don't stand with them on this. TJ or Pimp either.

I assume COB, Steak, sportees, TJ and Pimp, and probably Billy have formed an evil league of justice clique on this issue.

[Spor_tees]

No you are the liar, and I can prove it, you can't disprove it.

Sure I can.

You claimed I made information up and refused to give a source when you supposedly "called me on it". I promptly gave you the source, and you quickly confirmed the info was there.

That makes you a liar. Best, it clears me.

Granted, you say now that the info I provided was mistaken. And just for giggles let's assume it was. But even if that were true a mistake isn't the same thing as lying. And yet that's exactly what you're claiming now in your latest emotional fit of hiss.

From Cincy Jungle:

Bengals guard Bobbie Williams, who has started 109 of a possible 112 games since signing with Cincinnati in 2004, produced the league's best pass blocking efficiency amongst all offensive guards according to Pro Football Focus. Like Whitworth, Williams' production in run blocking took a slight dive, but he was still rated with the sixth best score amongst the right guards in the NFL.

Here is a quick link to the pass protection guide:

Here

We’re going to be grouping guards as one entity, and centers as another and the results (as you would imagine) are interesting (for lovers of offensive line play anyway). Starting with the guards, narrowly ending up top is the perennially underrated Bobbie Williams. While his run blocking may not have been as dominant as in previous years, he gave up just 11 QB disruptions all year, and only more than one in a game four times.

You said?

[HairOnFire]

I have never gotten anyone banned. In fact you are the only person I have complained to an Admin about.

So in your opinion you've only acted like a p***y that one time?

[Spor_tees]

I have never gotten anyone banned. In fact you are the only person I have complained to an Admin about.

So in your opinion you've only acted like a p***y that one time?

One of these days you'll admit your wrong, it might take a long time, heck it might even come in some hidden note years after you've been dead, but one day you will. It'll feel good, everyone should do it every now and then, it makes you feel human.

[HairOnFire]

I assume all of these posters are a part of some clique, sportees?

I hereby propose in the future we each agree to refer to BallBuster only by his previous user name of Sportees, which I believe is a much better fit to his personality due to the way it may remind the reader of a brand of ladies t-shirts and underwear.

[Stripes]

With its somewhat limited regular traffic (which I like), Bengalszone so often can hardly stand itself.

[HoosierCat]

My Q2 report card for Mike Brown.

Dear lord, Hoosier in the clique???!! Hoosier?

It. can. not. be.

Of course not. I refuse to join any group that would have me as a member. :grouchosmiley:

Just as Mikey deserves his share of the blame in the bad years, he deserves his share of the credit when things go well. Same for the players and the coaches. Has luck played a role? Sure, but luck plays a role every season for every team (and heaven knows the Bengals were way overdue for a break on that front). As to the question of whether this is a blip or the start of something good, we will see. But from where I sit we have plenty of time to argue about that after the season.

So no need to be churlish; magnanimity ought to be the order of the day. Let me be the first to declare that if I saw Mike Brown on fire, I would not hesitate one instant to p*ss on him.

[HairOnFire]

So I ask you, how can you defend a poster, that is supposed to be held in the regards that you guys hold him, would flat out lie to try and win an argument?

Despite your feelings you've been picked on the opposite is probably true. And I say that because when dealing with you in the past I've always pulled my punches. And I'm guessing others have as well, mostly because nobody wants to be the guy who picks on a mental cripple.

Furthermore, stop complaigning like a little dink about how you're always outnumbered around here when nearly every stance you take falls squarely within the majority, especially your tired and all-too familiar ravings about Mike Brown. Frankly, it doesn't take an once of guts for any Bengal fan to criticize Mike Brown, and I beleive most of you do so just to fit in with a bigger crowd.

In short, you're a dime a dozen kind of guy always repeating a rant we've all heard dozens of times before. Or if you prefer, you're actually the voice of the crowd, in the sense that you're an unthinking drone who can only repeat the things he's heard others say for years.

[Spor_tees]

So I ask you, how can you defend a poster, that is supposed to be held in the regards that you guys hold him, would flat out lie to try and win an argument?

Despite your feelings you've been picked on the opposite is probably true. And I say that because when dealing with you in the past I've always pulled my punches. And I'm guessing others have as well, mostly because nobody wants to be the guy who picks on a mental cripple.

Furthermore, stop complaigning like a little dink about how you're always outnumbered around here when nearly every stance you take falls squarely within the majority, especially your tired and all-too familiar ravings about Mike Brown. Frankly, it doesn't take an once of guts for any Bengal fan to criticize Mike Brown, and I beleive most of you do so just to fit in with a bigger crowd.

In short, you're a dime a dozen kind of guy always repeating a rant we've all heard dozens of times before. Or if you prefer, you're actually the voice of the crowd, in the sense that you're an unthinking drone who can only repeat the things he's heard others say for years.

Are you still ranting about this? Don't you have some facts and statistics to make up?

Despite all of the names you want to call me, all the presumptions you want to make, and everything in between, One thing anyone can take out of this fiasco, and know it is a fact, is that you are a liar. You fell guilty to one of the things you call out about yourself. You always want to know the facts, when you, yourself created your own facts.

So go ahead and call me what you want, try to defame me as much as you can, it will not take away that you damaged your credibility as a poster by making up facts to win a discussion. In fact the longer you continue to try and berate me, should do nothing but show more proof of your guilt. That's alright though I don't need to call you any names, except the one that fits, liar.

[Spor_tees]

So I ask you, how can you defend a poster, that is supposed to be held in the regards that you guys hold him, would flat out lie to try and win an argument?

Despite your feelings you've been picked on the opposite is probably true. And I say that because when dealing with you in the past I've always pulled my punches. And I'm guessing others have as well, mostly because nobody wants to be the guy who picks on a mental cripple.

Oh wait, so I am the 'mental cripple' that proved you to be a liar? So what would that make you?

[HairOnFire]

Don't you have some facts and statistics to make up?

Well, if you insist.

Stat! Sportees uses his mouth 87% of the time when busting balls.

Fact! Sportees is so stupid he cannot masturbate using his left hand without bruising himself.

Stat! Even when standing in an empty room Sportees finds himself outnumbered 67% of the times.

Fact! Right now Sportees is wishing he had kept his stupid mouth closed.

Fact! Billy is still bored.

Stat! Almost 100% of posters polled said they learned to deeply regret picking an unprovoked fight with HairOnFire.

[Spor_tees]

Don't you have some facts and statistics to make up?

Well, if you insist.

Stat! Sportees uses his mouth 87% of the time when busting balls.

Fact! Sportees is so stupid he cannot masturbate using his left hand without bruising himself.

Stat! Even when standing in an empty room Sportees finds himself outnumbered 67% of the times.

Fact! Right now Sportees is wishing he had kept his stupid mouth closed.

Fact! Billy is still bored.

Stat! Almost 100% of posters polled said they learned to deeply regret picking an unprovoked fight with HairOnFire.

Good try...

Maybe you should go back to making imaginary stats about football, or Bobbie Williams, then you might get back in the groove. That's just it, I don't remember anyone here crowning you king of the Bengalszone forums. Everyone has a right to their opinion whether you like it or not. Some might not voice their opinion as often and loudly as I do, because they may fear 'your wrath,' but you are nothing but words on a screen and I could careless. I'll continue to voice my opinion on topics and unless you pay an Admin or someone to ban me even though I'm not breaking any rules, I'll still be here. I have been banned from a forum before and if it ever happens again I'll find somewhere else to go. So you wonder why I was banned from the last board? It was because I continued to call out how awful Chris Perry was and the owner of the board and the mods thought Chris Perry was the savior. Oh well who was right on that one?

[HoosierCat]

I think I am "coattails", which I might make my new name.

Now that brings back memories. Mid-Nineties, old aol football boards, me taking my cue from a bunch of dopey Browns fans and posting as Hair's "YesMan" in the Great Rooting For Laundry debates. Good times.

[HairOnFire]

So go ahead and call me what you want, try to defame me as much as you can, it will not take away that you damaged your credibility as a poster by making up facts to win a discussion.

Damaged my credibility?

I claimed PFF had ranked Bobbie Williams within the Top5 OG's each of the last three or four years, including one season where he was ranked 1st overall. You now claim I'm a liar because your search showed Williams was actually ranked 6th last year.

Frankly, I think my credibility can withstand a hit like that.

Meanwhile, your own search for enlightenment found that Williams was 6th ranked, at worst, conveniently makes a mockery of your own criticism of Williams, a player you recently said needed to be replaced due to poor play. So how stupid does all of that make you? Or if you prefer, what does that kind of mind numbing stupidity do to your credibility?

Oh wait. You've never actually had any credibility to be damaged, have you?

[Spor_tees]

Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:24 PM

View PostBallBreaker, on 27 October 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

The thing is you pointed out my mistake, but all it does is strengthen my argument.

If I used sigs in my posts I might pick the above, mostly because of the way it perfectly captures the mindset of the typical messageboard warrior.

View PostBallBreaker, on 27 October 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

If the Bengals consistently run left behind Whitworth than doesn't that re-iterate their lack of trust in Smith's abilities?

Perhaps. Or it might reflect the Bengals reluctance to run to the right due to the prolonged absence of Bobby Williams and the prolonged presence of Jermain Gresham.

View PostBallBreaker, on 27 October 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

I know you will use the stability at RG as a crutch for your defense, but as many have pointed out here, LG is not much better and in fact many believe it is the #1 position of need in the up coming draft.

Well, I now know that pointing out your mistakes only serves to strengthen your arguments, but have you considered the fact that ORG Bobbie Williams was the NFL's #1 rated OG in 2010 and hasn't ranked lower than 3rd in position rankings over the last 5 years?

Oh man you must be a politician, covering up lies by telling more lies. Next time you are going to say that you meant he was in the top 10 the last 2 years....or was that he was top 15 last year? Damn it was one of those...

[BengalszoneBilly]

Don't you have some facts and statistics to make up?

Well, if you insist.

Stat! Sportees uses his mouth 87% of the time when busting balls.

Fact! Sportees is so stupid he cannot masturbate using his left hand without bruising himself.

Stat! Even when standing in an empty room Sportees finds himself outnumbered 67% of the times.

Fact! Right now Sportees is wishing he had kept his stupid mouth closed.

Fact! Billy is still bored.

Stat! Almost 100% of posters polled said they learned to deeply regret picking an unprovoked fight with HairOnFire.

Yes. Billy is still bored.

Yes. Billy would not get into an unending argument with anyone. I'm married and receive no enjoyment from them, much less from a guy who appears to be a former captain of his high school or college debating teams.

[Spor_tees]

The thing is you pointed out my mistake, but all it does is strengthen my argument.

If I used sigs in my posts I might pick the above, mostly because of the way it perfectly captures the mindset of the typical messageboard warrior.

If the Bengals consistently run left behind Whitworth than doesn't that re-iterate their lack of trust in Smith's abilities?

Perhaps. Or it might reflect the Bengals reluctance to run to the right due to the prolonged absence of Bobby Williams and the prolonged presence of Jermain Gresham.

I know you will use the stability at RG as a crutch for your defense, but as many have pointed out here, LG is not much better and in fact many believe it is the #1 position of need in the up coming draft.

Well, I now know that pointing out your mistakes only serves to strengthen your arguments, but have you considered the fact that ORG Bobbie Williams was the NFL's #1 rated OG in 2010 and hasn't ranked lower than 3rd in position rankings over the last 5 years?

Have you considered these statements untrue?

[HairOnFire]

That's just it, I don't remember anyone here crowning you king of the Bengalszone forums.

The king of Bengalzone? Who besides you even bothers to consider such things?

Some might not voice their opinion as often and loudly as I do, because they may fear 'your wrath,' but you are nothing but words on a screen and I could careless.

Your toughness is well established. Lord knows most of us couldn't stand being called an idiot on a near daily basis and endure as well as you have. You're an inspiration.

I'll continue to voice my opinion on topics and unless you pay an Admin or someone to ban me even though I'm not breaking any rules, I'll still be here.

You've got me all wrong. I don't want you banned. You're my plaything. And for whatever it might be worth I think I'm going to like our new relationship just fine.

I have been banned from a forum before and if it ever happens again I'll find somewhere else to go.

Guys like you always have somewhere else to go. What you alwways seem to lack is somewhere you're actually wanted.

So you wonder why I was banned from the last board?

Not really. Truth be told I couldn't care less.

It was because I continued to call out how awful Chris Perry was and the owner of the board and the mods thought Chris Perry was the savior. Oh well who was right on that one?

I'm guessing you weren't banned for being right. Rather, I'm guessing you were banned for being a dink that absolutely nobody liked.