Where was the West Coast Offense?

[Spor_tees]

Let me say first I am not complaining about the Bengals winning today. It wasn't perfect but they played through diversity and didn't fold when teams in the past would have.

The offense I saw on the field today was NOT the West Coast offense. I don't know if any of you guys were asking yourselves the same question, but I know I sure noticed it. Let's look at a few things that they would have done, had it been the West Coast offense:

Lots of three step drops and quick slants/outs- I saw Dalton or Gradkowski take very few 3 step drops, most were 5 step drops and set in the pocket. (I think this is why Dalton started to get hit more because he was thinking too much.) Quick slants and quick outs will give Dalton confidence, take the 'thinking' out of the play, and get the ball in the hands of the playmakers.

Screen passes- I think they threw one screen pass the whole game to Leonard. There was no WR screens to Green or any TE screens to Grisham. They need to get the ball in the hands of these guys and let them make something happen with their athleticism.

TE lining up in the backfield to get one on one coverage with a LB- Unlike last year, I didn't see the TE line up in the backfield one play. They need to let Grisham get matched up on a LB to make big plays.

Play action pass or Quick Draw play- I think they did maybe one play action pass the whole game and didn't see a quick draw play the whole game. These plays are essential to keeping the defense honest and not just pinning their ears back and pass rushing.

Pretty much of what we saw today was the offense from 2009. Lots of 32 Dives, lots of safe intermediate pass patterns, and no trick plays.

You guys might agree with me, you may not, but I think they do need to show more of the West Coast offense in order to help Dalton get acclimated to the NFL.

[volcom69]

I did see them do more then 1 play action, i think the TD might have been on play action, or the long pass to Gresham, but i know they did play action.

[Spor_tees]

I did see them do more then 1 play action, i think the TD might have been on play action, or the long pass to Gresham, but i know they did play action.

Ok so you can remember one maybe two? Think about when Brett Favre played for the Packers and ran the West Coast offense, how many times did they do it per game? Yeah quite a few more.

[HoosierCat]

Pretty much of what we saw today was the offense from 2009.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this what about 99.9% of this board was screaming for last year?

So the problem is...?

OK, yes, I understand, we didn't look like the 80s-era 49ers. But what did you expect? We've had 0 offseason and 5 weeks of camp & preseason. So go back to basics; at one point I even heard Collins check in as an extra lineman. Let's go unbalanced line, run like hell, make the easy throws and let guys try for YAC, etc.

I think the other stuff will come, but we'll be installing this O all year.

In the meantime, why not stick to what got us our last division crown?

[volcom69]

Yep Gruden didnt even get to install his whole playbook yet.

Maybe as the year goes on we will see more WCO, but in the first game i think he wanted a really heavy dose of the run, and thats what he did.

[Spor_tees]

Pretty much of what we saw today was the offense from 2009.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this what about 99.9% of this board was screaming for last year?

So the problem is...?

OK, yes, I understand, we didn't look like the 80s-era 49ers. But what did you expect? We've had 0 offseason and 5 weeks of camp & preseason. So go back to basics; at one point I even heard Collins check in as an extra lineman. Let's go unbalanced line, run like hell, make the easy throws and let guys try for YAC, etc.

I think the other stuff will come, but we'll be installing this O all year.

In the meantime, why not stick to what got us our last division crown?

The problem is, we have been hearing about how Gruden is a West Coast genius yadda yadda yadda and how it is the perfect system for Dalton to start in. What we got instead in the passing game was 5 step drops and long patterns where he had to do several check downs. I'm just saying I would like to see more of the West Coast passing game with 3 step drops, short routes, and a lot more screen plays. This kind of stuff isn't rocket science and could have easily been installed by now.

[derekshank]

Pretty much of what we saw today was the offense from 2009.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this what about 99.9% of this board was screaming for last year?

So the problem is...?

OK, yes, I understand, we didn't look like the 80s-era 49ers. But what did you expect? We've had 0 offseason and 5 weeks of camp & preseason. So go back to basics; at one point I even heard Collins check in as an extra lineman. Let's go unbalanced line, run like hell, make the easy throws and let guys try for YAC, etc.

I think the other stuff will come, but we'll be installing this O all year.

In the meantime, why not stick to what got us our last division crown?

The problem is, we have been hearing about how Gruden is a West Coast genius yadda yadda yadda and how it is the perfect system for Dalton to start in. What we got instead in the passing game was 5 step drops and long patterns where he had to do several check downs. I'm just saying I would like to see more of the West Coast passing game with 3 step drops, short routes, and a lot more screen plays. This kind of stuff isn't rocket science and could have easily been installed by now.

Meh. I like a tough running offense.

I was worried that Gruden would feel the need to have Shipley in the game regularly.

While I like Shipley a lot for what he is... I was happy to see him standing on the sidelines the majority of the game. Dalton played fine with the game Gruden called.

[HoosierCat]

The problem is, we have been hearing about how Gruden is a West Coast genius yadda yadda yadda and how it is the perfect system for Dalton to start in. What we got instead in the passing game was 5 step drops and long patterns where he had to do several check downs. I'm just saying I would like to see more of the West Coast passing game with 3 step drops, short routes, and a lot more screen plays. This kind of stuff isn't rocket science and could have easily been installed by now.

I hear ya. But it's not just Dalton. There are 10 other guys on the O and they all have to get in sync. And we just had to toss in a rookie OL because Bobbie got busted. The RBs and the OL have done this before, so it makes sense to focus on what they know and add the other stuff in in pieces.

I want to see more of the traditional WCO too. But I think it's a work in progress.

[Spor_tees]

So Derek is a Shipley hater....shame shame shame on you sir! No soup for you! The tough running offense is only going to work so long if you don't have a passing game threat.

Shipley only had the ball thrown his way maybe once and if I remember correctly it was thrown behind him and knocked out of his hands by the defender.

Grisham is a beast and they need to do like KC used to do with Gonzalez and how San Diego does with Gates, and try to use formations that get him matched one on one with a LB. Preferably on the outside to take the safeties out of it.

Honestly the largest problem I see with the offense is, they have TOO many weapons, whereas the national media would have you believe otherwise.

[cincy9275]

defenses can dictate how you call a game.

speaking of gruden he desreves some props.

one for seeing the brown were slow to line up and took advantage of it.

two the ced dagger. gruden blasted the left side all day. whe he did finally run to the right the whole d went left. benson ran untouched to seal it.

2 td's off seeing two situations he could take advantage of during a game. that's good coaching. something brat would have never though of. i liked it when marvin hired him and like him even more today.

[HoosierCat]

Honestly the largest problem I see with the offense is, they have TOO many weapons, whereas the national media would have you believe otherwise.

I would say they have too many young weapons. Remember, Ship and Gresham are sophomores. Green and Dalton are rooks. Simpson is a vet in name only.

Who are the vets they can lean on? Well, such as it is, it's Benson, Scott, Leonard, and the o-line minus Boling and Andre.

There is a lot of gelling to do, even before we start taking about schemes. That they won today is a minor miracle. Now they have a s**t load of work to do for Denver.

[Spor_tees]

Are you gel'n? I'm gel'n like a felon...oh wait that's a bad Bengal's joke.

[HoosierCat]

Are you gel'n? I'm gel'n like a felon...oh wait that's a bad Bengal's joke.

Nah. Every day I'm shufflin'.

[derekshank]

The tough running offense is only going to work so long if you don't have a passing game threat.

That seemed like the theory that went into the offensive change last season. We saw a bunch of 3 and 4 WR sets... mainly filled with guys like Shipley and Chad who can't or won't run block.

Nope. I'll pass on reliving that.

Like I said... I'm a Shipley fan. But he shouldn't be overused. He's a slot WR, and should be used primarily on passing downs. The passing game, though unspectacular, got the job done today. And it should continue to improve. Especially as we see more and more defenses trying to stop Benson by stacking the box.

[Spor_tees]

Combined passing for the Bengals was 15-27 (They kept throwing at Haden which made ZERO sense)

For 155 yards which was 5.7 yards per.

The Bengals did not play a pretty game by any stretch of the imagination on offense. They won because they didn't turn the ball over and committed very few penalties. I am glad as anyone they won, I am just saying there is a lot of room to improve and a lot of the things we were looking forward to seeing didn't happen. Can anyone say why Bernard Scott got only 4 carries? If this is going to be a run heavy offense Benson needs about 20 touches a game and Scott needs 10.

[derekshank]

The Bengals did not play a pretty game by any stretch of the imagination on offense. They won because they didn't turn the ball over and committed very few penalties.

You and I have a different definition of "pretty" because the 1st and 4th quarter were beautiful. Good defense. Ball control on offense. Running the ball more often than throwing it. 5 minute drives, running down the clock, shortening the game.

Maybe it's not sexy... but it works.

[Spor_tees]

The Bengals did not play a pretty game by any stretch of the imagination on offense. They won because they didn't turn the ball over and committed very few penalties.

You and I have a different definition of "pretty" because the 1st and 4th quarter were beautiful. Good defense. Ball control on offense. Running the ball more often than throwing it. 5 minute drives, running down the clock, shortening the game.

Maybe it's not sexy... but it works.

Actually the run to pass ratio was only 33 run to 27 pass. That's a 55-45 ratio.

Time of possession was actually pretty close too. Bengals:30:23 Browns:29:37

Now defense I thought did really well minus a few busted coverages. One of the TE catches, Reggie Nelson was actually picked in the middle of the field by another Brown's receiver but it wasn't called. I would have liked to see some better tackling, especially on McCoy, but that is something you are going to expect early in the season. I do hope to see more blitzing in the upcoming games against subpar QBs.

Honestly the Bengals played today like I used to play Madden back in the day. I would run and run until I needed a pass, then I would dink it the TE for a first down. Then when the defense is getting mesmerized by me 4-6 yard runs, I hit one over the top to a speedy receiver. If you can do this all day long, avoid turnovers and penalties, you win.

[derekshank]

Actually the run to pass ratio was only 33 run to 27 pass. That's a 55-45 ratio.

You are taking the game as a whole, when I specifically mentioned the 1st and 4th quarters (I have publicly mentioned my displeasure with tne 2nd and 3rd quarters. Cincy was too quick to get away from a run-first mindset... and took too long to get back to it).

Even still... the Bengals ran the ball more than they threw it. And that is not something most teams can say (the Browns threw the ball 40 times... more than 60% of their plays).

To my point, in the 1st quarter the Bengals ran the ball 11 times, threw the ball 7 times. Their TOP was 9:38 compared to the Browns 5:22. It doesn't make Sportcenter... but that is my definition of sexy.

[Wraith]

"Even still... the Bengals ran the ball more than they threw it. And that is not something most teams can say (the Browns threw the ball 40 times... more than 60% of their plays)."

And the Browns LOST! Loved the gameplan, with a rookie QB you should be running the ball, anything else is asking to a) lose and for him to lose confidence. Put the ball in Cedric's hands, let the oline blast away at the defense and tire them out. In case you haven't noticed the 4th Qtr is when most of these games are decided and having the defense tired is a big plus. From a passing game perspective, take what the defense gives you, don't press, don't force the ball downfield just to assuage your prima donna WR's ego. God Bless Jay Gruden for playing this conservative! God Bless Jay Gruden for playing to his team's strengths and not focing a game plan because he is a "West Coast Genius"!

BTW if you didn't notice yes as a team they were 15-27 but DALTON was 10-15 with 4 straight up drops by TE and WR in his first game that is flat out amazing, get well soon.

[skyline]

I never got the impression that Gruden was a true West Coast guy. I always felt like he was bringing "West Coast-like" qualities to the offense. More than anything, though, I get the feeling that Gruden is willing to adapt to the situation at hand, which is something Brat always seemed unable to do.

Regardless, I feel like Gruden's general plan going into the season was to rely on the running game and give Dalton pass plays that he can be successful with. I saw both of those elements yesterday. Any time I see a rookie QB completing over 60% of his passes with no interceptions, then I'm happy.

[Spor_tees]

A lot of you guys are missing the point. If you think you watched yesterday the perfect game you must have watched a different game than I did. Yes a win is a win, but not all wins are going to be given away like the Browns gave away the one yesterday. Did you hear the announcers during the game comment about how they were surprised in the difference in penalties, yards, and time of possession, yet the score was so close? There is always room for improvement, and yes I get the idea of this team being young and getting better each week, BUT there are fundamental things in the offense that need to be tweaked to help Dalton move the team more efficiently.

As said above, they need more screen plays, they need to have more formations and motion plays to isolate the TE on a linebacker, and more 3 step drop pass plays to help take the thinking out of Dalton's head so he can just make plays. This isn't a major change in offensive philosophy, its simply a tweak to the passing game. They can still be run heavy, I would say a 60/40 would be about right, but they need to try and make things more comfortable for Dalton until he is more acclimated to the NFL game.

[skyline]

As said above, they need more screen plays, they need to have more formations and motion plays to isolate the TE on a linebacker, and more 3 step drop pass plays to help take the thinking out of Dalton's head so he can just make plays. This isn't a major change in offensive philosophy, its simply a tweak to the passing game. They can still be run heavy, I would say a 60/40 would be about right, but they need to try and make things more comfortable for Dalton until he is more acclimated to the NFL game.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you'll see much more of those things against defenses like the Ravens the Steelers.

But again...10/15 suggests that they didn't ask Dalton to do more than he was capable of. He handled his duties well.

[gregstephens]

A lot of you guys are missing the point. If you think you watched yesterday the perfect game you must have watched a different game than I did. Yes a win is a win, but not all wins are going to be given away like the Browns gave away the one yesterday. Did you hear the announcers during the game comment about how they were surprised in the difference in penalties, yards, and time of possession, yet the score was so close? There is always room for improvement, and yes I get the idea of this team being young and getting better each week, BUT there are fundamental things in the offense that need to be tweaked to help Dalton move the team more efficiently.

As said above, they need more screen plays, they need to have more formations and motion plays to isolate the TE on a linebacker, and more 3 step drop pass plays to help take the thinking out of Dalton's head so he can just make plays. This isn't a major change in offensive philosophy, its simply a tweak to the passing game. They can still be run heavy, I would say a 60/40 would be about right, but they need to try and make things more comfortable for Dalton until he is more acclimated to the NFL game.

Nope, I suggest you are missing the point. Having to punt six or seven straight series as we did yesterday certainly indicates there is room to improve...however, the team I watched yesterday makes me believe they will do just that. Any Bengals team from 2006--2010, possibly excepting 2009--would have rolled over at 17-13 and not pulled that game out. Given the fact three rookies started on offense, one got knocked out and needed to be replaced by the backup, and the fact these guys have only been a team for about seven weeks, makes me feel darn good about the club. I was predicting a 13 point blowout by the Brownies.

And while you are corrrect that the offense needs to demonstrate more variety overall, unless you get 120 snaps a game, you aren't shoving everything you've asked for into one game. Besides, ultimately...they didn't need your bag of tricks. They won, remember?

[Spor_tees]

A lot of you guys are missing the point. If you think you watched yesterday the perfect game you must have watched a different game than I did. Yes a win is a win, but not all wins are going to be given away like the Browns gave away the one yesterday. Did you hear the announcers during the game comment about how they were surprised in the difference in penalties, yards, and time of possession, yet the score was so close? There is always room for improvement, and yes I get the idea of this team being young and getting better each week, BUT there are fundamental things in the offense that need to be tweaked to help Dalton move the team more efficiently.

As said above, they need more screen plays, they need to have more formations and motion plays to isolate the TE on a linebacker, and more 3 step drop pass plays to help take the thinking out of Dalton's head so he can just make plays. This isn't a major change in offensive philosophy, its simply a tweak to the passing game. They can still be run heavy, I would say a 60/40 would be about right, but they need to try and make things more comfortable for Dalton until he is more acclimated to the NFL game.

Nope, I suggest you are missing the point. Having to punt six or seven straight series as we did yesterday certainly indicates there is room to improve...however, the team I watched yesterday makes me believe they will do just that. Any Bengals team from 2006--2010, possibly excepting 2009--would have rolled over at 17-13 and not pulled that game out. Given the fact three rookies started on offense, one got knocked out and needed to be replaced by the backup, and the fact these guys have only been a team for about seven weeks, makes me feel darn good about the club. I was predicting a 13 point blowout by the Brownies.

And while you are corrrect that the offense needs to demonstrate more variety overall, unless you get 120 snaps a game, you aren't shoving everything you've asked for into one game. Besides, ultimately...they didn't need your bag of tricks. They won, remember?

I wouldn't call basic West Coast offense plays as 'A Bag of Tricks.' Now let's take your argument and break something down. For all the same reasons you used as to why we should be proud of the Bengals young team pulling out a win, consider the Browns situation as well. McCoy was starting on his first opening day in only his second year. The Browns started a rookie at right tackle who was soon replaced by waiver wire pickup. The Browns are also full of first and second year guys and had a new head coach, new offensive coordinator, and new defensive coordinator. So let's not just handicap the Bengals going into this game, about the only major thing the Browns had going for them, was they were playing at home. It certainly would not take 120 snaps a game to fit basic West Coast offense plays into the gameplan. Have you ever watched a Green Bay game? What about a Philadelphia Eagles game?

[gregstephens]

A lot of you guys are missing the point. If you think you watched yesterday the perfect game you must have watched a different game than I did. Yes a win is a win, but not all wins are going to be given away like the Browns gave away the one yesterday. Did you hear the announcers during the game comment about how they were surprised in the difference in penalties, yards, and time of possession, yet the score was so close? There is always room for improvement, and yes I get the idea of this team being young and getting better each week, BUT there are fundamental things in the offense that need to be tweaked to help Dalton move the team more efficiently.

As said above, they need more screen plays, they need to have more formations and motion plays to isolate the TE on a linebacker, and more 3 step drop pass plays to help take the thinking out of Dalton's head so he can just make plays. This isn't a major change in offensive philosophy, its simply a tweak to the passing game. They can still be run heavy, I would say a 60/40 would be about right, but they need to try and make things more comfortable for Dalton until he is more acclimated to the NFL game.

Nope, I suggest you are missing the point. Having to punt six or seven straight series as we did yesterday certainly indicates there is room to improve...however, the team I watched yesterday makes me believe they will do just that. Any Bengals team from 2006--2010, possibly excepting 2009--would have rolled over at 17-13 and not pulled that game out. Given the fact three rookies started on offense, one got knocked out and needed to be replaced by the backup, and the fact these guys have only been a team for about seven weeks, makes me feel darn good about the club. I was predicting a 13 point blowout by the Brownies.

And while you are corrrect that the offense needs to demonstrate more variety overall, unless you get 120 snaps a game, you aren't shoving everything you've asked for into one game. Besides, ultimately...they didn't need your bag of tricks. They won, remember?

I wouldn't call basic West Coast offense plays as 'A Bag of Tricks.' Now let's take your argument and break something down. For all the same reasons you used as to why we should be proud of the Bengals young team pulling out a win, consider the Browns situation as well. McCoy was starting on his first opening day in only his second year. The Browns started a rookie at right tackle who was soon replaced by waiver wire pickup. The Browns are also full of first and second year guys and had a new head coach, new offensive coordinator, and new defensive coordinator. So let's not just handicap the Bengals going into this game, about the only major thing the Browns had going for them, was they were playing at home. It certainly would not take 120 snaps a game to fit basic West Coast offense plays into the gameplan. Have you ever watched a Green Bay game? What about a Philadelphia Eagles game?

Dude, you've been a Bengals' fan for way too long. Just enjoy the moment...'cuz next week it could be gone.